On field Sledging

[McGrathsipan]

So what is acceptable these days and what isnt?

Back when I was playing I was being marked by a fairly short fullback and Lord of the rings was out at the time. I kept calling him a hobbit and Frodo Baggins and he was losing it, he couldnt get near me that day. I could see him get more and more wound up as I kept it up. I told the lads at half time and they started doing it. I reckon the fella lasted about 5 mins of the 2nd half before he snapped and attempted a two footer on me. The final straw was even his own team were laughing when I shouted that someone should mark the hobbit at a corner, he snapped and chased me out of the box as I was coming away with the ball. Didnt even get the lunge right. Straight red.

It was pretty funny and totally got to him. We played the whole second half against 10 men and won.

But is it cheating or is it acceptable to sledge someone to the point when they lose it?

**
Racism or Homophobia can be left out of the discussion as these are clearly emotive topics that are not acceptable.

 

[Haddock]

God this is such an Australian preoccupation.

 

[Grinner]

Well it should all come under Ungentlemanly Conduct but no ref ever books for that anymore.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Sledging to gain an edge is childish and weak, but understandable in high level sport.

However... if it’s genuinely funny, all bets are off.

In your example, Hobbit or Frodo are funny once apiece. But the references have to get bigger and properly funny to not be lame.

 

[Sandikan]

So what is acceptable these days and what isnt?

Back when I was playing I was being marked by a fairly short fullback and Lord of the rings was out at the time. I kept calling him a hobbit and Frodo Baggins and he was losing it, he couldnt get near me that day. I could see him get more and more wound up as I kept it up. I told the lads at half time and they started doing it. I reckon the fella lasted about 5 mins of the 2nd half before he snapped and attempted a two footer on me. The final straw was even his own team were laughing when I shouted that someone should mark the hobbit at a corner, he snapped and chased me out of the box as I was coming away with the ball. Didnt even get the lunge right. Straight red.

It was pretty funny and totally got to him. We played the whole second half against 10 men and won.

But is it cheating or is it acceptable to sledge someone to the point when they lose it?

**
Racism or Homophobia can be left out of the discussion as these are clearly emotive topics that are not acceptable.

What's your cut off for abusing someone due to their appearance?
Or is it ok if you shoehorn in some film reference?

 

[AgentSmith]

Seems unnecessary but effective at the Sunday League level. I wouldn’t particularly want to win as a result of ruining someone else’s day to the point that they snapped though. Seems desperate.

I also doubt it’d be effective at the top level and I think a player who tried it consistently would get an unfavourable reaction from his own team mates as much as the opposition. Calling Messi ‘Frodo’ wouldn’t pack the same punch.

 

[McGrathsipan]

What's your cut off for abusing someone due to their appearance?
Or is it ok if you shoehorn in some film reference?

What's your cut off for abusing someone due to their appearance?
Or is it ok if you shoehorn in some film reference?

You tell me whats ok thats what I am asking about?

I have been abused over my appearance my whole life. I dont let it bother me.
Film references make no difference. Just a root for the sledge at that time.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Seems unnecessary but effective at the Sunday League level. I wouldn’t particularly want to win as a result of ruining someone else’s day to the point that they snapped though. Seems desperate.

I also doubt it’d be effective at the top level and I think a player who tried it consistently would get an unfavourable reaction from his own team mates as much as the opposition. Calling Messi ‘Frodo’ wouldn’t pack the same punch.

Yeah, Messi would probably make a show of you on the field and leave you on your arse

 

[Lord SInister]

sledging is fine IMO, as long as it isn't bigotry or discriminating.
I think sledging should be more about mocking someone 's ability in the game, would be more fun.

 

[Teja]

If we're talking appearances, Shelvey gets some Voldemort references thrown at him by the crowd atleast. No idea if the players actually get in on it as well.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Jason lee and his Pineapple head hair cut

 

[Grinner]

Jason lee and his Pineapple head hair cut

Not really a good example as it was started by Baddiel and Skinner and then there's Baddiel doing a blackface routine.

 

[Acole9]

I remember one match we played one lad on the other team was targeting our captain, he kept calling him a fat cnut the whole game.

 

[Oranges038]

I remember a guy once standing over a free-kick a good 35 yards out with the Ronaldo stance, before the ref blew I shouted come on then Ronaldo.

Needless to say, he struck it well, so well that it went well wide and over the net behind the goal.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Not really a good example as it was started by Baddiel and Skinner and then there's Baddiel doing a blackface routine.

I don't remember that I remember nick Hancock on They think its all Over slaughtering his hair cut . Just his hair cut

 

[Hoof the ball]

Racism or Homophobia can be left out of the discussion as these are clearly emotive topics that are not acceptable.

Someone is born of a certain colour and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain sexual preference and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain physical characteristic, like height. We say they're vertically challenged and society joins in calling them Hobbits.

In all the above no decision was made by the individual to be a certain way, or look a certain way. Am I overreacting for thinking that there's no consistency in our standards?

 

[Grinner]

I don't remember that I remember nick Hancock on They think its all Over slaughtering his hair cut . Just his hair cut

 

[Pink Moon]

Someone is born of a certain colour and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain sexual preference and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain physical characteristic, like height. We say they're vertically challenged and society joins in calling them Hobbits.

In all the above no decision was made by the individual to be a certain way, or look a certain way. Am I overreacting for thinking that there's no consistency in our standards?

No I think you're spot on.

Plus mocking someone for something they can't help or change like physical characteristics is such a horrible thing to do because people are often sensitive about it already and we don't know what's going on inside their head etc.

 

[M Bison]

I remember playing and our centre half starting getting called Jack Rodwell, he responded to the lad who called it him by naming him Tony Hibbert, was one of those where you had to be there I think, was hilarious at the time!

 

[AkaAkuma]

Someone is born of a certain colour and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain sexual preference and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain physical characteristic, like height. We say they're vertically challenged and society joins in calling them Hobbits.

In all the above no decision was made by the individual to be a certain way, or look a certain way. Am I overreacting for thinking that there's no consistency in our standards?

In this day and age I agree. Having said that the OP is funny and if everybody can become friends and go out of there way to make peace with the target then it can be a good bonding experience and usually something is learnt. Boys fight and learn to respect one another.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Shane Warne famously destroyed Ian Bell by calling him the Sherminator (America pie reference). That to me is good sledging, it’s pretty lighthearted and fun. Calling someone a queer or a n***** isnt sledging, it’s just abuse, there’s a clear distinction between the two.

 

[Bondi77]

So what is acceptable these days and what isnt?

Back when I was playing I was being marked by a fairly short fullback and Lord of the rings was out at the time. I kept calling him a hobbit and Frodo Baggins and he was losing it, he couldnt get near me that day. I could see him get more and more wound up as I kept it up. I told the lads at half time and they started doing it. I reckon the fella lasted about 5 mins of the 2nd half before he snapped and attempted a two footer on me. The final straw was even his own team were laughing when I shouted that someone should mark the hobbit at a corner, he snapped and chased me out of the box as I was coming away with the ball. Didnt even get the lunge right. Straight red.

It was pretty funny and totally got to him. We played the whole second half against 10 men and won.

But is it cheating or is it acceptable to sledge someone to the point when they lose it?

**
Racism or Homophobia can be left out of the discussion as these are clearly emotive topics that are not acceptable.

If it would have really bothered the guy I am sure he would have sorted you out after the game.

 

[McGrathsipan]

In this day and age I agree. Having said that the OP is funny and if everybody can become friends and go out of there way to make peace with the target then it can be a good bonding experience and usually something is learnt. Boys fight and learn to respect one another.

I shook hands with Frodo at the next game we met. He wasn't angry and he also pointed out to me I wasn't exactly high tower myself.
There was no malice

 

[VidaRed]

Someone is born of a certain colour and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain sexual preference and it's genetics. We say you can't make fun of them for it and society agrees.
Someone is born of a certain physical characteristic, like height. We say they're vertically challenged and society joins in calling them Hobbits.

In all the above no decision was made by the individual to be a certain way, or look a certain way. Am I overreacting for thinking that there's no consistency in our standards?

I don't recall short people ever being persecuted throughout history while people have been burned at the stake or enslaved for being gay or black and therein lies the difference in the standards.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I shook hands with Frodo at the next game we met. He wasn't angry and he also pointed out to me I wasn't exactly high tower myself.
There was no malice

Bubba Smith who played him, sadly died in 2011

 

[Hoof the ball]

I don't recall short people ever being persecuted throughout history while people have been burned at the stake or enslaved for being gay or black and therein lies the difference in the standards.

So the standard bearer for what is permissible for mockery is whether or not there is historical precedent for that thing? Or that there's a certain level of persecutory history that meets a minimum requirement? You see how that's problematic, right? According to that rationale, nothing that becomes contemporaneously an issue can be treated with care because there isn't an historical precedent for it, and even if there was, anything short of absolute capital torture won't qualify it.

Let's go with something a little more scientific.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

strong inverse association between height and suicide in Swedish men which may signify the importance of childhood exposure in the etiology of adult mental disorder or reflect stigmatization or discrimination encountered by short men in their adult lives. A record linkage study of the birth, conscription, mortality, family, and census register data of 1,299,177 Swedish men followed from age 18 to a maximum of age 49 was performed and it was found that a 5-cm (2-inch) increase in height was associated with a 9% decrease in suicide risk.

 

[Dominos]

So the standard bearer for what is permissible for mockery is whether or not there is historical precedent for that thing? Or that there's a certain level of persecutory history that meets a minimum requirement? You see how that's problematic, right? According to that rationale, nothing that becomes contemporaneously an issue can be treated with care because there isn't an historical precedent for it, and even if there was, anything short of absolute capital torture won't qualify it.

Let's go with something a little more scientific.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

Very good post.

It's the exact same logic feminists/liberals use to justify their body shaming of men because "well we think it negatively affects women more so therefore we're allowed to do it". Meanwhile young men are killing themselves left and right.

 

[Harry190]

As a defender, I'd egg the opposition a lot. It saps the opponent. And it's fun when you're a big guy.

 

[snk123]

I also doubt it’d be effective at the top level and I think a player who tried it consistently would get an unfavourable reaction from his own team mates as much as the opposition.

 

[AgentSmith]

Yeah that’s a good example tbf.

Not sure it’s really still a thing though in the modern game which has been pretty heavily sanitised. Gotta go back 15 years for that one.

So the standard bearer for what is permissible for mockery is whether or not there is historical precedent for that thing? Or that there's a certain level of persecutory history that meets a minimum requirement? You see how that's problematic, right? According to that rationale, nothing that becomes contemporaneously an issue can be treated with care because there isn't an historical precedent for it, and even if there was, anything short of absolute capital torture won't qualify it.

Let's go with something a little more scientific.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/pdf/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.7.1373

That’s a good post.

Kinda reinforces the point that taking the piss out of someone you don’t already have a rapport with is always a risky game.

It’s hard to know whether an innocuous comment by your own standards might be the thing that pushes another person over the edge.

 

[Grylte]

Well it should all come under Ungentlemanly Conduct but no ref ever books for that anymore.

I think you only need 4 of the letters in that word.

 

[snk123]

Yeah that’s a good example tbf.

Not sure it’s really still a thing though in the modern game which has been pretty heavily sanitised. Gotta go back 15 years for that one.

Feck. This makes me feel old af.

I think VAR has also contributed somewhat to this. Players are more careful and know they can’t get away with any malice now.

No way is Michael Ball stepping on Ronaldo’s chest today.. and so on.

So that in effect has rendered sledging less
potent.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Difficult to say but it does make me think of some of the people I used to play football with people where the slightest negativity would make them snap.

I hardly thought about it at the time - if anything, I was just wary of being on the receiving end of something - but it does seem a bit sad looking back. Perhaps they were desperately unhappy and playing sport was their way of doing something they liked. Either way, it sounds like the guy was probably having an off day. His teammates sound worse for laughing about it.

Also reminds me of some of the shit I did when I played (school/uni) that I'm now not pleased about. I was overly competitive and loved winding people up.

 

[Maluco]

I would say the example in the OP could well have been making fun of someone with a real complex about their height/appearance and probably sent them home feeling terrible.

I can remember banter at school that we all smiled and laughed along with, but went home feeling terrible about. People often hide how much it effects them.

It’s genuinely a pretty horrible story and I think that risking someone feeling bad about their appearance to get an edge in a football game is pretty low.

Sorry OP.

 

[McGrathsipan]

I would say the example in the OP could well have been making fun of someone with a real complex about their height/appearance and probably sent them home feeling terrible.

I can remember banter at school that we all smiled and laughed along with, but went home feeling terrible about. People often hide how much it effects them.

It’s genuinely a pretty horrible story and I think that risking someone feeling bad about their appearance to get an edge in a football game is pretty low.

Sorry OP.

He gave as good as he got

 

[Maluco]

He gave as good as he got

I am sure he did, and he would have been wrong for doing it back. I just don’t think it’s worth the risk. I could be being sensitive, but I have seen it having a negative effect often enough.

Sure, some might write it off as banter and are fine by that night, but it is the sort of thing that can strip people of their confidence. The fact that even his own team were laughing at him by the end is something I would probably remember.

 

[Robaldo]

Thought the OP was borderline okay, until the guy's own teammates started laughing at him and apparently that makes it even funnier.

Understand that short people don't have historic persecution against them, but 21 guys laughing at the shortest guy on the pitch doesn't sit any easier than other discrimination tbh...