Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Robbie Boy]

Wait.. You don't see why it's not possible, then follow up with "with a few additions"?

Because I absolutely agree that we can get there with a few additions, but that wasn't the question.

It's about a hybrid approach of improving what we have and adding some quality. To be fair, people love to underrate the quality of the squad but it's nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.

We need big investment in some key areas and hopefully that happens. But then Ole needs to improve some of the players at his disposal. Look at what Klopp done with the likes of Salah, Henderson and Robertson. Would anyone realistically have wanted any of those here? Yet they were integral players in what was a damn good and successful side.

 

[Robbie Boy]

That's why I always say if we had Poch as our manager and had similar stats sitting in 2nd, many would have heaped praise on Poch and the squad. I feel a lot of criticism of Ole comes with the premeditated mindset that he is just a shit manager who is living his dream. I feel he is a decent manager who gets a lot of unfair criticism too. Yes he is not your pep or klopp but neither is he a shit manager.

Well I mean the fact that most oppos are celebrating his impending new contract says it all. He's not respected by oppo fans nor is he respected by the media. If we finish second it'll only be because of x, y and z. He won't get praised.

 

[TheGame]

Well I mean the fact that most oppos are celebrating his impending new contract says it all. He's not respected by oppo fans nor is he respected by the media. If we finish second it'll only be because of x, y and z. He won't get praised.

Who the feck cares about this as long as we are winning matches.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Who the feck cares about this as long as we are winning matches.

Eh? You should have followed the conversation.

 

[Leftback99]

Well I mean the fact that most oppos are celebrating his impending new contract says it all. He's not respected by oppo fans nor is he respected by the media. If we finish second it'll only be because of x, y and z. He won't get praised.

For me it just makes it better when we do well that they don't respect him and think he's useless. Oppo fans don't rate our players either, beyond Bruno (even then 'penalty merchant') if you asked who was our best player they would probably still say De Gea.

I wouldn't judge anything on opposition fans' opinions.

 

[VP89]

Yes, because this constant excuse making narrative needs to stop.

The cries of poverty are pathetic and misjudged seeing as we often top spending charts.

Ole's recruitment has been a mixed bag so far and despite claims some of his signings are being made without his approval (which frankly is bullshit and zero evidence suggests this is the case) he still has a squad, on paper, that should be there or thereabouts after 38 games.

The players he has at his disposal have, for the most part, been with him for 2 and half years now. The excuses need to stop. Ole needs to become ruthless with his underperformers and getting far more consistent performances over the majority of a season.

That's not fair - he doesn't have the explosive attack to his disposal that City have. Pep was able to splash 50m a pop on Bernado Silva and Mahrez, he had brought in Jesus and Ferran for a combined similar total whilst inheriting KDB and Augero. All things considered he walked in and spent 150ish million on an attack that already had Augero.

Ole has only spent on James as someone for immediacy. He had to buy Bruno to net off a KDB impact. I think if Ole got a Haaland or a Sancho sort of player, with a good 6 or CB, then sure it's more than fair to expect a title race.

 

[Anustart89]

Ole needs more support from the board this summer, if we are to make a proper PL title run. We're not one signing away from being a PL favorite, but probably 2-3 players -- of the right quality, of course -- away. If the board doesn't see sufficient financial value in making these outlays we'll continue to drift along in the top four hunt for as long as Ole is manager. And at least I believe Ole has shown that he can ably manage a squad with top four ambitions.

Whether he can manage a squad with PL title ambitions is unknown and can only be found out the hard way. Will this board ever invest the resources required to allow this or any United manager make a proper PL title run?

I agree that Ole needs backing from the board if they really want him to succeed. But Ole also has to have a contingency plan if he doesn’t get his primary target. It can’t be that we’re dicking around the entire summer for one player and end up empty handed in identified weak positions without a contingency plan.

There has to be some sort of falling scale of players that would be pursued to fill holes in the squad if we’re serious about challenging for a title next season. We can’t chase £80m players in every position and when they don’t pan out go “ah, we tried, we’ll have to do without a CB/RW/DM/ST and go again next year and then maybe we can challenge in two years”, because that’s how you end up going 30 years without a league title and in a constant rebuilding project.

 

[AshRK]

Well I mean the fact that most oppos are celebrating his impending new contract says it all. He's not respected by oppo fans nor is he respected by the media. If we finish second it'll only be because of x, y and z. He won't get praised.

But it's not just the oppo fans? Even here back in October many predicted us to finish outside top 4 or top 6 but now suddenly are claiming Ole is underperforming. Can't have both the ways.

 

[Robbie Boy]

But it's not just the oppo fans? Even here back in October many predicted us to finish outside top 4 or top 6 but now suddenly are claiming Ole is underperforming. Can't have both the ways.

Again, it's because some blatantly don't rate Ole. Sure look at some some of the fans in here; they make excuses for when we win ffs, rather than giving him credit. I wouldn't call it 'having it both ways' tbh - for me, some people refuse to give him credit or rate him so they'll constantly predict doom and gloom. They are basing it on their negative views of Ole rather than the quality of our squad.

 

[Handré1990]

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Most predictions didn't even have us in top 6 and now we are 2nd and yet some feel Ole is underperforming. Doesn't make sense.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago, more as a reminder to myself really. None of the biggest journos had us anywhere close to top either.

 

[Robbie Boy]

For me it just makes it better when we do well that they don't respect him and think he's useless. Oppo fans don't rate our players either, beyond Bruno (even then 'penalty merchant') if you asked who was our best player they would probably still say De Gea.

I wouldn't judge anything on opposition fans' opinions.

Football is all about tribalism for some; so yeah I wouldn't expect our manager or players to be rated too highly be most oppos. I mean, there's some delusion regarding Ole and our team, in that some make out we are absolutely awful. It's amusing to hear while we sit in second place.

I mean, I didn't and still don't rate a lot of that Liverpool squad but it didn't stop them having some brief success!

 

[anant]

Game Range​	Wins​	Draw​	Loses​	Clean Sheets​	Goals For​	Goals Against​	Points​	PPG​
First 44 Games​	21​	11​	12​	9​	72​	54​	74​	1.7​
Second 44 Games​	25​	14​	5​	21​	86​	41​	89​	2.0​

Despite us being defensively woeful at times we still have managed 21 clean sheets, honestly surprised by that. Either way, we have been improving the squad ever since Ole came and we are still heading in the right direction it's just taking a while. We manage to go on long runs of unbeaten form, the signs are there that we're close to going up another level of form.

Tbf our defence is massively underrated. And when you think about it, you would realize that it's the 'meme-ification' of our defenders that's the reason for that.

Not just in terms of goals against or CS, we've been in top 3 or so for xGA for the past 2 seasons as well.

 

[Bobcat]

I mentioned this a few weeks ago, more as a reminder to myself really. None of the biggest journos had us anywhere close to top either.

Yup. After a pretty underwhelming window, no one was talking about a title challenge, so demanding a title challenge now and suddenly claiming the squad is capable of that is just shifting the goal posts.

Besides Shaw, Bruno and maybe Maguire, are there any players in our squad that are undeniably top 3 in their position in the league?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Game Range​	Wins​	Draw​	Loses​	Clean Sheets​	Goals For​	Goals Against​	Points​	PPG​
First 44 Games​	21​	11​	12​	9​	72​	54​	74​	1.7​
Second 44 Games​	25​	14​	5​	21​	86​	41​	89​	2.0​

Despite us being defensively woeful at times we still have managed 21 clean sheets, honestly surprised by that. Either way, we have been improving the squad ever since Ole came and we are still heading in the right direction it's just taking a while. We manage to go on long runs of unbeaten form, the signs are there that we're close to going up another level of form.

Surely should be the following?

	W	D	L	Clean Sheets	GF	GA	Pts	PPG
Caretaker/Full time	12	4	5	5	36	25	39	1.85
2019/20	18	12	8	13	66	36	66	1.73
2020/21	16	9	4	12	56	32	57	1.96

You'd hope we beat our previous clean sheet total (Henderson has 3 in 6 games, DDG has 9 in 24). Score more goals (likely will be similar) although it will be difficult to not concede more than last season.

As an aside DDG's average clean sheets per game this season is 0.37 which is pretty much the same as our total clean sheets last season where he played every game (0.34 ). Perhaps further proof of Henderson's claim to the No1 spot given the defence is exactly the same and, albeit it's a small sample size, Henderson is on 50%.

 

[lex talionis]

I agree that Ole needs backing from the board if they really want him to succeed. But Ole also has to have a contingency plan if he doesn’t get his primary target. It can’t be that we’re dicking around the entire summer for one player and end up empty handed in identified weak positions without a contingency plan.

There has to be some sort of falling scale of players that would be pursued to fill holes in the squad if we’re serious about challenging for a title next season. We can’t chase £80m players in every position and when they don’t pan out go “ah, we tried, we’ll have to do without a CB/RW/DM/ST and go again next year and then maybe we can challenge in two years”, because that’s how you end up going 30 years without a league title and in a constant rebuilding project.

I definitely agree. The caveat I would add to that is who among our young prospects can do the job that top transfer prospects could?

Prime example is RW. Do we go all in for Sancho or do we believe that Diallo is one for the future? How about DM...de we believe in Garner? How about CB...Tuanzebe? It wouldn't be insane to say yes to all three. Maybe the club is thinking 2 seasons away from challenging for the PL trophy instead of going for it all next season, with the necessary transfer costs that would be required to fulfill such an ambition. I've waited long enough and would rather we go for it next season, as it's probably in the second season of being a legitimate PL contender that we actually win it, so a few serious buys it must be.

 

[croadyman]

Well, there's only really been Liverpool last season, who were riding the crest of a wave while City had a downturn themselves.

I'm not saying it's an impossible task, just that it's very high expectations for an inferior squad, with a less decorated manager to overcome such odds.

My mindset at the end of last season was that I expected us to challenge Liverpool and City this season, because in my mind I was sure Sancho and a couple of others were arriving to put us in a position to do so. When that didn't transpire, I had to adjust my expectations and so far we are roughly meeting them by being the best of the rest.

Same will apply this summer. If we have a transfer window worthy of taking us up another level then I will expect a challenge. If not, I think it's unrealistic to demand we overtake City or Ole is out.

Cannot see us having a transfer window which would take us up a level because of full season financial constraints

 

[Dve]

I definitely agree. The caveat I would add to that is who among our young prospects can do the job that top transfer prospects could?

Prime example is RW. Do we go all in for Sancho or do we believe that Diallo is one for the future? How about DM...de we believe in Garner? How about CB...Tuanzebe? It wouldn't be insane to say yes to all three. Maybe the club is thinking 2 seasons away from challenging for the PL trophy instead of going for it all next season, with the necessary transfer costs that would be required to fulfill such an ambition. I've waited long enough and would rather we go for it next season, as it's probably in the second season of being a legitimate PL contender that we actually win it, so a few serious buys it must be.

DM, CD and RW are all positions where we need to strengthen, but as for now, I actually wouldn´t mind spending the whole budget on Haaland, and then just hope for players like Garner, McTominay, Tuanzebe, Greenwood and Diallo (and maybe Pellestri and even James), to improve enough to fill some of the gaps. Cavani seems set to leave, and having a proper nr. 9 would make a huge difference.

 

[youngrell]

Cannot see us having a transfer window which would take us up a level because of full season financial constraints

Depends how savvy we are, I suppose.

It may also depend on who is leaving, too.

 

[croadyman]

Depends how savvy we are, I suppose.

It may also depend on who is leaving, too.

Oh yeah in order for that to happen would have to sell one of Pogba/Martial/DDG and at least two of Matic/Dalot/Lingard/Mata

 

[bsCallout]

For me it just makes it better when we do well that they don't respect him and think he's useless. Oppo fans don't rate our players either, beyond Bruno (even then 'penalty merchant') if you asked who was our best player they would probably still say De Gea.

I wouldn't judge anything on opposition fans' opinions.

According to my pal, DDG is the worst keeper on the league, Martial isn't good enough to be a striker, Maguire and Lindelof are worse than O'Shea and Brown, but Ole isn't good enough despite us being second.

Our own fans think similar, I don't really get how that can work. Based on what most people seem to believe both our players and manager are over-performing.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yup. After a pretty underwhelming window, no one was talking about a title challenge, so demanding a title challenge now and suddenly claiming the squad is capable of that is just shifting the goal posts.

Besides Shaw, Bruno and maybe Maguire, are there any players in our squad that are undeniably top 3 in their position in the league?

The majority of sensible thinking folk wanted a comfortable top four finish, progress in our playing style and a good cup run. We've pretty much achieved all of that so onwards and upwards.

 

[AshRK]

Again, it's because some blatantly don't rate Ole. Sure look at some some of the fans in here; they make excuses for when we win ffs, rather than giving him credit. I wouldn't call it 'having it both ways' tbh - for me, some people refuse to give him credit or rate him so they'll constantly predict doom and gloom. They are basing it on their negative views of Ole rather than the quality of our squad.

Yes I get that and that's why I said many have already made up their mind that Ole is a crap manager. I am not Ole In or a blind Ole supporter but it is difficult even for guys like me to have a good debate with people like them. And funny enough they never have any good replies but just say you are a blind Ole supporter. I, infact have seen many avid Ole supporters who have acknowledged that Ole needs improvement and hence it is easier to debate with them.

 

[Anustart89]

I definitely agree. The caveat I would add to that is who among our young prospects can do the job that top transfer prospects could?

Prime example is RW. Do we go all in for Sancho or do we believe that Diallo is one for the future? How about DM...de we believe in Garner? How about CB...Tuanzebe? It wouldn't be insane to say yes to all three. Maybe the club is thinking 2 seasons away from challenging for the PL trophy instead of going for it all next season, with the necessary transfer costs that would be required to fulfill such an ambition. I've waited long enough and would rather we go for it next season, as it's probably in the second season of being a legitimate PL contender that we actually win it, so a few serious buys it must be.

Diallo is the only one out of the ones you mentioned who would serve as a substitute for an established signing coming in. If we sign one player per summer for the four key areas Bruno will have retired by the time our rebuild is done, and it’ll just be a perpetual rebuild while we’re pissing away huge sums and never getting done.

I don’t have any hopes for Garner and Tuanzebe being significant improvements on current squad options. Mejbri maybe within a couple of years, but the academy needs to be a complement, not the primary source of squad improvement. Ideally we’d replace the likes of Jones and Lingard with academy players who might make the step up but where squad improvement isn’t hinging on them becoming good enough, more of it being a bonus.

 

[Jonno]

i’d like to think that bailly, matic, tuanzebe, williams and telles are not untested/academy players.

Nope, but they are defensive and would have been seen as negative, defensive subs which he gets slaughtered for.

He clearly made the correct decision as we won comfortably

 

[lex talionis]

Diallo is the only one out of the ones you mentioned who would serve as a substitute for an established signing coming in. If we sign one player per summer for the four key areas Bruno will have retired by the time our rebuild is done, and it’ll just be a perpetual rebuild while we’re pissing away huge sums and never getting done.

I don’t have any hopes for Garner and Tuanzebe being significant improvements on current squad options. Mejbri maybe within a couple of years, but the academy needs to be a complement, not the primary source of squad improvement. Ideally we’d replace the likes of Jones and Lingard with academy players who might make the step up but where squad improvement isn’t hinging on them becoming good enough, more of it being a bonus.

I generally agree. Assuming reasonable constraints, I'd bring in Haaland and let Greenwood and Diallo handle RW duties. I'd let McFred continue to handle DM duties and let our current CBs do their jobs. But for this scheme to work we'd have to keep Pogba he'd have to put in a proper shift every match and do a much better job of staying fit.

Of course we'd all want a top DM for balance, but we're actually not all that bad defensively with the squad we have, but where we fall apart is in attack against weaker opponents who sit and defend on us. It took an own goal to break a nil nil draw with a fairly pedestrian West Ham. We have to do a lot better than that and a CF who converts on his chances is the straightest path forward to overcoming the West Hams of the world.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Ole is doing an OK job, but we should aim higher I think if we can.
A new contract would be stupid. Worse than giving Phil Jones one since there was bigger hope with him being injury free than hope of Ole turning into a world beater.
I still think we can sneak a cup, but to beat Pep over a season not really.

 

[crossy1686]

Well I mean the fact that most oppos are celebrating his impending new contract says it all. He's not respected by oppo fans nor is he respected by the media. If we finish second it'll only be because of x, y and z. He won't get praised.

This says everything you need to know really about the mindset of someone who forms their opinions based on other people's perceptions.

The day we start picking managers based on what opposition fans or the media want, we are finished as a club. We do what's best for our club, no one else know's how to run Manchester United.

Apply some critical thought process instead of trying to appease a bunch of people who hate us and want us to fail.

 

[Cast5]

This says everything you need to know really about the mindset of someone who forms their opinions based on other people's perceptions.

The day we start picking managers based on what opposition fans or the media want, we are finished as a club. We do what's best for our club, no one else know's how to run Manchester United.

Apply some critical thought process instead of trying to appease a bunch of people who hate us and want us to fail.

Lots of oppo fans say they don’t rate Bruno and he’s a pen merchant, I think we should sell him.

 

[Bobcat]

Ole is doing an OK job, but we should aim higher I think if we can.
A new contract would be stupid. Worse than giving Phil Jones one since there was bigger hope with him being injury free than hope of Ole turning into a world beater.
I still think we can sneak a cup, but to beat Pep over a season not really.

The big question as always though is, how is going to replace him?

There are no Pep's og Klopp's available and while Nagelsmann looks like a very talented young manager, is he a safe bet to take on Pep with an inferior squad?

 

[Zen86]

Lots of oppo fans say they don’t rate Bruno and he’s a pen merchant, I think we should sell him.

And Ronaldo, and countless other United players past and present before they kicked on. Other fans will always laugh and lay into our club, it's what happens when you're the biggest club in the country. And we do it to others as well, that's just how football is.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The big question as always though is, how is going to replace him?

There are no Pep's og Klopp's available and while Nagelsmann looks like a very talented young manager, is he a safe bet to take on Pep with an inferior squad?

Yeah there is Noone fully obvious. I like Allegri, but he has been out of job for a while.
It could easily backfire so that is why I think Ole stays to get top 4 with 2-3 signings. The board likes him I guess.
Just he needs to be more aggressive and not accept draws as easily cause to hope City drops lots of points too is not going to work.
Just think a long contract is silly though. We gave Mourinho a longer one even when it did not look like a smart thing to do. Same with Moyes.

 

[Cast5]

And Ronaldo, and countless other United players past and present before they kicked on. Other fans will always laugh and lay into our club, it's what happens when you're the biggest club in the country. And we do it to others as well, that's just how football is.

Exactly, there’s still oppo fans who say Fergie wasn’t a good manager, he was just a big whiskey nosed cheat who paid the refs.

People who take oppo fans opinions seriously don't understand how partisan football fans actually are, Maguire was your average England fans hero until he moved to United, now he’s a BTEC Phil Jones apparently.

Edit:

@Robbie Boy I never saw what you said, if you see this I didn’t mention you mate (I have no posts left so can’t reply).

 

[Robbie Boy]

This says everything you need to know really about the mindset of someone who forms their opinions based on other people's perceptions.

The day we start picking managers based on what opposition fans or the media want, we are finished as a club. We do what's best for our club, no one else know's how to run Manchester United.

Apply some critical thought process instead of trying to appease a bunch of people who hate us and want us to fail.

Think you need to look back to where the convo stemmed from.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Lots of oppo fans say they don’t rate Bruno and he’s a pen merchant, I think we should sell him.

What are you on about? Can you not read where the conversation stemmed from? Fml. Some just look for outrage in anything on here

 

[Robbie Boy]

@Cast5 fair enough mate. The poster you quoted had quoted me and gotten the complete and utter wrong end of the stick in regards to a conversation I was having with another poster!

You need more posts, upgrade to the RedCafe platinum deluxe package

 

[Bobcat]

Yeah there is Noone fully obvious. I like Allegri, but he has been out of job for a while.
It could easily backfire so that is why I think Ole stays to get top 4 with 2-3 signings. The board likes him I guess.
Just he needs to be more aggressive and not accept draws as easily cause to hope City drops lots of points too is not going to work.
Just think a long contract is silly though. We gave Mourinho a longer one even when it did not look like a smart thing to do. Same with Moyes.

Thats just how modern football is. Almost no one sees out their contract. Unless we had a ready made replacment lined up it would be incredibly daft not to offer him a new contract, since then we would most likely end up with a care taker.

Also, if the club is serious about going after Haaland, we need Ole as leverage.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Thats just how modern football is. Almost no one sees out their contract. Unless we had a ready made replacment lined up it would be incredibly daft not to offer him a new contract, since then we would most likely end up with a care taker.

Also, if the club is serious about going after Haaland, we need Ole as leverage.

I think so as well. Ole is the only reason why I'm still hopeful of us getting him.

 

[pocco]

Thats just how modern football is. Almost no one sees out their contract. Unless we had a ready made replacment lined up it would be incredibly daft not to offer him a new contract, since then we would most likely end up with a care taker.

Also, if the club is serious about going after Haaland, we need Ole as leverage.

I don't see why this matters at all. If we had Nagelsmann, just for example, I think Haaland would still be equally as interested in coming here. Still, neither beat Pep or Klopp. Even Tuchel may have made Chelsea an equally attractive opposition.

This is just in the PL. Besides, I'd never recommend signing a player that only wants to come because he's friends with the manager. What happens if he got sacked next season? It's daft to keep a manager for that reason, it shouldn't even be a factor.

 

[Bobcat]

I don't see why this matters at all. If we had Nagelsmann, just for example, I think Haaland would still be equally as interested in coming here. Still, neither beat Pep or Klopp. Even Tuchel may have made Chelsea an equally attractive opposition.

This is just in the PL. Besides, I'd never recommend signing a player that only wants to come because he's friends with the manager. What happens if he got sacked next season? It's daft to keep a manager for that reason, it shouldn't even be a factor.

Of course it matters. Personal relationships can often be a deciding factor in where a player ends up and right now thats our biggest(only?) advantage we have over the other big clubs

 

[pocco]

Of course it matters. Personal relationships can often be a deciding factor in where a player ends up and right now thats our biggest(only?) advantage we have over the other big clubs

I doubt it's even an advantage so I wouldn't even waste time worrying about it. What about all the other players we need? Shall we bring in their past coaches too when we're ready to sign them?