Only Fools and Horses Draft R1 - Isotope vs Himann

With all players at their peak, which team do you think would win this game?


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Šjor Bepo

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vs


Team Isotope

TACTIC


The plan is suffocating midfield and defence, and hit on the break with the pace of Jairzinho and Lukaku. This will force long shots, to the delight of De Gea, one of the best shot stopper ever.

Nedved and Jairzinho will be on free role, with Nedved on more playmaking side, with Jairzinho to either as striker or winger. The 6 times Kickers team of the season, M. Kaltz will be the more attacking fullback to deliver his banana cross.

PS: Sorry on Nedved, 00-03. G. Cahill, 12-15.


Team Himann

Tactics

This is a take on Simeone's 4-4-2 but with some differences.

Simeone Tactics Overview

The following image (figure 1) is how they line up currently for most part.


Figure 1: Current Atletico Formation

As you can probably guess from Figure 1 and your own experience of watching them, this roughly involves the following:

Attack
  • Clever attackers who know how to find space.
  • Interchangable attack with players switching positions frequently.
  • Generally speaking one slightly more creative second striker paired with more of a battering-ram type up front.
  • Counter attack can start from anywhere on the pitch. This means players will have to be able to play that first pass well.
  • Well-drilled offensive lines. Each player knows when to drop deep, when to rotate, which gap to fill, etc.
Defence
  • Narrow formation with wingers tucking in centrally.
  • Mid to low block depending on the opposition.
  • An aggressive CB to deal with the balls lofted into the box.
  • Well-drilled defensive lines. Each player knows when to drop deep, position themselves well to hold the structure, etc.
  • Press can start from anywhere on the pitch, but typically it starts deeper.
  • Dominant keeper.

Let's go into the above points in more detail in the following section.

How Simeone's Tactics Compare to Mine


Attack


  • Suitability: Atletico Madrid have also built quite the reputation off of their counter attacking style of play. After winning possession, they don’t typically look to go long. Instead they look to play quick intelligent passes into their attackers. Their attack is quite mobile, often looking for spaces to run into and gaps to fill. They have a very vertical approach to their play, looking to spring their attacks quickly. Notably, they’ve also been caught offside more than any other team in the league. This is a statistic that they’ve often been at the top of the charts for over the years, but not one that they’ve ever attempted to change. In their quick counter attacking style, offsides are simply bound to happen more often.

    They’ve also continued to rely on the individual ability of players like Correa and Koke to create chances through skill rather than elaborate combinations and team possession turning into brilliance. This is easily replicatable with Johnstone and Heynckes in my view. Griezmann/Felix are the main proponents of this kind of attack as they played a big role in linking things up. In my case, I have Baggio here who is an upgrade in every sense. Johnstone and Heynckes also switch positions with the front two at times, making this a very fluid front 4 in the attacking phase. Lambert is my sheep, but he fits in terms of being the type of player for the system - aerially dominant and also a player who can be the focal point and charge into the box a la Morata or Costa.

  • Differences: Although we have almost the same defensive structure, this team has more options in attack. The wingers are not only comfortable defending centrally but also capable of drifting wider as more traditional wingers. Jair will also play a bigger role and help attack that flank.

Defence


Figure 2: The structure

  • Suitability: As you can see in Figure 2, the team is very narrow and generally structured in two banks of four. Pressing typically starts deeper and the idea is to congest the spaces. This, of course, allows the opposition to have the ball further away from the defensive lines and the stats back this up. The central midfielders in front of the defence will patrol, close down, challenge and force backwards, leaving the defence behind them to clear any lofted deliveries into the area. They’ve kept 48% of possession in La Liga last season, only the 11th most in the league. Unsurprisingly given their block, they force their opposition into shots from outside the eighteen yard box more than any other team in La Liga. 50% of their shots against come outside of the 18-yard box, compared to 43% inside the 18 (the lowest in the league) and 7% in the 6-yard box.

    Due to the high amount of lofted deliveries into the box, the likes of Diego Godin or Jimenez are vital to their success. They need that kind of an aggressive CB in there who will be an absolute beast in the air and deal with deliveries into the box. As such, it's fortunate that I have the perfect player here in Diego Godin. He's an absolute physical speciment and a beast of a player. He attacks the ball brilliantly and there is no better fit as he's simply what this system is based around. In Kohler he has an ideal partner and the way this team presses, the opposition are pushed wider to loft balls in, which these two players will sort out ever single day. They're also phenomenal man-markers and perfect fits for this tactic.

    As far as midfielders are concerned, both Vieira and Bonhof have high energy and workrate and are critical to the pressing that this team thrives on in front of the backline, with Bonhof being more of the DM in my setup. They are an ideal fit to patrol, close down and shield the area in front of the defense the way that a Partey or a Saul might do.

  • Differences: Not many significant differences here. Jair is the only unusual choice because he's typically a winger. However, I selected Jair with this setup in mind because he's great at pressing off the ball and he was often the primary width provider in the zona mista that Grande Inter used.


Other

  • I haven't talked about the goalkeeper much for obvious reasons. Jan Oblak is obviously a perfect fit here. The numerous clean sheets are, of course, in large part down to the overall structure, ability and mentality of Atletico's team, but Oblak is a fantastic player to call upon at the last. His large frame gives him dominance inside the penalty area on high balls and a great reach for shots high or into the corners; add to that his fine reflexes and ability to spread himself and it's clear why he's such a tough goalkeeper to beat.
  • Player peaks -
    • Rickie Lambert (2011 - 2014),
    • Roberto Baggio (1992 - 1995),
    • Jupp Heynckes (1971 - 1974),
    • Patrick Vieira (2000 - 2003)
    • Rainer Bonhof (1974 - 1977)
    • Jimmy Johnstone (1965 - 1968)
    • Jair da Costa (1962 - 1965)
    • Jurgen Kohler (1991 - 1994)
    • Diego Godin (2013 - 2016)
    • Cesar Azpilicueta (2013 - 2016)
    • Jan Oblak (2015 - 2018)
 

Šjor Bepo

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@Himannv did Jair ever played as a rightback? If not successfully it could be a even bigger issue considering the tactics! Also, that front two are not really Simeone like as he loved a hard working player up front which neither is.

@Isotope why o why did you pick that donkey up front, pretty good team other then that! Shame Jairzinho isnt on the other side as i reckon he would tear Jair a new one while Nedved plays with completely different style
 

harms

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What's with De Gea's peak though? I'm pretty sure that 2017/18 was his best season (by some distance).
 

Gio

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Love Simeone's tactics. Although my only quibble would be his wide players tend to be hard-working team-orientated central midfielders who can tuck in and create a boxy shape to squeeze the centre of the park, whereas Johnstone and Heynckes are more thoroughbred wide players.
 

Himannv

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@Himannv did Jair ever played as a rightback? If not successfully it could be a even bigger issue considering the tactics! Also, that front two are not really Simeone like as he loved a hard working player up front which neither is.
Well, I'd have loved to have played Alves there instead, but your injury sim took him out.

No, he's not a right back, and more suited to playing as a wingback. For me he fits in nicely into a Simeone team though. His off the ball work is excellent and he presses and harries opponents quite a bit in the games I've seen. I think he's a proper presence on the right side in a zona mista, but obviously this is a different tactic so I cannot say he's a perfect fit at RB. Do I think he can play in this tactic? Yes. I'd worry more if there's a winger there who can exploit him, but with Jinky ahead of him, who is hardworking as well, I think they'll do alright here.

Also, that front two are not really Simeone like as he loved a hard working player up front which neither is.
To me Baggio is very much a player who will be an upgrade on Felix/Greizmann (as mentioned in the OP). I see them as similar in terms of player type and I'd actually argue that he's more hard working than those two. Will post more on him tomorrow when it's not late in the night.

Regarding Lambert not being hard-working, you have to remember that this is a player who played under Pochettino, and that's a manager that does not play you if you don't work hard. I'm not going to claim that he's Uwe Seeler, he's not - Lambert is a sheep and I think Costa and Morata are better players technically. However, in terms of physical work and aerial presence, he actually fits the mould of what a Simeone striker should be like. He's a proper physical CF, and it's why Liverpool signed him as they needed that kind of presence in their team after Suarez.
 

Himannv

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Love Simeone's tactics. Although my only quibble would be his wide players tend to be hard-working team-orientated central midfielders who can tuck in and create a boxy shape to squeeze the centre of the park, whereas Johnstone and Heynckes are more thoroughbred wide players.
Yes, you'd typically see an AM type here in a Simeone setup but this is not exactly a like-for-like system, particularly in the attacking phase. My wide players would actually drift wider when in possession as I foresee some spaces there before his wingbacks fall back. In the defensive phase, however, I think Jinky is a very good fit.

This game in particular was very interesting to me when I picked him:


If you'll notice, he actually plays quite centrally here particularly in the defensive phase and starts out from more central areas as the game goes on. I think he'll be a nice fit in this tactic where he can move wider when in possession, while generally playing more centrally when out of it.

Will post more on Heynckes as well, but it'll have to be tomorrow due to the time.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Well, I'd have loved to have played Alves there instead, but your injury sim took him out.

No, he's not a right back, and more suited to playing as a wingback. For me he fits in nicely into a Simeone team though. His off the ball work is excellent and he presses and harries opponents quite a bit in the games I've seen. I think he's a proper presence on the right side in a zona mista, but obviously this is a different tactic so I cannot say he's a perfect fit at RB. Do I think he can play in this tactic? Yes. I'd worry more if there's a winger there who can exploit him, but with Jinky ahead of him, who is hardworking as well, I think they'll do alright here.
Didn't consider Bonhof there?
 

Isotope

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@Himannv did Jair ever played as a rightback? If not successfully it could be a even bigger issue considering the tactics! Also, that front two are not really Simeone like as he loved a hard working player up front which neither is.

@Isotope why o why did you pick that donkey up front, pretty good team other then that! Shame Jairzinho isnt on the other side as i reckon he would tear Jair a new one while Nedved plays with completely different style
The donkey is pretty good when he's motivated, and you need a finisher. And can drifting to sides, delivering neat crosses.

Jairzinho and Nedved are in free roles. So they can interchange positions.
 

Himannv

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Nice team @Isotope - best of luck.

My only issue is with Lukaku, I've maybe seen too much of his weaknesses at United so I'm not a big fan, particularly against Godin and Kohler. I've always felt he wasn't up to much against better teams and I don't fancy him against a low block where he'd have less space to work with. A Martinez type alongside him might have worked out better.

The Simeone tactics are meant to concede the ball in wider areas and restrict heavily centrally so the likes of Jairzinho and Nedved don't have as many opportunities to work centrally and are a bit too far from goal. As such their best bet is what most of Atletico's opponents resort to - long distance strikes or pinging the ball in from wide and hope their striker can make something of it. Lukaku is alright in the air, but not against the likes of Godin and Kohler.
 

Himannv

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Love Simeone's tactics. Although my only quibble would be his wide players tend to be hard-working team-orientated central midfielders who can tuck in and create a boxy shape to squeeze the centre of the park, whereas Johnstone and Heynckes are more thoroughbred wide players.
Since I'm still up, I'll do Heynckes as well although it'll be a shorter post than planned. I think he's a very versatile player on the whole from the games I've seen of him. He's good as a pure winger, but also great when playing more centrally. He's a great video of him playing comparatively centrally and playing very well:


I felt both Jinky and Heynckes were nice fits in terms of players who were fine playing a more tucked in central role in the defensive phase but can play either centrally or move wider in the attacking phase. I'd have two arrows ideally in front of them both indicating the direction of their movement but I didn't think of doing arrows at all when I drew the thing.
 

Isotope

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I'm surprised this one isn't a landslide to you @Himannv :lol: . On the next round, you'll have Eusebio instead of Lambert.

Sincerely hope you win this one. I have so many players to upgrade, and seems like too many research need to be done later on this draft.
 

Himannv

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I'm surprised this one isn't a landslide to you @Himannv :lol: . On the next round, you'll have Eusebio instead of Lambert.

Sincerely hope you win this one. I have so many players to upgrade, and seems like too many research need to be done later on this draft.
Cheers mate. I haven't actually voted yet so haven't seen the score - I find it's better to not know.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Jair at RB is an absolute blunder, but am letting it pass due to the overall quality of the team. Himannv is lucky to win my vote here despite Nedved and Irwin's presence.