It is quite weird as I think he looked better than he has done for years at the start of the season. I suppose Van De Beek has taken his place on the bench.
Ole freezing out Juan Mata | He didn’t, Juan’s mother has just passed, RIP.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I don't think mata would have solved our issues today, but he is an option for sure. Im not sure why we need Tellea and Williams on the bench, he should have taken Williams spot. Either way, a double pivot and casual defending lost us the points today.
Martial is currently in the worst form of his career and has been all season.100% sure he'd definitely contribute more than Martial. That itself giving us more chance to win.
So, I'm not sure how some think that Mata wouldn't make any difference, while diminishing different opinion with such confidence.
He's still exceeding Mata's productivity per 90 minutes (goals + assists) for the last three seasons
Mata isn't a world beater, but Ole as well doesn't use the squad available to him at all. Looks me he trusts a group of players and doesn't want to try anything new or different.
There’s no one looking for Mata starting week in week out but he’s still good enough to be named on the bench especially in games with poorer teams with defensive setups
I saw him stuck in a gate over Christmas, maybe he's still there.
I think Ole made it clear with the Alexis Sanchez situation that he won't pick a player he doesn't really want. (apparently)
Which I found to be a baffling management. He should benefit from every player in such a big squad but it seems like any player he doesn't fancy gets frozen till he leaves.
He's not the first and will not be the last manager to do it though
Fergie apparently didn't want Beckham anymore in 2003 and gave the green light for the Madrid transfer for example.
I can remember Mourinho criticizing Shaw and Martial aswell.
Never fails. Mata plays and the caf goes bonkers over him being selected over Greenwood or Martial. Mata is a great professional but not what we need.
Ole has his favourites and then there’s the rest of the squad - were definitely not using our squad depth but until a few weeks ago we were flying so let’s see how we end the season. It doesn’t look great though.
Issue for me is more broad - it’s the insistence to start McFred against even the weakest of teams. The few times we’ve really gone after teams we’ve looked great and we really only needed one CM to sit deep today, half the game was played probing around their box.
Issue for me is more broad - it’s the insistence to start McFred against even the weakest of teams. The few times we’ve really gone after teams we’ve looked great and we really only needed one CM to sit deep today, half the game was played probing around their box.
He should be ahead of James and even Martial, and at least make it to the bench today. But Ole thought plan A will work and just need more defenders to shut it out in the later stage. Don't understand what Ole is thinking.
So he got new contract under him but now people think that Ole iz freezing him out, hope Ole takes % of that contract then.
It is strange that he's not even making the bench in a game where we have four defenders there.
Feels like something is going on behind the scenes either with Mata himself or Ole feels he has to make a point to Ed/Glazers that he needs new attackers bought and having poor quality squad options like Mata (and Lingard before him) isn't the answer.
Feels like something is going on behind the scenes either with Mata himself or Ole feels he has to make a point to Ed/Glazers that he needs new attackers bought and having poor quality squad options like Mata (and Lingard before him) isn't the answer.
He hasn't this season! (just... but still)Martial is currently in the worst form of his career and has been all season.
He's still exceeding Mata's productivity per 90 minutes (goals + assists) for the last three seasons
Correct. I was being naughty by leaving out this season
.It's an astonishing stat though, and one that highlights just how shite Mata has been for ages now. Even at his peak he was never the kind of player who controlled a game, all about the end product. That's long gone now.
I think the writing is on the wall considering he didn't even make the bench in our FA Cup game. Kind of weird considering he was our player of the month for September. Like the OP I also think there is still a place for him in the squad and that he is perfect for teams who play a low block where passing and movement is more important than speed.
In my opinion, Mata is better option than VDB. Mata at least would be pinging balls into the box that Cavani might actually get on the end of. Is a starter? No. Does he still have a tool set that we can use in breaking teams down? Yes.
Apparently the rumours are rife on twitter that Ole has washed his hands of Mata as he continually only hugs Phelan and Mckenna upon arrival to training each morning.
Ole just needs some one on one time with our cuddly Spaniard.
Ole just needs some one on one time with our cuddly Spaniard.
Players become so much better when they’re out the team
I am glad we finally have a manager who is willing to ruthlessly cut the deadwood.
Mata is a nice guy and produces his moments, but we want to play a high tempo game and Mata cannot do that. He can't play under pressure because he can no longer get away from his man and has to play the easy pass every time, for a defending player you can close him aggressively as there's no risk of him taking you on or turning you anymore, and when he plays we are a man down defensively as opponents run round him like he's not there. Playing the occasional nice through ball is not going to offset all that.
Mata is a nice guy and produces his moments, but we want to play a high tempo game and Mata cannot do that. He can't play under pressure because he can no longer get away from his man and has to play the easy pass every time, for a defending player you can close him aggressively as there's no risk of him taking you on or turning you anymore, and when he plays we are a man down defensively as opponents run round him like he's not there. Playing the occasional nice through ball is not going to offset all that.
The main reason I want to see him in the types of games (sheffield united, West Brom etc) is because he could bring something different when we are playing around the box, compared to what we currently do.
We seem to be so predictable with a million passes around their box, with little penetration. Hes the slowest guy in the team, but he's very good at making a bit of space and linking play with the forwards. I'm not saying this would be a guarantee, but it could be a gamechanger when we simply struggle breaking through 9 men in the box
We seem to be so predictable with a million passes around their box, with little penetration. Hes the slowest guy in the team, but he's very good at making a bit of space and linking play with the forwards. I'm not saying this would be a guarantee, but it could be a gamechanger when we simply struggle breaking through 9 men in the box
Or if they move to West Ham
Isn't that a problem though? We have all these attackers who are basically clones of each other (Speed and dribbling) that when it comes to breaking teams down we struggle? Wouldn't it be useful to bring something different on when teams sit in and this tactic doesn't really work?
I'm all for Ole getting rid of deadwood too... but it makes no sense when we're putting 4 defenders on the bench. Hell Jesse Lingard would be useful to have on the bench in that scenario.
Also the last bold bit just isn't true.... Mata is probably one of the most diligent wingers we have in terms of working hard and tracking back.
Mata and Lingard are 100% on the list of players who are not good enough and need to be moved on. That list also includes Jones, Pereira etc...
You can’t complain about a lack of new signings and investment if these types of players are kept. There needs to be a bit more ruthlessness about the club and it starts by getting rid of those that aren’t good enough to be here.
You can’t complain about a lack of new signings and investment if these types of players are kept. There needs to be a bit more ruthlessness about the club and it starts by getting rid of those that aren’t good enough to be here.
Because it's super easy to pretend you know better than the manager and had we played X we would have won. A statement that cannot be disproved. Genius.
You can have players who have better vision and passing but they all need to play at the same tempo or the whole thing breaks down. Players like VDB, whilst he hasn't shown anything special yet, can at least play at the right tempo. From what i've seen Mata no longer can.
The last bit is true. He works hard no doubt, but there's no getting away from his lack of pace. By the time he gets back to defend the attack is over.
It's gone when he doesn't offer great passes and crosses and he's done both this season. To actually suggest he's shite is stupid especially when there are players who either under perform consistently or who just aren't PL quality. Pundits, including Keane and Scholes, have rated him this season. I think they might know a bit about United midfield.Correct. I was being naughty by leaving out this season
It's an astonishing stat though, and one that highlights just how shite Mata has been for ages now. Even at his peak he was never the kind of player who controlled a game, all about the end product. That's long gone now.
Against a low block side Mata's strengths are obvious to anyone and his weaknesses become irrelevant.
Not a reason to keep him much longer, but while still here it is daft not to use him.
Not a reason to keep him much longer, but while still here it is daft not to use him.
Not completely true.
Mata has had his fans (including me) who like the idea of him coming off the bench. This is not an opinion made in last 2 months or so.
He is still smart and can make very intelligent decisions which create chances. While it is not a given that it will be effective, I don't see any reason why it was not worth the try. But then there is the little problem that Ole may wait for the 85th min to get him in, which will be a huge waste of time for everyone.
This is one of those where we have to trust the management. There's clearly something not right and they know better than we ever will. But anyways, it's Juan Mata we're talking about. I highly doubt he would have changed our recent fortunes.
No one's claiming Mata is some indispensable member of the squad for what it's worth.
The point people are making is that Mata offers a skillset that not many players, if any, have in the side. Mata's strengths is short, intricate passing and movement. He's also one of the only players who prefers playing 1-2s. Literally all these qualities are what is needed to break down low blocks.
I'm a Mata fan, but I don't mind him getting sold provided we sign someone who can offer us what he does. We thought VDB can, and maybe he still can, but he's playing at a different wavelength right now.
He is also on something like 8 million a year, can’t run and is about as strong as my 7 year old.
In which case, negotiate the wages or sign someone who can help in opening up low blocks. If you're paying him this much, atleast play him in those games where it's obvious as day that he'd have a good game
If we're playing this idiotic game, Mata's manager has been watching him train every day and still doesn't let him anywhere near the pitch against "PL quality" opposition. I think he might know a bit about United midfield.
Saying he's "offered great passes and crosses" is a very vague (and stupid - literally everyone has done it at some point, Dan James got some lovely assists last year too) way of saying he's got two assists in the league this year. Which, in fairness to him, is as many as he got in the whole of last season, both of them in one game. Against the bottom team.
He's shite.
So is your optician.
When the idiotic "X says he's good so you're an idiot" argument turns out to work even better in reverse against you, get the playground comebacks out.
Jog on.
Jog on.
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The few times i have watched the Mata - Bruno link, iv'e liked it! Hope we get to see it again!
'twas ever thus.
Who was it that said, "it was amazing how much better I always was when I was injured"?
I think it was Andy Townsend. Probably the wisest thing he ever said, from a very short list.
I agree that someone like that is needed, but we have two threads now decrying Lingard/Mata exclusion when both are seriously below the quality needed while taking up valuable wages in the squad.
The club is getting too soft. One of the best things Ole is doing is cutting away all the deadweight. We can’t be sentimental just because Mata is a nice guy and Lingard is a youth player.
Both haven’t been good enough when called upon and are overpaid. Isolating them from the first team and preparing for them to leave is the best move for all parties.
Absolutely, we need an attacker with more technical ability on the ball, but Mata, at this stage of his career, is far from the answer and is paid far too much money.
Its time to give his wage to someone else.