Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2019/20 Discussion

Flexdegea

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The problem we have is that even the positives are spun to be negatives under Ole. A lot of our players are playing quite a bit better than they did previously.

  • Rashford has gone up a level. He is now in the group of top strikers in this league. Europe even.
  • McTominay has vastly improved
  • Fred has gone from a collossal waste of money to a player that we can rely on
  • Martial is scoring and assisting and has a smile on his face
  • Greenwood and Williams are emerging and have been handled excellently
All of these things are real positives for this club, whatever happens. These positives have all happened under our current coaching staff, and there is no guarantee that any of this would have happened under different managers, but instead of giving any credit for this there are comments made that suggest they would be even better under a better coach. That we are actually hurting these players.

There is no doubt that I have been excessive in my defence of this mgmt sometimes, often because I'm so offended by the unfair and extreme criticism that they receive. I almost feel compelled to be a counter argument just to maintain some balance on here.

Any poster that was sensible enough to claim "there have been quite a few positives in the last 12 months, but I'm concerned that Ole hasn't shown enough tactical acumen to take us all the way" wouldn't be offensive. I could understand someone having that point of view.

This place has just been vicious though. Over the top. Every thread hijacked by it, and posters that have the nerve to still back this group and are willing to be patient are openly insulted. "Deluded" "a cult" "obvious WUMs" "brainwashed by Woodward" etc etc etc etc. Its created a massive divide that didn't need to be there.

The majority of the backers are here after every result. Keeping the faith, looking for positives. We always show up no matter what. It's not the same with everybody though. The post match threads after a good win are empty. People cant even bring themselves to congratulate the team or praise a player for playing well. They cant allow themselves to just enjoy it.

Beat Norwich - they are shit. Beat City away and Spurs - we can only play one way, a failure of the coaching staff. Beat Chelsea 4-0 - what about those chances they missed though. It was a lucky win. We were 5 minutes away from beating Liverpool. Zero credit for that. Never mentioned.

Lose to City however, and it's complete outrage. If as expected we lose to Liverpool, it will be the same. There is no perspective or balance to any of this. If we refuse praise because we are expected to beat Norwich, then the criticism should be equally muted because we are expected to lose to Liverpool or City right now. It wont be though. It's ironic that the people who call others deluded are themselves deluded enough to think that this squad is on that level right now.

The point of this post is to call for balance on here. If you are big enough to criticise then be big enough to call out a positive when you see it too. You can be Ole out and still be able to do that, and you can be Ole in and still criticise a performance.

Great post.


Couldnt have said it better.


Its extreme at the best of times, people just moaning basing of unrealistic expectations, expecting top performances eveey week, but in same week be alating the squad and players for not being at the required standard.
 

Denis79

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Like always it is not all black or white.

Pride, passion, love for the club... All the things he gets mocked out. They count, you know. You actually put your job in front of everything else. And I really believe he does that, so all of you with a cnut, Molde manager, out of his depth and so on are pretty much wrong. I mean, the man set up a better counter attack then Jose ever did. Which is pretty damning on Jose, but never mind. He also has players 100% behind him with his best player out of it for pretty much all season so far.

His structure, coaching and overall direction leaves a lot of question and am pretty sure that he is not the one to take us further in terms of an elite club. So, I hope board has a plan B in place already. I also hope they have another manager in mind as I think he can't turn us in force (hopefully wrong).

But, all the hysteria and paranoia are unwarranted. He will not set us years back. That much is clear.
Theese are pretty much my thoughts as well. Ole is getting some things very right but I feel he needs more experience, especially on the tactical/technical side of it, to be the person to take us at the absolute top again.
 

OleBoiii

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The problem we have is that even the positives are spun to be negatives under Ole. A lot of our players are playing quite a bit better than they did previously.

  • Rashford has gone up a level. He is now in the group of top strikers in this league. Europe even.
  • McTominay has vastly improved
  • Fred has gone from a collossal waste of money to a player that we can rely on
  • Martial is scoring and assisting and has a smile on his face
  • Greenwood and Williams are emerging and have been handled excellently
All of these things are real positives for this club, whatever happens. These positives have all happened under our current coaching staff, and there is no guarantee that any of this would have happened under different managers, but instead of giving any credit for this there are comments made that suggest they would be even better under a better coach. That we are actually hurting these players.

There is no doubt that I have been excessive in my defence of this mgmt sometimes, often because I'm so offended by the unfair and extreme criticism that they receive. I almost feel compelled to be a counter argument just to maintain some balance on here.

Any poster that was sensible enough to claim "there have been quite a few positives in the last 12 months, but I'm concerned that Ole hasn't shown enough tactical acumen to take us all the way" wouldn't be offensive. I could understand someone having that point of view.

This place has just been vicious though. Over the top. Every thread hijacked by it, and posters that have the nerve to still back this group and are willing to be patient are openly insulted. "Deluded" "a cult" "obvious WUMs" "brainwashed by Woodward" etc etc etc etc. Its created a massive divide that didn't need to be there.

The majority of the backers are here after every result. Keeping the faith, looking for positives. We always show up no matter what. It's not the same with everybody though. The post match threads after a good win are empty. People cant even bring themselves to congratulate the team or praise a player for playing well. They cant allow themselves to just enjoy it.

Beat Norwich - they are shit. Beat City away and Spurs - we can only play one way, a failure of the coaching staff. Beat Chelsea 4-0 - what about those chances they missed though. It was a lucky win. We were 5 minutes away from beating Liverpool. Zero credit for that. Never mentioned.

Lose to City however, and it's complete outrage. If as expected we lose to Liverpool, it will be the same. There is no perspective or balance to any of this. If we refuse praise because we are expected to beat Norwich, then the criticism should be equally muted because we are expected to lose to Liverpool or City right now. It wont be though. It's ironic that the people who call others deluded are themselves deluded enough to think that this squad is on that level right now.

The point of this post is to call for balance on here. If you are big enough to criticise then be big enough to call out a positive when you see it too. You can be Ole out and still be able to do that, and you can be Ole in and still criticise a performance.
I couldn't agree more. You could also add:
  • The players actually seem to care
  • Spot on with his transfers (all 3 signings have comfortably broken into our starting XI)
 

MrEarl

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Under the last five years of Woodwards "leadership United have out spent every other Premier League team except Manchester City. By comparison United spent £378 million compared to Liverpool's £92 million. And what do they have to show for it? In six years they have gone from first in the Premier League to sixth. But they are still ranked first when it comes to the size of their payroll. And Woodward's payoff for the job he's done is that he is ranked first in pay of any director in the Premier League.

If United fire Ole now, that would give the club six managers in six years. This is a club in freefall. It's hard to see a prestigious manager taking the United job with Woodward in charge.

In the last two transfer markets United's expenditures have seriously diminished. The net investment for the last year was £25 million when one takes into account the loss without replacement of Herrera. Is it possible the owners are using the same private equity tactics they used to buy the club with United's money? That would be stripping the assets for their personal benefit and leaving what remains for whoever gets to call themselves the new owners. Do they really have transfer money to spend? They may but I'd like to see the figures.

So how has Ole done? He was given a team to start the season with only one proven Premier league quality midfielder. Under his management McTominay and now apparently Fred have achieved Premier League quality. Other players have made significant improvements including Rashford, Martial, James, and Williams. That's a remarkable success rate for any manager.

People criticize Ole for tactics but what kind of flexibility does he have with literally no bench and a significant number of injuries with nobody qualified to fill in?

When the club is rebuilding is primarily through player development, Ole is well-qualified through his past work and has demonstrated his ability on the job. Keeping him gives a necessary measure of stability to a club in chaos. That chaos is not going to go away as long as Woodward is in charge. His track record speaks for itself. Einstein's definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing that fails expecting a different result.

I be interested to see somebody with an accounting background look at the balance sheet and see if United have funds to spend. They talk a big game about trying to sign Maddison and Grealish knowing they have zero chance of signing either one. Looks like a smokescreen to me.
 

Marcelinho87

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There’s been SO much to be happy with this season if you’ve wanted to.

Rashford has become one of the best talents in the world. We’ve not got two genuinely phenomenal young teenagers holding a place in the squad each week. Players such as McTominay and Fred have become cult heroes putting in great performances.

We’re managed by a top man who has made some great signings. We are higher in the league, with a lower age team and progressing further in the cups compared to when he was hired.

I understand people might think we can do better. But why do people use phrases like “clown” or talk about hating him. You just know they’re the same fans using names like “Trashford” or spending years laughing at Smalling and now pining for him back.

Supporting United can be so good. Get rid of your hostility and look for the positives. There are plenty.
Excellent post, fully agree.
 

Ventura

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Considering the state of us the last few years, the current state of the squad, the current state of midfield in particular, sitting in fifth right now is actually not too shabby. Of course we want more, but that will have to be longer term. It's taken years to get into this mess, and there is no quick way to fix it. Ole is working on the foundations of a future great team.
 
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If United fire Ole now, that would give the club six managers in six years. This is a club in freefall. It's hard to see a prestigious manager taking the United job with Woodward in charge.
Nothing like total made up bollocks to beef up your post.

It's been 6 years 6 months since David Moyes took charge as manager of Manchester United.

In 6 years 6 months we've had 4 managers. Hardly a fecking shambles, except that every single manager gets more time here than his performance has deserved (an average of around 20 months per manager). We're still a very patient club compared to pretty much anyone else in the league. I would have said "bar Arsenal" but even they have proven now that they will have less patience than us @Douglas Crockett.

Any manager worth his salt would think that United spend more than any club he's ever been at and give more time to managers than any other big club.
 

Di Maria's angel

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Constraints:
Time it takes to offload players
Time it takes to sign players
Time it takes to bring in youth
Time it takes for youth consistency
State of squad inherited
Injuries
Pogba and his strike/injury
Woody
The Glazers
Unreasonable impatient expectations of some fans

The two biggest being glazers/woody and time

Glazers and woody we have no control of apart from protest but time is something that fans can choose to give.
So basically almost every constrait every other manager will face in a job? I think you're forgetting it was Woody and the Glazers who showed faith in him and appointed him - in which way are they restricting him? Ridiculous made up nonsense. You also forget how the results have been terrible for an entire year and hes still in the job.
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean

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That City quote was Moyesey as feck.
I think it's what we get for hiring managers Ole and Moyes whose only experiences are managing low tier clubs. Shades of inferiority complex. The other two proven and accomplished managers we had - LVG and Mourinho displayed some inferiority complex. We should find a middle ground

I honestly think the squad and the kind of players we have are ripe for a modern progressive manager.
 

MrEarl

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Nothing like total made up bollocks to beef up your post.

It's been 6 years 6 months since David Moyes took charge as manager of Manchester United.

In 6 years 6 months we've had 4 managers. Hardly a fecking shambles, except that every single manager gets more time here than his performance has deserved (an average of around 20 months per manager). We're still a very patient club compared to pretty much anyone else in the league. I would have said "bar Arsenal" but even they have proven now that they will have less patience than us @Douglas Crockett.

Any manager worth his salt would think that United spend more than any club he's ever been at and give more time to managers than any other big club.
Yes but if you add SAF and the manager who would replace Ole, it adds up to six which is exactly the number of managers I claimed.

Why do you feel the need to insult somebody with whom you disagree? In this particular instance you were wrong. Somehow I don't think you'll be able to bring yourself to apologize for your error.
 

Bilbo

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Nothing like total made up bollocks to beef up your post.

It's been 6 years 6 months since David Moyes took charge as manager of Manchester United.

In 6 years 6 months we've had 4 managers. Hardly a fecking shambles, except that every single manager gets more time here than his performance has deserved (an average of around 20 months per manager). We're still a very patient club compared to pretty much anyone else in the league. I would have said "bar Arsenal" but even they have proven now that they will have less patience than us @Douglas Crockett.

Any manager worth his salt would think that United spend more than any club he's ever been at and give more time to managers than any other big club.
The two great periods of our clubs history have been from managers that were given time to rebuild the club. Obviously mentioning that will draw responses that we are comparing Ole with Ferguson and Busby, which is ridiculous, but it is still a fact nonetheless. We should want to give managers time to succeed, and its a credit to the club. Its part of our identity. We are in this mess largely because of the imbalance in the squad caused by changing managers.

Now does that mean we should stick with a dead duck just to make a point? No of course it doesn't. Ole is far from a dead duck however, no matter how much you to try to convince yourself that he is finished I think deep down everybody has to acknowledge that there is some credibility behind the thought that he is at least the right manager for this stage of our rebuild. If he can get this club back into the Champions League with the cards he has been dealt then it will be as good as season as anyone has had since Ferguson. Even if he doesn't, he deserves another crack at it with a deeper squad and a few more of the players he wants. No matter what happens from here, its highly likely that the club will be in a better position than it was when Mourinho left it.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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That City quote was Moyesey as feck.

That's a big problem for me. Ole as a player, was an underdog. Super-sub. The killer who came off the bench and sniped defences, as opposed to the main man starting the game. Ole the manager is also an underdog and constantly talks like one (well, since being made permanent he does - while he was auditioning for the role, he was all super confident in some of his statements).

An underdog manager can only take a club of our stature so far before he needs to hand over the reigns to a supremely confident, front-foot manager, in my opinion.
 

Bilbo

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Yes but if you add SAF and the manager who would replace Ole, it adds up to six which is exactly the number of managers I claimed.

Why do you feel the need to insult somebody with whom you disagree? In this particular instance you were wrong. Somehow I don't think you'll be able to bring yourself to apologize for your error.
You missed out Giggs too. The people that think we are not churning through managers are the ones that lose patience with them so quickly.
 

RUCK4444

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The two great periods of our clubs history have been from managers that were given time to rebuild the club. Obviously mentioning that will draw responses that we are comparing Ole with Ferguson and Busby, which is ridiculous, but it is still a fact nonetheless. We should want to give managers time to succeed, and its a credit to the club. Its part of our identity. We are in this mess largely because of the imbalance in the squad caused by changing managers.

Now does that mean we should stick with a dead duck just to make a point? No of course it doesn't. Ole is far from a dead duck however, no matter how much you to try to convince yourself that he is finished I think deep down everybody has to acknowledge that there is some credibility behind the thought that he is at least the right manager for this stage of our rebuild. If he can get this club back into the Champions League with the cards he has been dealt then it will be as good as season as anyone has had since Ferguson. Even if he doesn't, he deserves another crack at it with a deeper squad and a few more of the players he wants. No matter what happens from here, its highly likely that the club will be in a better position than it was when Mourinho left it.
People underestimate how much of a huge part this highlighted point has to play in our current mess.

People can argue against giving managers time but if every manager comes in and is handed a sack of shite as his squad, it takes more than one window to sift through that said sack of shite and piece together something that even begins to represent their football philosophy.

Whether people’s patience fits that fact or not frankly doesn’t matter, it will take as long as it takes.

People point to other managers putting their stamp on teams more quickly but every manager has a different starting position and if this United squad was an F1 car then we would have starting at the back of the grid.

As you mentioned, even if Ole isn’t the long term answer, he certainly is the right guy for this stage of the rebuild and will without doubt hand over a much more balanced squad for the next manager should he leave.
 

RUCK4444

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Plus I’m excited with what this summer could bring. We don’t have as many positions to fix so we can concentrate on specific signings for midfield in particular.

If we get what we need this summer then Ole will have done an excellent (and a ballsy) job of clearing a lot of dead wood and bringing in replacements over two summer windows.
 

Bilbo

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Plus I’m excited with what this summer could bring. We don’t have as many positions to fix so we can concentrate on specific signings for midfield in particular.

If we get what we need this summer then Ole will have done an excellent (and a ballsy) job of clearing a lot of dead wood and bringing in replacements over two summer windows.
Yep agreed. It makes my blood boil when fans on here call him a yes man, or someone having an easy job. In my view this guy has been given very likely his one and only shot at managing a big club and he has been brave enough to gut this squad and refuse to panic buy even though it might ruin (a) his biggest chance at management, and (b) his reputation at the one club that loves him more than anywhere else. He has done that because he loves the club and understands what needs to be done to put us back on track. Look at what he gets in return. I tell you, I've never wanted a manager to succeed anywhere near as much as I have him.
 
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Yes but if you add SAF and the manager who would replace Ole, it adds up to six which is exactly the number of managers I claimed.
@Douglas Crockett Can you count back 6 years? SAF was last manager in May 2013. It's now January 2020.

I mean, even if you said 6 managers in 7 years it'd be a bit daft trying to include SAF don't you think? Considering SAF was manager for 26 years. It'd be a silly as claiming Arsenal are a triggy happy shambles for having 3 managers in 2 years.

As I say, so far it's 4 managers in 6.5 years. We are hardly a trigger happy club, we have however employed the wrong managers and often been too patient with them if anything.

Why do you feel the need to insult somebody with whom you disagree? In this particular instance you were wrong. Somehow I don't think you'll be able to bring yourself to apologize for your error.
So two things here. First, you were wrong, strange I had to actually break it down to help you count the years but still, wrong, so please do bring yourself to apologise.

And second, how did I insult you? Please reply and let me know which part of my post insulted you, I'll defo apologise for that, but I will not apologise for you being wrong.

You missed out Giggs too.
:lol: Giggs was never manager, he was a caretaker. Stop embarrassing yourself. Next up from Bilbo, "Arsenal have had 3 manager in a month".
 
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Flexdegea

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That's a big problem for me. Ole as a player, was an underdog. Super-sub. The killer who came off the bench and sniped defences, as opposed to the main man starting the game. Ole the manager is also an underdog and constantly talks like one (well, since being made permanent he does - while he was auditioning for the role, he was all super confident in some of his statements).

An underdog manager can only take a club of our stature so far before he needs to hand over the reigns to a supremely confident, front-foot manager, in my opinion.


Such a nonsense post.


He wasnt just a super sub, dont mind me asking but what age on you?



He had some glorious moments coming on as a sub but literally took Beckham spot when we won the 2003 title and that was playing right wing. Thats without even covering all the previous seasons.



The whole underdog bit you have just invented in your, complete nonsense :lol:


Won I dont know how much cups/titles playing for the best team about, but had that underdog mentality basically implying he wasnt a winner.
 

Bilbo

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@Douglas Crockett Can you count back 6 years? SAF was last manager in May 2013. It's now January 2020.



So two things here. First, you were wrong so please apologise.

And second, how did I insult you? Please reply and let me know which part of my post insulted you, I'll defo apologise for that, but not for you being wrong.



:lol: Giggs was never manager, he was a caretaker. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Do you recognise the cycle that you are a part of on this forum? If we lose a match you all have some ammunition to use so you rely on that. If we win you all go back into the playbook and spend the week arguing about other less important things. The one constant is that no matter what happens on the pitch there is moaning and trying to score points with people.
 

Kostur

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As you mentioned, even if Ole isn’t the long term answer, he certainly is the right guy for this stage of the rebuild and will without doubt hand over a much more balanced squad for the next manager should he leave.
Based on absolutely nothing.

I love this notion that Ole's the 'right man for the rebuild' and complaining that every new manager that comes in needs to reshuffle the squad. Well no shit, so did Ole. He got AWB in while you could complain that he could've developed Dalot (getting AWB in was a right move but not like it required some extensive nous that's being attributed to Ole to get AWB). He got in Maguire and got rid of Smalling, we've paid about 20 mil quid more than what was reported a year before so, apart from overpaying for Maguire anyway, it's a nothing move. Then we've got James who was apparently recommended by Giggs.

At the same time he got rid of Fellaini, didn't extend Herrera's contract (him, Woody and Mourinho are all to blame, mind), got rid of Lukaku, sent out Sanchez on loan, extended contracts with shite like Jones, Rojo and Pereira. Everybody, rightfully so, is now complaining about being short in midfield, and we would've been short in midfield even if Pogba/McTominay didn't get injured, if not for the numbers then purely for quality. So we didn't address that at all. We didn't get in another striker in hoping that Greenwood will come good. Happy with Greenwood as I am, it showed to be a shortsighted and naive decision when Martial got injured.

He's also constantly playing tripe like Lingard, not for the lack of options actually because Pereira/Mata could be playing there week in week out and still have better output than the cnut. Credit where it's due for Williams and that's about it really. Then you've got some silly moves like alienating Matić, playing Jones ahead of Tuanzebe and other shite.

So, based on what exactly are we saying that he's the right guy for the rebuild? Purely because he brought down our average squad age without replacing it properly?
 

DomesticTadpole

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That's a big problem for me. Ole as a player, was an underdog. Super-sub. The killer who came off the bench and sniped defences, as opposed to the main man starting the game. Ole the manager is also an underdog and constantly talks like one (well, since being made permanent he does - while he was auditioning for the role, he was all super confident in some of his statements).

An underdog manager can only take a club of our stature so far before he needs to hand over the reigns to a supremely confident, front-foot manager, in my opinion.
Some of the situations Ole came of the bench were real pressure situations. That takes a strong character. He saved our skins a number of times.
 
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Do you recognise the cycle that you are a part of on this forum? If we lose a match you all have some ammunition to use so you rely on that. If we win you all go back into the playbook and spend the week arguing about other less important things. The one constant is that no matter what happens on the pitch there is moaning and trying to score points with people.
Bilbo mate, you're wrong. I have backed Ole to stay since Newcastle, and have written it dozens of times here. I desperately want him to prove I was wrong after Watford wanting him sacked.

Thing is, I can't stand the constant garbage and misinformation, and crap excuses posted here. Like claiming sacking him would mean 6 managers in 6 years, it's a blatant lie, as is adding Giggs to that for oomph-factor. As I say Bilbs, it's as silly as claiming Arsenal are a triggy happy shambles because they've had 4 managers in 2 years. (in reality it's 3 managers in 24 years, or more recently 2 managers in 2 years).

Some more garbage above "he certainly is the right guy for this stage of the rebuild and will without doubt hand over a much more balanced squad for the next manager should he leave."... based on what?

Now I think Ole is at this moment just about doing enough to get a little more benefit of the doubt, but my God it's on a knife edge. Claiming he is certainly right or that the squad will be more balanced is based on what? Hope, nothing more. The evidence so far shows he'll likely hand over a younger, squad with cheaper wages, that acquires less points. See what I mean?

Let's just focus on that right now, since 1st December he's just about doing enough and be pleased with the positives.
 
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Bilbo

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Based on absolutely nothing.

I love this notion that Ole's the 'right man for the rebuild' and complaining that every new manager that comes in needs to reshuffle the squad. Well no shit, so did Ole. He got AWB in while you could complain that he could've developed Dalot (getting AWB in was a right move but not like it required some extensive nous that's being attributed to Ole to get AWB). He got in Maguire and got rid of Smalling, we've paid about 20 mil quid more than what was reported a year before so, apart from overpaying for Maguire anyway, it's a nothing move. Then we've got James who was apparently recommended by Giggs.

At the same time he got rid of Fellaini, didn't extend Herrera's contract (him, Woody and Mourinho are all to blame, mind), got rid of Lukaku, sent out Sanchez on loan, extended contracts with shite like Jones, Rojo and Pereira. Everybody, rightfully so, is now complaining about being short in midfield, and we would've been short in midfield even if Pogba/McTominay didn't get injured, if not for the numbers then purely for quality. So we didn't address that at all. We didn't get in another striker in hoping that Greenwood will come good. Happy with Greenwood as I am, it showed to be a shortsighted and naive decision when Martial got injured.

He's also constantly playing tripe like Lingard, not for the lack of options actually because Pereira/Mata could be playing there week in week out and still have better output than the cnut. Credit where it's due for Williams and that's about it really. Then you've got some silly moves like alienating Matić, playing Jones ahead of Tuanzebe and other shite.

So, based on what exactly are we saying that he's the right guy for the rebuild? Purely because he brought down our average squad age without replacing it properly?
The funny thing about all this is that Ole is doing a lot of the things that everyone wanted to happen.

Young was hated at RB. He got dogs abuse. Ole replaced him
Jones and Smalling. Cant pass the ball. Impede our build up play from the back - dogs abuse. We now have a different centre back partnership
Fellaini was everything we hated about the club. Clumsy, no technique. A stone age footballer. Dogs abuse. Hes gone
Lukaku - see above. Couldn't trap a bag of cement, second touch is a tackle. All the jokes. Dogs abuse - Hes gone
We hated buying mercenaries on massive contracts - that wont happen again
We all wanted Martial to get a run up front and not compete with Rashford on the left - that's happened
Lingard - dogs abuse - he only plays now because we need to rotate. Will likely be sold
Shaw - too fat. He now has competition. Arguably no longer first choice
Hadnt bought a right winger for a million years. He bought one, and will prob buy another too

I could go on and on. Even when we all get what we want we aren't happy. If we sacked Ole you'd all be passing and moaning again in a month as soon as we hit a rough patch.
 

Bilbo

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Bilbo mate, you're wrong. I have backed Ole to stay since Newcastle, and have written it dozens of times here. I desperately want him to prove I was wrong after Watford wanting him sacked.

Thing is, I can't stand the constant garbage and misinformation, and crap excuses posted here. Like claiming sacking him would mean 6 managers in 6 years, it's a blatant lie, as is adding Giggs to that for oomph-factor. As I say Bilbs, it's as silly as claiming Arsenal are a triggy happy shambles because they've had 4 managers in 2 years. (in reality it's 3 managers in 24 years, or more recently 2 managers in 2 years).

Some more garbage above "he certainly is the right guy for this stage of the rebuild and will without doubt hand over a much more balanced squad for the next manager should he leave."... based on what?

Now I think Ole is at this moment just about doing enough to get a little more benefit of the doubt, but my God it's on a knife edge. Claiming he is certainly right or that the squad will be more balanced is based on what? Hope, nothing more. The evidence so far shows he'll likely hand over a younger, squad with cheaper wages, that acquires less points. See what I mean?

Let's just focus on that right now, since 1st December he's just about doing enough and be pleased with the positives.
Who cares? Is it worth arguing about?
 
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The two great periods of our clubs history have been from managers that were given time to rebuild the club. Obviously mentioning that will draw responses that we are comparing Ole with Ferguson and Busby, which is ridiculous, but it is still a fact nonetheless. We should want to give managers time to succeed, and its a credit to the club. Its part of our identity. We are in this mess largely because of the imbalance in the squad caused by changing managers.
I'd actually argue we're in this mess because the club had no strategy after SAF, it was all about finding another manager that could handle it all and have full SAF control.

Thankfully the club appeared to learn their lesson after Mourinho (or during Mourinho which pissed him off) when the brought in the transfer committee to take away that full control from the manager*. The club also now have a vision of what they want from a United manager, Poch was reportedly number on choice but that's why they gave Ole a chance, because he also agrees with this vision.

*people are still moaning for a DoF though, even the ones delighted with Ole and the decisions made in the transfer market so far by the committee. Go figure.
 
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Who cares? Is it worth arguing about?
You posted it, not me so you obviously thought it was.

But hey it's just the ones who can be critical of Ole that are "trying to score points with people". Hypocrisy at it's finest my man.

As I say, how's about not jumping in a when a poster states a clear fact, in that a post is agenda driven made up garbage? But hey, you just have to try and score points right?

You've got a funny history though Bilbo, back Moyes to the hilt and wanted him to stay. Wanted both LVG and Mourinho sacked. Now back to backing Ole to the hilt.
 
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RUCK4444

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Based on absolutely nothing.

I love this notion that Ole's the 'right man for the rebuild' and complaining that every new manager that comes in needs to reshuffle the squad. Well no shit, so did Ole. He got AWB in while you could complain that he could've developed Dalot (getting AWB in was a right move but not like it required some extensive nous that's being attributed to Ole to get AWB). He got in Maguire and got rid of Smalling, we've paid about 20 mil quid more than what was reported a year before so, apart from overpaying for Maguire anyway, it's a nothing move. Then we've got James who was apparently recommended by Giggs.

At the same time he got rid of Fellaini, didn't extend Herrera's contract (him, Woody and Mourinho are all to blame, mind), got rid of Lukaku, sent out Sanchez on loan, extended contracts with shite like Jones, Rojo and Pereira. Everybody, rightfully so, is now complaining about being short in midfield, and we would've been short in midfield even if Pogba/McTominay didn't get injured, if not for the numbers then purely for quality. So we didn't address that at all. We didn't get in another striker in hoping that Greenwood will come good. Happy with Greenwood as I am, it showed to be a shortsighted and naive decision when Martial got injured.

He's also constantly playing tripe like Lingard, not for the lack of options actually because Pereira/Mata could be playing there week in week out and still have better output than the cnut. Credit where it's due for Williams and that's about it really. Then you've got some silly moves like alienating Matić, playing Jones ahead of Tuanzebe and other shite.

So, based on what exactly are we saying that he's the right guy for the rebuild? Purely because he brought down our average squad age without replacing it properly?
Well no, it's based on the fact he's the only manager to properly get rid any of the bench warming, money grabbing, tripe that we had here for multiple seasons prior. And I'm not complaining that each manager needs to make changes - what I'm complaining about is the fact that we as a club keep creating that situation by hiring and firing and not get anything right from top to bottom.

The money we've wasted over the last 6 years is nothing short of disgraceful. It's been perpetuated and worsened directly by hiring and firing after poor appointments.

Just think for a second, 1 billion spent and here we are fielding teenagers in multiple positions still relying on Young as a backup and not a single 20+ goalscorer in the squad (unless Rashford hits that mark this year.)

I believe in comparison to the last 3 managers Ole's recruitment has been solid and he has gotten rid of dead wood players, he hasn't even had a second summer transfer window ffs.

Regarding your points on players, AWB is a feckin' massive upgrade on Dalot who doesn't seem to make the grade but may with time. If we had played Dalot all season and he had been shite then I'm sure you would be using that as a stick to bash Ole with as well!?

Midfield has no doubt been affected by injuries, if you want to choose to ignore that then that's fine, you might as well ignore everything that doesn't suit your narrative.

Ole has been outstanding with the young players. Anybody who says otherwise is either stupid or hugely biased with an agenda against Ole. Williams, James, Greenwood all integrated and hit the ground running perfectly in the starting 11.
Not to mention McTominay improving and Fred looking a completely different player under Ole.

Fact is he's not as shite as you choose to believe. An inconsistent season but with lots of positives especially against the top sides isn't something I'm too angry about considering the scale of the rebuild and the points above.
 

ReddBalls

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The website of the scandinavian branch of the supporter club has an interesteing article today regarding beating the so-called lesser clubs (everyone bar the "traditional" top 6). They have divided the 16 matches into groups of four in chronological order and the table shows points, goals and XG of each group.

There is obvious progress.

Points in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 5
Match 5-8: 3
Match 9-12: 6
Match 13-16: 9
Goals in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 4
Match 5-8: 3
Match 9-12: 9
Match 13-16: 10
Expected goals in these 16 matches:
Match 1-4: 6,42
Match 5-8: 6,95
Match 9-12: 8,12
Match 13-16: 8,97

The article can be found here (paywall): https://www.united.no/nyhetsarkiv/jo-united-er-blitt-mye-bedre-mot-de-mindre-gode/?fbclid=IwAR31A20BtFO5QvO5EnGy8kI5oiMtAaE5nnONeoeMGYp6-Z8kBfokpamaIig
 

RUCK4444

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Yep agreed. It makes my blood boil when fans on here call him a yes man, or someone having an easy job. In my view this guy has been given very likely his one and only shot at managing a big club and he has been brave enough to gut this squad and refuse to panic buy even though it might ruin (a) his biggest chance at management, and (b) his reputation at the one club that loves him more than anywhere else. He has done that because he loves the club and understands what needs to be done to put us back on track. Look at what he gets in return. I tell you, I've never wanted a manager to succeed anywhere near as much as I have him.
Exactly mate. It takes big balls to do what he did in the summer, I still believe Ed should have spent more for him and I'm sure he would have liked one or two more signings. The thing is the players that have left had to go, much like when you want to sign a player you need to do so when the opportunity arrives, the same applies to sales in a way, ultimately you need a buyer and the buyers were there in the summer.

Like you said and I've also said in previous posts, he risked everything to do what he knew needed to be done, the deadwood and troublesome players needed to go in order to change the dynamic within the side and push it in his direction of youthful hungry players with the right mentality. We are not there yet, of course not, but I refuse to believe we have gone backwards, almost the entire starting 11 have not reached their peak.

The thing is with young and hungry players, you can mould them, create something new. That's why I'm not worried about giving Ole another transfer window because the style of signing he makes will be fine for the next manager.
 

TRUERED89

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Rashford, Martial, greenwood, Scott, James, Fred all having a very good season. The manager must be doing something right if players are constantly improving in the team.
Brandon Williams has done well too. I hope we stop conceding silly goals from individual errors, then we might put some pressure on Chelsea for that bittersweet 4th spot.
 

MrEarl

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@Douglas Crockett Can you count back 6 years? SAF was last manager in May 2013. It's now January 2020.

I mean, even if you said 6 managers in 7 years it'd be a bit daft trying to include SAF don't you think? Considering SAF was manager for 26 years. It'd be a silly as claiming Arsenal are a triggy happy shambles for having 3 managers in 2 years.

As I say, so far it's 4 managers in 6.5 years. We are hardly a trigger happy club, we have however employed the wrong managers and often been too patient with them if anything.



So two things here. First, you were wrong, strange I had to actually break it down to help you count the years but still, wrong, so please do bring yourself to apologise.

And second, how did I insult you? Please reply and let me know which part of my post insulted you, I'll defo apologise for that, but I will not apologise for you being wrong.



:lol: Giggs was never manager, he was a caretaker. Stop embarrassing yourself. Next up from Bilbo, "Arsenal have had 3 manager in a month".
I'm having some trouble following your logic. It's a "blatant lie" to call SAF a manager because he managed for 26 years? And how is it a blatant lie to conclude that firing Ole, which will obviously require hiring another manager, doesn't count as adding another manager? Your reasoning is mystifying.

Actually when you call somebody a blatant liar it's an insult. I've been called worse and I'm not going to lose any sleep over your name-calling but it is what it is.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Give Ole a creative midfielder and give him the season. End of story. If we get top 4 then keep. Another exception is if we end up 5th but play attractive attacking football then I would keep him. Anything less and he should be sacked immediately.

The way some people talk you would think we are in 7th place or lower. We are 5th and that's befitting when you consider the players quality.

People also act like we are the only team losing to lower oppositions. Even Man City has lost to Norwich. We're doing better than Tottenham who has a better team than us. Chelsea has also lost to smaller teams.

We've also been played some games without our best players and yet people don't consider this. We then suddenly play better when these players come back from injury.

Ole I think deserves this season. It's not like he's working with a squad thats better than some of the top 6 teams and has us struggling to enter top 4. It's not like we're far away from top 4 either. I'd give him a creative midfielder and this season because that is what I think any coach would need for top 4 to be a certainty with this team.

One thing that's really irked me is his recent comments. Makes you wonder whether he thinks he's managing a low tier club.
 
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I'm having some trouble following your logic. It's a "blatant lie" to call SAF a manager because he managed for 26 years? And how is it a blatant lie to conclude that firing Ole, which will obviously require hiring another manager, doesn't count as adding another manager? Your reasoning is mystifying.
My God man, you said sacking Ole will result in 6 managers in 6 years, are you really struggling? My logic is that 6 years ago from now is 13th January 2014 and SAF wasn't manager then, you know, basic common sense logic.

13th January 2020 (today)
Now @Douglas Crockett go back 6 yearss
1. 13th January 2019
2. 13th January 2018
3. 13th January 2017
4. 13th January 2016
5. 13th January 2015
6. 13th January 2014

Sir Alex hasn't been manager since May 2013. Do keep up mate and apologise. And the logic of even trying to include a guy who had the job for 27 years in an argument about not giving managers time or being a shambles is beyond silly.
 
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Bilbo

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You posted it, not me so you obviously thought it was.

But hey it's just the ones who can be critical of Ole that are "trying to score points with people". Hypocrisy at it's finest my man.

As I say, how's about not jumping in a when a poster states a clear fact, in that a post is agenda driven made up garbage? But hey, you just have to try and score points right?

You've got a funny history though Bilbo, back Moyes to the hilt and wanted him to stay. Wanted both LVG and Mourinho sacked. Now back to backing Ole to the hilt.
I was definitely wavering on Moyes pretty hard by the end, and my support of him was largely due to the players he had reportedly secured for the summer. That feels like a million years ago now though.