Nostalgia Draft: The Final - TheReligion vs Isotope

[Physiocrat]

TheReligion

Isotope

TheReligion Tactics

Formation: 5-3-2 (fluid to 3-5-2) - High wing backs for width, high tempo, direct style, aggressive ball winning in central areas.

The irrepressible force of Isotope's attack might just meet its match here with our immovable object of a defence. It would be hard to better this unit in a 5-3-2 given the timeframe: Sammer's peak as a libero was simply legendary, Kohler and Cannavaro are both elite defenders as well as being three man defence specialists, and Makelele is infamous enough as a killer of attacks that a position has been named after him.

- Defensively you won't find a better functioning unit; Buffon and Cannavaro, Sammer and Kohler - proven high level partnerships of reliability and dominance. The set up itself has its strength in how fluid it is and the quality of its personnel allows it to flex in and out of possession a number of different ways; tailor-made for Ballon d'Or-winning colossus Sammer, who from his favoured libero role can push through into the 6 area with Makelele to help win the ball back or create an overload in attacking phases, with Kohler, Cannavaro and the imperious Buffon holding the fort behind him.

High positioned attacking fullbacks with powerful engines. Both capable of impacting the game in offensive and defensive phases; Lizarazu and Dani Alves provide the width. The system behind them allows them to both to play with more freedom going forward utilising their creativity and ability to create overloads and overlaps in wide areas. Both have the engines to get up and down the pitch quickly, both are good with and without the ball - ideal for the system and the best set of wing backs in the draft.

Makelele plays his favoured defensive screening role alongside all-action all-rounder Clarence Seedorf. A classic 6 and 8 pairing. This midfield will not be out worked or out battled, nor does it lack technical ability with Makelele offering underrated deep lying play making ability and Seedorf boasting a highly impressive technical skill set in addition to his substantial physical gifts.

Hagi is in his element as playmaker with complete freedom to drift. This brings the best out of him creatively and prevents him from becoming frustrated. Technically excellent, a mobile player who can isolate weaknesses and seek to exploit them. Capable of carrying the ball and dribbling past or picking incisive passes, this role simply lets Hagi express himself.

David Villa plays in partnership with Weah. They work in tandem and interchange between roles; one can drop deep, collect and carry whilst the other seeks that space to break the lines. The versatility of both players, in particular Villa, helps this work and creates huge problems for the opposition especially if they try and get close. The fluidity means CBs get pulled out of position and space appears which both have the awareness,and blistering pace, to exploit. Another well functioning partnership.


Key Notes;

* Three Ballon d'Or Winners in three key areas. Cannavaro, Sammer and Weah.

* Four World Cup Winners; Buffon, Cannavaro, Lizarazu, Villa.

* Proven key partnerships; Buffon/Cannavaro, Sammer/Kohler

* The teams strength is in how solid it is which gives the perfect foundation for the forwards to thrive.

* Top-notch build up from deeper areas through Sammer and the two of the best full backs in the draft.

* The fluidity of the system is key and has the right balance of flexibility all over the pitch.

* With threats from every channel to stretch the opposition, there's few better in the draft than Villa to exploit the gaps and supply the lethal cutting edge. He'll thrive off the sheer chaos and fear that Weah induced in defences at his peak, particularly with a creator of Hagi's sublime quality behind them.

Subs;

Rustu
Taffarel
Couto
De Boer
Marquez
Scholl
Gerrard (inj)
Bebeto
Trezeguet

Spoiler: Player Profiles

Player profiles and peaks;

Buffon - Regarded as the best goalkeeper of all time with over 1100 professional appearances at the highest level and 176 caps for Italy. World Cup winner and record 4 time winner of IFFHS world best goalkeeper Buffon displays superb agility, positioning, distribution and leadership. A true modern day keeper; Mr Consistent - Peak 03-06 (World Cup winner, FIFA 100 inductee, 12 time Serie A keeper of the year, 5 time UEFA team of the year, UEFA footballer of the year, IFFHS best keeper of the 21st century and decade)

Lizarazu - Bayern hall of fame inductee, energetic, reliable, defensively solid, mobile and with an excellent engine. Perfectly balanced full back going forward and defensively - Peak 98-01 (UEFA team of the year, FIFA World XI, Champions League winner, World Cup and Euro winner)

Cannavaro - One of his best attributes is mental strength, composure and consistency. Forget stupid mistakes and lapses in concentration, Fabio doesn't do them. When you add this mindset to his pace, power, ability to read the game, tackling and ball playing ability you really get a player with no weaknesses. His height? 5'9. Problem? Not when you have a leap like Michael Jordan and the timing and accuracy to go with it - Peak 03-06 - (Ballon d'Or winner, World player of the year, Two time FIFA World XI member, Team of the decade, World Cup winner.. I could go on)

Sammer - Not many defenders win the Ballon d'Or but Sammer was much more than a defender. His superb footballing brain, technical ability and natural fitness allowed him to do everything on the football pitch making him the best libro to grace the game and supremely comfortable in a number of defensive and offensive roles - Peak 94-97 (Ballon d'Or, 100 Greatest Player of All Time, European Championship Winner, Champions League Winner, 2 x German Player of the Year)

Kohler - Strong, powerful, excellent awareness and ariel ability. Highly regarded as one of the best stoppers of his generation and of all time. Hard in the tackle yet composed enough to recover the ball and play progressively with his feet - Peak 92-95 (World Cup Winner, European Championship Winner, Champions League Winner, Multiple domestic titles, German Footballer of the Year, European Championship Team of the Tournament)

Dani Alves - Best offensive full back of his generation, excellent mobility, passing and crossing ability, overlapping runs to give width, powerful engine, strong, tenacious with high energy and workrate - Peak 07-10 (Eight time FIFA world XI member, Five time UEFA team of the year, La Liga defender of the season, Three time Champions League winner, player with most collective honours ever)

Seedorf - Complete midfielder; pace, stamina, strength, technical ability and creativity. Equally good defensively and devastating going forward - box to box role - Peak 06-09 (Four time Champions League winner, two time UEFA team of the year, UEFA best midfielder award, FIFA 100 inductee)

Makelele - That good they named his holding role after him, great reader of the game and perfect shield for the defence. Underrated DLP ability with excellent short passing and tactical and positional discipline - ball winner - Peak 04-07 (FIFA World XI pick, Champions League winner)

Hagi - Showman, playmaker, creative genius and absolute character, quick, two footed and comfortable in any forward areas, his understanding of space and technical ability is unrivalled at his peak - number 10 - Peak 94-97 (FIFA WC All Star, FIFA 100 inductee, 4th place Ballon d'Or, FIFA World XI pick)

Weah - Strong, physical, quick, superb dribbler and excellent finisher, all round multi functional forward, Ballon d'Or winner, FIFA world player of the year, who Henry modelled his game on - Peak 94-97 (Ballon d'Or winner, FIFA 100 inductee)

Villa - Held as one of the greatest forwards of his generation and one the the best Spanish forwards of all time, a two footed prolific goalscorer with superb finishing, composure, agility, pace and dribbling abilities. Not only was Villa ruthless in front of goal he possessed excellent vision and passing ability. This, mixed with his football intelligence, allowed him to drop deep to receive the ball and link up play with the midfield. He was equally able to create for others as he was to score himself. - Peak 07-10 - (World Cup winner, European Championship winner, FIFA world XI member, CL winner, Spain's all time top scorer)

Isotope Tactics

TR has a cracking team but my Team flanks give us a great advantage. TR’s midfield is great but a specialist one and looks more suited to a 4-3-3. A solid but static #6, a dynamic #8 but not necessarily (enough as a sole) workhorse, and a lackadaisical #10.

Kohler & Cannavaro provide defensive cover but I don't see enough support from the midfield and the forward line for the flanks. Lizarazu & Alves were great but against my Team flanks, they could get overwhelmed without adequate support.

Kaka & Ronaldo look prime to hit those openings with TR’s defense being stretched by my Team’s flanks, and the explosiveness of Ronaldo and Kaka. Wherein my Team’s defense should be able to contain TR’s forward line.

On the other hand, my Team sturdy midfield should be able to keep tabs on Hagi and (occasional) Sammer's forays forward. Other than providing width, Figo and Donadoni are capable to come central providing creativity and game control. Both TR’s forwards aren't exactly known for their work rate to support midfield battle.

 

[Physiocrat]

@TheReligion @Isotope

Game on!

@Invictus @harms

Poll please

 

[Himannv]

How do you both see the game progressing?

@Isotope @TheReligion

 

[TheReligion]

TR has a cracking team but my Team flanks give us a great advantage.

Not convinced by this and see a clear weakness on the left flank with both Irwin and Donadoni preferring their right foot. No leftie means a tendancy to come inside and with Dani Alves bombing up and down and the two footed Hagi between the lines I see plenty of space to exploit.

TR’s midfield is great but a specialist one and looks more suited to a 4-3-3. A solid but static #6, a dynamic #8 but not necessarily (enough as a sole) workhorse, and a lackadaisical #10.

Makelele is arguably the best 6 on the pitch and had some very underrated DLP abilities. He's supported by the roaming Sammer allowing Seedorf to push on in his dynamic box to box function.

Appreciate Hagi comes with a reputation but he's in his favoured role here in a set up which simply allows him to create havoc.

Kohler & Cannavaro provide defensive cover but I don't see enough support from the midfield and the forward line for the flanks. Lizarazu & Alves were great but against my Team flanks, they could get overwhelmed without adequate support.

Again I see Lizarazu and Alves as a superior set compared to Irwin and Ferrera. For me it's not even close. Figo and Donadoni both prefer the right hand side and as good as they are have Cannavaro and Kohler to contend with (oh and Sammer and Gigi Buffon). I don't see this defensive unit being overwhelmed. Far from it.

Kaka & Ronaldo look prime to hit those openings with TR’s defense being stretched by my Team’s flanks, and the explosiveness of Ronaldo and Kaka. Wherein my Team’s defense should be able to contain TR’s forward line.

Ronaldo and Kaka are superb. Love both of these players. My defence and set up here literally doesn't get any better though, even when you add the likes of Makelele screening is ahead of Matthias Sammer. There's no one better equipped to take this pair on in my opinion. Did anyone mention Fabio Cannavaro by the way and Gigi Buffon?

On the other hand, my Team sturdy midfield should be able to keep tabs on Hagi and (occasional) Sammer's forays forward. Other than providing width, Figo and Donadoni are capable to come central providing creativity and game control. Both TR’s forwards aren't exactly known for their work rate to support midfield battle.

As mentioned with Donadoni wanting to come inside on his right foot there's plenty of space for David Villa and Dani Alves to exploit in turnovers. Also coming inside in my set up doesn't really create that much of an issue given my system is very strong centrally with Sammer stepping in to nick the ball, Makelele covering every blade of grass and the Ballon d'Or winning Cannavaro his imperious self. It doesn't get much better.

Few points from @Isotope opening post.

 

[TheReligion]

How do you both see the game progressing?

@Isotope @TheReligion

I see weaknesses on his left hand side as above with both Irwin and Donadoni preferring their right foot and in Donadoni's case the Figo spot. I feel my team is more balanced all over the pitch.

Let's be honest this battle is going to be about his wonderful forwards of Figo, Kaka and Ronaldo, against my first class defence. I don't think there's any defensive set up capable of keeping this lot quiet other than mine. Let's flip it round though. Can Rijkard-Ferdinand successfully keep out the absolute monster that was Ballon d'Or winner George Weah and someone who haunts Rio from the CL in David Villa? Weah was so good running with the ball and as destructive as R9. Villa would hang out in those areas where he couldn't be picked up or carry the ball himself and create opportunities. Who goes with him? In my opinion they pull them both apart and space opens up.

Hagi, Seedorf, Sammer and my full backs all offer plenty in forward areas too (shots from range especially which may be very important in deciding a close game).

Another deciding factor could be the keepers. Buffon v Ravellli. I know who I'm backing.

 

[Isotope]

How do you both see the game progressing?

@Isotope @TheReligion

Sorry for the late reply. Monday isn't the best time for me for game. But it's been a long Draft.

Anyway. I'm expecting my team to take initiative and TR's would be on defensive. With Figo and Donadoni, they both are creative wide midfielders that can come infield, and so does Kaka to control the midfield/game. Bastian will be the metronome, and Vieira as the controller (as he did with Arsenal).

I will try to use my wingers and fullbacks to overwhelmed TR's fullbacks. Thus it will stretch their defence to cover their fullback side.
With their fullbacks are pinned down, TR's team lack the ability to attack from the flanks, and their attack becomes predictable.

Other advantage of my Team, is the ability to turn defence into attack.
TR defence and midfield lack a passer to turn defence into attack. Both centerbacks are stoppers type, none is ball playing. Sammer and Seedorf are good passers, but if memory serves right, none is this consistent/excellent long ball passer but more of transition.

My Team has two good passers centerback in Rio and Rijkaard, where Vieira is a proven excellent long ball passer. Many of Henry's goal came from Vieira's long ball to him. And Vieira forward surging run is also something to behold.

 

[Physiocrat]

@TheReligion

In the organised defensive phase what does Hagi do? Does he drop into midfield making it a flat three in front of the back 5 leaving the front two up for the counter?

 

[TheReligion]

@TheReligion

In the organised defensive phase what does Hagi do? Does he drop into midfield making it a flat three in front of the back 5 leaving the front two up for the counter?

Not so much flat three but he sits sightly to the head of the three. He needs to be deep enough to receive the ball and play off the likes of Seedorf/Sammer as an outlet during turn overs

The explosive pace of both Weah and Villa, along with how they can work in tandem with one dropping and the other going, ensure attack and defence remains coherent as opposed to becoming isolated.

 

[TheReligion]

Sorry for the late reply. Monday isn't the best time for me for game. But it's been a long Draft.

Anyway. I'm expecting my team to take initiative and TR's would be on defensive. With Figo and Donadoni, they both are creative wide midfielders that can come infield, and so does Kaka to control the midfield/game. Bastian will be the metronome, and Vieira as the controller (as he did with Arsenal).

I will try to use my wingers and fullbacks to overwhelmed TR's fullbacks. Thus it will stretch their defence to cover their fullback side.
With their fullbacks are pinned down, TR's team lack the ability to attack from the flanks, and their attack becomes predictable.

Other advantage of my Team, is the ability to turn defence into attack.
TR defence and midfield lack a passer to turn defence into attack. Both centerbacks are stoppers type, none is ball playing. Sammer and Seedorf are good passers, but if memory serves right, none is this consistent/excellent long ball passer but more of transition.

My Team has two good passers centerback in Rio and Rijkaard, where Vieira is a proven excellent long ball passer. Many of Henry's goal came from Vieira's long ball to him. And Vieira forward surging run is also something to behold.

I'm surprised my full backs are being targeted here as they are the strongest pair in the draft. As mentioned earlier Donadoni and Irwin looks very unbalanced to me, two right footers playing on the left. If anything I feel as though I have the advantage in the wide areas.

Think Lizarazu and Dani Alves are being given a huge disservice, even more so the Alves/Villa partnership on the right.

My team is full of these little proven partnerships and link ups. Cannavaro/ Buffon, Sammer/Kohler, Villa/Alves etc.

In addition the passing ability of Seedorf, Sammer and Makelele is being underrated with the mercurial brilliance of Hagi overlooked. Seedorf, Sammer and Hagi also offer much more of a goal threat than what lines up opposite them in the central areas.

 

[TheReligion]

Also Cannavaro was very comfortable with the ball. Kohler was slightly weaker in this area but still more than just a "stopper". Again they are being downplayed significantly in terms of distribution and technical ability.

 

[TheReligion]

I think this is a clear game of fine margins but when it comes down to match winners I feel I have far more coverage across the pitch.

@Isotope how do you propose to stop R9 becoming isolated and how close will Kaka be playing to him?

 

[harms]

1. Religion's defense looks incredible, brilliant individuals that also fit the formation requirements perfectly.
2. Ferrara is not going to be overburdened with defending his flank, so he would get an opportunity to come centrally & help Rio and Rijkaard out, which is a plus.
3. Figo's, Donadoni's and Irwin's crossing isn't going to amount to much with Luis Ronaldo & Kaka up front (and a monstrous defensive line with Kohler, Sammer, Cannavaro and Buffon).
4. Gianluigi Buffon & Thomas Ravelli.

I'm edging towards TheReligion which is probably obvious by my notes, but I'd still think about it. Isotope's midfield is a bit better and then there's obviously Fenômeno who can turn every game on its head.

 

[TheReligion]

I appreciate the talk will be of R9 but let's not forget this absolute monster..


And his partner who strikes fear into the heart of Rio and dovetails beautifully with Dani Alves..

 

[Physiocrat]

Not so much flat three but he sits sightly to the head of the three. He needs to be deep enough to receive the ball and play off the likes of Seedorf/Sammer as an outlet during turn overs

The explosive pace of both Weah and Villa, along with how they can work in tandem with one dropping and the other going, ensure attack and defence remains coherent as opposed to becoming isolated.

If that's the case it seems that Iso will easily get to your wingbacks since the midfield three are quite narrow so switching play should easily allow to advance onto the wing-back. Not necessarily a weakness in that you are poised to attack well on the counter and crosses won't be much of a threat. Maybe getting beyond the wing-back and putting in a low cross might work though.

Just trying to understand how you intend to defend

 

[Isotope]

1. Religion's defense looks incredible, brilliant individuals that also fit the formation requirements perfectly.
2. Ferrara is not going to be overburdened with defending his flank, so he would get an opportunity to come centrally & help Rio and Rijkaard out, which is a plus.
3. Figo's, Donadoni's and Irwin's crossing isn't going to amount to much with Luis Ronaldo & Kaka up front (and a monstrous defensive line with Kohler, Sammer, Cannavaro and Buffon).
4. Gianluigi Buffon & Thomas Ravelli.

I'm edging towards TheReligion which is probably obvious by my notes, but I'd still think about it. Isotope's midfield is a bit better and then there's obviously Fenômeno who can turn every game on its head.

Agreed that TR’ has excellent team with monstrous defence.

I just think that my midfield and defence can contain their attack. So it is left of whether his can contain mine. It's like yours against mine. I would be obviously on the back foot, most likely. But the difference with TR's, his attack is not enough to trouble mine, nor he has player who's able to provide counter attacks constantly. If I recall correctly, that's not Sammer nor Seedorf strength.

Attack of Ronaldo, Kaka, and Figo can give individual brilliants. All dynamic and excellent dribblers, thus can create their own chances. I don’t see his midfield can provide enough protection. And they also don’t have players who can constantly turn defence into attack.

 

[Isotope]

Sorry i’m on the road, @TheReligion. Can’t engage much on your questions.

 

[Isotope]

I'm surprised my full backs are being targeted here as they are the strongest pair in the draft. As mentioned earlier Donadoni and Irwin looks very unbalanced to me, two right footers playing on the left. If anything I feel as though I have the advantage in the wide areas.

Think Lizarazu and Dani Alves are being given a huge disservice, even more so the Alves/Villa partnership on the right.

My team is full of these little proven partnerships and link ups. Cannavaro/ Buffon, Sammer/Kohler, Villa/Alves etc.

In addition the passing ability of Seedorf, Sammer and Makelele is being underrated with the mercurial brilliance of Hagi overlooked. Seedorf, Sammer and Hagi also offer much more of a goal threat than what lines up opposite them in the central areas.

When I said targeting fullbacks, it wasn't mean Lizarazu and Alves aren't excellent fullbacks. Either as one on one, or crowding them with winger and fullback, not many fullbacks can contain Figo or Donadoni by themselves.

Irwin is as two-footed as you can find. He might prefer (to shoot) with his left, but his crossing is good with both. Donadoni might prefer right foot to cross, but he it doesn't limit his crossing ability. And his dribbling skill is very good also, to not just rely on crossing.

 

[TheReligion]

RE Kaka.

Absolutely fantastic player in his peak no doubt but this team shackles him quite easily in my opinion which in turn isolates Ronaldo who is up against some of the very best defenders, and goalkeeper, to play the game.

Kaka thrived on space to surge into but was kept quiet by Didi Hamman (introduced 2nd half Istanbul) and Javier Mascherano (before he was hauled off in the return fixture as Liverpool chased the game) Essentially a top holding player, and consider I have the very best in the business in Claude Makelele, can smother him and cut off not only his supply but his ability to utilise space.

That still leaves Cannavaro, Sammer and Kohler to mop up and the immovable Buffon between the sticks in central areas.

RE Figo

Again another brilliant player but coming in off the right he's up against the superb Lizarazu who was one of the most perfectly balanced full-backs of all time. Excellent anticipation, reactions timing and tenacious in the tackle. His small stature gave him a low centre of gravity which made it difficult for players like Figo (whom travel with the ball) to beat him. Infact the pair had many battles over the years with Lizarazu impeccable. If there was a full back capable and ideally suited to dealing with Luis Figo it was Bixente Lizarazu.

 

[TheReligion]

Before i sign off I'm still not seeing anything convincing that suggests Ravelli and that defensive unit are capable of keeping a clean sheet.

Dani Alves is one of the best offensive full backs to play the game and forms a lovely link up going forward with David Villa in the right channel. The talk here is of Donadoni and Irwin pegging them back. Really? I mean I don't see it. I also see Donadoni drifting inside on his favoured right foot and leaving plenty of space fully exposing Irwin on the flank.

You then have George Weah. I'm not sure who is being tasked to look after him but we all know he is frighteningly direct and equally as unstoppable as R9 in full flow. What's the plan to nullify him? Figo is playing high up the pitch and can't see how he contributes defensively leaving Ferrera and Rio trying to chase his tail.

Finally Gheorge Hagi. The little maestro. I think he's hugely being overlooked here given I see nothing in place from @Isotope to deal with him in his preferred role causing havoc behind the front two. He do everything on either foot and technically unplayable at his peak..

 

[TheReligion]

Hagi


And because I think this guy isn't getting the recognition he deserves a little snip as to what Seedorf brings to the table for those who aren't sure..


Ravelli isn't stopping any of these rockets.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I see Iso able to get more possession. Don't really like Makelele in that role.

 

[Isotope]

I see Iso able to get more possession. Don't really like Makelele in that role.

Thanks for the compliment, Edgar.

One of the key to my midfield is Patrick Vieira. The man was the captain and heart of that great Arsenal's. It wasn't a lip-service that he was compared to the great Keano at that time. When ask about Vieira, Keano said that "he's very, very, very tough". And just like Roy Keane himself, both were not just tough, but also leaders and skilful passers.

 

[harms]

I just think that my midfield and defence can contain their attack. So it is left of whether his can contain mine. It's like yours against mine

I wouldn't use this argument on me

 

[Isotope]

I wouldn't use this argument on me

Come to think about that. Have to say the win was a lucky escape.

What I meant was, against yours, mine was on the defensive side. If my defence can contain yours, I had players to turn defence into attack, and players in attack to hurt your defence.
With TR, it is slightly in favor of his defence to contain mine, but i don't think his attack can take advantage of this. I was surprised that TR didn't have Shevchenko as final pick to partner Villa. Then the question become how long his "containing" could last. Of course it could last for 90+ minutes. But if mine score first, the game would be open up to my favor.

Of course all of this is just scenario in my head.

 

[TheReligion]

I've got this far without mentioning Ballon d'Or winning Matthias Sammer. Playing in his favoured libero role in a system made for his phenomenal strengths along side partner in crime Jürgen Kohler.


PS how many defenders in history have won the Ballon d'Or? Three.

How many fit this draft? Two.

Who are they? Matthias Sammer and Fabio Cannavaro.

Hint - Check my defence out.

I see Iso able to get more possession. Don't really like Makelele in that role.

In his number 6 role? The one that they named after him? I don't follow.

 

[TheReligion]

Close games, in particular finals, are often decided in battles all over the pitch and whilst it can be a simplistic view I think it's worth considering the following;

* Buffon is by far the superior goalkeeper to Ravelli. He's a match winner and capable of moments that turn games.

* Defensive partnerships - Buffon/Cannavaro and Sammer/Kohler. They don't get any better than this for balance and features two of the only Ballon d'Or winning defenders in history.

* The best number 6 to play the game? Arguably yes. They did name the position 'The Makelele' after all. Kaka simply can't operate here.

* Full backs - Lizarazu is exactly who you want to deal with Figo. Tried and tested as detailed above. Dani Alves was a monster going forward and is one of the most decorated players of all times. He links up in another proven partnership with David Villa here.

* Forwards - The balance of Ballon d'Or winner George Weah and the diminutive David Villa. There's not a better front two in the draft that compliment one another in terms of how they operate together and the variety they bring.

In a combined team I don't see how anyone leaves out Buffon, Lizarazu, Cannavaro, Sammer, Dani Alves, Makelele or Weah. That's 7 of 11. The others you could argue about but I don't see a significant drop in quality with Kohler, Seedorf, Hagi and Villa.

 

[Isotope]

Interesting read on how people see Seedorf as pure B2B here, by the Caf resident:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/whe...-top-midfielders-in-the-last-30-years.459768/

Then here's the coup of post:

Would echo this opinion, if we make the Top 20 bit more flexible. Very good player but not close to the top, especially if we use a broad term like ‟midfielders”. Even if we reduce the time-frame to 1995—2020 so that the likes of Matthäus, Rijkaard and co. are non-factors, there are quite a few that would rank ahead of him (doubly so if there's an emphasis on distilled performance rather than vague sense of achievement/longevity)...

• Offensive midfielders: Zidane, Laudrup, Ronaldinho, Kaká, Nedvěd
• Box-to-box midfielders: Keane, Davids, Schweinsteiger, Vieira
• Intermediate playmakers: Iniesta, Modrić
• Central or deep playmakers: Xavi, Redondo, Scholes, Pirlo
• Defensive midfielders: Busquets, Makelélé

Those 17 are unarguably ahead of him, IMO — as they were incredibly good at what they did whereas Seedorf was more jack-of-all-trades and often tended to drift in and out of games (especially with Milan where he was indulged as an offensive midfielder). And that's without even classing the likes of Figo or Beckham in a wide midfielder section. Though he should be close to the head of the queue for the best of the rest — which is not a slight because the initial list didn't include Deco, Lampard, Alonso, Ballack, Gerrard, Kanté, Rui Costa, Vidal, Kroos, De Bruyne and other fantastic performers.

Was on the Milan forum in the 00s and he would get so much stick from the fans. They'd complain he only turned up for English audiences and was shit in the league

If I'm correct that Milan side actually didn't perform that well domestically in the late 2000s. They turned up in the CL though.

 

[TheReligion]

When I said targeting fullbacks, it wasn't mean Lizarazu and Alves aren't excellent fullbacks. Either as one on one, or crowding them with winger and fullback, not many fullbacks can contain Figo or Donadoni by themselves.

Irwin is as two-footed as you can find. He might prefer (to shoot) with his left, but his crossing is good with both. Donadoni might prefer right foot to cross, but he it doesn't limit his crossing ability. And his dribbling skill is very good also, to not just rely on crossing.

Lizarazu is, and has, contained Figo. He's the perfect match up for him infact.

Dani Alves was better going forward than he was defensively, but he will force Donadoni to get back and weaken his influence on the game.

I don't see much joy against my defence by crossing the ball either. Cannavaro, Sammer and Kohler aren't losing an air battle in my opinion.

 

[TheReligion]

@Isotope seemingly could have got away with not bothering to play a goalkeeper in this draft in the opinions of some (arguably with a defence like mine he could have skimped in this area but that's not the case).

The gulf in class between my defensive unit and his is monumental when you delve into it. Much more so than what R9 and co bring at the other end.

Also Viera and Bastian are mentioned above as two B2B players. Is no one playing 6 and taking the DM holding role here? Very bold if so and leaves the CB pair totally exposed against a front two with Hagi in the hole.

 

[Isotope]

Lizarazu is, and has, contained Figo. He's the perfect match up for him infact.

Dani Alves was better going forward than he was defensively, but he will force Donadoni to get back and weaken his influence on the game.

I don't see much joy against my defence by crossing the ball either. Cannavaro, Sammer and Kohler aren't losing an air battle in my opinion.

- There's no way you will leave your Fb one-on-one dealing with opponent winger all the time. Or the Fb can prevent most crossings from great wingers. The crossings don't have to be high ball. The "cross" could be low passes to center of the box, or incoming attackers. And as Xavi's cross to Messi in CL Final proof, a good cross can take out even the best headers out there.

- Donadoni will have Irwin helping him. And I take my chances on Donadoni + Irwin to better Alves.

 

[Isotope]

@Isotope seemingly could have got away with not bothering to play a goalkeeper in this draft in the opinions of some (arguably with a defence like mine he could have skimped in this area but that's not the case).

The gulf in class between my defensive unit and his is monumental when you delve into it. Much more so than what R9 and co bring at the other end.

Also Viera and Bastian are mentioned above as two B2B players. Is no one playing 6 and taking the DM holding role here? Very bold if so and leaves the CB pair totally exposed against a front two with Hagi in the hole.

The gulf in defence is monumental, because you have 5 players there, and sacrifice midfield control. You move Sammer to midfield, that defence doesn't look that much more than mine. If you move Sammer out from defence, my defense + attack is certainly better than your defence + attack. Not to mention my midfield is more dynamic.

But then, you'd disagreed, and there's no way to prove this to worth arguing back and forth, man.

 

[TheReligion]

- There's no way you will leave your Fb one-on-one dealing with opponent winger all the time. Or the Fb can prevent most crossings from great wingers. The crossings don't have to be high ball. The "cross" could be low passes to center of the box, or incoming attackers. And as Xavi's cross to Messi in CL Final, a good cross can take out even the best headers out there.

- Donadoni will have Irwin helping him. And I take my chances on Donadoni + Irwin to better Alves.

I just think, and history will support this, that Lizarazu is a good match up for Figo.

With the other point that leaves David Villa. The further wide left Donadoni is pushed the more uncomfortable he becomes playing off his weaker foot. Definite gaps in those channels to exploit and that's not even mentioning the roaming Hagi.

 

[Himannv]

I think Donadoni does fine on either flank but both the LW and LB being right footers is an interesting point. That does make them slightly more predictable.

I think the gulf in quality of the goalkeepers is the biggest difference between the sides though.

@TheReligion do you expect more of the ball or less of it? How will your team operate without the ball?

 

[TheReligion]

I back my defence to keep Team Iso quiet but not sure I'd expect Ravelli, Irwin, Rjkaard (better DM than CB?), Rio (already haunted by Villa and Alves) and Ferrera to silence my forwards for 90 minutes..

Not sure Weah, Villa and Hagi are getting a fair shake with people getting understandable sucked in by Ronaldo, Kaka and Figo despite my explanation as to why they can be contained.

 

[TheReligion]

The gulf in defence is monumental, because you have 5 players there, and sacrifice midfield control. You move Sammer to midfield, that defence doesn't look that much more than mine. If you move Sammer out from defence, my defense + attack is certainly better than your defence + attack. Not to mention my midfield is more dynamic.

But then, you'd disagreed, and there's no way to prove this to worth arguing back and forth, man.

It's all good my man. Frustrating that there's loads of people dropping votes here but unwilling/unable to offer any explanation as to why. Guess that's part of the draft games though that I remember frustrated me so much.

 

[Isotope]

I just think, and history will support this, that Lizarazu is a good match up for Figo.

With the other point that leaves David Villa. The further wide left Donadoni is pushed the more uncomfortable he becomes playing off his weaker foot. Definite gaps in those channels to exploit and that's not even mentioning the roaming Hagi.

My football knowledge is limited, mate. I can't recall Lizarazu containing Figo by himself.

I also have limited knowledge on Villa as striker with Valencia. I still remember him as LF with Barca, though, which was not that great. Also remembered him in Euro with Torres upfront. But then he played off Torres, and can't recall how good he was.

There's a thread here on Caf about Top 30 strikers. You can see that I don't have Villa on my list.

 

[harms]

The best number 6 to play the game? Arguably yes.

Inarguably no.

 

[Gio]

Both defences look like they'd be on top here for me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

In his number 6 role? The one that they named after him? I don't follow.

In a back 5, I meant.

 

[Physiocrat]

This is really close. Buffon could sway it but I don't know. I would agree with the assessment of Seedorf and Makelele it just doesn't meld well for me. Having a diamond with Sammer as a B2B and the Crab in front of the back 4 would make a smoother transition forward for the Religion.

I agree with harms assessment last game that Iso would be better off putting another midfielder in there instead of Donadoni and going three up front to give Ronaldo more to work with. On his own in such as system is not ideal for his sort of striker.