Nurseries being open during Lockdown

[Toad]

Hopefully a separate thread on this is allowed because I was hoping to get a discussion going away from the main thread.

My partner is a nursery worker, we live in the southeast where the infections rates are high and they have kept the nurseries open to all children and not just essential workers children and the vulnerable.

Today my partner had a parent drop their child off at the nursery gate and said “Have a nice day, I’m just going home to have a cup of tea and relax.” For is it was pretty disgusting that a parent would want her child to go to nursery let alone leaving with a comment like that. Most of the parents that drop their kids off there are the same, they are going home and not going into work, we know this because my partner often speaks to the parents and knows them very well.

Nurseries are full contact, you can not keep 2 metre distances, you do have to change a child’s nappy and interact with them all day.

What are your thoughts on this? And what would you expect from the government if you was in this situation?

 

[decorativeed]

If it were me, I'd be keeping my kids home. I know people I work with, who are both working from home, are sending their kids into nursery, but at least they have some reason to. For people to be doing it just for a bit of peace and quiet doesn't seem to be in the spirit of things, but another example of the selfishness of society.

 

[4bars]

If you don't like kids, don't have them. Then you will be able to relax and have all the tea in the world

 

[lynchie]

I can't see why it needs an extra thread, but there's no evidence that kids going to nursery is a significant risk for anyone. My youngest is going to nursery because social interaction is massively important to their development at that age.

 

[Stactix]

The trust I work for has done the same for Nursery as they've done for others years. Required parents to request to have kids in, obviously they have to be open for all but this extra step will hopefully put some parents off.

Was in the staffroom when the head was speaking to the two nursery staff, one was in tears.
I don't think you'll find many happy staff in schools, it's certainly not worth the 20% salary over furlough.

 

[No Love]

If you don't like kids, don't have them. Then you will be able to relax and have all the tea in the world

Yes. This.

 

[RoadTrip]

I’m working from home. It simply would not be possible for me to do my job even remotely effectively if my 18 month old was at home. I send my kid into nursery as otherwise I’d need to adjust working hours.

 

[Gambit]

We are keeping our child at home. I also work from home as does my partner.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I thought this about plant nurseries and was really confused at first.

 

[Toad]

If it were me, I'd be keeping my kids home. I know people I work with, who are both working from home, are sending their kids into nursery, but at least they have some reason to. For people to be doing it just for a bit of peace and quiet doesn't seem to be in the spirit of things, but another example of the selfishness of society.

I agree, if working from home it’s probably for the best. I don’t think I’d be able to drop my kids off at nursery/school and not feel guilty about it. The main thing that gets us is that we now have to drop our daughter to school as we are both essential workers even though my wife ‘could’ be off work if everyone did the right thing. I secretly just think she likes homeschooling

 

[Toad]

I can't see why it needs an extra thread, but there's no evidence that kids going to nursery is a significant risk for anyone. My youngest is going to nursery because social interaction is massively important to their development at that age.

Of course it’s important for them to go to nursery but missing out on a couple of months of nursery in the grand scheme of things is nothing. The evidence is there, anyone can carry a virus, kids may not be affected like the vulnerable and the unfortunate cases but the virus can still be carried which can then pass on to the nursery worker and the chain continues back into said nursery workers household etc.

 

[Toad]

The trust I work for has done the same for Nursery as they've done for others years. Required parents to request to have kids in, obviously they have to be open for all but this extra step will hopefully put some parents off.

Was in the staffroom when the head was speaking to the two nursery staff, one was in tears.
I don't think you'll find many happy staff in schools, it's certainly not worth the 20% salary over furlough.

Slot of nursery workers and teachers prior to the announcement at my wives school/nursery were upset over this also hence why the schools most likely shit for non essential in the end. For us we are lucky enough that I’m the main earner but even if I wasn’t i would put my family before finances and ‘happily’ take the furlough.

 

[Toad]

I’m working from home. It simply would not be possible for me to do my job even remotely effectively if my 18 month old was at home. I send my kid into nursery as otherwise I’d need to adjust working hours.

We are keeping our child at home. I also work from home as does my partner.

Either way. If you have to work from home then I don’t think it’s ever an issue, we do need to still carry on with some normality and if that means you can’t do your job effectively without having your child there then it makes sense to put them in nursery but if you can then I’d rather applaud that than the NHS because that is some talented parenting skill.

 

[Wibble]

I can't see why it needs an extra thread, but there's no evidence that kids going to nursery is a significant risk for anyone. My youngest is going to nursery because social interaction is massively important to their development at that age.

While we know very young kids tend to get low or no symptoms we still aren't 100% sure they get infected less often and how easily they can pass it in if they do. You would assume low/no symptoms would mean less often but the risk of them spreading covid is far from zero and lots of adults work in the industry as well.

 

[lynchie]

While we know very young kids tend to get low or no symptoms we still aren't 100% sure they get infected less often and how easily they can pass it in if they do. You would assume low/no symptoms would mean less often but the risk of them spreading covid is far from zero and lots of adults work in the industry as well.

Even if not zero (and there have been zero cases in our nursery since it reopened in July), it's far less than in a lot of other environments that are staying open. I was called naive for suggesting the factories that make haribo and tunnocks tea cakes could close for a few weeks to let their workers stay at home, since they have had known outbreaks, but apparently a toddler should just suck up being stuck in isolation. In normal times he'd be going to no end of singing groups and messy play groups and all sorts of awful stuff, that's important for development, and all that's been taken away, so I'm absolutely fine with him going to the very low risk environment of his nursery.

 

[Carl]

Attitude of a lot of parents is pretty shit. My child's school hasn't helped the situation, saying only one parent needs to be a key worker (even in 2 parent households) but even so, most of the class is in when its not necessary.

My wife's in a whatsapp group with other parents for the class (reception) and there are parents sending their children in despite being on maternity leave. There's one sending their child in even though she doesn't work. There's one who works 2 days a week but sending her child in for the full week because "doing just 2 days would confuse him". You get the drift. The result is that more than half of the class are in.

 

[Wibble]

Even if not zero (and there have been zero cases in our nursery since it reopened in July), it's far less than in a lot of other environments that are staying open. I was called naive for suggesting the factories that make haribo and tunnocks tea cakes could close for a few weeks to let their workers stay at home, since they have had known outbreaks, but apparently a toddler should just suck up being stuck in isolation. In normal times he'd be going to no end of singing groups and messy play groups and all sorts of awful stuff, that's important for development, and all that's been taken away, so I'm absolutely fine with him going to the very low risk environment of his nursery.

We don't really test the U9's which is why we don't know if there really are zero cases. If you don't test and those not tested often don't display symptoms how do you know?

I sent my son to kindy from 3 months but missing out on a few months of it wouldn't have made much or any difference.

And IMO a huge problem with the UK approach and people's reaction, is that instead of looking at the evidence and acting accordingly they just look to finding something allowed that is perceived as lower risk than what they want to do.

The UK is such a covid basket case because they haven't been prepared to make the hard decisions and the result is that most of the 80k who have so far died didn't need to.

Not that this is your fault at all. The government need to take charge and are blatantly unable to do so. If they allow school or kindy's to open then people are going to use them especially when not to do so impacts work.

 

[Rams]

This thread makes me furious. In Holland the nurseries are closed, so I have to work from home with a 1 year old and a 3 year old. It’s a fecking nightmare and it’s not fair on either the parents or the kids. The mental strain is enormous and this problem should get far more publicity, it’s difficult to describe what parents in my position are going through. So when the nursery is open again I’m going to drop the kids off and go home for a relaxing cup of vodka.

 

[rcoobc]

This thread makes me furious. In Holland the nurseries are closed, so I have to work from home with a 1 year old and a 3 year old. It’s a fecking nightmare and it’s not fair on either the parents or the kids. The mental strain is enormous and this problem should get far more publicity, it’s difficult to describe what parents in my position are going through. So when the nursery is open again I’m going to drop the kids off and go home for a relaxing cup of vodka.

Nurseries should be open. Primary schools for kids under 10 years old should be open.

It's vital for the development. It's vital to allow parents to work.

COVID shouldn't have been allowed to go out of control to the point that schools are closed again.

It's a disgrace.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It’s an interesting debate, and one that should be had. There’s no doubt a clear division in option based on whether you have a child aged 1-3 or you’ve not hit kids.

with a child that age, you can’t work from home. It’s impossible. That means a parent is taken out of work. Furthermore, most parents, if they are lucky enough to have the child’s grandparent around will use them for childcare.

so without nursery, you are encouraging old people to mix - and that’s where the danger is.

with older children, whilst it is a challenge, and not one that I underestimate, you can work from home.

I understand the perspective from a nursery workers position, but if the nursery is well managed, has the right procedures then they are providing an essential service, which has to stay open in my opinion.

Of course the parent who made that comment is both a tool and insensitive, but they are the minority.

That’s are also safeguarding issues with children who can’t talk at that age.

If you don't like kids, don't have them. Then you will be able to relax and have all the tea in the world

with all due respect, I assume you are not a parent.

 

[Andy_Cole]

This thread makes me furious. In Holland the nurseries are closed, so I have to work from home with a 1 year old and a 3 year old. It’s a fecking nightmare and it’s not fair on either the parents or the kids. The mental strain is enormous and this problem should get far more publicity, it’s difficult to describe what parents in my position are going through. So when the nursery is open again I’m going to drop the kids off and go home for a relaxing cup of vodka.

It’s people who don’t have kids who are disillusioned about raising kids. Nurseries and schools are vital for child development. It’s not because the parent is lazy that they are sending kids to school. The OP is being pathetic here. If he’s uncomfortable about his partners job then tell her to find a new career ffs.

My sons nursery has recorded ZERO Covid cases. That tells me it’s safe to send him. Even if I didn’t ‘need’ to send him I would because of the child’s development. Call me selfish but I put my child’s upbringing ahead of anything else.

 

[SinNombre]

Isn’t there some evidence that kids below 8 or 9 don’t really transmit and it is more important to keep teenagers at home to stop Covid transmission?

Or at least I remember reading a paper on this.

 

[That'sHernandez]

I’m sending my daughter to nursery 3 days a week as she gets far more stimulation and social interaction there than she would at home. I am working full time from home and my wife is on maternity with our second. It’s so incredibly difficult keeping a three year old entertained while one person is working full time and we have a baby to take care of in the midst as well; it wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t in the middle of winter where the weather is an absolute shit show, you can’t take them anywhere to get the energy out.

During the first lockdown we were both working full time and looking after our daughter, we managed but not without putting great strain on our relationship as our daughter switch between our custody while we each bounced from meeting to meeting. By the time nurseries were back in September my daughter was so quiet and withdrawn, she’s only just got back to how she was before the first lockdown.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It’s people who don’t have kids who are disillusioned about raising kids. Nurseries and schools are vital for child development. It’s not because the parent is lazy that they are sending kids to school. The OP is being pathetic here. If he’s uncomfortable about his partners job then tell her to find a new career ffs.

My sons nursery has recorded ZERO Covid cases. That tells me it’s safe to send him. Even if I didn’t ‘need’ to send him I would because of the child’s development. Call me selfish but I put my child’s upbringing ahead of anything else.

more blunt than I’d have put it. But I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[That'sHernandez]

It’s people who don’t have kids who are disillusioned about raising kids. Nurseries and schools are vital for child development. It’s not because the parent is lazy that they are sending kids to school. The OP is being pathetic here. If he’s uncomfortable about his partners job then tell her to find a new career ffs.

My sons nursery has recorded ZERO Covid cases. That tells me it’s safe to send him. Even if I didn’t ‘need’ to send him I would because of the child’s development. Call me selfish but I put my child’s upbringing ahead of anything else.

Not sure I agree with the bit about dictating to someone what career they should have but agree with the other bits. My nursery has recorded three cases since September and two of those were from one household. There was, however, a chicken pox outbreak in December that my daughter somehow managed to avoid.

 

[lynchie]

Isn’t there some evidence that kids below 8 or 9 don’t really transmit and it is more important to keep teenagers at home to stop Covid transmission?

Or at least I remember reading a paper on this.

Surveillance testing consistently shows that nursery age kids are less likely to be infected than other age groups. Contact tracing consistently shows lower attack rates from infected children and infants.

However, in fairness to those who have been obsessing about schools, the last 3 weeks of schools being closed is really showing dividends with cases dropping off a cliff in the UK.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

1) Most working people can't keep children at home.
2) Even if they can, social interaction is important for a child's development.
3) Nurseries are a fairly low risk environment.

 

[Rams]

I’m not convinced about how much my 3 year old is missing in terms of child development, but he’s certainly not receiving the same attention he would if both parents weren’t working or the nursery was open.

 

[Spark]

Aren’t nurseries private? They can surely shut down if they feel the need. They are probably glad they’re able to stay open, considering how expensive they are.

Slightly off topic, my girlfriend is a primary school teacher. She’s pissed off that school has closed again, as the impact on children’s development is huge. E.g. year 4s with a reading age of year 1/2s (they lost half of their year 3 learning last year too). Home learning only further widens the gap between rich and poor, as parents who are wealthy (i.e. have a stable job) tend to ensure their children do the daily work set. Those who live in chaotic circumstances rely on schools for a safe space to learn.

The main problem - and this is obvious - is the lack of notice given by the government. No guidance on best practice for home schooling and zero leadership from the top down. All that means is that it’s a total lucky dip as to whether your child will get adequate support from their school.

The pandemic was always going to wreck havoc. But the scale to which it has in terms of education is just another reflection of the shocking lack of quality in our senior politicians.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Surveillance testing consistently shows that nursery age kids are less likely to be infected than other age groups. Contact tracing consistently shows lower attack rates from infected children and infants.

However, in fairness to those who have been obsessing about schools, the last 3 weeks of schools being closed is really showing dividends with cases dropping off a cliff in the UK.

Heh. It’s kind of mad actually. Considering we know that secondary school kids definitely have a role to play in transmission you’d expect at least some sort of effect on the curve from schools closing for holidays. It didn’t even change the angle of the curve.

Just shows how much more important adult behaviour is in all of this. Kids have a reputation for being crap at social distancing but they’re obviously far better at it - sober, during school hours - than their parents are when they’re out on the town.

 

[rcoobc]

It’s an interesting debate, and one that should be had. There’s no doubt a clear division in option based on whether you have a child aged 1-3 or you’ve not hit kids.

with a child that age, you can’t work from home. It’s impossible. That means a parent is taken out of work. Furthermore, most parents, if they are lucky enough to have the child’s grandparent around will use them for childcare.

so without nursery, you are encouraging old people to mix - and that’s where the danger is.

with older children, whilst it is a challenge, and not one that I underestimate, you can work from home.

I understand the perspective from a nursery workers position, but if the nursery is well managed, has the right procedures then they are providing an essential service, which has to stay open in my opinion.

Of course the parent who made that comment is both a tool and insensitive, but they are the minority.

That’s are also safeguarding issues with children who can’t talk at that age.

with all due respect, I assume you are not a parent.

Not just that - but in the *attempt* to work from home with a 3 year old, you are arguably neglecting that child. Of course, that's hyperbole because no parent (few parents) would put their job in front of doing the bare minimum for their child, but it puts parents in an uncomfortable situation.

Plenty of people are doing jobs where you can't socially distance. What about social workers, elderly care staff, and heck even retail staff? (because let's be honest, lots of people don't give a crap when shopping).

 

[rcoobc]

Aren’t nurseries private? They can surely shut down if they feel the need. They are probably glad they’re able to stay open, considering how expensive they are.

Slightly off topic, my girlfriend is a primary school teacher. She’s pissed off that school has closed again, as the impact on children’s development is huge. E.g. year 4s with a reading age of year 1/2s (they lost half of their year 3 learning last year too). Home learning only further widens the gap between rich and poor, as parents who are wealthy (i.e. have a stable job) tend to ensure their children do the daily work set. Those who live in chaotic circumstances rely on schools for a safe space to learn.

The main problem - and this is obvious - is the lack of notice given by the government. No guidance on best practice for home schooling and zero leadership from the top down. All that means is that it’s a total lucky dip as to whether your child will get adequate support from their school.

The pandemic was always going to wreck havoc. But the scale to which it has in terms of education is just another reflection of the shocking lack of quality in our senior politicians.

My kids school was sending one A4 piece of paper of work for my 6 year old during the 1st lockdown.

One A4 piece of paper - PER WEEK.

They seemed to have the attitude that this was a one-off event that will happen for a few months and everyone is in the same boat. Never mind that private primary school kids were having private daily zoom lessons.

Since then they've been shut down twice more due to outbreaks and now this.

But it's okay some on here say.

 

[Brophs]

My wife is classified as essential, albeit is on maternity leave with our son and could, in theory, send our daughter back into crèche, but we’re not going to put her in harm’s way in crèche to make our lives a bit easier. That said, it’s easy for me to say that as my wife is off work at present and I’m self employed and can suit myself. I don’t have the pressures some people have.

 

[Smores]

Surveillance testing consistently shows that nursery age kids are less likely to be infected than other age groups. Contact tracing consistently shows lower attack rates from infected children and infants.

However, in fairness to those who have been obsessing about schools, the last 3 weeks of schools being closed is really showing dividends with cases dropping off a cliff in the UK.

Are they less likely to be infected or are they just less likely to get a positive test? Because there's obvious reasons why they wouldn't show up in the testing data and why contact tracing isn't picking them up.

I'd definitely lump in any outcomes from the data being far too constrained for reasonable analysis. There's been so many elements of covid where small studies have entered the mainstream without any actual critique.

 

[londonredmaniac]

It’s people who don’t have kids who are disillusioned about raising kids. Nurseries and schools are vital for child development. It’s not because the parent is lazy that they are sending kids to school. The OP is being pathetic here. If he’s uncomfortable about his partners job then tell her to find a new career ffs.

My sons nursery has recorded ZERO Covid cases. That tells me it’s safe to send him. Even if I didn’t ‘need’ to send him I would because of the child’s development. Call me selfish but I put my child’s upbringing ahead of anything else.

Spot on. Some of the judgemental bullshit in here makes my piss boil.

fecking morons.

 

[lynchie]

Are they less likely to be infected or are they just less likely to get a positive test? Because there's obvious reasons why they wouldn't show up in the testing data and why contact tracing isn't picking them up.

I'd definitely lump in any outcomes from the data being far too constrained for reasonable analysis. There's been so many elements of covid where small studies have entered the mainstream without any actual critique.

Less likely to be infected. The ONS have been doing random surveillance testing for a good while now.

 

[Toad]

Attitude of a lot of parents is pretty shit. My child's school hasn't helped the situation, saying only one parent needs to be a key worker (even in 2 parent households) but even so, most of the class is in when its not necessary.

My wife's in a whatsapp group with other parents for the class (reception) and there are parents sending their children in despite being on maternity leave. There's one sending their child in even though she doesn't work. There's one who works 2 days a week but sending her child in for the full week because "doing just 2 days would confuse him". You get the drift. The result is that more than half of the class are in.

This kind of goes back to an earlier comment I saw. If you don’t want kids then don’t have them, some people are happy to palm there kids off (I know quite a few of them) on other people everyday, I just think it’s crazy.

 

[Toad]

Nurseries should be open. Primary schools for kids under 10 years old should be open.

It's vital for the development. It's vital to allow parents to work.

COVID shouldn't have been allowed to go out of control to the point that schools are closed again.

It's a disgrace.

They should be open to children of those who have to work and have no other child care and the vulnerable. I like to think we do a reasonable job at homeschooling. I have booked off next next to homeschool my 6 yo as my partner is working. This could be fun Development is important but the health and safety of the nation is more important, as long as they are getting the attention and homeschooling they need. Although you can also argue some parents aren’t in the same situation as some of us, I’m often printing out pages and pages of work for other parents children’s work as they just can’t do it and the school are only supplying online work. Sad times.

 

[Toad]

It’s people who don’t have kids who are disillusioned about raising kids. Nurseries and schools are vital for child development. It’s not because the parent is lazy that they are sending kids to school. The OP is being pathetic here. If he’s uncomfortable about his partners job then tell her to find a new career ffs.

My sons nursery has recorded ZERO Covid cases. That tells me it’s safe to send him. Even if I didn’t ‘need’ to send him I would because of the child’s development. Call me selfish but I put my child’s upbringing ahead of anything else.

Clearly a split opinion on this. The parents are literally lazy... They are walking away saying “Enjoy, I’m going home to have a tea and relax” full well knowing they don’t work. That’s lazy, that is showing that you would rather sit on your arse more than look after your kid. The fact is, you don’t work in a nursery so clearly don’t see the attitudes of some parents.

 

[Toad]

Less likely to be infected. The ONS have been doing random surveillance testing for a good while now.

Not less likely to carry though.