Ole and beyond - A modest critique of long term squad compatibility problems

Oo0AahCantona

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We have a squad of very good individuals across the board, arguably the best we've had in a decade, but we have some glaring gaps in the delta between the quality of assets we have on paper and how that translates to pretty much any modern requirement of any football systems we would feasibly play. this will continue to impact our ability to regain relevance regardless of manager at the wheel. The key takeaway here is looking at our squad without the transfer fee's attached.

Goalkeeper: The only complaint I have is we have too many outstanding keepers, and as a result we are overpaying on wages as Romero should have been let go. De Gea is getting back to his best, and his best is world class. Henderson has shown enough to provide a foot up De Gea's ass and Romero is an outstanding no.2 who would start at plenty of clubs. We should shed 100k off the wage bill here.

Fullback; It has become a modern day requirement of fullbacks to be an offensive presence in pretty much every system imaginable, in some ways they are THE most important element of your transition to attack. If your playing with wingers, the fullbacks provide overlap to draw defenders away and to provide a crossing outlet if the winger is unable to beat a man, this is almost universal. We have 3 First team fullbacks on the books as I see it with Diego Dalot on loan. Luke Shaw, AWB and Alex Telles. Luke shaw post injury is a bit of a conundrum, he's a somewhat capable defender, but his final product has been missing for a while. We are pinning pretty much all our hopes of Alex telles continuing his offensive form on the left at this point with Shaw as a no.2. Now for the controversy, AWB is a world class defender, absolutely outstanding, and has a big future at the club. But i think his lack of an offensive output is a huge handicap for the entire team, unless he is able to drastically improve in this area in the future, we have a big big problem here as our attacks down the right have become insanely easy to defend against. it might come to a situation where he may have to become a "big game" role player, man marking your neymars/mbapps out of games. We need an offensive rightback in the squad Tariq lamptey would be absolutely sensational in this capacity for example.

Centerback: Big oof here. I dont really know what to say i dont fancy any of our CB options in comparison to our competition. Harry maguire is a decent defender, albiet with big flaws in his athleticism that then has to be compensated for with both his partner in defence and also in midfield, its a big handicap once again. Lindelof feels like a 3rd choice option, he's not bad, but he isn't outstanding in any area of the game and feels like there's always a mistake in him. Jones/Rojo/Bailly are virtually irrelevant to the conversation because they could be world class in every way, but they are too injury prone to be depended upon unfortunately, need to be replaced. The one ray of hope here is Axel Tuanzebe, if he can get a run of games in the team, and can stay fit, has all the attributes to be a mainstay in our defence for the next decade. Overall, we need 2 additions here after the offloading of rojo/jones/bailly. I dont have any recommendations here as the quality of defenders has become really hard to judge nowadays.

Midfield: Once again we have a selection of incredible individual players here, albiet most with Huge downsides that hurt the team. We dont have a single "Complete" player of any level of quality in this position and as a result the combination of players we have to play has become immensely important. I view Matic/fred/Mctree as our more defensive midfielders, Matic is getting on, and as a result cant be looked at for long term planning but is arguably our best player here currently. Fred is an amazing player but doesn't have a passing range to play by himself and Mctomminay isn't good enough. We need a complete midfielder to partner with fred and compensate for his passing, the player we thought pogba would be for us, and we need a replacement for Mctominay for rotation. Im not sure what players are available in the mould of a Veratti who can make an instant impact.

Offensively we have arguably one of the Best selections of attacking midfielders in the world, Pogba becomes less of a liability here and can start to influence games, Bruno has had the best impact ive seen on a team since RVP signed and mata continues to age like a fine wine and is a capable squad player. DVB has come in and hasn't really had a chance yet. We are fine in this position, with the only question being do we need pogba considering the depth we already have for 1 or 2 at a push slots in a teamsheet, or could we use his sale to improve other areas of the squad that need addressing.

Forwards: We are stacked for strikers, Rashford/martial/greenwood/cavani is beyond good enough, the only question is we don't have a single winger of quality should we want to use a system that uses them. James needs to go as soon as possible, the experiment has failed. We are going to want at least 2 wingers with pace who can beat a man or there's no point. Jadon Sancho has been the main target, but we have also signed 2 long term targets in this position that should be integrating into the team over the next 2/3 years.

What's clear to me is we have way too many players that have caveats to them, Pretty much every player in the spine of our team requires 1 or 2 other players to compensate for 1 glaring problem they have, we have very few complete players for their positions which means we get drastically different performances based on 1 or 2 variations of squad selection. I've never seen a team this swingy before, its a complete coinflip whether we are going to win 6-0 or lose 2-0 based on 1 or 2 changes in the team even within the same system, that have huge compensatory ramifications across the entire 11.

To illustrate this ill give you 2 starting 11's in the same system with 2 changes.

-----------------------De Gea--------------------------------------------------------De Gea
----AWB---Maguire---Lindelof---Shaw--------------AWB-----Maguire--------Lindelof------shaw
-----------------Fred-------Matic-----------------------------------------------Fred--------Mctominnay---------
Greenwood---Bruno--------Rashford-------------------James--------Bruno----------Rashford----
---------------------Martial-----------------------------------------------------------Martial----------------------------


1 starting 11 that has matic and fred together and lets say, greenwood on the right. but the next game Mctomminay comes in for matic and James comes in for greenwood, the entire team falls apart at the seams because suddenly without matic the teams transition from defence to attack breaks down because Mctominay cant compensate for freds passing like matic can, and most likely leads to maguire bringing the ball forward from deep which creates gaps at the back and an ineffective overload at DM as Mctominay cant join the attack effectively when maguire moves up. Furthermore, in the first 11 Greenwood, whilst not a winger, at least has the capacity to attack the box from the right hand side and can take a man on or provide a credible threat from the wing which compensates for AWB having to provide an offensive outlet as he only needs to occupy a space as a short passing option. With james replacing greenwood, there is no player on the right hand side who is a credible threat, which means the defence doesn't have to switch a man over to cover for AWB to the same extent they would have to do if Greenwood or maybe a sancho would command, which means there is more defenders to mark martial or pushing out to Bruno Fernandez to shut down the attack.

The same thing happens in other formations with other players, but it is a systematic problem across the squad that doesn't seem to have an answer at the moment, regardless of manager.
 

Foxbatt

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All these players can be made better than they are now by coaching them properly and training them.
What our defenders lack is positional awareness. This is something that can be taught. Crossing is something that can be practiced. Can they be made into better team players? Absolutely.
Can we play a system that suits the players we have? Absolutely. Can we beat teams that sit back? Absolutely with better tactics and coaching.
 
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All these players can be made better than they are now by coaching them properly and training them.
What our defenders lack is positional awareness. This is something that can be taught. Crossing is something that can be practiced. Can they be made into better team players? Absolutely.
Can we play a system that suits the players we have? Absolutely. Can we beat teams that sit back? Absolutely with better tactics and coaching.
Oh right, what are the training session currently like at Carrington?
 

Samrat Mazumdar

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All these players can be made better than they are now by coaching them properly and training them.
What our defenders lack is positional awareness. This is something that can be taught. Crossing is something that can be practiced. Can they be made into better team players? Absolutely.
Can we play a system that suits the players we have? Absolutely. Can we beat teams that sit back? Absolutely with better tactics and coaching.
Will Ole and the "coaching staff" do it, that is the question
 

bosnian_red

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Yeah as has been said, players are good, squad is good and has the depth to play a variety of styles at a high level. We lack quality classic wingers if someone wanted to go down that route, but thats about it. With Telles we have a lot more versatility now. We are bad at coaching off the ball movement and a style of play that will progress the ball up the pitch smoothly. The only manager we've hired post Sir Alex who knew how to coach a style of play to progress up the pitch was Van Gaal, but unfortunately there he also obsessed about possession and never wanted to actually create chances (and our squad was all over the place).

Get a manager who can coach the team properly, we'll compete for trophies. The squad is quality right now, of course not perfect (no squad is), but is very good and good enough to compete for big trophies with the right manager. Ole has done well, but so did Rodgers for Liverpool. Didn't stop them replacing him with Klopp when they had the chance, and shouldn't stop us replacing Ole with Pochettino because that's what we need to take the next step.
 

fps

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I completely agree with the assessment that we lack players who lack glaring weaknesses, especially in midfield.
 

croadyman

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Yeah as has been said, players are good, squad is good and has the depth to play a variety of styles at a high level. We lack quality classic wingers if someone wanted to go down that route, but thats about it. With Telles we have a lot more versatility now. We are bad at coaching off the ball movement and a style of play that will progress the ball up the pitch smoothly. The only manager we've hired post Sir Alex who knew how to coach a style of play to progress up the pitch was Van Gaal, but unfortunately there he also obsessed about possession and never wanted to actually create chances (and our squad was all over the place).

Get a manager who can coach the team properly, we'll compete for trophies. The squad is quality right now, of course not perfect (no squad is), but is very good and good enough to compete for big trophies with the right manager. Ole has done well, but so did Rodgers for Liverpool. Didn't stop them replacing him with Klopp when they had the chance, and shouldn't stop us replacing Ole with Pochettino because that's what we need to take the next step.
We should do that but Woody loves just taking the cheap option when it comes to spending money,therefore Ole stays no matter how he performs because he is the club legend
 

Irwin99

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Seems so long since United had aggressive attacking full backs (Fergie's last season with Evra and Rafa?) that weren't either converted wingers or defensively sound but limited going forward :(
 

Foxbatt

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Oh right, what are the training session currently like at Carrington?
I have no idea. Either the players are refusing to accept what the coaches tell them or the coaches have to clue to coach at the top level. These are all International players who play differently when they play for their National teams or before they come to United or after they leave United. The common factor is United.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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All these players can be made better than they are now by coaching them properly and training them.
I have no idea. Either the players are refusing to accept what the coaches tell them or the coaches have to clue to coach at the top level. These are all International players who play differently when they play for their National teams or before they come to United or after they leave United. The common factor is United.
Whatever the training or the coaching is, these players are on the higher level than when they were under Mourinho. It means they did get much better than they were before. And some of them the young ones are still keep improving.
 

Foxbatt

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Whatever the training or the coaching is, these players are on the higher level than when they were under Mourinho. It means they did get much better than they were before. And some of them the young ones are still keep improving.
It has to be compared to the progress in other teams. If they are on a higher level they would not get beaten by smaller clubs so easily. Remember Jose won the EL, the League Cup and the 2nd place in the PL with 80 points. Unless Ole beats that he has not done better than Jose.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It has to be compared to the progress in other teams. If they are on a higher level they would not get beaten by smaller clubs so easily. Remember Jose won the EL, the League Cup and the 2nd place in the PL with 80 points. Unless Ole beats that he has not done better than Jose.
What you are saying is irrelevant to what we are discussing. We are discussing about players.

Rashford & Martial each of them hit 17 league goals last season, the best number and season they ever done. What does it tell you? Improvement, the became better players than before.

Fred was considered as flop and Jose wasn’t even interested to play him. And now he is part of the regular player under Ole. What does it tell you? Improvement, he became better players than before.

Apart from player being ageing or already in decline before Ole came, who became worse under Ole? No one.

Jose needed 300m net spend while Ole so far had 150m net spend. But somehow, people know we have better squad right now than before despite of the less net spend. Why? Because ever since Jose left and Ole came in, we improve the players which increase their value. People thought Jose was right about these players weren’t good enough, can’t be made better, should be moved on and now, after Ole came in, people now think that these same players are good enough and can be made better.
 

Footy van de Geek

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What you are saying is irrelevant to what we are discussing. We are discussing about players.

Rashford & Martial each of them hit 17 league goals last season, the best number and season they ever done. What does it tell you? Improvement, the became better players than before.

Fred was considered as flop and Jose wasn’t even interested to play him. And now he is part of the regular player under Ole. What does it tell you? Improvement, he became better players than before.

Apart from player being ageing or already in decline before Ole came, who became worse under Ole? No one.

Jose needed 300m net spend while Ole so far had 150m net spend. But somehow, people know we have better squad right now than before despite of the less net spend. Why? Because ever since Jose left and Ole came in, we improve the players which increase their value. People thought Jose was right about these players weren’t good enough, can’t be made better, should be moved on and now, after Ole came in, people now think that these same players are good enough and can be made better.
Martial scored 17 goals under LvG as a 19/20 year old. Rashford was more clinical under LvG than Mourinho. Basically, Mourinho was terrible for those two. Still questions over Martial's overall work ethic and mentality for me, but Mourinho was very harsh towards him.

I don't think Ole has necessarily improved them. More like given them a platform to regain the form that saw them contend (Rashford) or win (Martial) The Golden Boy award.

Lingard has regressed under Ole and so has De Gea (started under Mourinho tbf).
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Martial scored 17 goals under LvG as a 19/20 year old. Rashford was more clinical under LvG than Mourinho. Basically, Mourinho was terrible for those two. Still questions over Martial's overall work ethic and mentality for me, but Mourinho was very harsh towards him.

I don't think Ole has necessarily improved them. More like given them a platform to regain the form that saw them contend (Rashford) or win (Martial) The Golden Boy award.

Lingard has regressed under Ole and so has De Gea (started under Mourinho tbf).
Martial scored 23 goals and 12 assists last season. That’s better than 17 goals and 9 assists under LVG.

Not sure where is this being clinical about Rashford. Last season, Rashford had 22 goals and 11 assists in 44 games. That’s more clinical in goals (0.5 goal per game) and better end product than Rashford under LVG with 8 goals (0.4 goals per game) and 2 assists in 18 games.

Both of them hit 15 league goals plus last season, that’s a new level they stepped up compare to LVG. The point still stands though, those players were written off by Mourinho and lot of people (including non-United fans) questioned them being good enough or no.

Lingard has already regressed before Ole came. He’s a 3 months wonder season.
 
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Foxbatt

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Jose has written of lots of players and then they go and become top class players. Martial was so talented that we paid over the odds for him at his age. Jose is not known at least of late to develop players. He likes players who are developed already. It doesn't mean that Ole is capable of developing players like a top class manager like Klopp, Pep, Rose, Beilsa, Naggelsman does. He has not proven himself to do it yet.
 

Footy van de Geek

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Martial scored 23 goals and 12 assists last season. That’s better than 17 goals and 9 assists under LVG. Not many players can score 15 plus league goals and Martial did it last season, his first time.

Not sure where is this being clinical about Rashford. Last season, Rashford had 22 goals and 11 assists in 44 games. That’s more clinical in goals (0.5 goal per game) and better end product than Rashford under LVG with 8 goals (0.4 goals per game) and 2 assists in 18 games.

Lingard has already regressed before Ole came. He’s a 3 months wonder season.
More impressive from a 19/20 year old rookie in a new country. 6 extra goals is hardly anything to shout about from a now experienced 24 year old. Ole hasn't taken Martial close to Balon d'Or level, which he has a clause for.

Again, an increase of 0.1 is nothing to shout about. More impressive from an 18 year old in his first 3 months of senior football.

They're not putting up elite wide forward numbers. Much better than under Mourinho, but the numbers under LvG are more impressive given their ages at the time. I think Rashford could become what Sterling is for City under an elite coach. 25+ goals a season. Maybe even 30 odd goals some seasons. Martial won't ever become an elite striker at this stage, I don't think. 25 next month. These next 3-4 years should be his prime. Ole has basically let them return to the parth they were on under LvG. Mourinho was bad for the both of them.

Lingard had a very good 2017/2018 campaign. No doubt about it. Ole had high hopes for him when he first took over. Between possibly believing the hype after a decent showing for England at The World Cup and family issues off the pitch, Ole hasn't been able to get him back to the level he showed when we finished 2nd.

De Gea is only beginning to show some form after almost 2 years under Ole. Never dropped him once during that time.
 

Oranges038

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Is the coaching and player development all down to Ole?
Ultimately whether the teams wins or loses. The responsibility for that falls on him.

I look at the coaching staff under Ole, 4 first team coaches and Mike Phelan as assistant manager.

Michael Carrick
Kieran McKenna
Mark Dempsey
Martyn Pert

Surely, these guys have a role to play in training every day. Are they not involved in training and development? Should they not be able to help players identify and improve on weaknesses in their game? slSo that issues such as needing players to compensate for anothers weakness can be resolved. I don't think you should ever have to play a player in order to compensate for another, players should compliment each other on the pitch. They should understand each other's game.

The players have responsibility to want to learn and improve also. Some of these guys have either been inconsistant and patchy in terms of form or under performed under 3, 4 and even 5 managers at this stage De Gea, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Smalling to name a few.

One of the reasons I think this squad haven't been able to gel properly is because it's such a mixed bag of players from different managers. Each had different styles and brought in or favoured the players to suit their style.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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More impressive from a 19/20 year old rookie in a new country. 6 extra goals is hardly anything to shout about from a now experienced 24 year old. Ole hasn't taken Martial close to Balon d'Or level, which he has a clause for.

Again, an increase of 0.1 is nothing to shout about. More impressive from an 18 year old in his first 3 months of senior football.

They're not putting up elite wide forward numbers. Much better than under Mourinho, but the numbers under LvG are more impressive given their ages at the time. I think Rashford could become what Sterling is for City under an elite coach. 25+ goals a season. Maybe even 30 odd goals some seasons. Martial won't ever become an elite striker at this stage, I don't think. 25 next month. These next 3-4 years should be his prime. Ole has basically let them return to the parth they were on under LvG. Mourinho was bad for the both of them.

Lingard had a very good 2017/2018 campaign. No doubt about it. Ole had high hopes for him when he first took over. Between possibly believing the hype after a decent showing for England at The World Cup and family issues off the pitch, Ole hasn't been able to get him back to the level he showed when we finished 2nd.

De Gea is only beginning to show some form after almost 2 years under Ole. Never dropped him once during that time.
I could also say the same thing about Greenwood being 17/18 years old player to scored 17 goals and 5 assists under Ole’s man management is even more impressive than what Rashford and Martial did in their first United season under LVG.

At the end of the day, your point about LVG is irrelevant to what we are discussing about Ole. What relevant is the number and the number shows that both Martial & Rashford evolved as a player

LVG did good in starting to develop Rash & Martial, but Ole also did good making them evolved to level they never reach before and those two haven’t shown a sign to stop improving or become better player under Ole.

You can’t tell me that they cannot become better under Ole than 19/20 season when clearly Rashford just scored his hattrick last week, and so far in 20/21, he has 7 goals and 2 assists in 10 games.

Lingard had ‘’3 months’’ of 17/18 very good campaign. Look at Rashford & Martial under Ole, that’s what I call a proper very good campaign not some sort of 3 months wonder season.

DDG has already regressed under Mourinho, you have admitted this so why are you still trying to argue and put this into discussion?

I don’t see the point putting DDG into this but if you insist then let me tell you something, this season DDG has been very good and some people even mentioned he regains his world class form again. So credit to Ole’s man management again.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY

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Jose has written of lots of players and then they go and become top class players. Martial was so talented that we paid over the odds for him at his age. Jose is not known at least of late to develop players. He likes players who are developed already. It doesn't mean that Ole is capable of developing players like a top class manager like Klopp, Pep, Rose, Beilsa, Naggelsman does. He has not proven himself to do it yet.
Rashford, Martial, Fred, Scott and more players especially the young ones. All of these and some of them have shown sign development, improvement and being evolved to the new level.

You jumped into conclusion about Ole can’t make them better like what other coaches do, but the 20/21 season isn’t even in mid season or end season. Rashford just scored his hattrick last week, and so far in 20/21, he has 7 goals and 2 assists in 10 games. It shows that he’s still improving and can still become even better in 20/21 than 19/20 under Ole’s man management.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Moyes have the excuse of declined old top players in his disposals and didn't know how to build a new top squad.
LVG inherited that and then bizarrely added more shit players than good, while destroying the good players in the process.
Mourinho finally put more good players in but actively ruining it and don't know how to use them, gave up in the end by throwing kiddish tantrums.

And now Ole inherited that squad filled with many good players and added more in... and yet we're still struggling. Honestly the current squad have so many good players with strong depth (of course there are still few patches left especially RW and CBs). Manager couldn't get the best out of this squad is just depressing to watch. At least the next manager (if happen) will not have the lame excuse of inheriting shit squad from the very start.

It's as if it's not the players that are actually the problems... but more so the...

If managers of shit teams can get the most out of their actually shit players on a more consistent basis, or top managers from top teams turning shit players into improved suddenly-good players, then you have to wonder what is the real problems. We can't always blame Ed and co for the terrible on-pitch performances - they only affect contracts, and players in/out, nothing else.


As for OP, not just the system being the problem (which can be rectified with good tactical instructions and ballsy decisions makings by manager), but also the coaching aspects of it, which is generally poor that lead to many players getting worse and worse. Fred is still the Fred of last season before the restart. Rashford and Greenwood are always in upward curve (Rash improved in Mourinho mind). Mag and AWB are still the same as last season, zero improvements, as does Shaw, Lindelof, etc. Bruno, James and Ighalo are getting worse, as does Pogba. De Gea managed to patch his mistakes-making bug, and that's it, the only improvement. Martial improved but signs seems to point out that post-lockdown form is purple patch? stats showed that playing Martial more and the goals he scored will naturally rise, so that's the key difference, hardly surprising, his transition to be better CF is a nice surprise which took more than half a year, but now this season, he's still showing the old Martial.

Performances on pitch and bad form definitely can give the impressions that the players are the same - shit. Maybe we should focus more on actually improving them with better coaching and system, than replacing (bar some players who clearly are deadwood) or blaming them with labels of "shit players".
 

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Centerback: Big oof here. I dont really know what to say i dont fancy any of our CB options in comparison to our competition. Harry maguire is a decent defender, albiet with big flaws in his athleticism that then has to be compensated for with both his partner in defence and also in midfield, its a big handicap once again. Lindelof feels like a 3rd choice option, he's not bad, but he isn't outstanding in any area of the game and feels like there's always a mistake in him. Jones/Rojo/Bailly are virtually irrelevant to the conversation because they could be world class in every way, but they are too injury prone to be depended upon unfortunately, need to be replaced. The one ray of hope here is Axel Tuanzebe, if he can get a run of games in the team, and can stay fit, has all the attributes to be a mainstay in our defence for the next decade. Overall, we need 2 additions here after the offloading of rojo/jones/bailly. I dont have any recommendations here as the quality of defenders has become really hard to judge nowadays.

Midfield: Once again we have a selection of incredible individual players here, albiet most with Huge downsides that hurt the team. We dont have a single "Complete" player of any level of quality in this position and as a result the combination of players we have to play has become immensely important. I view Matic/fred/Mctree as our more defensive midfielders, Matic is getting on, and as a result cant be looked at for long term planning but is arguably our best player here currently. Fred is an amazing player but doesn't have a passing range to play by himself and Mctomminay isn't good enough. We need a complete midfielder to partner with fred and compensate for his passing, the player we thought pogba would be for us, and we need a replacement for Mctominay for rotation. Im not sure what players are available in the mould of a Veratti who can make an instant impact.

Offensively we have arguably one of the Best selections of attacking midfielders in the world, Pogba becomes less of a liability here and can start to influence games, Bruno has had the best impact ive seen on a team since RVP signed and mata continues to age like a fine wine and is a capable squad player. DVB has come in and hasn't really had a chance yet. We are fine in this position, with the only question being do we need pogba considering the depth we already have for 1 or 2 at a push slots in a teamsheet, or could we use his sale to improve other areas of the squad that need addressing.
Think you hit the nail on the head here and imo these are our biggest problems. Maguire is a competent CB, good tackling ability, good positioning, very good in the air although slow as molasses. Lindelof constantly gets into trouble against athletic attackers and despite having a reputation as a smooth, ball playing CB he often panics when pressed and makes a lot of dangerous errors on the ball.

The biggest problem though is central midfield. Fred when he first got here looked like a fish out water. He now looks twice the player, but i think that has lead to us overrating him quite a lot and i would not describe him as amazing. No doubt he is a competent tackler with a great engine and then looks great when we are the underdogs, but his ability on the ball is really quite poor and generally he contributes very little to our build up play. 1 goal and 1 assist in the PL in 51 appearances says it all really. McTomminay is the same as Fred only slightly worse off the ball and slightly more of a goal threat, but is he any good though? I love his attitude and get the feeling hes a bit of a fan darling because of his roots and work ethic, but is he really a class PL midfielder? No imo. Not even close

Mata and Matic are very different players, but has the same issue, they are in the twilight of their careers and cant be relied upon to play regularly. Both are/were class players with a lot of ability and plenty of footballing intelligence, but their athleticism is not what it used to be and they tend to struggle in high tempo games. Pogba i feel everything has already been said. Has the talent but completely lacks the application and more often than not its like playing with 10 men when hes starting. DvB has played so little its hard to say, but hes also shown what it looks like when you have a clever CM whos good on the ball

Bruno, our talisman, is undoubtedly class, but is he world class? Before he got here he played in Udinese, Sampdoria and Sporting without really making the biggest waves in world football. He was POTY in Portugal in 2018 so undoubtedly a good player, but its not like we had to fight off several other big clubs for his signature. He gets here and he instantly becomes one of our best players and shows up pretty much every other midfield player we got despite being here far shorter. Bruno is great, but hes not the best midfielder in the world and i think he illustrates how we have overrated our other midfield players.

Bruno aside, would any of our other midfielders get into the starting XI of City? Liverpool? Leicester? Spurs? Chelsea? Arsenal?

In every bad game this season (and there has been quite a few) we have lost the "midfield battle". For the most part we have managed to contain the other sides and keep them from creating too many chances, but we also created very little for our own forwards and pretty much all of the creative responsibility has been put on Bruno and the forwards.

Our forward line is good. Best in the league? No, but top 6 for sure

Generally though, i think we have a good squad with quite a bit of depth now, but quite a few of these players are quite overrated by our own fans.
 

Footy van de Geek

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I could also say the same thing about Greenwood being 17/18 years old player to scored 17 goals and 5 assists under Ole’s man management is even more impressive than what Rashford and Martial did in their first United season under LVG.

At the end of the day, your point about LVG is irrelevant to what we are discussing about Ole. What relevant is the number and the number shows that both Martial & Rashford evolved as a player

LVG did good in starting to develop Rash & Martial, but Ole also did good making them evolved to level they never reach before and those two haven’t shown a sign to stop improving or become better player under Ole.

You can’t tell me that they cannot become better under Ole than 19/20 season when clearly Rashford just scored his hattrick last week, and so far in 20/21, he has 7 goals and 2 assists in 10 games.

Lingard had ‘’3 months’’ of 17/18 very good campaign. Look at Rashford & Martial under Ole, that’s what I call a proper very good campaign not some sort of 3 months wonder season.

DDG has already regressed under Mourinho, you have admitted this so why are you still trying to argue and put this into discussion?

I don’t see the point putting DDG into this but if you insist then let me tell you something, this season DDG has been very good and some people even mentioned he regains his world class form again. So credit to Ole’s man management again.
:lol:

I was going to reply with a proper response, but no point when someone is that far gone. It's clear where you stand on Ole.

It would take De Gea at least 6 months of consistent form to even be considered a top GK. And a least a season, if not two, of top displays to make up for 2 horrendous ones.

But cheers for standing by him, Ole. Where would we be without your cowardice. :D
 

passing-wind

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I agree Ole should be doing more with this team. The team is poorly coached and there's two massive influences that reinstate this fact, the standard of football is poor and there's a massive lack of consistency. It's all to do with the foundation the team has to build upon. We are continually relying on individual brilliance as opposed to team oriented movement to open up spaces. I'm not going to conclude that Solskjaer is a bad manager but he is bad for the level of progression needed for us to excel. For the first time since SAF retired we now have the best squad of players in years and he is massively underachieving.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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:lol:

I was going to reply with a proper response, but no point when someone is that far gone. It's clear where you stand on Ole.

It would take De Gea at least 6 months of consistent form to even be considered a top GK. And a least a season, if not two, of top displays to make up for 2 horrendous ones.

But cheers for standing by him, Ole. Where would we be without your cowardice. :D

When you brought up DDG discussion twice to the argument it was already not a proper discussion, you already admitted yourself that he has already regressed under Mourinho and yet still talking about it. You are just adding unnecessary argument witho no purpose. You brought it up initially, I ignored it and of course you would get a stupid response when you brought up the same stupid irrelevant discussion to the argument for the 2nd time.

Try to focus on what you originally spoke about Rashford & Martial not DDG.