Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Mainoldo]

Hold on a second? Did we get through to the final? Are we playing Villa?

The divide is so bad in here we are taking an overall semi-final loss as a victory of those who want Ole gone.

Maybe know we can see how standards are falling.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

• We play counter attack because that fits our squad the best. Also, since when did counter attack suddenly become "small time" tactics? Liverpool are doing it currently and they are walking the league and have yet to lose this season. Just because Barcelona looked amazing at the turn of the decade does not mean possession football is superior

Masterclass i dont know, but it was a solid tactical performance from us

Liverpool are a great counter attacking team, but they're just as capable when they're dominating possession.

We're much worse whenever we dominate possession vs a side(and are often incapable of it in the big games).

 

[Ludens the Red]

Oles set up was good. He was let down by our attack but then if he insists on Lingard that’s what’s going to happen.
But how many times do you see a team completely shut out city as we did from the middle part of that match. That can’t be ignored.
If someone actually had the balls to shoot during that passage of play before Matic’ red that last 15 could have been very different.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Ole in “passive mode” : Be more angry!

Ole gets furious: He’s only doing it to save his job and do what he’s told!

This place is f*cking tragic.

No one is ever happy here, always finding ways to downplay things or spin them negatively, even things that you actually WANT to happen.

 

[crossy1686]

Getting dumped out of a semi-final is a win now. Standards keep dropping by the day.

Dumped out? We shit the bed in the first leg but won the second leg and went out by one goal to a team who won the league with record points last season. People are allowed to be satisfied with the result and performance without it be a dropping of standards. Have a day off.

 

[crossy1686]

Hold on a second? Did we get through to the final? Are we playing Villa?

The divide is so bad in here we are taking an overall semi-final loss as a victory of those who want Ole gone.

Maybe know we can see how standards are falling.

Has anyone actually said any of this?

We beat City in their own back yard again, against apparently the best manager ever to grace the game and a superior team. Being content with a win is fine but no body is over the moon about losing a semi final over two legs.

 

[Mainoldo]

Ole in “passive mode” : Be more angry!

Ole gets furious: He’s only doing it to save his job and do what he’s told!

This place is f*cking tragic.

No one is ever happy here, always finding ways to downplay things or spin them negatively, even things that you actually WANT to happen.

Why is that?

 

[Mainoldo]

Has anyone actually said any of this?

We beat City in their own back yard again, against apparently the best manager ever to grace the game and a superior team. Being content with a win is fine but no body is over the moon about losing a semi final over two legs.

Actually sounds like your boasting..

 

[crossy1686]

Actually sounds like your boasting..

Am I not allowed to be happy that we beat City again? Would you prefer it if we got beat instead?

 

[jackal&hyde]

You're watching and observing something in another dimension then. If this guy wants to compare his situation to Klopp and Liverpool every 8 hours then let us look at how Liverpool's style transformed even with sub-optimal players. You could see the system, where it was going immediately. Upgrades took them up a further notch.

Klopp and OGS (Premier League)

Klopp	15/16	16//17	17/18	18/19	19/20
Goals (For:Against)	55:40	78:42	84:38	89:22	56:15
Goals per game	1.83	2.05	2.21	2.34	2.33
OGS
Goals	-	-	-	36:25	36:29
Goals per game	-	-	1.79	1.72 (1.71 Mourinho)	1.50

Liverpool in 14/15 under Rogers, was 1.37 Gpg. For the beginning of 15/16, it was 1.0 Gpg.
United in 17/18 under Mourinho, was 1.79 Gpg.

The stats show the progression under Klopp immediately just like the superior changes in pressing and style were easily observed.

So now you can proceed to argue that Liverpool's 15/16 squad (which went to the Europa League final) with the likes of Benteke, Toure, Leiva, Clyne, Ibe, Moreno, Mignolet (all with at least 30 appearances) was superior to United this year and last.

Even United under OGS last year is below Klopp's first season at Liverpool in terms of Gpg.

How about we let the season end before making these comparisons though?

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Well i am no tactical expert (and i assume you are neither) so lets just take the obvious facts here

• We were away from home, in an incredibly difficult tie. We needed to attack, but the the same time if City score one or two its curtains. That balance is very hard to achieve
• City's squad is lightyears ahead of us, especially considering we have 3 first team players out, 4 if you count Bruno
• City and the ref were cnuts. They got away with tactical fouls all game, but then Matic is sent off for two similar fouls, the first one incredibly soft
• Pep is seen as superb coach, so considering the circumstances, he should easily just rip us apart right`?
• We play counter attack because that fits our squad the best. Also, since when did counter attack suddenly become "small time" tactics? Liverpool are doing it currently and they are walking the league and have yet to lose this season. Just because Barcelona looked amazing at the turn of the decade does not mean possession football is superior

Masterclass i dont know, but it was a solid tactical performance from us

Agree with everything above. We just have to accept where we are at the moment and that doesn't mean we have lowered the standards. We all know who is to blame but win /lose/ draw Ole still gets flak.

 

[Bobcat]

Liverpool are a great counter attacking team, but they're just as capable when they're dominating possession.

We're much worse whenever we dominate possession vs a side(and are often incapable of it in the big games).

And that in my honest opinion is when player quality becomes super important. Our big problem so far this season vs low blocks is that without Pogba we completely lack anyone who can create space by inviting pressure onto themselves. Again, and again we see our midfield advance, only to halt to a complete stop once a player pushes out to defend 1on1. Rashford has been great this season, but we all know hes at his best when he's got space and operating in. Martial can glide past players, but when opponents have settled their defense hes usually marked by 2 or more players and have zero space.

Hopefully Bruno can remedy some of this, but so far we have had zero threat from central areas when attacking low blocks, which means we always end up shifting it wide.

Here comes problem no 2. James and to some extent Williams who occupy the wide areas can put in a decent cross, but not many others. I think AWB has improved his attacking movements this season, but his delivery still leaves a lot to be desired. When we do manage to put in a dangerous cross though comes problem no 3: Way to often there is no one there and if they are there they are not in the correct position.

 

[shaky]

Am I not allowed to be happy that we beat City again? Would you prefer it if we got beat instead?

I think a lot of people here are disappointed that we didn't get hammered.

 

[Bilbo]

Hold on a second? Did we get through to the final? Are we playing Villa?

The divide is so bad in here we are taking an overall semi-final loss as a victory of those who want Ole gone.

Maybe know we can see how standards are falling.

Just the same way as people will obsess over a press conference comment, or who took a free kick, or why a player was played in that match, or made up transfer stories, or etc etc etc etc

That's the difference between this 'divide' that has been created on here. One side of this divide are looking for anything negative, literally anything at all, to have a go at the club. The other side are celebrating a win (albeit a tainted one) against City. Think about that, and the side of that coin that you are on.

Standards aren't being dropped. People are just realistic about where we are at the moment.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I thought Ole did okay last night - we didn't get embarrassed, he showed a bit of grit, time to move on. We aren't good enough to beat City over two legs, especially with injuries. Our full-strength team would've gone through last night, though.

Anyway, onto more important matters. Signing a last ditch striker and the weekend game.

 

[crossy1686]

I think a lot of people here are disappointed that we didn't get hammered.

It's a sad state of affairs when your own fans want your team to lose so they can be justified in their self-loathing and vitriol. We should start a suicide watch group for certain users when we win.

 

[Ish]

"Nice guy Ole"

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Pretty great to see

 

[Real Madras]

Tactical masterclass.

You have to admit it was nice to see ole get absolutely mad at Lingard. Screaming one more time and you’re fecking off is something I’ve not seen from him before! I like it

 

[Mainoldo]

Am I not allowed to be happy that we beat City again? Would you prefer it if we got beat instead?

No.. you do you. Got no problem with anyone being happy. We all have different standards which is why we have debates.

 

[Mainoldo]

I think a lot of people here are disappointed that we didn't get hammered.

Maybe a lot of people just preferred we got to a final. How about that?

 

[BusbyMalone]

I think the game just solidified what we are under Ole and who we are as a club at the moment. We thrive when we're the complete underdog with zero expectation on us and when nobody expects us to do anything. We certainly wasn't bad last night, and there was plenty of effort and probably did way better than anyone expected. Obviously he deserves credit for that, and if he had Bruno earlier and dropped him in for someone like Lingard then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could've gone through.

We limited City somewhat, although they outplayed us for 15/20 minutes or so the first half and for periods of the second, but it wasn't a massacre like many expected. But we do tend to come out of these sorts of games with a bit of pride and dignity (however patronising that sounds), and that's because the pressure on us is so low. It's basically what you see from so-called smaller teams when they play the big boys; the expectation is so low, you almost can't lose.

The issue is, can Ole be the man who can take us back to where the expectation weighs heavily, and we perform with it. He's still showing no sign of it for me.

 

[crossy1686]

No.. you do you. Got no problem with anyone being happy. We all have different standards which is why we have debates.

Then what's the difference in our personal standards? We both want United to win and be successful, no one is happy with the current state of affairs, we want to win silverware, finishing outside the top 3 is unacceptable for a club the size of United.

We beat a rival away from home with a piss poor team fielded, which is something even Fergie had trouble doing on most occasions. We lost the tie due to the home leg but won the away leg. We've been knocked out of cups before at earlier stages, I remember being at Old Trafford and watching Coventry and Leeds knock us out of cup competitions.

This talk of different standards around here is just certain posters claiming to be 'top reds' while the rest of us have apparently lost our way. If you can't find some enjoyment in the result last night then it speaks more about your general happiness and outlook on life.

 

[crossy1686]

Maybe a lot of people just preferred we got to a final. How about that?

There's not a single fecking United fan in the world that wouldn't prefer that...

Probably a bunch of neutral fans who also don't want City to win it again. I don't know why you're pretending people are happy at being knocked out?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

You have to admit it was nice to see ole get absolutely mad at Lingard. Screaming one more time and you’re fecking off is something I’ve not seen from him before! I like it

I mean he shouldnt have played him from the start.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I mean he shouldnt have played him from the start.

His other option is Pereira, so its a case of choosing between between a toilet paper or tea cloth to shield yourself in a gun fight.

 

[romufc]

His other option is Pereira, so its a case of choosing between between a toilet paper or tea cloth to shield yourself in a gun fight.

This is not Ole's fault that we do not have a creative midfielder. He has probably the two worst ones to chose from.

 

[el3mel]

His other option is Pereira, so its a case of choosing between between a toilet paper or tea cloth to shield yourself in a gun fight.

We could just play without number 10 you know.

 

[DFreshKing]

I mean he shouldnt have played him from the start.

Who should have played 10?

Can people not even appreciated Ole has again fixed a weakness in the squad and just bought a replacement for Lingard? He obviously wanted to do that in the summer but ineptness above thwarted him just as Maguire's delay coming did for JM.

 

[romufc]

We could just play without number 10 you know.

And play who?

 

[MikeKing]

We could just play without number 10 you know.

So with 9 outfield players? Well we'd probably be as effective as playing with Lingard and Pereira there at times

 

[el3mel]

So with 9 outfield players? Well we'd probably be as effective as playing with Lingard and Pereira there at times

There are like 100 formations that don't include a clear number 10. Are you saying every team in the world plays with a number 10 behind a striker?

If you don't have a good number 10, don't play a formation that requires one. Easy!

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I think the game just solidified what we are under Ole and who we are as a club at the moment. We thrive when we're the complete underdog with zero expectation on us and when nobody expects us to do anything. We certainly wasn't bad last night, and there was plenty of effort and probably did way better than anyone expected. Obviously he deserves credit for that, and if he had Bruno earlier and dropped him in for someone like Lingard then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could've gone through.

We limited City somewhat, although they outplayed us for 15/20 minutes or so the first half and for periods of the second, but it wasn't a massacre like many expected. But we do tend to come out of these sorts of games with a bit of pride and dignity (however patronising that sounds), and that's because the pressure on us is so low. It's basically what you see from so-called smaller teams when they play the big boys; the expectation is so low, you almost can't lose.

The issue is, can Ole be the man who can take us back to where the expectation weighs heavily, and we perform with it. He's still showing no sign of it for me.

No, he can't. We already have evidence of this. When he first took over and had zero expectations on his shoulders, he was The Big Man wasn't he - big talk, bold claims, oozing a bit of confidence. Lots of positive talk. The players followed suit - zero expectations, they hit a brilliant run of form.

As soon as he was made permanent, and the pressure turned up (as in, it seemed like top 4 was almost a certainty on our form)……….his attitude and demeanour changed, as did the form of the players.

He thrives in an underdog role and that is also true for the players. We need more strength from top to bottom and Ole isn't the character to provide that type of staunch leadership from the top down.

 

[DFreshKing]

There are like 100 formations that don't include a clear number 10. Are you saying every team in the world plays with a number 10 behind a striker?

If you don't have a good number 10, don't play a formation that requires one. Easy!

Who would play and what formation?

 

[JPRouve]

Am I not allowed to be happy that we beat City again? Would you prefer it if we got beat instead?

Some of us don't expect us to be battered at every opportunity, so logically we aren't going to be happy about a win in a game where we were mainly dominated and in the second leg when we were 2 goals down. There are no reasons to be happy, United are still one of the best teams in England, being in the top 6-7.

 

[Oldyella]

His other option is Pereira, so its a case of choosing between between a toilet paper or tea cloth to shield yourself in a gun fight.

Or Mata. Hes getting on but at least he can control a ball.

 

[krautrøck]

Is he telling JlingZ "you're fecking off" or "you're fecking off" if you know what I mean.

 

[MikeKing]

There are like 100 formations that don't include a clear number 10. Are you saying every team in the world plays with a number 10 behind a striker?

If you don't have a good number 10, don't play a formation that requires one. Easy!

I tend to agree with that. Based on quality, I'm not sure I have a solution that seems better. If our plan is to play a certain system but we lack a quality 10, I still think it is better to stick to that system and see that we need a 10 while other players learn that system than switch it all up just because one part sucks especially. But I do see your point.

 

[DFreshKing]

Some of us don't expect us to be battered at every opportunity, so logically we aren't going to be happy about a win in a game where we were mainly dominated and in the second leg when we were 2 goals down. There are no reasons to be happy, United are still one of the best teams in England, being in the top 6-7.

Did you watch our CL semi final win over Barca when SAF was manager and he had a championship winning team with players like Scholes at his disposal? Bet you weren't complaining that we was mostly dominated then....

 

[el3mel]

Who would play and what formation?

You know formation of last night you could just put James as a winger instead of Lingard as a 10?

 

[Born2Lose]

This place has more moaners per capita than mumsnet.