Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[sunama]

Without defending the Glazers here, it's maybe also because they feel they did not get value for their money with Lindehof, Baily, Mhiki, Sanchez!, Lukkaku, Pogba and Matic.

We got 2nd place. Our best league result since SAF left.
I'd say that was a very good return.
Another cash injection and we'd be competing for the league.

I assure you, The Glazers are not worried about us getting higher up the league. They want to spend as a little as possible, while maintaining or increasing the revenue. It really is that simple. And that's what they tried to do in Jose's last Summer. Reduce spending and if we end up in 4th....that's a win for the Glazers. The problem was that we dropped down way further than 4th...which was not acceptable to them. The other thing was that they knew that Jose would keep demanding transfers, to compete for trophies. Perhaps they felt that spending that sort of money was not sustainable, so decided to cut ties and appoint a yes man, who can make them money (by spending less and getting 4th place).

 

[sect2k]

Or maybe because it was at a mental health event, some of the questions were steered towards relationships with people?

Doesn't appear to be the case, there is a video of his interview in the article I linked and you can hear the question there, and it's a pretty straight forward, "what you think of their arrival" type.

 

[Gehrman]

We got 2nd place. Our best league result since SAF left.
I'd say that was a very good return.
Another cash injection and we'd be competing for the league.

I assure you, The Glazers are not worried about us getting higher up the league. They want to spend as a little as possible, while maintaining or increasing the revenue. It really is that simple. And that's what they tried to do in Jose's last Summer. Reduce spending and if we end up in 4th....that's a win for the Glazers. The problem was that we dropped down way further than 4th...which was not acceptable to them. The other thing was that they knew that Jose would keep demanding transfers, to compete for trophies. Perhaps they felt that spending that sort of money was not sustainable, so decided to cut ties and appoint a yes man, who can make them money (by spending less and getting 4th place).

I agree that we should have invested more to catch up with City, but Jose's signings have really not in hindsight been value for money. We aren't City or PSG. We can't afford to squander our money.

 

[Random Task]

Doesn't appear to be the case, there is a video of his interview in the article I linked and you can hear the question there, and it's a pretty straight forward, "what you think of their arrival" type.

Either way, you can be a nice guy and highly motivated at the same time.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Shame you are ten thousand miles away from Old Trafford. We need more fans like you, to show them how it's done.

Ah, i was wondering when we will come to this. Final solution response. Bravo.

 

[lRed]

Better players, new approach, new characters. These things all need to be changed before we start seeing the improvements on the pitch. I know that nobody will be convinced by any argument now, but when people think about why Ole isn't under more pressure from within the club despite the inconsistency you have to ask yourself why that is. There are crazy conclusions reached on that subject that make little sense. 'Woodward wants a yes man', 'the Glazers are content with mediocrity as long as money is being made', or my favourite crackpot theory that 'they distract us with a club legend in charge so fans are comfortable with the lowering of standards'. None of these make any sense at all, no matter whose viewpoint you look at this from. There is not one single person within the club that doesn't benefit when we are successful, or anyone that doesn't suffer in some way when we are not.

So why stick with the manager? The Burnley loss was a low point. A really terrible night for the club, on the pitch and in the stands. What did the club do - sack the manager? No - they gave him 2 more players. Why on earth would they do that when there are so many other managerial options we could go after, in particular one that Woodward has already courted that is unemployed and presumably ready and willing to go right now? He wanted him once, he could have him now and yet he doesn't pull the trigger when so many fans would applaud him for it.

There is part of me that thinks that Woodward might pull the trigger if we don't reach the Champions League. He has form for this. Ultimately though I believe its unlikely. I think the squad that Mourinho left was in complete disarray. Rotten eggs, bad characters, in-fighting, cliques. You name it. If this is true then it explains a lot of things. Why we let so many players go in the summer even though we knew it would hurt us. Why we are reluctant to go after certain players who make demands that raise red flags. Why we are willing to persist with this manager.

Ole may not yet have proven himself to be a tactical mastermind, or even a manager who has every tool required for a club of our size. He may well never prove that. Logic suggests though that he could be exactly the right man for what the club needs right now. A cultural reboot. A unified squad of players that all want to play for us. The right leaders in a squad so desperate for them that we were compelled to lay out £80m for Harry Maguire - a £50m player with an £80m temperament. Ole didn't leave us short up front because he thought we would survive a gruelling season on rations. He did it because selling Lukaku was better for us than keeping him. We could have paid up for Dybala, but that goes against everything we were trying to do. The guy wanted a big payday to leave a club he didn't want to leave. Same with the midfield. He didn't decide that Lingard & Pereira were the answer to our prayers. He wanted Eriksen & Fernandes, but they either couldn't get the deal done on our terms or in Eriksen's case he wasn't desperate to come here.

Results will get better in time because this season is the worst of it. The squad have a much better feel about them now. We will now add more quality. Better characters. Leaders on and off the pitch. Ole has bought very well so far. Maguire is already club captain. AWB is a really solid defender that runs himself into the ground every single game. James gets kicked all over the place but gets back up and runs some more. Fernandes & Ighalo are both just starting but look like the right fit for what we need. Whether Ole is the right man for the whole project or not, he will definitely leave the next guy a much better starting point than he inherited.

Finally someone who doesn't only speak with his emotions.

And a point you didn't talk about is : why Solskjaer couldn't progress with his team in the near future ?
I know we didn't take the best profile in terms of experience/cv/tactics but that wasn't what we were looking for, we already tried this way with van Gaal and Mourinho, it did not work. So the cultural aspect is spot on here, we are building something, all the signs are going in the same way.
Yes we don't play awesome every matches but there is a lot more positives than what most of the fans want to see or don't see.

 

[Bilbo]

So many words, so little substance, so many baseless assumptions. Let's just touch on the supposed cultural reboot that's supposed to be his hallmark.
In a recent interview (1), McTominay said this about Fernandes and Ighalo, and I quote:

"They're really, really nice guys. First and foremost they are good people and that's what we need at this football club. We need good friends, who you can go out to dinner with."

If this is the sort of mentality this cultural reboot is about, no wonder we're shit, we need winners not nice guys, who cares if you can go to dinner with your team mates, or if you can't stand them, as long as you deliver performances on the pitch. Was Cantona a nice guy, was Keane, or Giggs? There is a reason they say that nice guys finish last.

1 - https://www.skysports.com/football/...st-impressions-very-good-says-scott-mctominay

This is a team sport. You need everyone to buy into the vision, and that doesn't happen if you have 11 individuals. I must have missed the memo that concluded that every successful & driven person was also a prick

 

[crossy1686]

I saw that quote and thought exactly the same thing.

You can not be a dick and still be a winner. Why do people associate petulance and being a total cock with winning? It's not like Keane was going home and stamping on kittens and putting fags out on kids just because he liked to win. Yes he was demanding on the football pitch but he's still a decent guy who cared about people's wellbeing, he was the first to kick off if he felt someone had been mistreated.

Bruno might be a 'nice guy' but who isn't on their first day at work? He's not going to come in swinging his cock around is he? If you want to see what he's like on the pitch then watch the game and you've have seen him pointing at Lingard and telling him to move into spaces where he could play a better ball to him. That's taking control of a situation and being a leader, we'll see more of this as he settles in.

Not that any of it mattered though, Lingard just drifted out wide and got in the way anyway...

 

[b82REZ]

Ole's "cultural rebuild" is the new process/philosophy. An intangible concept that acts more of an excuse for bad performances than facing the reality of poor management.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I just wrote a long post describing all of the good things I think Ole has done for this club so far. Now you are asking me to compare that with an alternate reality. I cant do that, and crucially because its not actually real you don't need to defend it either, so your position on this is very easy. Who could possibly know how well anybody else would have done.

You do realize you're also stating an alternate reality. You're saying Ole should stay to build a squad that is filled with United characters. Isn't this living in an alternate reality. The fact that you're 'imaginig' the future where Ole has created a squad filled with talented players that understand and want to play for the club means you've already created an alternate reality. The future does not exist.

Anyways let's not going to all that. Your post was about the good things Ole has done. These good things he has done has been done also by a better manager than him eg Pochettino. So what makes Ole so special at this point when someone better than him has done the good things he's done and is available right now. Better players, new approach and character ALONG with improvement on the pitch is what Pochettino did for Tottenham. It's what any successful coach did for their team. So because of the good things he's done we shouldn't mind not seeing improvement on the pitch when it's literally Ole's job to improve performance on the pitch. He's being paid for it ffs. I wish I could be paid for not doing my job well.

There's nothing special in what Ole has done so far. He's promoted youth? Heck Valverde has promoted youth. Cleared deadwood? Which coach doesn't want to clear the deadwood in his team. Signed players with United character? Did City sign players that fit the Manchester City ethos before they won the league two times in a row or did they just sign players that suited one of the best managers philosophy.

You give him credit for all these things simply because they've not all been done by our previous coaches. But it's nothing special. People in the transfer forum talk about clearing deadwood, buying United like players and promoting youth every time. It's nothing special. What should be special is showing improvement in performances and Ole has failed in that so far.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Ole's "cultural rebuild" is the new process/philosophy. An intangible concept that acts more of an excuse for bad performances than facing the reality of poor management.

I think the concept is something that is needed, but Ole is unable to do it.

The standards which we had previously, to be the top in every department of the football club, have been slowly slipping, and I wouldn't mind such a revamp in all areas to bring us up to speed. Woodward isn't football savvy enough to do it and doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon, so we'll have to depend on our manager.

The problem is, Ole himself isn't good enough on the pitch to be demanding such high standards of others, which is why he keeps lowering the standards. Were he actually a genius manager, the rebuild would be in full swing as he would produce the goods on the pitch and demand all other parts of the club do the same, making the necessary changes.

Ultimately, I don't think a rebuild of the football club is something to scoff at, but it does need a very good footballing head to carry it out, whether it be in the form of a CEO, DOF, or mercurial manager. Right now, we have none of these, hence a rebuild won't work and any talk of such seems like hot air.

 

[el3mel]

So, let me get this straight. Because he is in Australia, what he says has less weight, compared to someone who lives in Manchester?
Are we now saying that because you live in Manchester, that somehow you are a better fan of the club and that what you say should have more weight?

The crazy thing is @Womp wasnt even talking to him. Ole's supporters have run out of any sensible replays on any good argument that wants him out so that's only way to replay : change the subject to a personal insult and saying you aren't a true fan.

 

[Roboc7]

So many words, so little substance, so many baseless assumptions. Let's just touch on the supposed cultural reboot that's supposed to be his hallmark.
In a recent interview (1), McTominay said this about Fernandes and Ighalo, and I quote:

"They're really, really nice guys. First and foremost they are good people and that's what we need at this football club. We need good friends, who you can go out to dinner with."

If this is the sort of mentality this cultural reboot is about, no wonder we're shit, we need winners not nice guys, who cares if you can go to dinner with your team mates, or if you can't stand them, as long as you deliver performances on the pitch. Was Cantona a nice guy, was Keane, or Giggs? There is a reason they say that nice guys finish last.

1 - https://www.skysports.com/football/...st-impressions-very-good-says-scott-mctominay

The most successful cultural change Ole has made is the players wear suits to games now. Their still wearing them so that’s been a success.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I am torn to be honest. Performances and results as a whole this season have been poor. But I think he has done well in identifying the players we have brought in, players who actually want to be here, and sign for Manchester United not just for bumper wages. And he has sold a lot of crap, who in truth should have been sold 2-3 years ago. There are still a few more to go.

Our season has been hindered by key injuries to Pogba at a time when we hadn't signed a midfielder. Is that Ole's fault? I think that blame is on Ed's shoulders for not getting the Fernandes deal done in the summer. Then McTominay got injured. Two of our starting 3 midfielders injured long term. I'm not sure why people blame Ole for using Lingard, Mata, Pereira when he literally had no choice before Christmas. Then Rashford, our most improved player this season gets injured. Some fans blame Ole for bringing him on but if it didn't happen at Wolves it probably would have happened in the next game. So a very small squad got hindered with 3 key, long term injuries.

Youth has come through and I like to see more youngsters involved even if they are perceived not to be good enough. How can they improve without minutes in the first team. Would Greenwood have got double figures had we signed another forward? I doubt it. Similarly with Williams he has worked his way above Luke Shaw by many fan's opinions.

I still believe the season was written off before it even started because the club from board to players knew we needed a massive overhaul. The Mourinho project was complete disaster and a very expensive one. Do I feel we can win titles and progress to where United fans want to be under Ole? No. However I think he's doing an alright job on rebuilding the squad. I would expect he will be given next season and if performances don't improve he will be sacked. But at least then, hopefully the next manager won't need such a drastic overhaul of players.

 

[Escobar]

All this cultural rebuild is just a weak excuse for not getting results. You cant measure that as you can results, and at one point you would expect an impact on the pitch which until today we have not seen

 

[Stacks]

Exactly this. Hypocricy on highest level here. Main phrase about Lvg and Jose was how they were in decline. Despite Lvg just finished third in WC, winning double with Bayern before that and Dutch league with AZ before that. What a decline that was .
Jose won PL one year before joining us.

But Ole is the right man because he won something in Norway 10 years ago. Ridiculous stuff.

To be fair Van Gaal was on the way to Spurs. Jose is at Spurs now. That puts these guys as past greats, yesterdays men and not the guys, big teams want anymore. Both Managers were sacked horrendously from their last club jobs.

 

[el3mel]

All this cultural rebuild is just a weak excuse for not getting results. You cant measure that as you can results, and at one point you would expect an impact on the pitch which until today we have not seen

I remember one here whom I told him that and his replay was that I don't know what culture means and the players now are showing more fight and toughness in them than previously.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

So many words, so little substance, so many baseless assumptions. Let's just touch on the supposed cultural reboot that's supposed to be his hallmark.
In a recent interview (1), McTominay said this about Fernandes and Ighalo, and I quote:

"They're really, really nice guys. First and foremost they are good people and that's what we need at this football club. We need good friends, who you can go out to dinner with."

If this is the sort of mentality this cultural reboot is about, no wonder we're shit, we need winners not nice guys, who cares if you can go to dinner with your team mates, or if you can't stand them, as long as you deliver performances on the pitch. Was Cantona a nice guy, was Keane, or Giggs? There is a reason they say that nice guys finish last.

1 - https://www.skysports.com/football/...st-impressions-very-good-says-scott-mctominay

Good team spirit is not a bad thing.
Although guys like Costa and other bad guys can cause lots of problems in teams too even if they are good players.
Certainly playing nasty can help teams we see it with Pool and City, but the refs should punnish them more. Same with dirty Costa. Although someone like Herrera was a pretty nice guy outside the field, but dirty like feck on the pitch. We need quality first of all though rather than certain personalities for the group.
Being nice is never a bad thing, but if you just give things away it will be exploited. If we play too nice on the pitch it will cost you.

Also if the manager is to nice with players and do not drop them after poor performances that is not a good thing.
Too nice with agents and we will pay insane fees like Woodward and his mates seem to do.
The biggest problem for us is the Owners being too nice with Woodward and Ole by keeping them in the job. We need something better for those roles.

 

[sect2k]

Either way, you can be a nice guy and highly motivated at the same time.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

This is a team sport. You need everyone to buy into the vision, and that doesn't happen if you have 11 individuals. I must have missed the memo that concluded that every successful & driven person was also a prick

You can not be a dick and still be a winner. Why do people associate petulance and being a total cock with winning? It's not like Keane was going home and stamping on kittens and putting fags out on kids just because he liked to win. Yes he was demanding on the football pitch but he's still a decent guy who cared about people's wellbeing, he was the first to kick off if he felt someone had been mistreated.

Bruno might be a 'nice guy' but who isn't on their first day at work? He's not going to come in swinging his cock around is he? If you want to see what he's like on the pitch then watch the game and you've have seen him pointing at Lingard and telling him to move into spaces where he could play a better ball to him. That's taking control of a situation and being a leader, we'll see more of this as he settles in.

Not that any of it mattered though, Lingard just drifted out wide and got in the way anyway...

Not what I said. I don't think you have to be a prick, for all I care you can be the nicest person in the world, what should matter, first and foremost, is winners mentality and not whether you're nice person and good dinner company.

 

[Bilbo]

You do realize you're also stating an alternate reality. You're saying Ole should stay to build a squad that is filled with United characters. Isn't this living in an alternate reality. The fact that you're 'imaginig' the future where Ole has created a squad filled with talented players that understand and want to play for the club means you've already created an alternate reality. The future does not exist.

Anyways let's not going to all that. Your post was about the good things Ole has done. These good things he has done has been done also by a better manager than him eg Pochettino. So what makes Ole so special at this point when someone better than him has done the good things he's done and is available right now. Better players, new approach and character ALONG with improvement on the pitch is what Pochettino did for Tottenham. It's what any successful coach did for their team. So because of the good things he's done we shouldn't mind not seeing improvement on the pitch when it's literally Ole's job to improve performance on the pitch. He's being paid for it ffs. I wish I could be paid for not doing my job well.

There's nothing special in what Ole has done so far. He's promoted youth? Heck Valverde has promoted youth. Cleared deadwood? Which coach doesn't want to clear the deadwood in his team. Signed players with United character? Did City sign players that fit the Manchester City ethos before they won the league two times in a row or did they just sign players that suited one of the best managers philosophy.

You give him credit for all these things simply because they've not all been done by our previous coaches. But it's nothing special. People in the transfer forum talk about clearing deadwood, buying United like players and promoting youth every time. It's nothing special. What should be special is showing improvement in performances and Ole has failed in that so far.

Youre using the word special in here a lot - I don't know why. I'm not claiming that he is doing anything special, merely what this club needs right now in my opinion. I've stated from way back that I will be more harsh in my own personal expectations of him next season. This one for me was always about transition and laying foundations and I'm happy with what has been done so far.

Its easy to be critical of most managers if the desire is there to do so. Some will say Pochettino failed to win anything and blew a very winnable title race. Guardiola needed the time and financial backing to complete an already competent squad before City looked anything special. I rate both of those guys highly for the record, and also think every job is different and comparisons are largely a waste of effort.

 

[Bilbo]

Not what I said. I don't think you have to be a prick, for all I care you can be the nicest person in the world, what should matter, first and foremost, is winners mentality and not whether you're nice person and good dinner company.

You didn't say that, but you did take a relatively harmless and throwaway comment from a player and turn it into a negative.

 

[Roboc7]

Youre using the word special in here a lot - I don't know why. I'm not claiming that he is doing anything special, merely what this club needs right now in my opinion. I've stated from way back that I will be more harsh in my own personal expectations of him next season. This one for me was always about transition and laying foundations and I'm happy with what has been done so far.

Its easy to be critical of most managers if the desire is there to do so. Some will say Pochettino failed to win anything and blew a very winnable title race. Guardiola needed the time and financial backing to complete an already competent squad before City looked anything special. I rate both of those guys highly for the record, and also think every job is different and comparisons are largely a waste of effort.

Foundations for what?. Counter attacking and being happy to be here?. It’s easy to say words like transition and foundations but you have to look what is actually happening.

Ole wasn’t brought in to lay foundations and he has no ability or pedigree to do so. He was a punt based on a caretaker spell, with the added bonus of being a club legend to buy all the idiots above him time. There’s nothing clever about appointing Ole or anything the club is doing or has done since.

I think even people who want Ole to stay have now realised that he is such a limited manager he’s never going to win titles, or even get close to that.

More than someone who supposedly ‘gets the club’ (don’t think people even know what that means) we need someone who can drag us into this era of football. Knowing the club is a cliche that means very little.

If Ole was transforming the way we play and there was an actual transition taking place and a platform being built for the next manager it would make some sense to stick with him despite the awful performance.

 

[Bilbo]

Foundations for what?. Counter attacking and being happy to be here?. It’s easy to say words like transition and foundations but you have to look what is actually happening.

Ole wasn’t brought in to lay foundations and he has no ability or pedigree to do so. He was a punt based on a caretaker spell, with the added bonus of being a club legend to buy all the idiots above him time. There’s nothing clever about appointing Ole or anything the club is doing or has done since.

I think even people who want Ole to stay have now realised that he is such a limited manager he’s never going to win titles, or even get close to that.

More than someone who supposedly ‘gets the club’ (don’t think people even know what that means) we need someone who can drag us into this era of football. Knowing the club is a cliche that means very little.

If Ole was transforming the way we play and there was an actual transition taking place and a platform being built for the next manager it would make some sense to stick with him despite the awful performance.

To avoid the danger of getting caught up in another debate we've all had before, I'll just say that there is more than one viewpoint about whether foundations are being laid. One way or another we are all going to find out what happens....

 

[Roboc7]

To avoid the danger of getting caught up in another debate we've all had before, I'll just say that there is more than one viewpoint about whether foundations are being laid. One way or another we are all going to find out what happens....

Not necessarily you look at what is being done and analyse if that actually is a benefit to the next manager. Foundations is just an easy way now to deflect from realisation that what Ole was supposed to do, have club competing in three years time, is a fantasy. I don’t think there’s a single person who actually thinks that is a possibility now.

Take example of Ole’s playing style/tactics, he’s laying foundations only if we appoint another defensive manager who wants to counter attack. If that’s the clubs vision of the future then it’s beneficial, if not those foundations have to be smashed up.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We all remember the LVG foundation defenders when the result and football were terrible. He made Barca and Bayern great after his time was the argument and would made us great too.
Can anyone see those foundations around?
Did he improve the kids and should get credit for Mctominay, Williams and Greenwood?
Any of his signings doing great? I guess he got in clean sheet Romero and Luke Shaw.
Did he improve any players beyond having Rashford for 2 months?
Credit for Lingards development into a world beater?

Any evidence for the new foundations being built now? Ighalo on loan foundation for the future?
Harry Maguire as our saviour for big money? Loaning out Sanchez so he could return with better form?
Selling half the squad without replacing them?
Attacking style of play? A winning style? Any style at all?
Aiming for guys like Longstaff and King?
Improving the players in training that will show years after he is gone?
New super culture that will lift everyone?

Why should we support this new supposed rebuild when there is no evidence of it improving us?
Change do not happen over night , but we are changing in the wrong direction under him.

 

[MrEarl]

I'm one of those weaklings that think OGS is the right man for the job. The club has a serious need to rebuild. But for his first year in charge he was handed a team with only one proven central midfielder and he has been injured for pretty much the whole season. But the last two summer transfer periods the club has not spent all that much. For 18/19 it was 52 million and for 19/20 it was 87 million. But that 87 million is misleading because the net investment in the club has to be reduced by a conservative 40 million for letting Herrera go for nothing. For this season we brought in two proven good players and one championship longshot while losing two proven good players go without replacement. That's not a rebuild.

OGS has been rebuilding the only way open to him and in a way in which he is uniquely qualified. He's working with younger players and improving them. Seven of his players have made significant improvement; i.e. Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Fred, Williams, Greenwood and Lindelof.

Add AWB, Maguire and Fernandes to those seven and you have the making of what looks like a top 4 team. The goalkeeper is not that bad either. The problem is the team has no depth and, up until now, not more than two proven central midfielders. It's very hard to break defensive teams down without a full complement central midfield. In fact it's hard to be much of a tactician when you don't have substitutes. There is still a need to strengthen defense, offense, and central midfield assuming Pogba leaves.

Losing our three most essential players to injury for so long has been a disaster. It would be difficult for any team. But with United's paperthin squad pretty much any injury create serious problems. That's where the next rebuild should be coming. It will be interesting to see what OGS can do with other than a makeshift team. Maybe he's tactically lacking and that's why the team can't break down the teams that park the bus but it's not possible to tell when he's had to play pretty much the whole season without a full central midfield. The true test will come when Pogba returns. That's assuming his injury can heal without a new Madrid postal code.

 

[sect2k]

Not necessarily you look at what is being done and analyse if that actually is a benefit to the next manager. Foundations is just an easy way now to deflect from realisation that what Ole was supposed to do, have club competing in three years time, is a fantasy. I don’t think there’s a single person who actually thinks that is a possibility now.

Take example of Ole’s playing style/tactics, he’s laying foundations only if we appoint another defensive manager who wants to counter attack. If that’s the clubs vision of the future then it’s beneficial, if not those foundations have to be smashed up.

Sadly, we live in a post-truth world, where objective facts don't matter any more, it's all about feelings, and if they feel that foundations are being laid, it's how they feel and no amount of evidence matters more then their subjective feelings.

 

[romufc]

Any evidence for the new foundations being built now? Ighalo on loan foundation for the future?
Harry Maguire as our saviour for big money? Loaning out Sanchez so he could return with better form?
Selling half the squad without replacing them?
Attacking style of play? A winning style? Any style at all?
Aiming for guys like Longstaff and King?
Improving the players in training that will show years after he is gone?
New super culture that will lift everyone?

Yes actually, I can see some foundations being laid.

Ighalo 6 month loan is a fill in cause Rashford is injured, if you do not understand this signing then there is a different issue.

Maguire is not a saviour, he is a leader and a good defender, we concede less chances

So you reading that we are aiming for longstaff and King, I bet you the same sources will say we looking at Grealish, Maddison and Sancho too - so fair play to you for picking the stories that help your agenda.

Improving players, Rashford is having his best season, Fred looks better, McTominay, Martial is improving. He has brought in Greenwood and WIlliams.

SO much negativity from fans and media and yet the squad morale is good.

He is targetting signings that are here for the future not just to help him succeed in the short run. If you cannot see the transfer target shift, then again you need to look again. We didn't panic in the summer and buy a ST by overpaying and decided to wait another year.

Even if we bought a ST we wouldn't compete for the league. I would rather lay foundations to win it when we actually have a chance to.

 

[Roboc7]

Sadly, we live in a post-truth world, where objective facts don't matter any more, it's all about feelings, and if they feel that foundations are being laid, it's how they feel and no amount of evidence matters more then their subjective feelings.

Exactly and people use words without actually thinking about what they mean or the implications.

Supposedly Ole is buying for the future but no one knows how the next manager will play or what players they will want. He hasn’t bought anyone that is a top class player, Maguire isn’t and never will be VVD for instance.

So all he is really doing is what any manager does buying and selling players, he’s even shown recently he is prepared to panic but by trying to buy Josh King. If the next manager wants a RB that can attack and doesn’t rate Dan James it would not be a shock and that would be more foundations gone.

There is still no set philosophy at the club so he cannot be laying foundations unless the next manager wants to play the same way.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Yes actually, I can see some foundations being laid.

Ighalo 6 month loan is a fill in cause Rashford is injured, if you do not understand this signing then there is a different issue.

Maguire is not a saviour, he is a leader and a good defender, we concede less chances

So you reading that we are aiming for longstaff and King, I bet you the same sources will say we looking at Grealish, Maddison and Sancho too - so fair play to you for picking the stories that help your agenda.

Improving players, Rashford is having his best season, Fred looks better, McTominay, Martial is improving. He has brought in Greenwood and WIlliams.

SO much negativity from fans and media and yet the squad morale is good.

He is targetting signings that are here for the future not just to help him succeed in the short run. If you cannot see the transfer target shift, then again you need to look again. We didn't panic in the summer and buy a ST by overpaying and decided to wait another year.

Even if we bought a ST we wouldn't compete for the league. I would rather lay foundations to win it when we actually have a chance to.

Ighalo as a panic buy. We didn't have enough attackers from the start. One players gets injured and we are pushed to rush for a striker.
We have 5 clean sheets this season. Not very solid given how few points we have. If we scored loads and still won games it would matter less, but we have not so keeping clean sheet is more important than it is for say Man City.
Yeah you got a point that speculations should not matter. I do not know what we actually do when it comes to negociations, but we have been very poor in the market under him in my opinion when it comes to the results.
Half the players have got worse under him. It is hard how much Ole is to do with all those things. Although as a team we have got worse which is on him.
I think he might deserve some credit for Rashfords ability to score goals this season.
Although his problems in the build up and how to play against defensive sides is something that we have not improved upon even with Rashford.

Hard to know how good the morale is. It is probably better than the end during Mourinhos time here and it was very high after that when Ole took over. Although we do not look to play with much confidence this season. Rashford did, but he is probably one of few that has this season and we know he is naturally a very strong character with high confidence.
Greenwood has shown some confidence too, but has declined now near the end a bit. His management of Williams has been pretty good gradually giving him games so would give him some credit for him.

How shall we be able to attract top players when we might even miss Europa league? Pogba might leave too. Not seeing how he is making it easier for us to bring top players in for future windows.

 

[el3mel]

We're the only big club in the world in which failing managers get excused by things like culture or foundations. I guess some just want to prove they have longer sight than us "glory hunters". Once he's sacked and the next manager comes in and throws pretty much everything Ole did out of the window people will know these cultural changing things are just BS.

 

[Bilbo]

I guess some just want to prove they have longer sight than us "glory hunters"

Nailed it. That's what this is. It's about proving something to people who we dont know personally and never will.

It can just be what people genuinely believe you know.

 

[Roboc7]

We're the only big club in the world in which failing managers get excused by things like culture or foundations. I guess some just want to prove they have longer sight than us "glory hunters". Once he's sacked and the next manager comes in and throws pretty much everything Ole did out of the window people will now these cultural changing things are just BS.

And that’s what will happen, someone will come in and want to start again. Ole himself will have to change what he is doing completely if he wants to succeed. It’s not just new players, new coaching, new tactics, introduce a style of play. Ole hasn’t done anything that sets him apart or he can point to as progress. It’s just spend more money now on better players and hope if covers his inadequacies.

Truth as well is that the transfer policy has changed before he got here and will continue when he is gone. The board didn’t want to back Jose because he wanted short term signings, Ole is now working within those parameters as any successor will. He wasn’t trying to buy Josh King to lay foundations, or as part of a wider transfer policy.

 

[Seij]

I'm one of those weaklings that think OGS is the right man for the job. The club has a serious need to rebuild. But for his first year in charge he was handed a team with only one proven central midfielder and he has been injured for pretty much the whole season. But the last two summer transfer periods the club has not spent all that much. For 18/19 it was 52 million and for 19/20 it was 87 million. But that 87 million is misleading because the net investment in the club has to be reduced by a conservative 40 million for letting Herrera go for nothing. For this season we brought in two proven good players and one championship longshot while losing two proven good players go without replacement. That's not a rebuild.

OGS has been rebuilding the only way open to him and in a way in which he is uniquely qualified. He's working with younger players and improving them. Seven of his players have made significant improvement; i.e. Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Fred, Williams, Greenwood and Lindelof.

Add AWB, Maguire and Fernandes to those seven and you have the making of what looks like a top 4 team. The goalkeeper is not that bad either. The problem is the team has no depth and, up until now, not more than two proven central midfielders. It's very hard to break defensive teams down without a full complement central midfield. In fact it's hard to be much of a tactician when you don't have substitutes. There is still a need to strengthen defense, offense, and central midfield assuming Pogba leaves.

Losing our three most essential players to injury for so long has been a disaster. It would be difficult for any team. But with United's paperthin squad pretty much any injury create serious problems. That's where the next rebuild should be coming. It will be interesting to see what OGS can do with other than a makeshift team. Maybe he's tactically lacking and that's why the team can't break down the teams that park the bus but it's not possible to tell when he's had to play pretty much the whole season without a full central midfield. The true test will come when Pogba returns. That's assuming his injury can heal without a new Madrid postal code.

Greenwood and Williams were promoted this season. Is this considered as "significantly improving" them?

McTominay was already on the upward projectory under Mourinho and playing solidly. He is also getting near his prime playing years whereas under Mourinho he was a 20-21 year old who had just been promoted to the 1st team.

Rashford is now a 22 year old with 170 senior appearances under his belt for United and England. I'd say it was more likely that he would improve with age and experience rather than decline as it happens for most players.

Is Martial really significantly improved under Ole? I don't know about that. He still comes across as a player with pace and very good dribbling skills but inconsistent. He is also significantly more experienced now than when he first started playing for Mourinho.

Fred barely got any games under Mourinho as he came during the summer Mourinho threw a fit at Woodward and crashed the ship so that he can get paid off and leave.

Is Lindelof really that much better now than he was under Mourinho? I don't think so. In fact, I think many fans started to notice his flaws more during this season.

I honestly think it's grasping at the straws to make the argument that Ole did a job on these players that no other average or below average manager would have.


If there one thing I can truly give Ole a massive round of applause for is his ability to play up this "rebuild" fantasy to keep a job he's massively underqualified for forever.

 

[Adnan]

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[clarkydaz]

First team coach calls the shots in how the team are coached?

 

[Adnan]

First team coach calls the shots in how the team are coached?

McKenna being a better coach than Ole might not be too far fetched tbh.

 

[Cardboard elk]

If there one thing I can truly give Ole a massive round of applause for is his ability to play up this "rebuild" fantasy to keep a job he's massively underqualified for forever.

Fantasy? In which way is the re-build a fantasy? All the players gone out are a fantasy? The focus on fitness levels, pressing and style of play is a fantasy? The 3 year plan is a fantasy? The purchases of young hungry players is a fantasy? I think Ole has done all he promised to do, he said from the beginning this was going to take time. And if you had not noticed, the squad was pretty fecked up when he took over, and still is far from good enough. You are the one with the fantasy imo.

A Re-build takes time. And in the long run is the best thing to do. Short term quick fixes will deliver short term successes and failures. Slowly rebuilding correctly gives long lasting success. But not instant glory.

Ole In / downfall to the keyboard warrior condescenders

 

[Bilbo]

Greenwood and Williams were promoted this season. Is this considered as "significantly improving" them?

McTominay was already on the upward projectory under Mourinho and playing solidly. He is also getting near his prime playing years whereas under Mourinho he was a 20-21 year old who had just been promoted to the 1st team.

Rashford is now a 22 year old with 170 senior appearances under his belt for United and England. I'd say it was more likely that he would improve with age and experience rather than decline as it happens for most players.

Is Martial really significantly improved under Ole? I don't know about that. He still comes across as a player with pace and very good dribbling skills but inconsistent. He is also significantly more experienced now than when he first started playing for Mourinho.

Fred barely got any games under Mourinho as he came during the summer Mourinho threw a fit at Woodward and crashed the ship so that he can get paid off and leave.

Is Lindelof really that much better now than he was under Mourinho? I don't think so. In fact, I think many fans started to notice his flaws more during this season.

I honestly think it's grasping at the straws to make the argument that Ole did a job on these players that no other average or below average manager would have.


If there one thing I can truly give Ole a massive round of applause for is his ability to play up this "rebuild" fantasy to keep a job he's massively underqualified for forever.

So basically anything good that's happened cannot be taken as a positive because any other manager would also definitely have done the same thing, and anything bad that happens is another bullet to fire because any other manager would definitely have done better.

Doesnt strike me as very fair analysis, but a great example of why theres really no point in anyone having this debate anymore