Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Karlos PFC]

Well not to be pedantic, what I call impatience can also accurately be described as naive, spoilt opinions of fans too demanding for instant success to see the wood for the trees and notice the very obvious improvements the current manager has implemented since he arrived on and off the pitch, our consistent improvement season on season and the painfully obvious improved direction for the club.

Comparing managers in cup competitions is almost entirely pointless.

How many times has Ole beaten Tuchel? That argument is every bit as flawed as comparing them in knockout competitions.

Or perhaps compare the two initial 4-5 month periods each manager had upon their arrival in the PL? Again same logic. Ole wins them all except a cup competition comparison.

This is the same naive approach many take to comparing managers and subsequently underrating our own.

Nobody claims the improvements under Ole have been done in light-speed time, but the improvements have been there from the start.

There is a big difference between having ‘blind faith’ and being observant.

I agree that comparing managers in cup competitions is pointless but if we hypothetically lost against Roma, questions needed to be ask.

I get that at a cup competition you may qualify or not for various reasons (form, rotation, coaching, player fatigue and so) but as I said if Roma got through us, then Ole (or whoever is the manager) clearly does something wrong. We're not West Brom or a team like that, we are one of the richest and more powerful clubs worldwide.

I couldn't care less how many times Ole beat Pep, Tuchel or Poch or whomever. A great coach is a great coach. Ole has beaten Pep 4 or 5 times but Pep is still the greatest manager of his generation. Being beaten by Ole doesn't prove anything. For example I can't rate Moyes based on a freak season or because maybe won against City, United, Chelsea...

I'm not trying to under-rate Ole, maybe he was just what United needed at the time. He is not the PE teacher some were saying but also for me he is nothing special to hang on to just because he is a legend of the club.

Just wondering who you might seem suitable as a proven manager for united? Poch? Not even winning Ligue 1at the moment. As an outsider I'd say he's done a tremendous job getting rid of deadwood and starting a rebuild, all along having the players on his side, which is not easy to do.

Btw we're also getting a manager that has never really won anything, and still I'm excited for what Nagelsmann can bring to Bayern. Accolades aren't everything.

I don't know who would be best for United, that's a job for the specialists, data analysts and football directors of the club.

As a personal preference I rate Poch, Nagelsmann, Tuchel, Rodgers, of course Pep and Klopp. (I'm aware of all the criticism that will be heading my way for either one of those).

I believe every one of the above would do a great job for the long term except Tuchel (great football but he gets in constant fights with the owners, directors and so he wouldn't last over 2/3 years and of course he won't at Chelsea)

 

[RUCK4444]

I agree that comparing managers in cup competitions is pointless but if we hypothetically lost against Roma, questions needed to be ask.

I get that at a cup competition you may qualify or not for various reasons (form, rotation, coaching, player fatigue and so) but as I said if Roma got through us, then Ole (or whoever is the manager) clearly does something wrong. We're not West Brom or a team like that, we are one of the richest and more powerful clubs worldwide.

I couldn't care less how many times Ole beat Pep, Tuchel or Poch or whomever. A great coach is a great coach. Ole has beaten Pep 4 or 5 times but Pep is still the greatest manager of his generation. Being beaten by Ole doesn't prove anything. For example I can't rate Moyes based on a freak season or because maybe won against City, United, Chelsea...

I'm not trying to under-rate Ole, maybe he was just what United needed at the time. He is not the PE teacher some were saying but also for me he is nothing special to hang on to just because he is a legend of the club.

So what does it take from Ole to prove it to you?

Let's take this season as an example. If finishing second in the league comfortably, losing LESS games than Pep and potentially outscoring his team but ultimately not winning the league against what you describe yourself as the best manager of his generation, who happens to be managing the richest club in world football (who spend hundreds of millions on fullbacks alone) - if that's not enough and ONLY winning the PL under those circumstances is enough... then you will be potentially waiting a long time for the one you deem suitable for United.

If that's the bar your setting then you are simply blinding yourself from a manager who is making sound progress, so nobody will be good enough.

What has Tuchel done in his time at Chelsea that Ole didn't do in his first three months at the club? Taking away a CL final that we both agree now is a flawed measurement.

Every time an opposition manager has a good spell the same section of the fan base ignore all the positives we've already seen at United and use it as a stick to beat Ole with. We had posters here asking for Ole to go and Ralph Hasenhuttle to get the job ffs.

 

[Gavinb33]

The comments from Cavani today shows how much the players love the manager and how he treats them, when the players believe like this it's easy to see why they are showing it on the pitch

 

[Mainoldo]

The comments from Cavani today shows how much the players love the manager and how he treats them, when the players believe like this it's easy to see why they are showing it on the pitch

Rooney 2014:

"I am really excited to be a part of the club's future and want to thank David Moyes and Ed Woodward for their belief and support in me. I am convinced that this is the start of another successful chapter in Manchester United's history."

It’s all good PR at the end of the day. I wouldn’t have excepted anything different. Did you want Cavani to criticise management

 

[Grylte]

Did you want Cavani to criticise management

Strange... i'm sure many of you guys wanted Ole to do it to his bosses just a couple weeks back.

 

[Hakara]

Rooney 2014:

"I am really excited to be a part of the club's future and want to thank David Moyes and Ed Woodward for their belief and support in me. I am convinced that this is the start of another successful chapter in Manchester United's history."

It’s all good PR at the end of the day. I wouldn’t have excepted anything different. Did you want Cavani to criticise management

Can't all be for PR? Luke Shaw has spoken about it. Pogba aka "the virus" has spoken about it. His man management seems to be pretty damn good. I used to read all sorts of slander leaking to the press about united during the grumpy ones reign, and now I only see positives.

 

[Mainoldo]

Strange... i'm sure many of you guys wanted Ole to do it to his bosses just a couple weeks back.

Who me?? I’m not part of a gang

 

[Eriku]

I would say that Liverpool have come the back of a league and CL, with little to prove and an off season, Chelsea changed manager and could be about to win the CL and FA cup.

Finishing second and winning the Europa league, we’ve been here before. For me the test for Ole is whether he can kick on and challenge for top honours next season.

Let’s not forget, we were top of the league at one point and completely blew it, and comfortably top of our CL group and somehow blew that too.

Jose totally sacrificed our league run-in for EL, 2nd place was not in the same season. And with Liverpool having been such a massive run-away winner last year, you’d expect them to mount a bigger challenge. The 7-2 loss to Villa was before Van Dijk disappeared as well.

Anyway, no need to be in one extreme or the other. Just saying the scales often seem unfairly tipped when assessing how we should have fared this season. Especially when you consider that we’ve had the roughest fixture list this season.

 

[Tarrou]

Rooney 2014:

"I am really excited to be a part of the club's future and want to thank David Moyes and Ed Woodward for their belief and support in me. I am convinced that this is the start of another successful chapter in Manchester United's history."

It’s all good PR at the end of the day. I wouldn’t have excepted anything different. Did you want Cavani to criticise management

christ are you still going?

when are you paying me my £10 for being wrong about Ole by the way?

 

[AR87]

Jose totally sacrificed our league run-in for EL, 2nd place was not in the same season. And with Liverpool having been such a massive run-away winner last year, you’d expect them to mount a bigger challenge. The 7-2 loss to Villa was before Van Dijk disappeared as well.

The hilarious part about this is that even after VVD got hurt they went on a winning run, and their match against Spurs in December was billed as a potential title decider. People can say what they want about injuries but Liverpool's form has been a joke for the majority of this season.

 

[Mainoldo]

christ are you still going?

when are you paying me my £10 for being wrong about Ole by the way?

As soon as I get my money from my bet that we wouldn’t make top 4 under Mourinho in his final season.

Find that guy who’s been hiding from me for years and he can transfer his debts directly to you.

 

[Tarrou]

As soon as I get my money from my bet that we wouldn’t make top 4 under Mourinho in his final season.

Find that guy who’s been hiding from me for years and he can transfer his debts directly to you.

bollocks will I

I tell you what, I'll forgo the tenner if you start a thread saying you were wrong about Ole

you can't say fairer than that

 

[Mainoldo]

bollocks will I

I tell you what, I'll forgo the tenner if you start a thread saying you were wrong about Ole

you can't say fairer than that

In the words of Vincent Kennedy McMahon .

No chance in hell.

 

[Tarrou]

In the words of Vincent Kennedy McMahon .

No chance in hell.

Why not?

You made 1000s of posts and it's beyond all shadow of a doubt that you were completely and utterly wrong

You should be happy Ole's doing great!

edit: Imagine what it feels like to actually support your team when they are doing well under the helm of a legend? It's quite good!

 

[Mainoldo]

Why not?

You made 1000s of posts and it's beyond all shadow of a doubt that you were completely and utterly wrong

You should be happy Ole's doing great!

edit: Imagine what it feels like to actually support your team when they are doing well under the helm of a legend? It's quite good!

Im not wrong. He’s only still there because we have Woodward and the Glazers. Absolute incompetence.

But I’m very happy we are comfortably second and not impressed we are in a reject European final when I see Chelsea are in the real final. But I hope he can get his hands on a trophy. Would be a nice personal managerial achievement for him.

Now that’s as nice as I get for Ole.

 

[Bebestation]

Im not wrong. He’s only still there because we have Woodward and the Glazers. Absolute incompetence.

But I’m very happy we are comfortably second and not impressed we are in a reject European final when I see Chelsea are in the real final. But I hope he can get his hands on a trophy. Would be a nice personal managerial achievement for him.

Now that’s as nice as I get for Ole.

Wow

 

[Berbasbullet]

As soon as I get my money from my bet that we wouldn’t make top 4 under Mourinho in his final season.

Find that guy who’s been hiding from me for years and he can transfer his debts directly to you.

Hmm this better not be your attitude to our bet when you lose tonight.

 

[Tarrou]

Im not wrong. He’s only still there because we have Woodward and the Glazers. Absolute incompetence.

But I’m very happy we are comfortably second and not impressed we are in a reject European final when I see Chelsea are in the real final. But I hope he can get his hands on a trophy. Would be a nice personal managerial achievement for him.

Now that’s as nice as I get for Ole.

truly outstanding dedication to the cause

 

[Mainoldo]

Hmm this better not be your attitude to our bet when you lose tonight.

He ain’t playing. Juan Mata still lives

 

[Tarrou]

Hmm this better not be your attitude to our bet when you lose tonight.

if you win you're behind me in the queue!

 

[Berbasbullet]

He ain’t playing. Juan Mata still lives

we will see! If he doesn’t see anything tonight then I might be done for.

 

[anant]

Im not wrong. He’s only still there because we have Woodward and the Glazers. Absolute incompetence.

But I’m very happy we are comfortably second and not impressed we are in a reject European final when I see Chelsea are in the real final. But I hope he can get his hands on a trophy. Would be a nice personal managerial achievement for him.

Now that’s as nice as I get for Ole.

How the feck do you still have the gall to still go in!

Had I been this wrong and doubled down every time on my claim like you did, I'd have taken a long break from this thread/forum

 

[Berbasbullet]

He ain’t playing. Juan Mata still lives

Ole was asked if Amad or Shoretire will make an appearance and he said there was a great chance just depends whether it’s from the bench or starting.

Today is the day my friend! I can feel it in my jellys.

He also said he has a chance and is training well! It’s happening!

 

[CG1010]

Slowly, Ole has managed to cut down his doubters and nay-sayers to those people who won't accept Ole can be a real United manager who can win big trophies till he actually does! Even then a few will refuse to actually belittle those victories. Until then, this group will continue to berate Ole by giving examples of the latest manager who is doing well in the world of football.

 

[pierrethesnack]

Im not wrong. He’s only still there because we have Woodward and the Glazers. Absolute incompetence.

I don't really understand this. Do you think any available coaches then or now would have done better?

 

[Mainoldo]

How the feck do you still have the gall to still go in!

Had I been this wrong and doubled down every time on my claim like you did, I'd have taken a long break from this thread/forum

Clearly I don’t think I’m wrong! Therefore I have no shame

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't really understand this. Do you think any available coaches then or now would have done better?

Yeah. Quite a few. It’s Ole not Pep. I’m sure he can be easily replaced. But he’s done a good job for himself.

Just depends what you want from your manager doesn’t it. Antonio Valencia as a player had two very impressive seasons with us. I don’t think he would get in our top 5 wingers though (Just an analogy).

Anyway I don’t want to start long winded negative debates. I just thought what G Nev said last night was spot on and that people should take a look. That’s all.

 

[pierrethesnack]

Yeah. Quite a few. It’s Ole not Pep. I’m sure he can be easily replaced. But he’s done a good job for himself.

Just depends what you want from your manager doesn’t it. Antonio Valencia as a player had two very impressive seasons with us. I don’t think he would get in our top 5 wingers though (Just an analogy).

Anyway I don’t want to start long winded negative debates. I just thought what G Nev said last night was spot on and that people should take a look. That’s all.

I'm genuinely curious though, not looking to quarrel. Can you name a few available coaches you'd rather have after Mourinho left? Or who are avilable now?

I just don't see any hypothetical scenario which would have worked out better. We needed someone to fix all the toxicity of the post-SAF period, and also work on improving the team gradually within the financial constraints of the Glazers. He's done just that. I'd also rather have another club structure less reliant on the manager, but this is where we are.

 

[justsomebloke]

Im not wrong. He’s only still there because we have Woodward and the Glazers. Absolute incompetence.

But I’m very happy we are comfortably second and not impressed we are in a reject European final when I see Chelsea are in the real final. But I hope he can get his hands on a trophy. Would be a nice personal managerial achievement for him.

Now that’s as nice as I get for Ole.

So...you're happy with how things have turned out, but you're not going to let that prevent you from continuing to believe it would have been better if something different had been done? Because.....well because what, exactly?

Some might see that as pig-headedness.

 

[MattyLT]

Some, like Pep, Arteta, Sarri, etc almost seem to get off on making football appear "so, so complicated" and it appears some fans and most football writers seem to swallow it hook, line and sinker;

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/football-gobbledygook-generator.html

 

[Withnail]

Rooney 2014:

"I am really excited to be a part of the club's future and want to thank David Moyes and Ed Woodward for their belief and support in me. I am convinced that this is the start of another successful chapter in Manchester United's history."

It’s all good PR at the end of the day. I wouldn’t have excepted anything different. Did you want Cavani to criticise management

Not your best work.

He's really not giving you much material to work with these days is he, mate?

 

[Withnail]

Hmm this better not be your attitude to our bet when you lose tonight.

Whats the bet?

 

[Lux Thunder]

What does that even mean? I think there is a fundamental divide about how complicated football needs to be. Some, like Pep, Arteta, Sarri, etc almost seem to get off on making football appear "so, so complicated" and it appears some fans and most football writers seem to swallow it hook, line and sinker; whereas Managers who usually talk in simplified terms about playing with confidence and freedom and working hard are derided as "not knowing what he's talking about". It's complete nonsense.

Agree completely.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Einstein.

We already had great "masterminds" and apparently, world-class managers in LVG and Mourinho and that didn't really work out. Ole is the only one who makes me feel positive about the future, both short-term as well as long-term.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Whats the bet?

5 quid on Amad getting a single second of premier league football this season. tonight’s the big one.

 

[Withnail]

5 quid on Amad getting a single second of premier league football this season. tonight’s the big one.

Last chance Saloon there but you may be saved by the protest.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Last chance Saloon there but you may be saved by the protest.

I’ll take any win

 

[Skeezix]

With top 4 more or less secured, Ole can have some fun with his selection in the game against Leicester today.
The mid-table clubs - Liverpool, Leicester, West Ham and Spurs will be watching out intently on the match. And there won't be pleasing all. What a nice position to be in for us.
I for one wish that Ole selects the reserve for this match and we still manage a win or draw to go full strength against Pool on Thursday. Klopp will be fuming. Hah!

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm genuinely curious though, not looking to quarrel. Can you name a few available coaches you'd rather have after Mourinho left? Or who are avilable now?

I just don't see any hypothetical scenario which would have worked out better. We needed someone to fix all the toxicity of the post-SAF period, and also work on improving the team gradually within the financial constraints of the Glazers. He's done just that. I'd also rather have another club structure less reliant on the manager, but this is where we are.

See Chelsea.

 

[Mainoldo]

Not your best work.

He's really not giving you much material to work with these days is he, mate?

. It’s been a while I had to drop something in.

 

[Mainoldo]

So...you're happy with how things have turned out, but you're not going to let that prevent you from continuing to believe it would have been better if something different had been done? Because.....well because what, exactly?

Some might see that as pig-headedness.

Not really. I’ve gone over this point numerous times. We are here but there is absolutely nothing that says if we didn’t just hire Conte we would be lifting a Premier League title like Inter now following his methods on how he seena rebuild. After all he took enough of our players.

All in all he’s done a good job for his standard. My standards are just different and I see a lot of things in his management that a believe a better manager wouldn’t have made.

You can bring up LVG and Mourinho if you want. But history shows how they manage clubs and there time under us is no big blimp in how they‘ve managed over the years. LVG was just a lot older and outdated and Jose well if you could do a line graph on performance you’ll probably just notice he’s getting progressively worse.