You know that international break doesn't mean it's a break for players like Bruno, right? They are still gonna play 2-3 matches in that "break"-period.Don't forget resting Bruno before an international break for our fa cup quarterfinal loss. He did well in the league but terrible in all the cups though maybe par for the course in the league cup.
How so? It is possible to be both the least talented and have the most underwhelming CV. No?Hm. Somehow that sounded like a contradiction.
It's a fa cup quarterfinal. There are other times to rotate.You know that international break doesn't mean it's a break for players like Bruno, right? They are still gonna play 2-3 matches in that "break"-period.
Y'all complain he doesn't trust the bench to rotate any of the players, then complain he doesn't play the main players if we lose.
Easy to say with hindsight. But we were 1 point ahead of Leicester in 2nd at that time. Also, the previous 5 games leading up to it were Palace, City, AC Milan, WHU, AC Milan. Now where do you choose to rest? And note all these games were over a 2.5 week frameIt's a fa cup quarterfinal. There are other times to rotate.
Rest him in the 5 games preceding that run. This is the same manager that started Bruno in the second leg when we were 4-0 up. He also rested Shaw for that game, threw in matic, vdb and martial. Go look at the matchday thread and see the comments before the game started.Easy to say with hindsight. But we were 1 point ahead of Leicester in 2nd at that time. Also, the previous 5 games leading up to it were Palace, City, AC Milan, WHU, AC Milan. Now where do you choose to rest? And note all these games were over a 2.5 week frame
I doubt a rest then that long ago would have made any difference. These were all incredibly draining games not just physically but mentally as well.Rest him in the 5 games preceding that run. This is the same manager that started Bruno in the second leg when we were 4-0 up. He also rested Shaw for that game, threw in matic, vdb and martial. Go look at the matchday thread and see the comments before the game started.
Did you watch the game? Did they score a header?Against a team that had one of the lowest percentages across the top 5 leagues for headed goals scored
So, his original plan working out is somehow a bad thing?the vast majority of those wins came about not by making and ringing any subs/ tactical changes
He doesn’t ever have to play a whole second team. That’s the problem. Our whole identity with rotation is either playing a really weak second team with no chemistry or match fitness that still features a few of the same overworked first teamers or just the same 11 over and over. You don’t have to make wholesale changes to rotate certain players out for only 4/5 games a season. It’s been turned into this kind of taboo at this stage when it should just be common sense to rest your best players occasionally and not just all at the same time early in the cups/dead rubbers. It’s later in the season where it’s needed most. Ole got that dead wrong this season and needs to majorly improve that aspect of his management. So what if the players always want to play. It’s his call. Let someone else have a shotI doubt a rest then that long ago would have made any difference. These were all incredibly draining games not just physically but mentally as well.
As far as playing 2nd team is concerned, I think people really need to realize that our 2nd team, that people were hoping for isn't good enough to play for EL games, even if you have a 4-0 lead. If you recall the 2nd leg, RS could have been 2 up inside 20 mins - they had a pen and missed plenty of chances. Play your 2nd team and fall 2 behind and it will become a nervy affair
You sure about that? I believe our subs have scored the most number of goals in the league this season.My concern with Ole is I haven't really seen him resolve and overcome a problem. Our awful form at home wasn't just the result of a lack of pre-season. It was an issue that persisted all season. Our susceptibility at set-pieces. Something that plagued us throughout the season and cost us in the final. Against a team that had one of the lowest percentages across the top 5 leagues for headed goals scored.
He wasn't able to get a handle on either of the above problems.
Our record away from home, and our ability to overturn losses into wins is commendable, but the vast majority of those wins came about not by making and ringing any subs/ tactical changes.
I've yet to see him really get on top of a problem if it's not going well.
Hard a brain fart there. However the point still stands. They did us on a set-piece. The same phase of play that we have struggled on for the entire season. So what's your point exactly?Did you watch the game? Did they score a header?
So, his original plan working out is somehow a bad thing?
How can the manager of a team that has by far the best record in the league in matches where the opposition scores first be considered "completely unable to stem a tide when it's going against us"?Hard a brain fart there. However the point still stands. They did us on a set-piece. The same phase of play that we have struggled on for the entire season. So what's your point exactly?
As for the original plan working, do you deliberately wash over a point to suit your narrative? That wasn't my point and you know it. So let me spell it out for you as you. He seems completely unable to a stem a tide when it's going against us.
When his first 11 haven't been able to get the job done, how many times has he rung the changes and it's had any kind of sizeable impact? That's even if he does it at all, of course.
Our second team consists of an above average gk, two decent CBS, an above average left back And a bunch of players Ole either signed or gave new contracts to (matic, Mata, vdb, James, diallo) . You're saying they're not good enough, and I'm saying either way the blame falls on Ole. The dvb thing being a prime example, the player was not given a fair chance to succeed at all, judging him on 5 minute cameos and one start every few months is ridiculous. Look at James for example, most would say he's not good enough but at least he's been given a fair chance. The result of that is he knows his limits and his role in the team , and that helps the entire squad.I doubt a rest then that long ago would have made any difference. These were all incredibly draining games not just physically but mentally as well.
As far as playing 2nd team is concerned, I think people really need to realize that our 2nd team, that people were hoping for isn't good enough to play for EL games, even if you have a 4-0 lead. If you recall the 2nd leg, RS could have been 2 up inside 20 mins - they had a pen and missed plenty of chances. Play your 2nd team and fall 2 behind and it will become a nervy affair
But he did make 4/5 changes vs Sociedad. Post that, the fixture list meant you can't really rotate as much because of the kind of games we were playing.He doesn’t ever have to play a whole second team. That’s the problem. Our whole identity with rotation is either playing a really weak second team with no chemistry or match fitness that still features a few of the same overworked first teamers or just the same 11 over and over. You don’t have to make wholesale changes to rotate certain players out for only 4/5 games a season. It’s been turned into this kind of taboo at this stage when it should just be common sense to rest your best players occasionally and not all at the same time early in the cups. It’s later in the season where it’s needed most.
Giving a player contract extension does not mean they are expected to just beat any decent side. They are backup for a reason Ole giving them contract extension was more likely due to us having more pressing needs elsewhere rather than them being top class players now.Our second team consists of an above average gk, two decent CBS, an above average left back And a bunch of players Ole either signed or gave new contracts to (matic, Mata, vdb, James, diallo) . You're saying they're not good enough, and I'm saying either way the blame falls on Ole. The dvb thing being a prime example, the player was not given a fair chance to succeed at all, judging him on 5 minute cameos and one start every few months is ridiculous. Look at James for example, most would say he's not good enough but at least he's been given a fair chance. The result of that is he knows his limits and his role in the team , and that helps the entire squad.
What changes did he make? The defenders? That was forced. Everyone can name the managers favourite 11 now without blinking. The only questions are Rashford right or left or Pogba left or in the middle. Is Cavani fit to play. The rest of the team picks itself.But he did make 4/5 changes vs Sociedad. Post that, the fixture list meant you can't really rotate as much because of the kind of games we were playing.
People talk about us overplaying Rashford, but Salah has played more minutes than him this season, despite them having played significantly lesser games than us. As far as Bruno is concerned, we have seen the record when he isn't playing - I dont think that point is even up for debate, and thats the reason why we need him in most games
It's just that the consensus when VDB was signed, was that he'd cover for Bruno in that number ten position, but aside from a couple of cameos I'm not sure that was even tested fully. Lingard seemed to get more opportunities in that role so we were probably better off keeping him around of Ole didn't want to use VDB.But he did make 4/5 changes vs Sociedad. Post that, the fixture list meant you can't really rotate as much because of the kind of games we were playing.
People talk about us overplaying Rashford, but Salah has played more minutes than him this season, despite them having played significantly lesser games than us. As far as Bruno is concerned, we have seen the record when he isn't playing - I dont think that point is even up for debate, and thats the reason why we need him in most games
Maguire didn't play, Neither did Shaw, nor did McT nor Shaw. At HT, we subbed AWB, Bruno and Fred. And last I checked people want the manager to know what his best XI is. Wasn't this the criticism used against Ole last season, when people said, he has no clue of his best XI?What changes did he make? The defenders? That was forced. Everyone can name the managers favourite 11 now without blinking. The only questions are Rashford right or left or Pogba left or in the middle. Is Cavani fit to play. The rest of the team picks itself.
According to tranfermarkt Bruno and Rashford are numbers 3 & 4 in the top European leagues for most matches played. It’s not a coincidence they both looked shattered and out of ideas in so many games. A club our size shouldn’t need to be so over reliant on individuals that they must play no matter their condition or the difficulty of the fixture. I’m sure even Ronaldo and Messi got more rest in their primes. Also what happens if we buy more squad players like VDB or Telles this summer? It all just feels a bit pointless.
What I think is even harder to understand is why Pogba isn't seen as a backup option there. It's not his best position, but he's had good games there in the past.It's just that the consensus when VDB was signed, was that he'd cover for Bruno in that number ten position, but aside from a couple of cameos I'm not sure that was even tested fully. Lingard seemed to get more opportunities in that role so we were probably better off keeping him around of Ole didn't want to use VDB.
In the final? Shaw AWB and Mct started?Maguire didn't play, Neither did Shaw, nor did McT nor Shaw. At HT, we subbed AWB, Bruno and Fred. And last I checked people want the manager to know what his best XI is. Wasn't this the criticism used against Ole last season, when people said, he has no clue of his best XI?
Giving a player a new contract means you have faith in their ability , doesn't matter how you slice it. Those players have to be able to perform if they're part of the first team squad. Giving an aging number 10 a new contract because we need a right back more urgently is conflating two separate decisions.Giving a player contract extension does not mean they are expected to just beat any decent side. They are backup for a reason Ole giving them contract extension was more likely due to us having more pressing needs elsewhere rather than them being top class players now.
Look, I love Mata, Diallo, and all but Mata and Matic have lost their legs, Diallo is too young to be given a 90 min run around, VDB is yet to settle and I can go on. BTW, Mata was on personal leave at this time, I believe VDB was injured and same for Bailly as well(?). The 2 CBs you're talking about - one of them has had a poor season, and the other, if fit, will give either a 2/10 performance or an 8/10 How can you trust such a CB? The side has a lot more depth in terms of quality now, but not many of these players are proper game-changers
If you really believe these players are good enough, then would you say that with a different manager - we'd have won the league this season? What about if we just sack Ole and sign a different manager - we win the league?
I'm referring to the Sociedad game.In the final? Shaw AWB and Mct started?
Yet in our most important game of the season at that point our manager chose to rest him. You can understand why that would be a very criticized decision surely considering the result.But he did make 4/5 changes vs Sociedad. Post that, the fixture list meant you can't really rotate as much because of the kind of games we were playing.
People talk about us overplaying Rashford, but Salah has played more minutes than him this season, despite them having played significantly lesser games than us. As far as Bruno is concerned, we have seen the record when he isn't playing - I dont think that point is even up for debate, and thats the reason why we need him in most games
Giving a player a new contract means you have faith in their ability , doesn't matter how you slice it. Those players have to be able to perform if they're part of the first team squad. Giving an aging number 10 a new contract because we need a right back more urgently is conflating two separate decisions.
I've already said the reason I believe dvb has yet to settle has to fall on the manager. We have a very good second squad , it's probably in the top ten in all of Europe and in terms of wages maybe even higher. With our resources we cannot use the shit bench argument and that blame has to fall at least partially on Ole. He's had 4 transfer windows.
My friend I believe in maximizing our chances to win and to keep winning. I have seen enough of Ole to conclude ( of course I could be wrong) that he is not maximing our squad/talent. Ask yourself honestly if there was a world out there with some hypothetical manager better than Ole and he was available should we consider making the change?
No manager will guarantee anything just like no signing does. But we still want the best don't we?
Because league games > FA Cup games, and you had to give him a rest some time. His performance levels had been dipping for 3 months!Yet in our most important game of the season at that point our manager chose to rest him. You can understand why that would be a very criticized decision surely considering the result.
No no I was taking about the final and now I’m confused. Excuse me. I’ll get back to you once I get the context straight.I'm referring to the Sociedad game.
And are you saying these guys shouldn't have started the final? Considering Fred was unfit, the lineup was exactly what everyone would have preferred
Hahahaha. And people like you think that means that as long as you can imagine something better, that's actually an argument for firing the manager. I see you've got several other twattery classics lined up too, including "he's had 4 transfer windows", " "dvb has yet to settle has to fall on the manager" and "in terms of wages maybe even higher."Giving a player a new contract means you have faith in their ability , doesn't matter how you slice it. Those players have to be able to perform if they're part of the first team squad. Giving an aging number 10 a new contract because we need a right back more urgently is conflating two separate decisions.
I've already said the reason I believe dvb has yet to settle has to fall on the manager. We have a very good second squad , it's probably in the top ten in all of Europe and in terms of wages maybe even higher. With our resources we cannot use the shit bench argument and that blame has to fall at least partially on Ole. He's had 4 transfer windows.
My friend I believe in maximizing our chances to win and to keep winning. I have seen enough of Ole to conclude ( of course I could be wrong) that he is not maximing our squad/talent. Ask yourself honestly if there was a world out there with some hypothetical manager better than Ole and he was available should we consider making the change?
No manager will guarantee anything just like no signing does. But we still want the best don't we?
Mainly, I'd say it's rather too early to write DvdB off as a United player.Who even cares about the DVB «debacle». Bad signings happen. Basically every manager and every club does it (regularly, even) and this isn’t the last time it’ll happen to us either. £45m is not that expensive anyhow. Sell him / send him on loan and move on.
Sure. Hopefully he can become whatever we hoped for or thought he would be. If not, sh*t happens.Mainly, I'd say it's rather too early to write DvdB off as a United player.
So we sign a player, barely even play him, don't even know how to use him, sell him again and we shouldn't even question the manager for why he signed him to start with.Who even cares about the DVB «debacle». Bad signings happen. Basically every manager and every club does it (regularly, even) and this isn’t the last time it’ll happen to us either. £45m is not that expensive anyhow. Sell him / send him on loan and move on.
I'd say see them together. If you're judging a manager on his transfers, take the bad with the good. And getting the "good"s is more important than avoiding the "bad"s. But in any case, if DvdB still hasn't contributed much a year from now, then clearly a wrong judgment was made when he was bought, or something wrong has been done after he arrived. That's fair enough. But that's something different than talking as if it's clearly OGS fault at this point that DvdB hasn't done too much this season. Let's see.So we sign a player, barely even play him, don't even know how to use him, sell him again and we shouldn't even question the manager for why he signed him to start with.
I like this logic. If he signs successful players then it's great business. If he signs a player who failed then who gives a shit? Happens all the time. Complete immunity. We shouldn't question anything he does.
And that's what I do. I give him credit for deals like Bruno, as much as I criticize him for deals like VDB. Meanwhile some here are trying to act as if any good signing is his and every bad wasn't "his player". Several times people criticized a deal like Daniel James here and the response was "blame the board, they don't always sign the manager's player".I'd say see them together. If you're judging a manager on his transfers, take the bad with the good. And getting the "good"s is more important than avoiding the "bad"s. But in any case, if DvdB still hasn't contributed much a year from now, then clearly a wrong judgment was made when he was bought, or something wrong has been done after he arrived. That's fair enough. But that's something different than talking as if it's clearly OGS fault at this point that DvdB hasn't done too much this season. Let's see.
Not at all what I’m saying, but sure. Question him as much as you like. Revoke his immunity. Beat him to a pulp with a DVB shaped stick for all I care.So we sign a player, barely even play him, don't even know how to use him, sell him again and we shouldn't even question the manager for why he signed him to start with.
I like this logic. If he signs successful players then it's great business. If he signs a player who failed then who gives a shit? Happens all the time. Complete immunity. We shouldn't question anything he does.
Maybe when you sign a player, plays a lot, and proves he's shit, this can happen. Meanwhile the fact that the season ended with him barely even playing and no one knowing what even his position on the pitch is, it's something that's fair for people to question and ask why we even signed him.Not at all what I’m saying, but sure. Question him as much as you like. Revoke his immunity. Beat him to a pulp with a DVB shaped stick for all I care.
I’m just saying bad signings happen. Of course it’s on Ole that it didn’t work out as planned, but I don’t really think it’s that big of a deal. Again. It happens. And it will happen on a relatively regular basis no matter who’s in charge.
Yes. It’s fair to question him about that signing. I don’t understand the signing either. At all. But I still don’t think it’s that big of a deal.Maybe when you sign a player, plays a lot, and proves he's shit, this can happen. Meanwhile the fact that the season ended with him barely even playing and no one knowing what even his position on the pitch is, it's something that's fair for people to question and ask why we even signed him.
