Oil Money in Football | New City expose

[Vadim]

I wonder if players will take a stance at one point and just not play for them or if they will feign ignorance? I wouldn't want to work for certain companies for instance, so I wonder whether that comes into it in football at all (and I'm not talking about not wanting to play for your favourite club's rivals).

There is no way in hell the players will stop playing for them!

Money is everything to these young men, they don’t care where it comes from.

 

[PoTMS]

It'll never ever happen but what if City were stripped of their titles and the titles retrospectively were handed to the runners up. We'd have 22 but Liverpool would have won a league title too. Can't be having that.

 

[Maagge]

There is no way in hell the players will stop playing for them!

Money is everything to these young men, they don’t care where it comes from.

Why are they so different from regular people though? Say, if a tobacco company promised me a 50% raise to come and work for them, I wouldn't do it. Simple as that. It's not like these players wouldn't make millions playing elsewhere.

 

[WensleyMU]

The players would have to risk being investigated themselves as they will be involved in the shady contract deals that are in place.

 

[Tincanalley]

It's hard to get your head around the riches of Abu Dhabi. City don't have actual sponsors. They use their 'Sponsorships' (of the Abu Dhabi airline, Abu Dhabi tourism, Abu Dhabi hair cream etc), to retrospectively cook the books to avoid breaking rules to do with spending. They have manufactured the illusion that certain attendance packages are being sold. They are not being sold at all, these are just another vehicle, cooked up by accountants, to inject money invisibly. So it's all about utterly soaking City in a bottomless pit of oil and corruption money. None of it, or let's say only a miniscule percentage of it, derives from football. Those accountants, and the people who 'influence' on behalf of City are as important to the success of the team as is Aguero or Pep. That's the difference between them and the other clubs in the Prem.

Now I don't watch pro wrestling. I, and I hope I am not alone here, like sports with actual competition. A reasonably - with imperfections of course - reasonably fair one. For example if I heard that MUFC were being paid to throw matches, or De Gea to let in goals, I would no longer support them. If I heard that someone had bought the Premier League, and that it was a competition in name only, that one team could flout the basic tenets of company competition and fair play, completely work around the spirit of the game, a big part of my interest would simply wither away.

The key to wrong-doing is the fact that City needed to go to such lengths to hide the level of non-football investment.

So. The real wages of players. The real investment in stadium, facilities, players and management team. That was info that had to be concealed, the emails show. That info had to be kept away from the FA, the British press, UEFA, the fans. If the owners and the club themselves thought it was fair, why go to all that bother? Their actions show that they are cheats. They are not worthy Premier League champions. They are Manchester Cheaty, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[SER19]

Deleted?

Sorry link doesn’t seem to work for some. It’s just klopp saying any team suspected should be investigated. Every manager needs a united front on that

 

[WensleyMU]

Some of the ideas here for punishment and what should be done to prevent things in the future are laughable and make me think that people haven’t read the actual “allegations” or just don’t understand there implications.

Numerous people above are asking for points deductions, again read the articles this is a uefa rule not a Premier League one, why would the Premier League dock points for that? And secondly and even more hilariously people calling for a breakaway league if city are not punished up to a standard fans see fit, again I refer you to my previous answer. Obviously if some of these punishment calls are tongue in cheek then apologies.

Seems to me that there isnt much debate about these articles and instead people standing up shouting for punishment without understanding them.

Many of them are tongue in cheek as we dontd believe the games authorities have the balls to do anything about it.

Only through pressure from clubs and independent investigation by the likes of the EU, UK and French governments and revenue services will anything happen. UEFA, the FA and Premier League are more likely to be implicated in it, than to investigate it.

As a City fan though, how do you feel about it? Ultimately it's your club who will feel the brunt of it if the shit hits the fan.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/09/manchester-derby-city-united-abu-dhabi-investment

I like the opening....

"Oh, what happened to me, whatever happened to you? What became of Robinho – and Benjani? If the rise of Manchester City is anything to go by, all it takes to create an era of generational club football dominance is £2bn, the greatest manager of the modern age and the fevered dreams of an oil-rich Gulf state".

You don't get enough Likely Lads references in journalism.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It's ok everyone. In this horrible world we live in, let us be thankful for City and Pep. Our ray of sunshine in this dark world.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[MrMarcello]

/\
I guess Kay has a point. Just like it was possible to love the Krays (or Capone or Gotti) for their charisma while disliking they fact they were murderous criminals.

 

[JPRouve]

Many of them are tongue in cheek as we dontd believe the games authorities have the balls to do anything about it.

Only through pressure from clubs and independent investigation by the likes of the EU, UK and French governments and revenue services will anything happen. UEFA, the FA and Premier League are more likely to be implicated in it, than to investigate it.

As a City fan though, how do you feel about it? Ultimately it's your club who will feel the brunt of it if the shit hits the fan.

There is nothing illegal regarding the revenues from a general standpoint and the french governments better stay away, powers are supposed to be separated in France.

 

[Andycoleno9]

All those leaks but FA and UEFA are quiet. Why? Say something, do something ffs

 

[WensleyMU]

There is nothing illegal regarding the revenues from a general standpoint and the french governments better stay away, powers are supposed to be separated in France.

I don't really know anything about French law or the French football Federation but there are elements of the allegations that could fall under various anti fraud laws in the UK.

 

[Mordownm35]

Many of them are tongue in cheek as we dontd believe the games authorities have the balls to do anything about it.

Only through pressure from clubs and independent investigation by the likes of the EU, UK and French governments and revenue services will anything happen. UEFA, the FA and Premier League are more likely to be implicated in it, than to investigate it.

As a City fan though, how do you feel about it? Ultimately it's your club who will feel the brunt of it if the shit hits the fan.

For what it’s worth I think that out of the 4 days of releases only one point was really worth any kind of real look at which is obviously the sponsorship one. The rest of the point weren’t really very sensational or out there.

In regards to the sponsorship deals people seem to be forgetting they are not more than the specified amount. City receive from the sponsorship the exact amount that is declared in their accounts and these have been signed off by uefa as falling within the market value that they deem correct. Now the outrage from most is that some of these sponsorships are subsidised by Abu Dhabi investment companies. Now within the FFP laws that is acceptable, but people, rightly or wrongly, are upset by it as they see it a circumventing FFP. As a city fan who saw FFP purely as a vehicle to protect a certain established clubs I have no Issue with the club working around it and finding loopholes within the system which is effectively what they have done in order to remain competitive with the richest clubs.

The only part of the leaks that as a City fan I was unhappy with was the regional sponsorship deal with arabtec. If you don’t want bad press off a sponsorship deal and so make it regional in order to avoid that I would argue the club shouldn’t be making it at all.

Other than that the nothing has changed from these leaks in my eyes.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't really know anything about French law or the French football Federation but there are elements of the allegations that could fall under various anti fraud laws in the UK.

And there are elements of FFP that are illegal. That's the entire issue here and one of the reasons why UEFA is reluctant to be too harsh.

Also in France all clubs are subject to annual audit by the DNCG.

 

[WensleyMU]

And there are elements of FFP that are illegal. That's the entire issue here and one of the reasons why UEFA is reluctant to be too harsh.

Also in France all clubs are subject to annual audit by the DNCG.

Have they been deemed illegal or are they potentially illegal?

Given the allegations this past week, I doubt the EU or EC would want to be seen encouraging corruption, bribabry and the rest.

 

[Neo_Mufc]

Nothings going to happen. The minute UEFA bent over and gave permission for those people to get their hands on Europe's clubs they sold themselves cheap.

As long as this global brand of football continues to grow, it doesn't matter where the money comes.

All we need now is a Super European league where we will see massive games every weekend. Instead of Utd vs Fulham and City vs Everton how about Utd vs R.Madrid, and City vs PSG.

At the end of the day this will get forgotten and many will get sucked into the next Sky Super Sunday chapter.

 

[BBRBB]

Have they been deemed illegal or are they potentially illegal?

According to RMC the ECJ already issued a warning concerning the anti competitive nature of FFP.]

 

[AP88]

For what it’s worth I think that out of the 4 days of releases only one point was really worth any kind of real look at which is obviously the sponsorship one. The rest of the point weren’t really very sensational or out there.

In regards to the sponsorship deals people seem to be forgetting they are not more than the specified amount. City receive from the sponsorship the exact amount that is declared in their accounts and these have been signed off by uefa as falling within the market value that they deem correct. Now the outrage from most is that some of these sponsorships are subsidised by Abu Dhabi investment companies. Now within the FFP laws that is acceptable, but people, rightly or wrongly, are upset by it as they see it a circumventing FFP. As a city fan who saw FFP purely as a vehicle to protect a certain established clubs I have no Issue with the club working around it and finding loopholes within the system which is effectively what they have done in order to remain competitive with the richest clubs.

The only part of the leaks that as a City fan I was unhappy with was the regional sponsorship deal with arabtec. If you don’t want bad press off a sponsorship deal and so make it regional in order to avoid that I would argue the club shouldn’t be making it at all.

Other than that the nothing has changed from these leaks in my eyes.

Why were you upset with Arabtec, when Abu Dhabi itself is a Sharia state where Human Rights are systematically violated? Women are secondary citizens, homosexuality is outlawed, child marriage and slavery are standard, people are stoned to death etc?

Any success belongs to them and their propaganda agenda - the fans are just useful, complicit idiots who ultimately gave up on their ‘proper club’ standpoint and morality as soon as a tyrant offered them some prosperity.....just like the majority of the German populace did when Hitler started showering them with his National Socialism.

The Arabs have no interest in being competitive; they could have done so by abiding by the parameters of FFP. They want to monopolise, and that’s why they have no place in football.

The fans, Pep, everything about the club is the embodiment of hypocrisy and an embarrassment to the sport, and the City of Manchester itself.

 

[Zlaatan]

So not only is their success just a product of getting an owner with unlimited funds, they've also lied and cheated to get where they are because doing it legally would take too long/not work. What an absolute joke of a club.

 

[Mordownm35]

Why were you upset with Arabtec, when Abu Dhabi itself is a Sharia state where Human Rights are systematically violated? Women are secondary citizens, homosexuality is outlawed, child marriage and slavery are standard, people are stoned to death etc?

Any success belongs to them and their propaganda agenda - the fans are just useful, complicit idiots who ultimately gave up on their ‘proper club’ standpoint and morality as soon as a tyrant offered them some prosperity.....just like the majority of the German populace did when Hitler started showering them with his National Socialism.

The Arabs have no interest in being competitive; they could have done so by abiding by the parameters of FFP. They want to monopolise, and that’s why they have no place in football.

The fans, Pep, everything about the club is the embodiment of hypocrisy and an embarrassment to the sport, and the City of Manchester itself.

Unfortunately you’ve just embodied the very type of fan who these leaks are lost on. The arabtec deal is the only one I had an issue with because they regionalised it because of the negative media it would bring, if they worried about that it should have just been binned off from the start.

You’ve gone off topic here and resorted to the moralistic rhetoric that you use to justify hatred of our owners that because they hail from Abu Dhabi who have a poor history of rights against migrant workers. I’m not sure what your argument entails, that because of this I should stop supporting my club who I supported before they came in as owners? Or that now all fans of clubs are complicit in the actions or beliefs of there owners purely through association of the football club they support? Does the fact that the glazer family donated to Donald trumps presidential election fund mean that everything the president says or does is a reflection on the glazers who own your football club? That because you support the club they own you That by association you agree with everything president trump says or does? No, thought not.

That’s the murky path the logic in your post leads and when I put it like that sounds stupid doesn’t it. But we were talking about the Der Spiegel leaks and that was my opinion on them above before you went off topic.

 

[Spiersey]

Didn't Rangers get relegated two divisions for paying their players through hidden contracts? This is just the ones Football leaks know about. Between their actual City contracts, the external fraudulent Image Rights contracts, and hidden ADUG payments, I bet they pay double their stated wages. They promised to pay Sane 28m over 3 years and guaranteed a top up if the contract didn't cover it. Dodgy as feck.

Rangers didn’t get relegated. Their club was dissolved and formed an entirely new club that was allowed to start in the bottom division (after a vote by all the other clubs). The fans will say it’s the same club so They keep their history but maintain its a different club so they don’t have to pay their debts.

 

[JPRouve]

Have they been deemed illegal or are they potentially illegal?

Given the allegations this past week, I doubt the EU or EC would want to be seen encouraging corruption, bribabry and the rest.

It goes against competition laws, freedom of enterprise laws and the ECJ allegedly warned the UEFA about it. The issue is simply that the UEFA don't want to go to court, the entire thing is ridiculous, PSG need to be audited ones again, the last time one said that everything was okay while an other said the opposite. According to UEFA rules, PSG will choose the third auditor while UEFA will pay the bill.

The UEFA is a shady organization, they will negotiate with PSG, City and every other wealthy clubs because they don't want any outsider to look from too close.

 

[SteveJ]

Amnesty International comment:

Amnesty turns the heat up on ‘sportswashing’ Manchester City owners

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ter-city-amnesty-international-football-leaks

 

[Catt]

The embarrassment this must cause the Premier League?

The team that is going to win the league at a canter for the 2nd year running is doing so based on lies, fraudulence and corruption.

When the teams below them can't keep up and everybody knows City are cheats, I can't see people rushing to watch the PL.

Agree with this. Can't see the interest in the PL continue to rise.

 

[JPRouve]

Amnesty International comment:

Amnesty turns the heat up on ‘sportswashing’ Manchester City owners

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ter-city-amnesty-international-football-leaks

I was wondering why Qatar doesn't get the same criticism, so looked at Amnesty international overview on both countries. I'm surprised to see how different the overviews are, while Qatar is clearly not great, UAE reads like hell on earth.

 

[Random Task]

Agree with this. Can't see the interest in the PL continue to rise.

The idea of a new breakaway Super League is gaining support at an alarming rate.

 

[BBRBB]

I was wondering why Qatar doesn't get the same criticism, so looked at Amnesty international overview on both countries. I'm surprised to see how different the overviews are, while Qatar is clearly not great, UAE reads like hell on earth.

I don't know about Amnesty but Qatar gets plenty of criticism from NGOs.

 

[Anustart89]

I wonder if players will take a stance at one point and just not play for them or if they will feign ignorance? I wouldn't want to work for certain companies for instance, so I wonder whether that comes into it in football at all (and I'm not talking about not wanting to play for your favourite club's rivals).

Four days ago Sterling kicked the ground, fell over and didn't say anything when the ref gave him a penalty. Do you really think he'll speak up against the owners that are about to give him closer to £300k per week due to some kind of morality clause? No chance.

 

[Catt]

All those leaks but FA and UEFA are quiet. Why? Say something, do something ffs

But Infantino saved football (and his own bank accpunt) by letting City and PSG off lightly

 

[Catt]

The idea of a new breakaway Super League is gaining support at an alarming rate.

I haven't looked much into it, but is the idea that the big teams will leave their domestic leagues behind?

 

[Andycoleno9]

The idea of a new breakaway Super League is gaining support at an alarming rate.

Meh, they just blackmail uefa for more money. It will not happen

 

[Adisa]

It goes against competition laws, freedom of enterprise laws and the ECJ allegedly warned the UEFA about it. The issue is simply that the UEFA don't want to go to court, the entire thing is ridiculous, PSG need to be audited ones again, the last time one said that everything was okay while an other said the opposite. According to UEFA rules, PSG will choose the third auditor while UEFA will pay the bill.

The UEFA is a shady organization, they will negotiate with PSG, City and every other wealthy clubs because they don't want any outsider to look from too close.

Agree with you that elements of FFP are illegal.
But I've been thinking. The Champions League is by invitation. Can't it be argued that a club has the right to issue invitations based on rules it wants to set?
I'm sure they wouldn't want to got through the hassle of finding out in court.
On a whole, I do think there's nothing much UEFA can do or wants to do here.

 

[Adisa]

You listen to Infantino and you realise City had UEFA by the bollocks and UEFA knew it.

 

[WensleyMU]

Can anyone link to the alleged warning over FFP? All I can find are largely supportive statements from the EU, EC and ECJ back in 2015, which are poster in a statement on Uefas own website.

 

[Random Task]

I haven't looked much into it, but is the idea that the big teams will leave their domestic leagues behind?

I don't know the details behind it, but I hear it being mentioned more and more lately.

 

[JPRouve]

Agree with you that elements of FFP are illegal.
But I've been thinking. The Champions League is by invitation. Can't it be argued that a club has the right to issue invitations based on rules it wants to set?
I'm sure they wouldn't want to got through the hassle of finding out in court.
On a whole, I do think there's nothing much UEFA can do or wants to do here.

The issue is that FFP as it is today allows market dominance which goes against EU competition laws. Ideally, UEFA wouldn't be the pet of the big clubs and would create an actual FFP system that would allow new comers to actually compete after a reasonable amount of time which isn't possible today, the only option is luck or sugar daddying.
Maybe mechanism like salary cap and capped annual wage bill increase, maybe even a transfer budget cap. But the current system is designed to prevent clubs from reaching the top and it also almost completely ignore the initial goal of financial prudence.

It also needs to be actually transparent.

Edit: Also in the leaks there is mention of Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona blackmailing the UEFA into funneling CL money toward them instead of smaller clubs.

 

[caid]

But FFP is only an element of this story. What about manipulation and fraud and deceit? What about money doping and falsely reporting wages, etc, etc. Often it’s the cover up that’s more egregious. Have you read the articles? As I said here before, I had a thread closed down in here earlier this year for calling them cheats.

Yeah, I've noticed you have to be careful how you phrase criticism of City. Which is pretty weird.

 

[Giggsyking]

Agree with this. Can't see the interest in the PL continue to rise.

It already falling. TV ratings are falling with a free fall.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Amnesty International comment:

Amnesty turns the heat up on ‘sportswashing’ Manchester City owners

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ter-city-amnesty-international-football-leaks

Fair play to amnesty and the journalist for this, rightly so and the least they can do. Forgive the pun city fans.