Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[JustAGuest]

10 games is a decent sample, it takes away New manager bounce but it includes 10 games that Mourinho had lost the dressing room for feck sake.

The stats are absolutely damning.

Absolutely damning? You are convincingly choosing to stick your head in the sand and ignore the above post. I think it's clear you have an agenda here, and it seems there is no point in replying any more as you are just going to ignore what you don't like to hear.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Absolutely damning? You are convincingly choosing to stick your head in the sand .

The irony...

 

[JustAGuest]

The irony...

How so? You are the one deliberately ignoring the other side of the argument. I don't think there is any irony here at all. Anyway, keep this thread on topic.

 

[Hide_&_Seek]

Its too early to judge him, Ole with squad that simply not good enough & built by somebody else, IMO, he elevate our point archieve to best that we can get, for me current situation was coused by squad quality & depth, even with overhaul next summer i think not gonna lift our potition much, top 4 at the best

Not being pessimist just need too face it, this club is complete different condition than when still in sir alex's hand, squad player, accademy, coaching staff, even management level is whole different story

We are big club, and still one of biggest ever, but right now pattient is what we need the most, i saw it feom his fist match, he has philosophy, spirit and love for this club, just need better asset

3 year is ideal to back at the champion race, atleast give him time as much as mou have

 

[breakout67]

Clear cognitive dissonance, some are ignoring the very reasonable point that is being made by @Rhyme Animal.

Losing 7 in 9 while being outplayed in 8 of those games, teams including Everton, Wolves twice, West Ham and Watford. This is relegation form.

Can you blame a fan for being worried about us not scoring a goal from open play for over 8 hours? This is objectively one of our worst periods of form since the 1960s. This is undeniable.

Don't think that I want Ole sacked, I back Ole to improve us next season. But, that does not mean I will ignore legitimate points brought up by those that don't agree with me.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

How so? You are the one deliberately ignoring the other side of the argument. I don't think there is any irony here at all. Anyway, keep this thread on topic.

I'm not interested in 'the argument' mate, at all.

I'm interested in the actual facts of results and I've written a long post detailing Mourinho's final 10 games as a Utd manager, after he'd lost the fecking dressing room, vs Oles' last 10 games.

I've given you the results, the opponents, goals for and against, and you're not interested because it doesn't suit your agenda, and it shows that right now we're worse than we had a toxic, dressing room lost manager.

If you cared about the club, rather than appearing right or wrong yourself, you'd clearly see how ridiculous the situation is.

So, to indulge you further, lets look at Mourinho's last 15 games, vs Ole's last 15 games, hopefully that's a big enough sample size for you...

Mourinho's final 15 Utd games -

W6
D5
L4

Goals for 23. Goals against 21.

GD plus 2

Solskjaer's last 15 Utd games -

W6
D1
L8

Goals for 17. Goals conceded 22

GD minus 5

Again, Mourinho needed to go - and he had lost the dressing room. But his last 15 results, goals for and against is better than Ole's. And this was a manager out on his feet.

And again, the point isn't about Mourinho, the point is about Solskjaer.

If you're still puzzled, let me spell it out - neither are good enough.

 

[bleedred]

Clear cognitive dissonance, some are ignoring the very reasonable point that is being made by @Rhyme Animal.

Losing 7 in 9 while being outplayed in 8 of those games, teams including Everton, Wolves twice, West Ham and Watford. This is relegation form.

Can you blame a fan for being worried about us not scoring a goal from open play for over 8 hours? This is objectively one of our worst periods of form since the 1960s. This is undeniable.

Don't think that I want Ole sacked, I back Ole to improve us next season. But, that does not mean I will ignore legitimate points brought up by those that don't agree with me.

Everyone agrees about the 7 losses in 9 is a terrible rot.

But what he does is compares just this bad patch against Jose last few games and argues we were far worse off now, discredit everything previously as new manager bounce. That is not an argument, that is a logical fallacy.

 

[bleedred]

I'm not interested in 'the argument' mate, at all.

I'm interested in the actual facts of results and I've written a long post detailing Mourinho's final 10 games as a Utd manager, after he'd lost the fecking dressing room, vs Oles' last 10 games.

I've given you the results, the opponents, goals for and against, and you're not interested because it doesn't suit your agenda, and it shows that right now we're worse than we had a toxic, dressing room lost manager.

If you cared about the club, rather than appearing right or wrong yourself, you'd clearly see how ridiculous the situation is.

So, to indulge you further, lets look at Mourinho's last 15 games, vs Ole's last 15 games, hopefully that's a big enough sample size for you...

Mourinho's final 15 Utd games -

W6
D5
L4

Goals for 23. Goals against 21.

GD plus 2

Solskjaer's last 15 Utd games -

W6
D1
L8

Goals for 17. Goals conceded 22

GD minus 5

Again, Mourinho needed to go - and he had lost the dressing room. But his last 15 results, goals for and against is better than Ole's. And this was a manager out on his feet.

And again, the point isn't about Mourinho, the point is about Solskjaer.

If you're still puzzled, let me spell it out - neither are good enough.

Why don't you address the quality of opposition we played as well in that comparison?. The games we have lost to would have been difficult to handle for any manager coming in in December.

Everton, Wolves Maybe. But the rest of the games we lost were against Arsenal,City, Barcelona.

Hypothetically in that run of games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?

 

[breakout67]

Everyone agrees about the 7 losses in 9 is a terrible rot.

But what he does is compares just this bad patch against Jose last few games and argues we were far worse off now, discredit everything previously as new manager bounce. That is not an argument, that is a logical fallacy.

He is saying we are in a worse rut than we were earlier in the season, which is undeniable fact. And the new manager bounce idea is not something I agree with but falls in line quite neatly with the timeline.

There is a clear change in performance before and after Ole became permanent manager. We got played off the park against Watford and West Ham and were lucky to win. The Everton game was farcical. If someone suggested that this change in status for Ole caused something to change then I can't say that is unreasonable. He is no longer the interim that is doing a job, but now the guy here for real. Some players may think about their future under Ole, some may think that they prefer to play under a different manager, some may not even fancy Ole as a good manager and want to jump ship before they think it gets worse. These are all sensible possibilities that I don't agree with, but can be true.

 

[bleedred]

He is saying we are in a worse rut than we were earlier in the season, which is undeniable fact.

Fergie didn't get us to CL QF in 2013, But Moyes did in 2014. That's an undeniable fact as well. That was the sort of comparison that was being made.

You have to look at the run of games we had currently to our rut in the first half of the season.

Quoting from my previous post,

Hypothetically in the last 10 games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?

And the new manager bounce idea is not something I agree with but falls in line quite neatly with the timeline.

When exactly does this new manager bounce stop then, just as soon as we go on a terrible run?. I disagree that we won earlier in the season because of the bounce, because it went on for like 18 games, and some quality opposition as well.

There is a clear change in performance before and after Ole became permanent manager. We got played off the park against Watford and West Ham and were lucky to win. The Everton game was farcical. If someone suggested that this change in status for Ole caused something to change then I can't say that is unreasonable. He is no longer the interim that is doing a job, but now the guy here for real. Some players may think about their future under Ole, some may think that they prefer to play under a different manager, some may not even fancy Ole as a good manager and want to jump ship before they think it gets worse. These are all sensible possibilities that I don't agree with, but can be true.

Again, these are just hypotheticals and we don't know what exactly is going on. But you cannot ignore the previous results as just luck/bounce and then blame the rut on the manager.

To me, he did well initially and then we have failed because of multitude of reasons, including tougher opposition and his limitations. I would wait till next year this time to make an opinion rather than jump to a conclusion that he is clueless based on this current scenario.

 

[breakout67]

...

Ole isn't Fergie ffs, who won 13 titles for us, won the league in 12/13 and missed the league by goal difference the year before. Ole's got about half a season of good performances and 1/4 of a seasons of poor performacnes. 1/3rd of his time as manager has seen us in relegation form while 2/3rds in title challenging form. It's not surprising that some are doubting him based on this huge swing in momentum.

Many people already saw the cracks well before our results started turning. There's a case to say that our new manager bounce lasted for a short time and our performances slowly deteriorated and this poor form was coming. Some have hypothesized that the Spurs game was the turning point, we had a poor performance against Burnley shortly after and did a job on Leicester who deserved more from the game.

I dont think he is clueless, I'll wait to make that judgement until a good portion of next season is done. He deserves a pre-season and summer window in my opinion.

 

[bleedred]

Ole isn't Fergie ffs, who won 13 titles for us, won the league in 12/13 and missed the league by goal difference the year before. Ole's got about half a season of good performances and 1/4 of a seasons of poor performacnes. 1/3rd of his time as manager has seen us in relegation form while 2/3rds in title challenging form. It's not surprising that some are doubting him based on this huge swing in momentum.

Many people already saw the cracks well before our results started turning. There's a case to say that our new manager bounce lasted for a short time and our performances slowly deteriorated and this poor form was coming. Some have hypothesized that the Spurs game was the turning point, we had a poor performance against Burnley shortly after and did a job on Leicester who deserved more from the game.

I dont think he is clueless, I'll wait to make that judgement until a good portion of next season is done. He deserves a pre-season and summer window in my opinion.

You didnt answer the question, though,

Hypothetically in the last 10 games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?

 

[breakout67]

You didnt answer the question, though,

Hypothetically in the last 10 games, for any manager to come in December, with this squad, how different do you think it would in terms of the results?

You didn't ask me the question so I didn't answer it . I will try my best to answer it now. Draw in both Wolves games and a win against Everton, my expectations aren't so high.

This is based on us being much better away from home this season, and also the results earlier in the season where we drew with Wolves and beat Everton. There is also the point of performances, it is ok to lose or draw games if the performance is good, but the way we lost to Wolves in the FA cup and Everton were quite bad.

 

[crossy1686]

Ince is at it again, I've never known a man this bitter and deluded:

PAUL INCE: SOLSKJAER ISN’T CAPABLE OF DOING THE MAN UTD JOB AND PLAYERS WON’T WANT TO PLAY FOR HIM

There’s no character, leadership or desire in this Manchester United side and that comes down to the manager...

There are people suggesting Man United were ‘good’ in the first half against Manchester City. I didn’t see it. At no stage during that game did they look capable of winning.

After what happened at Everton, people expected a response from United, but it didn’t come.

They had one shot on target in the whole game. We can try to come up with a defence for United’s performance but there simply isn’t one. I don’t see it.

You hear all this talk from the players after the results about how they need to improve and they’ll be up for the next game and it means absolutely nothing. It annoys me when I hear players – Paul Pogba is one – and the manager saying: “we worked really hard and ran around”. Oh, come on! I don’t buy it.

We constantly hear about ‘passion’ and, yeah, fans love that but they also want to see their team playing well and actually creating chances on the pitch. The United fans are being let down. They were expecting a good derby match at Old Trafford, a response to the Everton result. Instead, they got another Jose Mourinho performance – the type of performance that he was getting slaughtered for.

A performance like that isn’t worthy of Manchester United. I’m not sure why Ole or the players are trying to kid us that it was. We’re watching Romelu Lukaku crossing in balls to Marcus Rashford – what are they doing? You look at the bench, and you see Ole and Michael Carrick with that wealth of experience and at no point are they on the touchline getting the players going or trying to motivate them.

Ole needs to get over Sir Alex Ferguson – he’s the Man Utd manager now. We’ve tried this nice approach, the stuff about Ole giving the tea lady chocolates and trying to do what Sir Alex Ferguson has done.

That’s in the past now, we need to move forward from that. All of this ‘Ole legend’ stuff – yeah, he scored the winner in the 1999 Champions League final, we get that. But he’s not a legend – he’s the manager of Manchester United.

Regurgitating how he’s going to do it ‘the Fergie Way’ is pointless. It’s doing my head in and I know others feel the same. Ferguson isn’t the gaffer anymore – simple. No doubt he would help if Ole was in trouble, but I’m sick and tired of it, he’s the manager, he has to forget about the past and realise Ferguson isn’t the manager anymore, he is.

I’m looking at the club and the future really worries me. They’re a long, long way from many teams. Why did those players perform so well when Ole came in and now they’re not? There’s no character, no leadership, no desire, but the manager has to motivate the players too.

These are the same players that were playing brilliantly a few weeks ago.

I called it before he was made manager and got stick for it, but what I said was right. I want him to be successful, but I don’t think he’s capable of doing the job. It’s a huge rebuilding job. Will the players that are needed to carry it out want to come to Man United to play under him? I’m not sure. It’s different to Guardiola and Klopp trying to attract players.

The fact is, they should’ve waited until the end of the season before they gave him the permanent job. There was no rush to appoint him, but everyone got caught up in the euphoria and was thinking with their hearts rather than their heads.

If you went to the board now and asked whether they should’ve given him the job – I think we know what they would say.

Everyone jumped on the Ole bandwagon and now we’re seeing the repercussions. Zinedine Zidane was available at the time and Mauricio Pochettino has always been the right man to take United forward in my eyes. Whether I’m wrong or right, I’m entitled to my opinion.

Man United have lost their identity and everything at the club seems to be in a mess. Yes, they might be profitable because that’s what Ed Woodward cares about, but the football side is a shambles.

Ole needs help, which may come in the form of a director of football, but it’s hardly a surprise the team is in the state it is. The club has given Ashley Young, Phil Jones, and Anthony Martial new contracts.

It’s not easy to get rid of them now and you’re lumbered with them based on the fact they played well for a few weeks. Look at Martial right now, why would you give him a big contract? There’s a big rebuilding job needed, and the club needs looking at from top to bottom.

 

[fallengt]

Ince has some fair points but he's still a tit

 

[Womp]

I don't see much wrong with what he said tbh. It's going to ruffle some feathers though, as Ole can do no wrong, because he's a legend and all that.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Ince is at it again, I've never known a man this bitter and deluded:

I agree with most of that

 

[Gator Nate]

So, to indulge you further, lets look at Mourinho's last 15 games, vs Ole's last 15 games, hopefully that's a big enough sample size for you...

Mourinho's final 15 Utd games -

W6
D5
L4

Goals for 23. Goals against 21.

GD plus 2

Solskjaer's last 15 Utd games -

W6
D1
L8

Goals for 17. Goals conceded 22

I dare say the quality of Ole's FA Cup and CL opponents was a bit stiffer than that of Mou's.

 

[RedfromIreland]

What is the point of all this crap?

 

[Withnail]

What is the point of all this crap?

Good man!

 

[He'sRaldo]

The whole basis of hiring Solskjaer was that the fans won't turn on him as he rebuilds, and if he fails they direct their ire to the board. However, given the posts I've read in this forum, I think it was pointless to hire him as he'll receive the same treatment as any other manager, probably even worse if our title drought continues. He probably won't be given much time or patience. Shouldn't have taken the job really.

For me personally if he were to help us clear out the deadwood, get some good players, inject some hard work and modernity into our play and give us a good solid foundation to build off of, all the while qualifying for the champions league, then his tenure would have been a successful one.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't have a problem with honest posters who suspect that Ole is out of his depth. That's a perfectly valid stance as far as I'm concerned. But there are a number of posters on here (more than I would've thought - it actually baffles me, though it probably shouldn't) who just flat out refuse to afford him the bare minimum normally given any new manager (nevermind one who has taken over a dysfunctional team mid-season).

Context is an alien concept, apparently. Or at least something to be ignored at will in order to wail hysterically or push a poorly hidden preference for something that won't fecking happen. Yes, that would be a reference to fecking Poch - sod off with this already, won't you. Fecking infuriating.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He probably won't be given much time or patience.

He won't. Not from an extremely vocal set on here, at least.

We're headed for another season of "brigade" style keyboard wars at the Caf. Only difference will be that the "out" lot will - mostly - have the courtesy of adding a "I really love Ole, but..." to their posts.

All I can say is...God, I hope he proves us wrong.

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah, and they'd definitely want to play for you wouldn't they Incey lad?

 

[Samid]

Can't catch a break these days. Whenever we start well we get shafted by our seniors gifting goals to the opposition.

 

[Cmz']

Picks De Gea, De Gea makes a mistake, rinse and repeat. Worrying Ole's not learning from this, Romero has to come in next game

 

[AJ10]

Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.


I wonder why.

Edit - directed towards poch lovers who are united fans.

 

[Minimalist]

Ole is not the first manager to stick with his keeper during a bad spell, especially when they are regarded as one of the best on the planet.

It's a difficult situation and both decisions (keeping him in or dropping him) can cause trouble.

 

[JB08]

Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.


I wonder why.

Because nobody gives a shit about Spurs or Lloris, presumably.

 

[Acole9]

He needs to start being ruthless with players. No more Mr nice guy.

 

[Bojan11]

Ole needs to get rid of DDGs mate.

 

[Roboc7]

I don’t think should blame Ole for not dropping De Gea, probably hoped backing him would boost his confidence but it hasn’t worked. Next game Romero should play though as it’s time to give De Gea a break.

 

[Yagami]

I don’t think should blame Ole for not dropping De Gea, probably hoped backing him would boost his confidence but it hasn’t worked. Next game Romero should play though as it’s time to give De Gea a break.

I think Romero's needed this half, tbh

 

[bosnian_red]

You cant blame him too much. Its de Gea. You dont drop him because of a poor run of form because form comes and goes and he can easily snap out of it. Unfortunately he's not out of it yet and its cost us today, but it is what it is. You dont pick a lesser player just because the other has lost form for the first time in ages.

 

[R'hllor]

Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.


I wonder why.

Wtf, why would a UNited fan blame Spurs manager for mistake, the hell.

 

[R'hllor]

You cant blame him too much. Its de Gea. You dont drop him because of a poor run of form because form comes and goes and he can easily snap out of it. Unfortunately he's not out of it yet and its cost us today, but it is what it is. You dont pick a lesser player just because the other has lost form for the first time in ages.

Dont think its that.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Funny how there are people blaming ole for picking ddg but they never blame poch for picking Lloris who makes more howlers than ddg.


I wonder why.

The feck?

I think Romero's needed this half, tbh

Same - if DDG is kept in I think Chelsea will try to exploit him with long-range efforts.

 

[AJ10]

Wtf, why would a UNited fan blame Spurs manager for mistake, the hell.

Post was directed towards poch lovers who are united fans.

 

[bosnian_red]

Dont think its that.

It could be the contract, but we cant say for sure. Whatever it is, dropping him after a bad month is a sure fire way to make his mind up on wanting to leave IMO.

 

[Amadaeus]

Why couldn’t he motivate the players to play like this versus Everton or other mid table team. We need consistency and I am skeptical that Ole can give us this level of consistency throughout a season. Other than, that decent selection and no complaints about his game plan.