I realise him trying to save his job means a sacrifice on trying to improve our playing style. Like what LVG did after we got spanked by Leicester. We all hated his football too.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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This is a false narrative. Nobody is placing Ole at the same table as Pep.
People are pointing out that Pep would struggle to win anything with this team and the funding he'd get with us.
Saying Pep would struggle as well is not the same as saying Pep and Ole are equal. You know this, obviously, but it's less fun than saying "people are blind fanatics".
Is there any prove of that? Donny said that Ole himself convinced him to join the club:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ball-news/solskjaer-told-van-de-beek-18871580
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But the bolder is what I’m arguing against, after the recent run of must win matches against very strong opposition brinonwkuld have been left out yesterday even if he played no minutes against sociedad.
Ole rotated our strongest team out for the fa cup, va de Beek had his chance, cup qf playing where he wants and he blew it, the players chosen instead of our first eleven showed they couldn’t be trusted as much, which IMO justifies Oles decision not to use them in the must win games lately
I disagree with most of it, I could go back and go through it if it pleases you
If you believe that you will believe anything.
Did you bother to read the initial discussion post before assuming I just decided is more fun "blind fanatics"? my guess is not.
But hey its easier jumping to conclusions without actually reading the whole discussion right?
That sacrifice is just that. A sacrifice. We'd sacrifice our league position to please your tastebuds. Would you be happy sacrificing top 4 for an "improved playing style"?
That would be just as bad for the club as it would be for Ole.
I did indeed. I don't see anyone placing Ole at the same table as Pep anywhere.
And it's silly and daft to call optimists "blind fanatics" when pointing out certain aspects of our club, Ole's abilities, and Pep's management history.
I don't believe Pep would do much better with the squad we have right now. I guess I'm a blind fanatic. You believe he would? I guess you're just a delusional and entitled hater.
It depends on weather that improved playing style is progressive which would eventually get us closer to titles, such as Klopp did with Liverpool or if its just beautiful football for the sake of it like Bielsa's who we all know wont win a thing.
Right now cementing our top 4 position by sacrificing style (which to be clear I dont think we are, we are just incapable of playing better under current management) feels as stagnation. Even if we finish second there's not much optimism that next year we will suddenly click and actually compete for big titles.
Its like Mourinho's kind of football, yeah we got a distant second but nobody would assure us next year we will, nevermind win the title, get second again.
Seeing as you love to hound people over posts they haven't replied to I just found it comical.
Come on now. He didn’t blow it he just doesn’t play often enough. He confidence has decreased as the season has gone on. If he played that game in October he would have delivered a different performance. These players aren’t robots. I no nothing about you but if you have played football you should be able to relate to confidence.
VBD is a very talented and respected football amongst the Dutch camp. He probably believes he is better than Bruno but also knows the manager will not pick him over Bruno no matter what he does. This affects your ability to perform for the team. Jesse Lingard hinted at the samething. Even though I’m sure we both agree Bruno is a far better player I’m sure if Lingard played over the weekend we wouldn’t have got the same West Ham performance he delivered.
That’s not a level thing either because he’s not improved at West Ham he’s just performing to the level he is as a player.
@b82REZ just for you
Oh right, I remember the ‘hounding’ I give by asking one poster why they didn’t reply, what others are there
I have no idea, you've done it to me and I'm sure if I could be arsed I could find plenty more in this thread alone.
So you would indeed sacrifice top 4 this year, if we could potentially be closer to the title next year? Why not have both 2nd this year and still be closer to the title next year? I believe we can do both, and don't really see the similarities to Mourinho at all. But again, I'm just a blind fanatic.
Also, Klopp didn't really sacrifice anything, did he? He's been lauded here for building and progressing since day 1, albeit a bit slow in the beginning. Which is fully comparable to what is happening at Man United right now.
And no, before you say I'm comparing Klopp and Ole's abilities, I'm not. I'm merely pointing out how the circumstances/progress can be viewed as similar for the two.
Tl
You’re agreeing with me ain’t you? Van de Beek is better than he showed on the weekend. Yeah his confidence is low and he may be better with a run of games but that game was there for him, go looking for the ball, be aggressive, take the game and move the ball. He just looked weak and went out with a whimper. Which like unsaid justifies oles decision to not play him in the important games
Look at the reaction to us losing one game and people wonder why Ole tries to play his best team as much as possible. 
Go on then, before making baseless claims go find the hounding posts
Im certain Pep would do better than Ole not only with this squad but with pretty much any squad.
Hypothetically if we were given the choice of choosing between Pep or Ole who do you think the great majority of fans would choose?
What you are arguing indirectly is that not even one of the greatest managers in football history would do much better than Ole, does that sound objective to you? I can understand people debating Pochetino or Rodgers. But no people want to take it as far as Pep and Klopp.
I've seen some posters, and not joking here, even saying that Sir Alex wouldn't have done a better job because the Glazzers or whatever. I guess those people ignore the fact that Sir Alex won everything that there's to win while under the Glazzers.
Those arguments do seem like blind fanatism to me.
How dare you reply to posters and disagree with their points! You errrm hound!
your u
Your username doesn’t stand out to me but I do remember laughing at the cartwheel fella ignoring a post that absolutely rinsed his facts that he conveniently ignored. Ignoring made up ‘brain farts’ is slightly different in my view but maybe not in someone else’s so fair enough
That would require reading through your posts and I'm not in a masochistic mood this afternoon.
I think you know as well as I do you've done it.
Not what I said though was it. If you're going to try and be clever at least know what you're on about.
As I’ve said yes, the cartwheel guy, you, I can’t remember ever replying to you or seeing your name before
and I’d like to see the hounding I have you tbh
Well of course I would want to do both, but when asked if I would take this one or that one usually is not valid to say "I'd take both". Is a wether question where you are asked to sacrifice one thing to get the other.
Regarding the blind fanatic drop the drama, it lowers the discussion level.
I dont actually think any manager sacrifices anything, thats a poor man's argument that paints the manager as a martir sacrificing himself for a higher purpose or whatever.
I actually think all managers, excluding the ones from relegation fight teams, try to develop the best football they can play to get to their goals. As I said in the previous reply I dont think Ole is sacrificing style for results I think he is just incapable of making this team play better.
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Do you imply that Donny lied about Ole convincing him to join the club? Why would he do that?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-“ole-in”-brigade.452433/page-95#post-26683543
here we go, what a hounding I gave you!!
I'm not sure why are you arguing who is better manager here FFS, anyone know Pep is top manager and much better. But the point you are missing is critical and that is any manager even if you are proven, unproven, world class or not, they still need time and if the board doesn't the support the manager and delaying the progress then the manager will need more time. If the only way to solve all these problems are by hiring someone as good as Pep or Klopp then we are fecked because there is no one right now can come anywhere near their level.
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Really got under your skin this didn't it?https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-“ole-in”-brigade.452433/page-95#post-26683543
here we go, what a hounding I gave you!!
At least now you recognise your hypocrisy.
Football might be unpredictable but United over the past 8 years have been nothing but predictable. 6 out of 7 seasons we finished with something between 64 and 70 points, with one season as an outlier where our results significantly exceeded the quality of the performances, much like this season. It's pretty much our level and there's very little to suggest it's about to change for the foreseeable future. Far more likely is that we'll be plodding along as always, buying players who turn out be underwhelming and fighting for top 4 with points totals around 70.
I just find it funny and I’ve got five minutes. I find it funny you remembered that enough to bring it back up, obviously didn’t get under your skin
I just have a very good memory.I just find it funny and I’ve got five minutes. I find it funny you remembered that enough to bring it back up, obviously didn’t get under your skin
Especially as I've since seen you do it to other posters, but conveniently ignore posts when it suits you.
As people have pointed out (a lot) earlier, Pep actually didn't do any better with arguably a much better squad when he first came to the PL. Because the squad wasn't built for his philosophy and style. Neither is our squad. If the question is "Would Pep have done better after two and a half years of building his own squad with the same funds and backing as he had with City?" the answer is yes. Yes, he would have.
Having calmed myself down I can understand Ole to a degree.
Just think he should have made changes before 2-1 to them. He is always too late with subs.
Just think he should have made changes before 2-1 to them. He is always too late with subs.
You’re still making things up without backing it up but ok ok, I’ve had enough now, let’s be friends
Surely the question is whether Pep would have done better with this current United squad if he’d been in charge of them for 2.5 years?
BFFs 4eva
Was the question limited to one season or something? If so my mistake, I understanded it as Pep wouldn't have done a better job than Ole, such as wouldn't have done a better job than him in the last 2 and a half years after spending 300M. Which I think is safe to say yes he would have.
Finally we agree, I think it was misunderstanding thats all.
Alright, fair enough. I personally wouldn't sacrifice top 4, even if it meant being closer to the title next year. If it meant "winning the league", sure. We're closer than we've been in years right now, and I don't see why it can't improve further next year.
As for the drama, just stop with the name calling to begin with. That's when the lowering begins in the first place.
I agree with you on the sacrifice part, that was originally an answer to Mainoldo. I don't think managers sacrifice anything most of the time either, most stay true to their beliefs even if it means losing their job.
In regards to Ole, we have played better football for extended periods several times. He's shown he is very much capable of making this team play better. With better depth and a higher floor, we'd be able to sustain those spells for longer.
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