Oliver holt : Woodward, Glazers and the crippling Lack of Vision that is hobbling united

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
Do people realise those sponsorship affiliates (noodle partner, foam partner etc) help the club increase its revenue streams annually, which is a must if we are to stay financially competitive with oil clubs.

We are commercial giants and doing well on the business side is also tied to doing well on the football side. To see our efforts on one aspect and conclude we don't care about the other is wrong
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,581
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Do people realise those sponsorship affiliates (noodle partner, foam partner etc) help the club increase its revenue streams annually, which is a must if we are to stay financially competitive with oil clubs.

We are commercial giants and doing well on the business side is also tied to doing well on the football side. To see our efforts on one aspect and conclude we don't care about the other is wrong
People laugh when we sign up more deals with partners. But the reality is that they are needed to stay competitive. We don’t have oil money so don’t have deep pockets with no comeback
 

Morpheus 7

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
3,710
Location
Ireland
Year's upon year's of under investment when fergie was in charge is clear to be seen. Sir Alex was able to squeeze everything out of hours players, sometimes with very average ones. It was the sheer momentum that meant the club were up there every season. Then the unplanned departure, ageing squad like Rooney, Rio, Vidic, Evra ect came back to bight. Moyes was a disaster and Van Gaal sucked the life out of the club combined with horrific purchases. You could argue that Jose is still trying to clear much of the deadwood out. Too many average players and duds. We would have needed a director of football at the start to make sure the signings and vision was right. Mourihno is slowly getting it right, he's bringing in better players overall. He's got rid of as many as he could stop far, with more to flush out hopefully soon.

The recent flat performances in my option have came from the city game. It's no excuse and not good enough but the players have lost total momentum. The game killed our hopes in the league. Injuries in different areas have shown weak squad depth. I mean proper players to come in. The problems are glaring with width. We were relying on wing backs like Young and Valencia. Top professionals but are ageing and isn't there proper position. Playing Mata on one side then rashford/martial on the other side ain't going to solve it either. We need fast natural winger's who can run to the line and cross. We also need a winger that can hit a corner, barely beat the first man. We look a bang average side in cm creativly when Pogba isn't there or at it. Too many for what we've reason aren't there or at it. Carrick, Fellaini and Herrera either don't to be here or at the end of there career in Carrick's case. There is a spine of good players when everyone is fit and at it but not near enough. We have been relying on a on form Lingard top save us in games. Great squad player but not a starter. When Scott gets a run in the midfield you know our squad is stretched.

We will see now if the Glazers are happy to get fourth or want to get back to the top. People chatting rubbish of what they invested too, it's not 1996 when 300m gets you and entire squad of quality. When Southampton players are going for £75m that shows where the market is. The market might be crazy but the money premier league clubs are getting is also mental. Season tickets combined with Adidas, Chevrolet other commercial deals and TV money mean United don't need to scrimp. The under investment over the years at critical times are there to be seen. Jose is demanding more because he knows we need it. A team that finished 6th and buy three players are unlikely to be cruising the league the following season. Nah the deficiencies in the squad are there to be seen. The sooner Blind, Darmian, Shaw, Fellaini and even Herrera if he wants out, go the better long term. I would rather start getting players out and in this window rather than a huge overhaul in the summer. As sad as it we should be planning for next season. Mourihno needs more money and a new contract and address situations head on. People can bang on all they want about Jose but Manchester United is a huge job, don't think there are many out there at the moment able for it. It's not the time for risk with management, it's about getting stability and making progress. As disappointing as the Christmas period has been, United have build upon last year. The board will show there real colours now over the next few months.
 

Maradona10

Woodward’s biggest fan
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
5,697
Neville agrees with Mourinho backers and People who say transfer policy is shit, he clearly cant name players or say Ed has done a bad job, but this is most he can say without burning ties with the club and he has said it.

 

7even

Resident moaner, hypocrite and moron
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
4,219
Location
Lifetime vacation
Just so we set the record....

One main reason we didn't re invest the Ronaldo money back in the days was because of the owners PIK loan. Whatever who's made up later it was clear as daylight that part of the Glazers business plan was first to get rid of the PIK loan as soon as possible, and that was only achievable in 2010 and after that re invest the majority of future profits. The reason Fergie&Gill didn't spend a fortune the last year before retirement was they wanted to leave a war chest to the new manager who was coming. That was the message from the club at that time. Right or wrong is debatable.

Regarding Sir Alex and spending money it was also clear that he was losing touch with the market, especially agent fees and their influence the last couple of years of his managerial career. Not paying agent fee's in the Hazard debacle was a miss judgement based on his inability to accept a new era with more power to agents and players.

Finally regarding today. We have invest poorly the last five years. Thats a fact. Buying Lukaku and Lindelöf was because of Zlatans and Rojo's injury. That throw us back one season. We have upgraded only three spots, Martial, Bailly and Pogba. Matic is a Carrick replacement. The rest is expensive squad material with astronomical wages comparing to their input. My personal biggest disappointment is why we didn't buy Sadio Mané and Thiago Alcantara. I blind could have spottet their talent, it was right in front of us for at least 12 month and they was available for peanuts. Grrrrrr Sometimes I shake of anger when I think about it. Give me Moyes for five minutes in a closed room and Im ready to go to jail afterwards. I hate him for this!!
 

Livewire1974

If it moves, report it.
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
7,827
Location
Dublin
The article is bullshit. Winning the league is an absolute money spinner marketing wise.
 

Maradona10

Woodward’s biggest fan
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
5,697
The article is bullshit. Winning the league is an absolute money spinner marketing wise.
Its not, else arsenal would have more marketability than chelsea or Liverpool. Liverpool have not won a league title in 26 years but remain very competitive in commercial income . Leicestor won the league and i dont thing suddenly they are getting iron board partners from namibia.
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,052
complete bollocks.

The Glazers have allowed managers complete freedom, and made available massive funds. The only player we couldn't get is greizmann who was not allowed to leave for anyone.
We do not have the financial power of the likes of City and PSG, but neither do Real, Barca, Chelsea, or Bayern. Not to mention the fact that the City squad is not much better than ours. They simply have coaching staff who have got them all in one mind and spirit.

The truth is that Mourinho is shown to be a very average coach unless he buys all the best players.
This is the truth.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,581
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Year's upon year's of under investment when fergie was in charge is clear to be seen. Sir Alex was able to squeeze everything out of hours players, sometimes with very average ones. It was the sheer momentum that meant the club were up there every season. Then the unplanned departure, ageing squad like Rooney, Rio, Vidic, Evra ect came back to bight. Moyes was a disaster and Van Gaal sucked the life out of the club combined with horrific purchases. You could argue that Jose is still trying to clear much of the deadwood out. Too many average players and duds. We would have needed a director of football at the start to make sure the signings and vision was right. Mourihno is slowly getting it right, he's bringing in better players overall. He's got rid of as many as he could stop far, with more to flush out hopefully soon.

The recent flat performances in my option have came from the city game. It's no excuse and not good enough but the players have lost total momentum. The game killed our hopes in the league. Injuries in different areas have shown weak squad depth. I mean proper players to come in. The problems are glaring with width. We were relying on wing backs like Young and Valencia. Top professionals but are ageing and isn't there proper position. Playing Mata on one side then rashford/martial on the other side ain't going to solve it either. We need fast natural winger's who can run to the line and cross. We also need a winger that can hit a corner, barely beat the first man. We look a bang average side in cm creativly when Pogba isn't there or at it. Too many for what we've reason aren't there or at it. Carrick, Fellaini and Herrera either don't to be here or at the end of there career in Carrick's case. There is a spine of good players when everyone is fit and at it but not near enough. We have been relying on a on form Lingard top save us in games. Great squad player but not a starter. When Scott gets a run in the midfield you know our squad is stretched.

We will see now if the Glazers are happy to get fourth or want to get back to the top. People chatting rubbish of what they invested too, it's not 1996 when 300m gets you and entire squad of quality. When Southampton players are going for £75m that shows where the market is. The market might be crazy but the money premier league clubs are getting is also mental. Season tickets combined with Adidas, Chevrolet other commercial deals and TV money mean United don't need to scrimp. The under investment over the years at critical times are there to be seen. Jose is demanding more because he knows we need it. A team that finished 6th and buy three players are unlikely to be cruising the league the following season. Nah the deficiencies in the squad are there to be seen. The sooner Blind, Darmian, Shaw, Fellaini and even Herrera if he wants out, go the better long term. I would rather start getting players out and in this window rather than a huge overhaul in the summer. As sad as it we should be planning for next season. Mourihno needs more money and a new contract and address situations head on. People can bang on all they want about Jose but Manchester United is a huge job, don't think there are many out there at the moment able for it. It's not the time for risk with management, it's about getting stability and making progress. As disappointing as the Christmas period has been, United have build upon last year. The board will show there real colours now over the next few months.
Underinvestment clear to be seen - where exactly? Maybe the goalie? Maybe the fullbacks who were bought as wingers? Maybe the 2 cbs who were highly thought off in British football? Or maybe, wait, all the others were bought later
 

Toad

Full Member
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
3,668
Location
England
Fully agree with you. What they dont realise is it was winning the league regularly that lifted the club up to this exalted position, and by having turned it into a cash cow with lets say modest spending (compared to City) on players, this cannot last. All the new foreign and British fans, the kids who then become adults, will obviously support whoever is the best football team. If Utd aint at the top it wont be Utd. In fact City could become the new Utd at the top of the pile. Lets hope Woody and the window men realise this before its too late.
I agree with this, kids will only support who is winning and will then grow to support them not just because they are winning but because of the love for the club. If people start to support City in this way then history of a club will eventually count for nothing at all as the top supported clubs won’t have any history making it pointless.
 

Hasawi Red

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
59
I've already accepted I'm going to have to get used to seeing kids in city shirts everywhere over the coming years.

Seriously, unless you have an emotional investment in United how many young hearts and minds are they capturing with their football these days? City, Tottenham, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Arsenal are doing a better job of that.

I didn't have much choice because of my Dad tbh, but I also grew up watching a team that played great football with passion and that captured my imagination before I fully understood the concept of winning and success. I'd give anything for another Gary Neville in the side, feck it I'd take Phil!

Is that happening at all now? How am I going to convince my future children to follow the club? Honestly, if I have to raise City fans I'm going to just drink myself into an early grave and leave them with a mountain of debts.
Im a red since i was 12 in the late 90s and have been a die hard fan since. There is a reason for it and as you said there is no emotional side to it except that i watched them more often and grew very attached because of the character of Sir Alex and the style of play. It was ohh so attractive and romantic. The club is losing it now and I can’t even get my little brothers to like United cause they aren’t winning and the playing style is just not there.

Style of play and a clear identity plus winning is what gets you new fans. The United board’s attitude is shocking if the article is right.

Its very sad really to see how the club is being run.
 

N91

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
10
Yes there is a difference between the clubs in terms of transfer spending limits but it can't be used as an excuse for the current situation. We had more than enough money to build a team that know how to play football but instead of that we have found ourselves struggling to play like most of the top teams. We don't need to spend more to beat midtable and struggling to avoid relegation teams.

In recent years, the likes of Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Monaco, Napoli, Spurs were successful in achieving their goals by signing good players, playing attractive football and winning trophies, they achieved what they did without needing to spend +600m.
 

Sterling Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
4,289
Another one. Poor planning yes I’ll give you that. But poor transfer record? How exactly?
Obertan
Michael Owen
Buttner
Bebe
Manucho
Diouf

We bought a lot of absolute garbage for being the best club in England...

Or are those players good enough? I hear constant whining that "Mhiki isn't good enough. Lingard isn't good enough. Fellaini symbolizes our ambition. "

Yet when we bought players that clearly were not Manchester United caliber in droves, it was a lot of excuses about value in the market. Scoffing at other teams like City and Chelsea spending freely.
The tone is different now that we have tangible poor results of our poor planning.
 

Sterling Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
4,289
Just so we set the record....

One main reason we didn't re invest the Ronaldo money back in the days was because of the owners PIK loan. Whatever who's made up later it was clear as daylight that part of the Glazers business plan was first to get rid of the PIK loan as soon as possible, and that was only achievable in 2010 and after that re invest the majority of future profits. The reason Fergie&Gill didn't spend a fortune the last year before retirement was they wanted to leave a war chest to the new manager who was coming. That was the message from the club at that time. Right or wrong is debatable.

Regarding Sir Alex and spending money it was also clear that he was losing touch with the market, especially agent fees and their influence the last couple of years of his managerial career. Not paying agent fee's in the Hazard debacle was a miss judgement based on his inability to accept a new era with more power to agents and players.

Finally regarding today. We have invest poorly the last five years. Thats a fact. Buying Lukaku and Lindelöf was because of Zlatans and Rojo's injury. That throw us back one season. We have upgraded only three spots, Martial, Bailly and Pogba. Matic is a Carrick replacement. The rest is expensive squad material with astronomical wages comparing to their input. My personal biggest disappointment is why we didn't buy Sadio Mané and Thiago Alcantara. I blind could have spottet their talent, it was right in front of us for at least 12 month and they was available for peanuts. Grrrrrr Sometimes I shake of anger when I think about it. Give me Moyes for five minutes in a closed room and Im ready to go to jail afterwards. I hate him for this!!
This is absolutely correct. And many of us knew it then as well.

But me included, excused it thinking we would have a competent new manager that could make do. And therein lies the unforgivable mistake - hiring the absolute worst candidate to succeed Sir Alex at the biggest job in football. Diabolical that it was allowed to be Moyes.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,581
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Obertan
Michael Owen
Buttner
Bebe
Manucho
Diouf

We bought a lot of absolute garbage for being the best club in England...

Or are those players good enough? I hear constant whining that "Mhiki isn't good enough. Lingard isn't good enough. Fellaini symbolizes our ambition. "

Yet when we bought players that clearly were not Manchester United caliber in droves, it was a lot of excuses about value in the market. Scoffing at other teams like City and Chelsea spending freely.
The tone is different now that we have tangible poor results of our poor planning.
How are any of those players related to anything that’s happening now? That’s my point
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,187
Location
Montevideo
Glazers and Woodward are easy scapegoats for lazy journalism.

Carragher article yesterday hits the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with executive management and more to do with the football manager.

We spent more than Chelsea and Liverpool. Two teams that play a much better brand of football than we do.
Chelsea have had a better and more stable/coherent squad, winning the league twice since SAF retired.

Liverpool haven't and won't win anything.
 
Last edited:

Massive Spanner

The Football Grinch
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
28,392
Location
Tool shed
How are any of those players related to anything that’s happening now? That’s my point
Surely the point is that fact that none of them are related to what we do now? The investment in the squad was very poor in Fergie's last few years and it's hurting us since. Hazard being a prime example.
 

FujiVice

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
7,367
Ferguson is what kept us a football club for years. They took it off the badge in the late 90s because "we arent just a football club anymore." This has been long in the works, and it's blown up in our faces now we dont have the success on the pitch. We were heading down the path even before the Glazers took over. Peter Kenyon and Sven Goran Eriksonn sounded like a right nightmare combo when Ferguson decided to retire the first time.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Neville agrees with Mourinho backers and People who say transfer policy is shit, he clearly cant name players or say Ed has done a bad job, but this is most he can say without burning ties with the club and he has said it.

Thanks for posting.

So Neville agrees with my 'Back José' thread... I feel all important now. Ooer.
 

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
Oh so is Gary Neville back to talking sense after it was clear he talks out of his arse? Hard to keep up.
 

The Outsider

New Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2017
Messages
1,227
Supports
Chelsea
I agree with a number of the posters about the Glazers and being into Utd for the profit motive and so more concerned about the Champions League participation rather than winning.
I also think at least one player purchase was to expand TV coverage in more markets. Mourinho has probably taken the job ( there were not many high profile clubs coming after him) with the understanding he has to play this player and so is building a squad with a handicap. Though to be fair the player will occasionally turn up and deliver. Don't expect JM to talk about this I expect confidentiality contracts have been signed.

I was surprised you bought Lukaku, for me a counter-attacking striker so not a good fit and he is not scoring many goals with his feet and being asked to head the ball which is not his natural game.

I can't understand Herrera being on the bench, he is a good midfielder if not play him, sell him and generate revenue from other players.

You do not have natural width for good crosses and Rashford is not the answer and also losing his skills as a striker.

Miki-T has not worked out and again a strange buy for me. Selling may be the better option.

Lingard as a Solskjaer type player seems to be working.

Matic has seemed to fill the DM gap.

Mata looks your best creative player and I think Martial has the skills to open up defences.

I think Ibra's days at the top are finally over due to complications post injury recovery.

You are in 3rd and I think you will finish 4th yet are still in the UCL and have the FA cup.

Mourinho is still capable of springing surprises and winning matches yet never on all fronts, IMO.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,581
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Surely the point is that fact that none of them are related to what we do now? The investment in the squad was very poor in Fergie's last few years and it's hurting us since. Hazard being a prime example.
But Hazard was Fergies choice not to pay so moot point.

The fact is DeGea, Valencia, young, Smalling, Jones are first team regulars despite this now being the 3rd manager post Fergie. That tells us that it’s not fergies investments but what the 3 eejits since have done with 600 million
 

BluesJr

Owns the moral low ground
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
9,052
Scouting and lack of a long term plan is the problem. Not the Glazers not spending money.
 

red thru&thru

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
7,657
Scouting and lack of a long term plan is the problem. Not the Glazers not spending money.
I think the club knew this. Even when Jose came in last year, I’m sure Jose made some comments last year about not realising how bad things were at the club.

We restructured our youth set up and brought in Ribalta for our scouting. Unfortunately, will take a couple of years to bare fruit.

You just have to look at what City done to Barca by taking their head honchos. Barca are kind of suffering due to it at the moment.
 

Massive Spanner

The Football Grinch
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
28,392
Location
Tool shed
But Hazard was Fergies choice not to pay so moot point.

The fact is DeGea, Valencia, young, Smalling, Jones are first team regulars despite this now being the 3rd manager post Fergie. That tells us that it’s not fergies investments but what the 3 eejits since have done with 600 million
Valencia and Young has to be restrained as full backs because our full backs were so poor and lacking. Jones and smalling have both heavily struggled to make an impact and I think only the former is likely to actually be a top PL center back if he can get over his injuries. DDG was Fergie's last great signing.

The point is that the squad was certainly not in a good place due to under investment and the brilliance of Fergie managing to win the league with such a meh squad (and the world's best striker at the time) made us all think it was in a better place than it was.

I think it's a mix, we had an aging squad that lacked investment for years when Fergie left and since then have poured lots of money into failed transfers.

Take City as an example, at their core they've had Silva, Aguero, Komoany, and Yaya since Fergie was still here. They bought some bad players in the meantime but the brilliance of those players kept their squad stable throughout it. The only comparable player we have to that is DDG.
 

edgar allan

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
2,734
Chelsea have had a better and more stable/coherent squad, winning the league twice since SAF retired.

Liverpool haven't and won't win anything.
Jose left them in a mess and Conte turned it round in no time.
I think Liverpool are aiming a bit higher than the league cup or Europa.
 

edgar allan

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
2,734
I think the club knew this. Even when Jose came in last year, I’m sure Jose made some comments last year about not realising how bad things were at the club.

We restructured our youth set up and brought in Ribalta for our scouting. Unfortunately, will take a couple of years to bare fruit.

You just have to look at what City done to Barca by taking their head honchos. Barca are kind of suffering due to it at the moment.
Can you see Jose giving promising youth players a chance?
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
38,543
Can you see Jose giving promising youth players a chance?
Not playing Devil's Advocate but he's given youth as much chance as Pep has. SAF after the class of 92 really didn't promote that many.

If we're looking at the current crop, then Poch is about the only one who has consistently done it but then again, in reality, it's not that many
 

edgar allan

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
2,734
Not playing Devil's Advocate but he's given youth as much chance as Pep has. SAF after the class of 92 really didn't promote that many.

If we're looking at the current crop, then Poch is about the only one who has consistently done it but then again, in reality, it's not that many
That is true, so the answer is very unlikely. So the any restructuring of the youth set up is a minor factor in this.
 

Fully Fledged

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
16,274
Location
Midlands UK
Obertan
Michael Owen
Buttner
Bebe
Manucho
Diouf

We bought a lot of absolute garbage for being the best club in England...

Or are those players good enough? I hear constant whining that "Mhiki isn't good enough. Lingard isn't good enough. Fellaini symbolizes our ambition. "

Yet when we bought players that clearly were not Manchester United caliber in droves, it was a lot of excuses about value in the market. Scoffing at other teams like City and Chelsea spending freely.
The tone is different now that we have tangible poor results of our poor planning.
Look at the amount of players City and Chelsea have brought over the years that have never played for the club and likely never will.

As for the likes of Lingard there are a lot of people on here talking about the way that good coaches get the best out of players. Take Delph at City for example of a good coach getting more out of a player then people would think is in there.

No team has a squad of 25 world class players. Very few have a team of 11 world class players I know for a fact that City don't have 11 world class players starting every week.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
Not playing Devil's Advocate but he's given youth as much chance as Pep has. SAF after the class of 92 really didn't promote that many.

If we're looking at the current crop, then Poch is about the only one who has consistently done it but then again, in reality, it's not that many
You sure about this? Many ended up like Cleverley/Welbeck and got moved to lesser clubs but were given a fair chance by SAF.

You can't sell short SAF's willingness to take risks on youngsters. The pogba situation was more an exception than the norm
 

liamp

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
1,203
Agree with elements of the article but a lot of it is just pandering to a base that will always lap up blaming the American owners.

Some of the stuff about Woodward is bang on. He has no discernible long-term plan for our football operations and compared to other technical directors or managing directors, he's woefully inexperienced and unfamiliar with the football world. Most of the stuff Woodward does should really be imperceptible to supporters, but we have high-profile cockups like the 3 stooges trying to negotiate the Herrera deal, signing Fellaini for more than his release clause, the Di Maria disaster, and most recently Real stringing us along like a cheap date with Morata. The point in the other article about United looking for a Director of Football Operations is encouraging, because hopefully this will allow Woodward to take a step back and let someone else handle negotiations.

What's interesting is what's happening at Arsenal. They're about to go through something like what happened to us when SAF left. It's almost like they're noting the mistakes that we made and trying to put a plan in place to prevent what's happened to us from happening to them. They went and poached Raul Sanllehi from Barca to be their head of football relations to try to avoid a Woodward situation. They went and poached Sven Mislintat away from Dortmund to lead and revamp their scouting network. It took us 4 years after SAF left to hire Ribalta to do that. What we've done from a footballing operations perspective after SAF is basically a case study that other clubs can learn from on how not to run a football club
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
Underinvestment clear to be seen - where exactly? Maybe the goalie? Maybe the fullbacks who were bought as wingers? Maybe the 2 cbs who were highly thought off in British football? Or maybe, wait, all the others were bought later
The thing is pretty much Mourinho was building the new spine for the team the last 2 season and bad luck(in Zlatan and Rojo) means we can't move on to other area given not being back with bigger budget.

The spine from SAF last years were gutted and was not rebuilt well. And in DDG case, he was minutes from becoming a Madrid player. Let that sink in to see how bad we had been heading in those years
 

Art Vandelay

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
5,729
Location
Northern Ireland
I don't get the bit about City's extreme planning. They just seem to be buying a load of players and when some don't work out they buy a load more.

I'm not giving Mourinho or Woodward a free pass, but Woodward tried to get Moyes what he wanted that first summer it's not his fault he was chasing players he was never going to get if that's who he was told to go after. Then LVG completely mismanaged the squad, Mourinho has been brought in to work with the damage done by those two idiots. Given what we've spent and the obvious deficiencies still in the squad it's obvious getting it back to the standards required is going to take time and the right players being available. It's not as easy or quick as the media would like to paint it.
 

Sterling Archer

New Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
4,289
Surely the point is that fact that none of them are related to what we do now? The investment in the squad was very poor in Fergie's last few years and it's hurting us since. Hazard being a prime example.
Fantastic way to look at it.

@Fully Fledged @golden_blunder

It's not simply a matter of which players we signed, which ones we let go. It's the big picture. Manchester United lacked ambition from the top down. The same drive that led to us knocking Pool off their perch and amending CL failures has gone.

United win the Champions League in Moscow and then our 20th Premier League title cementing our status as the most successful English club. But that's the end of trying.

We were dismantled in two CL finals by a great team. Did we let that spur us on to building another great team? Did we try to win another CL? No, we withered away and settled.

The fact that City won that Premier League title in the last minute against QPR should have driven us to reassert ourselves for another several years. We let a 8 point lead slip away meekly. The purchase of RVP was frankly a hail mary for one last glory before SAF retired. And then we hired a mid table fraudster to take over.

This club stinks of ego and business priority at the top over football passion. That's why we are here now.
 

Morpheus 7

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
3,710
Location
Ireland
Underinvestment clear to be seen - where exactly? Maybe the goalie? Maybe the fullbacks who were bought as wingers? Maybe the 2 cbs who were highly thought off in British football? Or maybe, wait, all the others were bought later
How far are you going back. Only a clown would think Fergie invested properly in the later years. Young prospects in Jones and Smalling are one thing, playing Gibson, Cleverley and Anderson is something else. Buying strikers and neglecting other areas was evident for years, hence the horrific balance of the squad. Feck the Glazer's and every dope in here that defends them.