Our manager is totally and utterly out of his depth?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Yeah we clearly have a Championship standard squad. Ole is getting the best out of these plucky players
Define doing well? It has been relegation candidates form since March. If you consider our squad on par as Newcastle then yes - he's doing well.
Cardiff would have most likely got relegated with or without Ole in charge though.
He’s doing well haha. Utter madness. Until the majority of the fan base see the truth we are screwed
That said, I have real sympathy towards Ole considering his injuries so far. It was always a thin squad, and pretty much every player he would have banked on being his key men have been struck down already this season. I know ‘injuries are a part of the game’, but so are teams suffering when they have a string of bad ones. Similar happened last season and halted his run of wins.
Yikes.
Newcastle have played Arsenal, Tottenham away, Liverpool away & Leicester away already. We have 3 more points than them so far.
We play them away next week. Let's see where we are after that. We could easily be 15/16th in the next few weeks.
If he has us at the bottom of the table and Liverpool beat us at Old Trafford, that should be it.
The injuries happened because of the way we are training, the way we are running and our pre season. So he can take blame for that as well.
Eerily similar. Almost like the writing was on the wall from the very beginning.
Injuries and very thin squad. He has despite that made our defence look ten times better then last year. We do have problem in the offense. We are creating little but our biggest problem is scoring. We could easly have had more points if we only knew how to put the ball in the net from the chances we got.
We all knew that it would be tough season even before injuries with club taking the other way (from vanGaal/Mourinho) and "star"-less team. What are people expecting from Ole? If people want to critisize someone it should be board.
Good one.
Hello Liverpool fan. Has to be a wum.
Not going into any argument that is not about football. But I like your argument technique that if you don't have anything to say just go at person without any knowledge who that person is.
You're taking the post out of context.
He meant Ole is doing well considering the circumstances. That being a lack of quality in the midfield and attacking areas - compared to the top 6 sides at least - and an ever-increasing injury list, the majority of which are key players.
Maybe because we have signed a 50 million pound RB and a 80 million pound CB. Nothing to do with his coaching.
exactly. Scary to think where we are currently considering who we have played. These next 3 games could be the end of him. Lose all 3 and i just fail to see how you keep him with us having a very real possibility of being in the relegation zone. I can't even imagine the embarrassment of being officially in the relegation slot this far into the season.
It's normal to make our defence better considering we splashed 130m pounds on it.
Still we have about 1 game from 20 or something that we ended up with a clean sheet so 10 times better is stretching it.
Who didn't the board give him this summer that he wanted? It's easy to always say it's the players fault and it's the board's fault but 2 points off relegation after 6-7 games isn't looking good for any manager, let alone United's one.
EDIT: Also injuries aren't really a good excuse. Look at Chelsea's lineup when they played against us and how many injuries they had so far. Despite losing to us they still have 11 points. Every team has dealt with injuries - City have 1 fit CB, etc..
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Right... Compared to your argument technique of diverting the original question and inserting your own pro-Ole questions into the debate?
All people asked was that you answer the question before asking your own. Ridiculous notion i know.
Bruce. Been saying he’s a rubbish manager since he spent an, at the time, huge £40m and still got relegated and then years later couldn’t get Villa promoted despite spending EPL money on transfers and wages.
Managers like Bruce are the reason young British managers don’t get top jobs, not foreign managers. Managing Newcastle is a huge job and so many young British managers have earned the right to be given that chance, but it went to Bruce.
Ole's bad no doubt.
But surely he's been screwed with a squad desperately short on quality in defence, midfield & attack to achieve anything decent.
I really wonder if even an experienced tactician as say Ancelotti or Allegri could work miracles with these guys. Or if one of the flavour of the month attacking coaches like ten Haag or Rose can get a tune out of this sorry bunch.
But surely he's been screwed with a squad desperately short on quality in defence, midfield & attack to achieve anything decent.
I really wonder if even an experienced tactician as say Ancelotti or Allegri could work miracles with these guys. Or if one of the flavour of the month attacking coaches like ten Haag or Rose can get a tune out of this sorry bunch.
That’s quite a reach, and no doubt a baseless one too.
Have they won the champions league with the club that they managed and can they keep fooling people that it’s still 99Do they know their clubs?
How is it baseless? Do you think our players dropping like flies with muscle injuries after Ole came in is a coincidence? Do you think there are no repercussions to higher intensity sprints and running?
The snag was Chelsea had been chasing so much to get the ball back they lacked the composure to shoot straight. And shot when they shouldn't, eventually getting a deflection. Furthermore, BHA had only had three defenders instead of their normal six, (midfield was packed first half) so it was easy for an accurate pass to breach the defence if Chelsea were very quick.
In the end it was BHA careless complacency that cost them the game. Jorginho sprayed the ball around the ball like Pogba and had a field day.
Question: if you want to watch high pressing style like City and Liverpool the strikers have got to be good.
It's more like normal intensity, since under Jose we were not doing those things at all.
It’s baseless because muscular injuries are a big part of the sport and have been since forever. Every player we have out with muscle injuries have been out with muscular injuries on occasion long before Ole came in.
Then there’s the implied ‘blame’ of the manager getting his players to do more running, which is bizarre in itself.
I thought his pre-season was supposed to protect the squad from injuries in adapting to his style? He said they would be fit and raring to go at the start of the season. How come then even before the injuries, the team was deep, reactive and stagnant?
The defence is better because in AWB & Maguire, we have 2 of the best defenders in the league added to it. It's normal for the level to increase. Also, the defence is protected because we are very deep and don't collectively press high if at all. We sit off the opposition a lot.
About missing chances that's lame. Everyone can make those excuses. It's not like we're creating many clear cut chances per match anyway.
I criticise Ole because he's been here 9 months now and what has improved since he came in? We still are a Jose side by structure. Nothing new has been added at all. It's just deteriorating as time goes on.
The existing players are going backwards, coaching is non-existant, in-game management is abysmal. Everything that requires competence on the training ground or in matches he is completely out of his depth at.
Add in his results in the league since he became permanent manager; Played 14; Won 4, Drawn 4, Lost 6 with -5 GD. Two wins in last 11 Premier League matches. Club record 7 Premier League matches without an away win. No clean sheet away from home in any competition since his permanent appointment. Just 17 goals scored in last 20 matches. Scored more than 1 goal just once in last 14 matches.
That is why.
Go on, i would love to see you try and defend Ole against those facts.
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It's always easier to take things out of context to start a argument and that is good for own agenda. Good to see that there are those who can understand what I mean.
The only facts are those in bold. And those are taken out of bigger picture. The other is just your opinion. If you think that 9 months is enough for a manager to turn around "sinking" ship you are not going to like next 2-3 years. (With or without Ole). Just as example, Klopp. Not that I am saying that Ole is Klopp. Just that even a toppclass manager needed 4-5 years to get out full potential of the team. And we are talking about a team that was still better then our current is.
Well, with 54 goals last year it is big improvement. Maybe not 10 times but improvement. Sure, it helped buying two good defenders. But that don't take the fact that we are better defensivly.
Of course it is not optimal. But people must look at everything around. With Rashford, Marital and Pogba healthy we would be higher up. Don't you think that? Take out (Salah/Mane/Firminho), (Stelring/Aguero/Silva), (Kane, Son, Eriksen) and I believe they would also struggle. I'm not saying that without injuries we would be leading Premier League but we would definitly have more points.
If you look at preseason I believe that you could see that he wanted at least one midfielder and forward. If I remember well he talked that any leaving player would be replaced when he was asked about Sanchez/Lukaku. If he wanted and told our board and they denied/didn't managed to to that, then it is not Oles fault.
I think it's more than likely personally. With how competitive the Premier League is now, its absurd to think we can get by on nostalgia and sentimentality without coaching properly. I truly think we have some of the worst (if not the worst) coaches and manager setup in the league.
Looking at it, Ole is Norwegian level, Phelan was a ''Consultant Sporting Director'' in Australia and McKenna, Carrick are inexperienced at best. What qualifications do they have for us to expect them to be capable of challenging at the top of the league?
Steve Bruce is managing Newcastle at the bottom of the league. He's a former legend. Why isn't he here instead? He's 10x the coach of Ole. He has had many seasons of premier league experience (392 games as a Premier League manager means only 5 managers have managed more pl games than him) and promoted teams 4 times to the premier league (Joint record for most promotions). Bruce also has had two top-10 Premier League finishes, with Birmingham in 2003-04 and Sunderland in 2010-11.
In comparison, Ole relegated Cardiff then was sacked 17th in the Championship...
If we're near the relegation zone, you would think, even the most ardent of pro-Ole supporters would have to wake up and come to their senses eventually.
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My God with everything we have seen and people still cannot see how flawed Ole's approach is. The injuries last season were NOT a coincidence. Shaw and Martial picking up muscle injuries in the same game and then Rashford doing his groin after consecutive games happened for a reason.
There was this fantasy amongst the fan base that we could just run and run but you have to manage it properly. We haven't, and even with a thin squad we continued to push this in pre season. It's not baseless at all. It's not sustainable and Ole is naive.
I don't care what it is. The approach was reckless and you have to manage it properly. When players started dropping in and around the Liverpool and PSG games do you really think it was just a coincidence? In order to keep up high intensity sprints you have to keep the ball better when you do recover possession. We simply cannot do it.
You're obviously a bit lost when it comes to what makes a top side a top side - because work rate is an important - hugely so even - part of that. As a manager you have to get the best from your players - make them push themselves to their limits and sometimes beyond. That's why you have depth of squad - because injuries and fatigue is to be expected when your squad plays at maximum capacity. Our problem isn't related to injuries nor fatigue - it's not the fact that our manager demands our players to put a proper shift in which harms us - our problem is lack of depth and the manager not having any real quality to fall back on once attrition sets in. And that's not down to Ole - the fact that we managed to strengthen our defense but neglected to do so with our midfield and attack. He identified this problem and said out straight what he needed - problem is he only got half of what he asked for.
I know teams need work rate. I also know when I see naive tactics and approach. This fan base lives off fantasy so I am not surprised they don’t see anything wrong with how Ole tried to implement higher intensity.
You'd rather he'd tell the team to half-arse it because avoiding injuries is more important than actually performing - thinking this would improve our results? They half-arsed it for half a season before he stepped in - and we haven't looked worse since the 1980s. Or do you think we had the quality to "play it smart" when he came in - that our passing and movement - our incredible assembly of individual artists - was good enough for us to achieve results without our players upping their efforts?
If so - then someone's living a fantasy alright - and that's you. Because we're not Barcelona we can't rely on magic to get us by these days - we still need sweat and blood I'm afraid.
If so - then someone's living a fantasy alright - and that's you. Because we're not Barcelona we can't rely on magic to get us by these days - we still need sweat and blood I'm afraid.
When did I say they should half arse it? Explain to me what we are doing right now because I don't think the players even know themselves.
Or we could just be unfortunate with injuries. It’s not a new part of football. Solskjær has played the game himself, I’m sure he knows a few things about conditioning.
Shaw has gotten muscle injuries long before Ole came here. As has Martial.
If that's what you really think, ok.
I'm sure he doesn't. These comments are so stupid... Roy Keane once said David Healy would guarantee goals in the Premiership for Sunderland because if you're a goal scorer you will score goals in any league.
You were criticizing him for pushing our players too hard weren't you? Blaming inuries on our shortcomings? Well the alternative to playing at high-intensity is to play smart rather than hard - holding back / half-arsing it physically then relying on skills and wits to compensate for effort. Something the best teams can do and something that's preferable I agree - but I stand by my sentiment that if you think we have the quality needed to be successful with that approach - then you're the one living a fantasy. And even if we did we'd still have to put in that extra effort when facing teams of equal quality - so even then the capacity for sustaining a high work rate is important.
Also I'll be lazy and just quote myself here - here's my impression of where we're at per now and why all of you guys so eager to slag off this rebuild should ease down and gain some perspective:
In what games did our dominance warrant 3 points? But i can understand why you think that.. seen as you assume the only thing wrong with our squad was that our 'professional players' were some how less fit than anyone else in the league.
I mean Lingard looks like he could run a marathon.
It is not a fecking stupid comment to suggest that someone who played for 20 years and retired recently knows what type of exertion would increase chance of injury. He was a professional athlete, who suffered injuries and trained daily. Couldn’t care less what Keane said about David Healy, it’s in no way comparable.I'm sure he doesn't. These comments are so stupid... Roy Keane once said David Healy would guarantee goals in the Premiership for Sunderland because if you're a goal scorer you will score goals in any league.
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