Not quite current, but it does raise questions

[UnitedRoadRed]

Do you remember February 1993 in England , when a
Young boy of 3 was taken from a Liverpool shopping
Centre by two 10-year-old boys?
Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only
A second, Jon Venables took his hand and led him out
Of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson. They took
Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles, along the
Way stopping every now and again to
Torture the poor little boy who was crying
Constantly for his mummy.

Finally they stopped at a railway track where they
Brutally kicked him, threw stones at him, rubbed paint
In his eyes, pushed batteries up his anus and cut his
Fingers off with scissors. Other mutilations were
Inflicted but not reported in the press.

N.B. :- Remember, a 3year old cannot possibly
Defend themselves against a 10 year old, let alone of 2 them.

What these two boys did was so horrendous that
Jamie's mother was forbidden to identify his body.
They then left his beaten small body on railway
Tracks so a train could run him over to hide the mess
They had created. These two boys, even being boys,
Understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to
Make it look like an accident.

Lady Justice Butler-Sloss has awarded
The two boys ( now men ), anonymity for the rest of
Their lives when they leave custody with new
Identities. They will also leave custody early only
Serving just over half of their sentence.
They are being relocated to Australia to live out
The rest of their lives. They disgustingly and
Violently took Jamie's life away and in return they
Each get a new life!

 

[utdalltheway]

it bothers me to even think too much about it tbh.
more convicts down to Australia then? surprised they'll take them in.

If I'm Jamie's relatives I'm off down to Oz to find the feckers. I wouldn't rest until I found both of them and made them suffer.

 

[dumbo]

Sorry what is this? a poem, a debate, article from somewhere, your own view? It's actually innacurate to begin with.

Why are you using artistic license on one of the most horrific events in living memory?

 

[utdalltheway]

Dumbo, in all fairness, what's your point?

the way it's been posted it looks a bit weird but the content is ok, right?

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

It was forwarded to me as an email - it raises similar questions to the Sheffield rape case but with the victim known and dead in this case, what right do they have to anonymity is the point.

 

[lynchie]

There's another thread on this somewhere else.

 

[Frosty]

I have received the same thing as an e-mail repeatedly. There is a worldwide injunction against anyone disclosing Venables and Thompson's details, so I doubt the point about Australia is accurate.

I'll never understand how monsters like those 2 can ever walk the streets again. The system is fecked up.

As was pointed out by Wibble I think, if we cannot rehabilitate two ten year olds, we have no hope with anyone else.

 

[EZee]

It was forwarded to me as an email - it raises similar questions to the Sheffield rape case but with the victim known and dead in this case, what right do they have to anonymity is the point.

do you remember when the notw decided to publish address of peadophiles...

well a pediatritian was burned to death because they happened to live in the same street because some people are fecking idiots...

thats why we have anonymity

 

[rufus diabolus]

I remember them beating and throwing rocks and paint at him but I think the part about them cutting his fingers off, shoving batteries up his anus and 'other mutilations' is bollocks, and weren't these lads released years ago?

 

[Frosty]

do you remember when the notw decided to publish address of peadophiles...

well a pediatritian was burned to death because they happened to live in the same street because some people are fecking idiots...

thats why we have anonymity

No, no-one died. A paediatrician's house had bricks thrown through its windows and an offensive message was spray-painted on the door but no-one was hurt. That story, much like the Bulger killing, has developed some apocryphal elements.

 

[MrMarcello]

How do ten year olds conjure up these atrocities?

Just read the wiki page on this... terrible stuff. I don't agree the two boys should have their identities protected. They murdered a young boy and should have their identities available to the public as a sex offender would. If I were a criminal and committed a high-profile crime of this nature you can bet your ass my attorney would have a field day looking for similar protection. How do you say yes to one case and no to many others?

 

[MrMarcello]

I have received the same thing as an e-mail repeatedly. There is a worldwide injunction against anyone disclosing Venables and Thompson's details, so I doubt the point about Australia is accurate.

From wiki...
In June 2006, a widely circulated e-mail claimed Dante Arthurs, accused of murdering a child in Perth, Western Australia, was one of James Bulger's killers under a new identity. Again, this was untrue.[9][10] This claim has also been denied by authorities - they would have been unlikely to have been granted visas to live in Australia.

 

[lynchie]

How do ten year olds conjure up these atrocities?

Just read the wiki page on this... terrible stuff. I don't agree the two boys should have their identities protected. They murdered a young boy and should have their identities available to the public as a sex offender would. If I were a criminal and committed a high-profile crime of this nature you can bet your ass my attorney would have a field day looking for similar protection. How do you say yes to one case and no to many others?

Err... because they were 10. There's a difference between you and a 10-year-old.

 

[utdalltheway]

From wiki...
In June 2006, a widely circulated e-mail claimed Dante Arthurs, accused of murdering a child in Perth, Western Australia, was one of James Bulger's killers under a new identity. Again, this was untrue.[9][10] This claim has also been denied by authorities - they would have been unlikely to have been granted visas to live in Australia.

that's what I was thinking.
who the hell knows where they are. fcukers!

 

[Ixion]

As was pointed out by Wibble I think, if we cannot rehabilitate two ten year olds, we have no hope with anyone else.

What they did can never be undone, they don't deserve rehabilitation. They should have been locked up and the key thrown away, feck trying to help them.

 

[Rood]

What they did can never be undone, they don't deserve rehabilitation. They should have been locked up and the key thrown away, feck trying to help them.

Well in that case what is the point in locking them up? Might as well just kill them both instead and if you are going to start handing out the death penalty to 10 year kids then God help us all ...

I have also just read the wiki page - interesting stuff about their backgrounds, does seem to explain a lot. The usual themes of broken homes, alcoholic parents and child abuse are mentioned.
and the stuff about batteries and cutting off fingers is all lies apparently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger

 

[nickm]

I believe in rehabilitation so accept that some evil feckers might need to have the identities protected to give that a chance to work.

If you can't extend rehabilitation to a 10 year old, then you might as well just shoot everyone, and such a vengeful, ugly and cruel country is not somewhere I would want to live.

 

[Handjob Bob]

Anyone seen Boy A? Not to dissimilar story to the Bulger sitiuation - a real eye opener.

 

[surf]

As was pointed out by Wibble I think, if we cannot rehabilitate two ten year olds, we have no hope with anyone else.

I'd disagree. You can't generalise based on chronological age and say that they are better prospects for rehabilitation than their elders, which is what you seem to be suggesting here. Whether they are capable of turning over a new leaf depends on a lot of factors, including their particular psychological make-up. We don't know enough about these boys to comment on their chances of being able to live normally in society. In the meantime, most people will (correctly or incorrectly) continue to judge them on what they did because that's what we actually know about them.

 

[Paddy]

I remember them beating and throwing rocks and paint at him but I think the part about them cutting his fingers off, shoving batteries up his anus and 'other mutilations' is bollocks, and weren't these lads released years ago?

Yep. The batteries and scissors stuff is shite and they've been out for over seven years now. Not sure why OP would be getting that email now, it must be from 2001.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

This all stems back to when the death penalty was abolished and we were told that life would mean life. But it doesn't because somehow these cnuts have rights.

 

[Paddy]

This all stems back to when the death penalty was abolished and we were told that life would mean life. But it doesn't because somehow these cnuts have rights.

Life meaning life is usually only used in the UK for defendants who've committed more than one murder, and even then they usually have to be planned and sadistic. Even with these limits, the likes of Ian Huntley still don't have whole life convictions. Not sure where the idea that all 'life' prisoners should die in prison comes from since it is actually very rare for someone to be given this punishment. It would be ridiculous to expect 10 year olds to be given substantial sentences for any crime in the UK justice system.

 

[lynchie]

I'd disagree. You can't generalise based on chronological age and say that they are better prospects for rehabilitation than their elders, which is what you seem to be suggesting here. Whether they are capable of turning over a new leaf depends on a lot of factors, including their particular psychological make-up. We don't know enough about these boys to comment on their chances of being able to live normally in society. In the meantime, most people will (correctly or incorrectly) continue to judge them on what they did because that's what we actually know about them.

I think you can generalise that people are generally profoundly different as 10 year olds to how they are as adults. If there is no intention of rehabilitation in prison, then there's no point in prison.

 

[Johnno]

I remember them beating and throwing rocks and paint at him but I think the part about them cutting his fingers off, shoving batteries up his anus and 'other mutilations' is bollocks, and weren't these lads released years ago?

The actions in which are described are very much true; Jamie Bulger was sexually abused by both lads before he was killed.
They poured paint in his eyes and stuck batteries up his backside and also played with him privates.
The first-hand reports of the state of the body, the interviews with the children afterwards etc made it's way from Merseyside Police to Greater Manchester Police quite quickly and graphically being pretty much next door and knowing quite a few coppers, I have heard a very consistent and disturbing account from several of these police officers.

 

[Wibble]

Anyone seen Boy A? Not to dissimilar story to the Bulger sitiuation - a real eye opener.

Obviously inspired by the Bulger case even of the initial crime was different.

Raw but excellent film that may make people think twice before lurching to a knee jerk reaction.

 

[Rood]

Because they're evil fecking monsters who don't deserve to be free. They were not locked up to be rehabilitated.

I was having a similar debate with someone at work the other day who said the murderers of Baby P should be allowed back on the streets once they've been rehabilitated, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. People who commit these sort of crimes don't deserve anything.

But do you think they are inherently evil? i.e. born evil?
or is it due to the environment they were bought up in?

It is quite interesting to read some of the background (taken from wiki):

In court, details of the backgrounds of Thompson and Venables were not admitted. Thompson was one of the youngest of seven boys. His mother, a lone parent, was an alcoholic. His father, who left home when Thompson was five, was a drinker who beat and sexually abused his wife and children. Despite his quiet and friendly manner, Thompson came from a home in which it was normal for the older children to attack the younger ones, and Thompson was invariably on the receiving end.

Venables' parents were also separated. His brother and sister had educational problems and attended special schools, while his mother suffered psychiatric problems. Following his parents' separation, Venables became isolated and an attention-seeker: at school, he banged his head on walls. No effort was made to find the cause of his distress.

Other media commentators blamed the behaviour of Venables and Thompson on their families, or their social situation in one of the most deprived areas of the UK. The Liverpool Echo described it as 'a wounded city... The region's economy was on its knees, and unemployment was soaring'. A 2001 Ofsted report on Liverpool's schools said 'the city of Liverpool has the highest degree of deprivation in the country'. Following the murder, the boys' mothers, Susan Venables and Ann Thompson, were attacked in the street and vilified in the press.

Thompson's father had abandoned his wife and children five years previously, one week before the family home was burned down. Ann Thompson was a heavy drinker who found it difficult to control her seven children. Notes obtained by author Blake Morrison from an NSPCC case conference on the family, described it as 'appalling'. The children 'bit, hammered, battered, {and} tortured each other'. Incidents in the report included Philip (the third child) threatening his older brother Ian with a knife. Ian asked to be taken into foster care, and when he was returned to his family, he attempted suicide with painkillers. Ann and Philip had also attempted suicide.

Venables' family was less chaotic; although his parents were separated, they lived near each other, and he lived at his father's house two days a week. Both his older brother and younger sister had learning disabilities severe enough to attend special schools for children too disabled to be taught in the main system. Venables was hyperactive, and had attempted to strangle a boy in a fight at school. The police had been called to Susan Venables's house in 1987, when she left her children (then 3, 5 and 7) alone in the house for three hours. Case notes from that incident describe Susan's 'severe depressive problem' and suicidal tendencies.

 

[surf]

I think you can generalise that people are generally profoundly different as 10 year olds to how they are as adults. If there is no intention of rehabilitation in prison, then there's no point in prison.

I don't agree with the part in bold. See the current thread "Why are these people being protected?" Given that it's doubtful whether he can be rehabilitated, are you saying there's no point in that man being sent to prison? In some cases it's about protection of society and/or punishment of the criminal. I would agree that rehabilitation is important where possible, but it's not the only reason that people are imprisoned.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

I remember them beating and throwing rocks and paint at him but I think the part about them cutting his fingers off, shoving batteries up his anus and 'other mutilations' is bollocks, and weren't these lads released years ago?

The battery part is true. Not sure about the fingers

 

[Wibble]

it bothers me to even think too much about it tbh.
more convicts down to Australia then? surprised they'll take them in.

If I'm Jamie's relatives I'm off down to Oz to find the feckers. I wouldn't rest until I found both of them and made them suffer.

The Australian Government specifically denied that they were allowed to come to Australia.

 

[Rood]

The battery part is true. Not sure about the fingers

According to Wiki (which I know is not always 100% correct) the battery part is NOT true:

From facts at trial, at this location one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22 lb (10 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth . False reports claiming the batteries were pushed up his anus were spread by a chain letter[4]. The letter also claimed that Bulger's fingers were cut off using scissors; this is also untrue. James suffered skull fractures as a result of the iron bar being struck around his head; this wound is believed to have caused his death.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Because they're evil fecking monsters who don't deserve to be free. They were not locked up to be rehabilitated.

I was having a similar debate with someone at work the other day who said the murderers of Baby P should be allowed back on the streets once they've been rehabilitated, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. People who commit these sort of crimes don't deserve anything.

Well to be fair, from what I read about the Bulger case the boys were rehabilitated very well......but what you say about Baby P......that is just absolute out and out utter left wing liberal bullshit. Some of those leftwing cnuts seem to thing that everything is society's fault and not the wrong do'er. That rehabilitation will make those 2 monsters better.

Bollox. How do some people hold such bizarre opinions

 

[Johnno]

True story; when I was about 22 or 23, I was out in Sydney drinking and went to my meet my bird, future wife, in a club her and her mates were in as arranged. It was a daft RnB place with Filipino and Indian Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime poncing about thinking they're black. My bird's mate brought a lad with her and we got chatting. He was a year younger than me and was a Scouser. Whatever he said his name was, it wasn't Robert or John. He was a very stocky lad, looked quite hard in the face and that. Said he had moved over in his teens. He shown me an Everton badge tattoo he had on his arm. What was strange though was he was very vague about certain stuff like asking him about certain English stuff you'd chat about to someone form a similar background and he seemed to avoid some questions but wasn't being dismissive or rude or owt like that.
We left later and the next day I had this mad thought he was one of Thompson or Venables; he very most likely wasn't, but a lot of factors such as his age, appearance and odd responses all had me telling anyone who cared for ages I might have met one of Jamie Bulger's killers. I think now he wasn't, hopefully, but I know neither are in England; which would leave America, Canada or Australia as the most likely destinations for them to live in.

 

[Johnno]

According to Wiki (which I know is not always 100% correct) the battery part is NOT true:

From facts at trial, at this location one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22 lb (10 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth . False reports claiming the batteries were pushed up his anus were spread by a chain letter[4]. The letter also claimed that Bulger's fingers were cut off using scissors; this is also untrue. James suffered skull fractures as a result of the iron bar being struck around his head; this wound is believed to have caused his death.

There would be plenty Wikipedia would not know which was not released to the public by Merseyside Police or the coroner....

 

[Kinky Melinky]

According to Wiki (which I know is not always 100% correct) the battery part is NOT true:

From facts at trial, at this location one of the boys threw blue modelling paint on Bulger's face. They kicked him and hit him with bricks, stones and a 22 lb (10 kg) iron bar. They then placed batteries in his mouth . False reports claiming the batteries were pushed up his anus were spread by a chain letter[4]. The letter also claimed that Bulger's fingers were cut off using scissors; this is also untrue. James suffered skull fractures as a result of the iron bar being struck around his head; this wound is believed to have caused his death.

Maybe so. I am relying on one of my closest friends who studied Psychology. One of his final exams was a piece on the Jamie Bulger case. He told me that from a psychological point of view, putting batteries into Jamie Bulger represented a belief that the boys didn't know what they were doing, saw him as a toy and were almost carrying out some sort of resurrection - bringing new life into a dead child.

Who knows. Wiki isn't exactly the gospel truth, but then again my mate could have been talking shite

 

[Wibble]

The battery part is true. Not sure about the fingers

Not entirely true. They didn't chop any fingers off although the train may have done so when it hit the body, I don't know.

The batteries thing isn't true exactly either. There was no evidence of batteries being pushed up the kid's backside and neither of them admitted to any such thing either. The suspicions of sexual assault come from a few sources.

1) One of the killers was himself almost certainly a victim of sexual assault by his older brother.
2) Injuries to the lower body of James were suspicious and may have been due to sexual assault but were not conclusive.
3) The removal of a kids trousers and underwear is suspicious in itself although they claimed it was done to cover the victims face, thus the blood.
4) Their reactions when questioned about possible sexual elements of the crime including batteries suggested that something had occured.

This is a very comprehensive report
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html

 

[Kinky Melinky]

True story; when I was about 22 or 23, I was out in Sydney drinking and went to my meet my bird, future wife, in a club her and her mates were in as arranged. It was a daft RnB place with Filipino and Indian Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime poncing about thinking they're black. My bird's mate brought a lad with her and we got chatting. He was a year younger than me and was a Scouser. Whatever he said his name was, it wasn't Robert or John. He was a very stocky lad, looked quite hard in the face and that. Said he had moved over in his teens. He shown me an Everton badge tattoo he had on his arm. What was strange though was he was very vague about certain stuff like asking him about certain English stuff you'd chat about to someone form a similar background and he seemed to avoid some questions but wasn't being dismissive or rude or owt like that.
We left later and the next day I had this mad thought he was one of Thompson or Venables; he very most likely wasn't, but a lot of factors such as his age, appearance and odd responses all had me telling anyone who cared for ages I might have met one of Jamie Bulger's killers. I think now he wasn't, hopefully, but I know neither are in England; which would leave America, Canada or Australia as the most likely destinations for them to live in.

I heard one of them turned out to be gay. I'm not joking. By the way, the 2 boys haven't seen one another since the incident and live entirely seperate lives

 

[Johnno]

I heard one of them turned out to be gay. I'm not joking. By the way, the 2 boys haven't seen one another since the incident and live entirely seperate lives

Many men who eventually consider themselves gay have experienced some form of abuse, not all but quite a lot

 

[Wibble]

I would have thought that overseas travel would be prohibited by the terms of their parole?

There have also been unsubstantiated recent newspaper rumours that both are still in the UK (one admitted to hospital after being assaulted and the other on a methadone program).

 

[Johnno]

I would have thought that overseas travel would be prohibited by the terms of their parole?

There have also been unsubstantiated recent newspaper rumours that both are still in the UK (one admitted to hospital after being assaulted and the other on a methadone program).

I don't think it's technically travel as they've emigrated.
I can't see how anyone found out who they were unless they admitted it to a confidante and that person blabbed it to everyone.
The living overseas thing could very well be a smokescreen, but I would dare say at least one of them is overseas with very few British officials knowing the location and pseudonym which they keep in a file stamped 'Top Secret'.
I remember hearing the rumour/story about the UK assault which many claimed as incorrect reports, just as the Perth issue a few years back...

 

[Rood]

Maybe so. I am relying on one of my closest friends who studied Psychology. One of his final exams was a piece on the Jamie Bulger case. He told me that from a psychological point of view, putting batteries into Jamie Bulger represented a belief that the boys didn't know what they were doing, saw him as a toy and were almost carrying out some sort of resurrection - bringing new life into a dead child.

Who knows. Wiki isn't exactly the gospel truth, but then again my mate could have been talking shite

Yes that is true - everything on Wiki must be taken with a pinch of salt.
However, the exam question would still be valid as they did apparently put batteries into his mouth. As you say - who knows what exactly is the truth?

The psychology angle is interesting - I seem to remember that the movie Childs Play was blamed for being one of the sources that lead the two kids to do what they did. Aparently there are various similarities to a scene in one of those films but I dont know if this is true or just media hysteria.