Our Attack - Is it good enough?

[MU655]

It's obvious we need a right winger but are our other players doing enough?

We are actually the most clinical finishers in the league with the biggest disparity between goals and xG (50 goals and 42.08 xG). However, this is taking account of the whole team.

Martial and Greenwood tend to be struggling to meet their xG.

Rashford - 8 goals - 7.4 xG [110%] (tends to score harder chances and misses easier chances.)
Cavani - 6 goals - 6.29 xG [95%]
Martial - 4 goals - 6.27 xG [64%]
Greenwood - 1 goal - 2.62 xG [38%]

There seems to be a tendency to point fingers at other areas of the pitch, but is it our forwards that are creating the biggest issues in our creativity?

xA and (xA per 90) - Ranked by xA per 90 - Liverpool stats from 19/20 - xA if 90 minutes played for 38 games.

Attack
Mahrez - 4.29 (0.3474) - 13.20
Foden - 3.50 (0.3069) - 11.66
Salah - 8.73 (0.2709) - 10.29
Sterling - 4.27 (0.2367) - 8.99
Mane - 7.24 (0.2358) - 8.96
Firmino - 7.35 (0.2178) - 8.28
Torres - 1.53 (0.1908) - 7.25
Cavani - 1.56 (0.1890) - 7.18 - Fewer Minutes in Comparison
Martial - 2.52 (0.1809) - 6.87
Jesus - 1.46 (0.1323) - 5.03
Greenwood - 1.20 (0.1098) - 4.17
Rashford - 2.1 (0.1017) - 3.86

Our forwards seem way off the pace in creating good chances with the best teams. We have got away with it by being pretty clinical, but I don't think this is sustainable.

Lack of movement, lack of teamwork between the front players (they barely pass to each other), bad decision making, holding onto the ball too long etc. all seem major issues when I watch us.

 

[charlenefan]

Cavani's obviously a stop gap so need a number 9
Greenwood is our best right sided attacker and general consensus is its not his best position either so need a winger

So no it's not good enough, at all

 

[M Bison]

No it’s not good enough, and it’s hurting us.

Unless Bruno produces a piece of magic, we struggle.

Rashford just hasn’t got going this season and Greenwood hasn’t hit the highs from last season. I’ve never been a fan of Martial either.

So that’s 3 of our attacking players who have had poor seasons, we desperately need a Grealish imo, he’d make a huge difference to our attacking play.

Id also like to see Amad get a run, today would have been ideal for it, with Greenwood playing centrally (as subs) as Cavani couldn’t get in the game.

 

[FattyFooty]

No.

And it's obvious at this point.

It's not that Rashford, Martial and Greenwood is that bad. It's just that they aren't that good either. Or at least United good.

Noone is more popular than youth team players, but we might put a bit too much belive in making one day a Rashford-Greenwood combo up top. It's very unlikely that one local lad can make it even harder with two.

The question is what are we as a club trying to achieve? If it's top 4. Then maybe, if we are going for titles we need a bit more consistency up there.

 

[Coops73]

Er...no.

I haven’t got a fecking scooby as to what’s happened with Rashford, he has been so poor and frustrating to watch of late , he’s playing that way that players play when they think they’re undroppable, it seems his form has dropped off a cliff since his political/charitable involvements, which is admirable, let’s face it we all want to see these guys offering and influencing more good in society despite their young age but he’s going to have to get his head around both commitments if that’s what he wants to do because let’s be honest they kind of go hand in hand.

Martial, for me, has always been a bit meh, he doesn’t work hard enough when he’s out of form and personally I think we should give Greenwood a start over Martial and that’s only because Rashford is Gashford on the right.

Thank feck for Bruno who let’s face it hasn’t been pulling any trees up of late but continues to get us out of a hole, without him and his attitude we’d be struggling to actually get into Europe but we can’t rely on him all the time.

Cavani, though poor today doesn’t stop and, as it’s been said a thousand times, his movement has been exceptional, he’ll always be there or thereabouts for a goal.

feck knows how this season will end but I fear it won’t end very well if the likes of Rashford and Martial don’t sort their shit out.

 

[Judas]

We need a RW, a striker, and a LW as competition for Rashford. Martial has no real place in this squad for me.

 

[OleBoiii]

Good enough for what? Winning the PL or CL? Absolutely not. Consistently finishing top 4? Just about good enough, but that's only because of Bruno.

 

[Devil may care]

It's a team sport, the front 4 are so disconnected from the rest of the team without Pogba, buying a bunch of new forwards isn't the answer imo, our transition from defence to attack is too slow because we only have one midfielder that has the passing game to get the ball into the attack quickly and precisely enough for our forwards to do anything before the opposition regains their defensive shape.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

In order to consistently win matches and produce wave after wave of attack, a team needs consistent and reliable players in the front 6 and 2 Full back positions of players who can pass and move and consistently link up with each other without giving it away. For eg You look at the City side the only player who gives the ball away cheaply is Sterling and all others are well equipped to play quick passes and build attacking moves.

Similarly to Madrid side with Ronaldo that won 4 champions league, Barca with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Co. Utd of old had a patchy Rooney who would on his bad days give the ball away except that all players were comfortable on the ball (Scholes, Carrick, Ronaldo, Ruud, Saha, Neville, Evra, Berba, Tevez etc).

You look at this Side Cavani, Bruno, Rashford, Fred and AWB all have the tendency to give the ball away needlessly which breaks up momentum and you can't keep the pressure up on the teams. The only players who are capable of keeping the right pass and move it on are Pogba, Bruno (On his best days), Greenwood and Shaw and occasionally Martial.

This is the reason why we fail to create chances and therefore hardly run away with matches. As we don't consistently produce high quality passing and link up play as one of these players will ruin a pass or play it behind or have a poor touch which will break momentum and the defending team have a breather.

We are a team of moments, we have excellent finishers thus despite creating few chances or half chances we put them away. This is also the reason why we don't run away with matches like City or any good sides. That's because you need to consistently play good football for a half to create several chances, we will keep the ball and knock it about but when it comes to the final 20 yards, poor passes, touches of all those players mentioned above results in losing possession and then it starts again from DDG.

The solution to this is signing players and having maximum players in those 8 positions who are comfortable on the ball and provide and link up better. Grealish for example is the perfect player to solve this issue.

 

[Bobcat]

Right now? Not even close.

I still think Rashford and particularly Greenwood will come good, but Martial is just a lost cause at this point

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

No. Without Bruno I dread to think where we would be.

 

[kopviolator]

We've scored the most goals in the league, so there's that

 

[Leftback99]

At the end of last season I was confident they would kick on but they've all gone backwards.
- Cavani's impact is over stated
- Rashford is more inconsistent than ever
- I don't know what's happened to Martial
- The only positive is Greenwood's improvement recently but he's been poor for most of the season

 

[dal]

Rashford is obviously good enough.

Greenwood is goood enough his children will shoot up soon. With him you expect it to be above 1.

The problem is we need a striker and another creative player.

Ole has not brought a player in the front three yet. A prime age attacker.

He’s brought defenders and midfielders.
Ideally a Haaland and a Grealish and we will absolutely fly.

VDB seems a panic buy. We need two world class in the front three and sell Martial and Pogba, they are just not United players, they get carried for most of the games they play.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Nah I think only Greenwood will have a table at the top of the game out of our current attackers.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It's a team sport, the front 4 are so disconnected from the rest of the team without Pogba, buying a bunch of new forwards isn't the answer imo, our transition from defence to attack is too slow because we only have one midfielder that has the passing game to get the ball into the attack quickly and precisely enough for our forwards to do anything before the opposition regains their defensive shape.

This Is also true.

 

[Drainy]

Ole planned to add in Sancho or Grealish because he knows weak we are on the creative side.. the club let him down in the summer, but he probably didn't expect our efficiency in front of goal to drop by so much this year.

 

[Buster15]

It's obvious we need a right winger but are our other players doing enough?

We are actually the most clinical finishers in the league with the biggest disparity between goals and xG (50 goals and 42.08 xG). However, this is taking account of the whole team.

Martial and Greenwood tend to be struggling to meet their xG.

Rashford - 8 goals - 7.4 xG [110%] (tends to score harder chances and misses easier chances.)
Cavani - 6 goals - 6.29 xG [95%]
Martial - 4 goals - 6.27 xG [64%]
Greenwood - 1 goal - 2.62 xG [38%]

There seems to be a tendency to point fingers at other areas of the pitch, but is it our forwards that are creating the biggest issues in our creativity?

xA and (xA per 90) - Ranked by xA per 90 - Liverpool stats from 19/20 - xA if 90 minutes played for 38 games.

Attack
Mahrez - 4.29 (0.3474) - 13.20
Foden - 3.50 (0.3069) - 11.66
Salah - 8.73 (0.2709) - 10.29
Sterling - 4.27 (0.2367) - 8.99
Mane - 7.24 (0.2358) - 8.96
Firmino - 7.35 (0.2178) - 8.28
Torres - 1.53 (0.1908) - 7.25
Cavani - 1.56 (0.1890) - 7.18 - Fewer Minutes in Comparison
Martial - 2.52 (0.1809) - 6.87
Jesus - 1.46 (0.1323) - 5.03
Greenwood - 1.20 (0.1098) - 4.17
Rashford - 2.1 (0.1017) - 3.86

Our forwards seem way off the pace in creating good chances with the best teams. We have got away with it by being pretty clinical, but I don't think this is sustainable.

Lack of movement, lack of teamwork between the front players (they barely pass to each other), bad decision making, holding onto the ball too long etc. all seem major issues when I watch us.

So who are City forwards. You don't have to be a forward to score lots of goals. Remember Frank Lampard.
It is all down to coaching.

 

[gerdm07]

Nah I think only Greenwood will have a table at the top of the game out of our current attackers.

I agree. Greenwood is so silky with the ball and you can't teach that. More importantly his moves have real purpose which is something you can't always say about Rashford. He can be silky and make nice moves but there isn't always a benefit.

I hope Greenwood makes it as our striker in the near future.

I'm done with Martial and I don't think Ole should start him anymore.

 

[Foxbatt]

Forget about the attack. Our defense and our midfield is not good enough either.

 

[MadDogg]

Martial, Rashford and Greenwood are good enough on their day. The problem is that 'their day' hasn't happened this season.

All of them have been poor (although Rashford has still managed to get a decent amount of goals and assists), and the longer it goes on the more it looks like we need to rip the entire thing up and start again. What's worse is that when they aren't playing well all three tend to drift out of the game and not get involved. We're now almost two thirds of the way into the season and Martial hasn't kicked into form, Rashford has only had the occasional good match and Greenwood has just started to look better recently. Greenwood is so young it's somewhat expected (although I would still like to see him get more involved when he's not playing well), but the other two need to get their act together.

Cavani's movement in the box is good and he tries to press the opponent, but otherwise he's largely anonymous too.

 

[Colin Clarke]

I think we are all missing the point. It's our back four that are the main problem. We concede far too many goals that are actually easily defendable. Today we lost a goal to WBA because their player bullied Lindelof and won. That player should have had a hat-trick and bullied Maguire out of it for one chance. Because our CBs are so poor our full backs tuck in and we also played Fred and McTominay, two defensive midfielders, restricting our forward play and slowing the game down. Are Martial, Rashford, Cavani or Greenwood good enough? No, especially if the rest are too slow to get the ball forward to them. Rashford and Greenwood would be the best players in England if they played for Leicester, that how poorly we are moving the ball. If teams sit back against our front men we struggle because we don't hit quickly enough when these teams do come out. Are our front men good enough? At the moment NO, but who would be with our average back four and slow movement of the ball

 

[Ekeke]

Yes but only because of Fernandes and his ability to make something happen. If we had a normal player there we'd be where we were in the first half of last season

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Having few games of scoring one goal only is normal especially against bus parking. United 08/09, Liverpool last season, Real Madrid last season and even Man city this season had good numbers of 1-0 victories and the Sheffield United game was their recent 1-0 victory. We would be up there toe to toe with the current man city in the league now if we have Vidic/Rio or Pallister/Bruce. The goals we conceded are just ridiculous which something aren’t going to happen if we have top centre backs.

Although, I’m not saying our attacks are world class and I think it’s area we can improve and there are players available for the improvement but our defense is something we need to prioritise first. Goals win you games, defense win you the league.

 

[bosnian_red]

Finishing will generally even itself out, so I wouldn't be so concerned about Martial and Greenwood being below their xG as much as the general xG not being high enough. Both Martial and Greenwood prior to this season were at a crazy high overperformance. Was never going to last.

But generally no our attack is still lacking. Has some excellent individuals, but is lacking because it's overly dependent on just the one side. We never have a right winger, and none of our wide players are creative types but they're all scoring/forward types. We need a creator like Sancho on the right wing to counter Rashford on the left. We're not far off, but definitely the right wing needs to be addressed (with Diallo then being 2nd choice), and then we have to rotate Cavani and Greenwood for the striker position, with Rashford and Martial rotating on the left.

The deeper midfielders also need sorting out. Pogba if we keep him would be great, but needs to be paired with a world class defensive mid like Ndidi to hold that. Neither Fred or McTominay are at a high enough level to support 2 more creative attacking mids like Bruno/Pogba (and also neither are good enough at what they do to be worth using over players like Bruno or Pogba). Excellent squad players. Not quite enough to be instant starters for a top side.

Center back of course is also an issue. Between them 2 and the goalkeeper, there's always someone making some mistake and being out-muscled or out-paced. There's a lot of potential in the side, but we definitely need to address first the right wing to complete our front 4 (and to rotate our 2 sets of 3 attackers properly), and then the centerback situation 2nd, and then lastly whatever is going on in midfield that we can never seem to sort out and find a balance with.

A lot of people will say we're top scorers, that's not the issue... but that's just wrong IMO and way too reactive to a recent 9-0 result. The amount of times this season we've scored 0 or 1 in a game is way too high, but not only just actual goals, our xG isn't quite good enough either. The way we attack isn't varied up enough, nor is it balanced at all. We balance out our attack by having a good player in their natural positions every game, and we'll see a much more consistent attacking performance IMO. Constantly chopping and changing and playing players out of position never helps. Our defense is also an issue, but sorting out the right wing (with the perfect player being available for it this summer) would be the most logical transfer we could make this summer and be a huge step forward.

 

[TheNewEra]

No and it was obvious all season, Martial isn't good enough and Rashford needs to play in his natural position.

Martial needs to be sold, liquidate the team that isn't required like Mata who the fans love but he's just not playing so he shouldn't stay.

Martial, Mata, James if possible need to go.

Someone like Sancho needs to come in, Diallo will be competing for places, Greenwood will too and if you can get a top CF then get one.

United still need a CDM, CB.

Biggest issue is if Pogba goes also replacing him.

 

[croadyman]

No and it was obvious all season, Martial isn't good enough and Rashford needs to play in his natural position.

Martial needs to be sold, liquidate the team that isn't required like Mata who the fans love but he's just not playing so he shouldn't stay.

Martial, Mata, James if possible need to go.

Someone like Sancho needs to come in, Diallo will be competing for places, Greenwood will too and if you can get a top CF then get one.

United still need a CDM, CB.

Biggest issue is if Pogba goes also replacing him.

Would still prioritise the bottom two positions over CF because think Eddy is capable of giving us another season, that's if he actually still wants to of course, in regards to RW would like Amad to get an opportunity but if there is an opportunity to get Sancho for reasonable fee then we should. The Pogba situation still looks up in the air due to how badly any potential suitors finances will be affected by COVID.

 

[Volumiza]

It's a team sport, the front 4 are so disconnected from the rest of the team without Pogba, buying a bunch of new forwards isn't the answer imo, our transition from defence to attack is too slow because we only have one midfielder that has the passing game to get the ball into the attack quickly and precisely enough for our forwards to do anything before the opposition regains their defensive shape.

So you actually think Martial and Rashford are good enough?

 

[izec]

They play like they never played before. Coaching. Ole's job is to improve the team and the players individually, which doesn't happen. It is just random who gets better and who regresses. No surprise our attackers suffer the most in that regard

 

[Judas]

They play like they never played before. Coaching. Ole's job is to improve the team and the players individually, which doesn't happen. It is just random who gets better and who regresses. No surprise our attackers suffer the most in that regard

Yep, there's a couple of players who you can see genuine chemistry between, Shaw and Rashford, and Ole constantly splits them up to try and make Martial happen (its not going to happen). During lockdown we seemed to have a bit of cohesion and chemistry going, but that died a death. There's a desperation to be the hero again, no sense of calm.

We don't play like a team, its that simple.

 

[Bobcat]

At the end of last season I was confident they would kick on but they've all gone backwards.
- Cavani's impact is over stated
- Rashford is more inconsistent than ever
- I don't know what's happened to Martial
- The only positive is Greenwood's improvement recently but he's been poor for most of the season

Agreed. If MMM had been even 75% of what they were post lockdown we would have been 10 points better off at this stage. Minimum

Greenwood is fair enough. Hes a teenager and had a bit of a second season syndrome. Rashford needs to pull his head from his arse and stop trying to play like Ronaldo. I think he will come good as well, but some time on the bench would do him good imo.

Martal should just be sold. Does not have the mentality to make it at a top club

 

[gajender]

Yep, there's a couple of players who you can see genuine chemistry between, Shaw and Rashford, and Ole constantly splits them up to try and make Martial happen (its not going to happen). During lockdown we seemed to have a bit of cohesion and chemistry going, but that died a death. There's a desperation to be the hero again, no sense of calm.

We don't play like a team, its that simple.

You must be watching different games to actually believe that, there is not much of a Chemistry between Shaw and Rashford or for that matter between any of our players .
I have Seen Rashford literally ignore Shaw on Overlap but by virtue of playing together on the same side they would have certain connection but there is nothing evolved or out of ordinary .

 

[Judas]

You must be watching different games to actually believe that, there is not much of a Chemistry between Shaw and Rashford or for that matter between any of our players .
I have Seen Rashford literally ignore Shaw on Overlap but by virtue of playing together on the same side they would have certain connection but there is nothing evolved or out of ordinary .

I think their linkup play has improved drastically, they still miss passes to each other all the time, but its one of the few points in the team where there's a bit of linkup play that works. Maybe it seems better to me now after having to suffer through Shaw and Martial together.

 

[gajender]

I think their linkup play has improved drastically, they still miss passes to each other all the time, but its one of the few points in the team where there's a bit of linkup play that works. Maybe it seems better to me now after having to suffer through Shaw and Martial together.

Agreed it's better than Martial and Shaw , ideally we show the door to Martial and bring Haaland along with Grealish to finally have attack worthy of our great Club.

 

[Banana Republic]

I can see Cavani being fed up with this lot and not agreeing to the extension on his one year contract.
I’m also worried Bruno will become increasingly disillusioned with the way things are going and be tempted away to another team, with a big juicy contract and the prospect of actually winning something.
Where would we be then?

Martial is spent and there doesn’t seem to be any way back for him now.
Rashford is proving to be nothing like the player fans thought he might be. There’s no improvement going to happen there, over what we’ve seen before.
Quote all the xG and xA bollocks you like, you can see it with your own eyes, week in, week out and this has been evident for a very long time now, even when those lads had a purple patch and were banging in goals late last season.

 

[ghaliboy]

Is it paid too much is a better question.

 

[RUCK4444]

Agreed it's better than Martial and Shaw , ideally we show the door to Martial and bring Haaland along with Grealish to finally have attack worthy of our great Club.

This is what needs to happen. With a CB and a DM.

We will have built a very good side at that point. Most fans here seem to want Ole out before we finish the project though.

 

[villain]

The problem is the midfield. Fred and McTominay are only capable of making short passes.

Our most dangerous build up came when Maguire was charging towards the opponents box and creating chances - why? Because his presence meant that WBA couldn't just double up on Martial & Shaw, that creates space for Shaw to run in behind or Martial to cut in and that's exactly how we got our goal. We see that from Pogba when he's in the side, we don't see it from Fred because he's average at best - he just tries really hard & runs a lot.

I see Rashford & Cavani making runs all the time - but neither Fred or McTominay can play a cross-field pass to find them so they don't even attempt to do it, they'll just pass sideways and the opponent continues to maintain their shape.
Then what happens is Bruno drops deep to collect the ball, and will at least attempt to play more complex passes - he's not the best at it, but you can see what he's attempting to do, but by doing this our most creative player is further away from the most dangerous area and the opponent can squeeze the space between their defence and midfield because no one is in the pocket, making it even harder to create chances or for our forwards to get in behind.

Then when the ball comes out to Martial on the left, of course he's going to struggle because at that point the opponent knows that his main options are to play a 1-2 with Shaw, or cut inside, so they can put afford to put 3/4 players there because Fred isn't capable of playing a 1-2 and running in behind the defence like Pogba does when he plays - whoever is marking Fred knows he's not capable of a defence splitting pass so he will turn his attention to Martial instead - now you have the guy marking Martial, the guy marking Shaw, the right-sided CB and one of their midfielders keeping two of our players at bay.
McTominay isn't as bad, you can see him, AWB & Rashford/Greenwood being able to play triangles amongst themselves.

We need a DM, and if Pogba leaves we need a deep lying playmaker.

 

[Pughnichi]

Currently, Rashford and Martial should compete against each other and rotated ONLY on the left. Neither are the striker we crave. Greenwood should be back up to Cavani and we desperately need the right side addressed. Amad should be given a chance. Not because he’s the second coming but because at least we then have a balance to the team on match day.

Moving forward, Greenwood/Amad could be good enough centrally and on the right so reasonable squad options would be needed.

Lots of posts about Grealish and I’d love him here. He would come and cause problems given he also plays from the left. He would likely see Martial moved on (which I’d be comfortable with) Rashford however would then be playing second fiddle...which financially at least seems silly because on form he can be brilliant. More so when the right needs addressing.

Could Grealish mature and develop into a Scholes esque player that dominates the middle with frighteningly good technical ability. But that then means we would also need a far better defensive midfielder than what’s already on offer.

simply put. Ole has done a great job ridding the squad of players that weren’t good enough but there’s still some way to go yet. It’s bizarre because when on form what we’ve got is almost good enough to compete.

 

[Devil may care]

So you actually think Martial and Rashford are good enough?

Rashford has 16 goals and 8 assists this season, his game still needs consistency and maturity but he's still young. Martial is running out of time though, he wilts under pressure, he was good last season but as soon as Cavani came in he folded rather than upping his game to meet the challenge. The thing is most here just want Haaland but I think they'd find just as much frustration in games like yesterday as we don't craft enough openings, we didn't create a single chance for Cavani yesterday and Haaland is in the same mold, he's not an Aguero or Suarez type #9, he needs supply to be effective. Our biggest issue is the disconnect between defence and attack, if Pogba isn't playing the ball takes 3 passes to go anywhere from our midfield which makes it very difficult to pull a well organised team out of shape, any forward line will struggle with a midfield like ours behind them.