Our attack: the final missing piece

[AXVnee7]

Our attack on paper actually has enough quality. The main problems are our two widemen who don't provide enough goals. This season I would expect both Martial and Mkhitaryan to provide at least 15 goals in the league. Add this to around 20 goals or so from Lukaku and it suddenly looks much better from the main 3. The problem with Ibra last season (although he was a prolific scorer) was that he was the sole main attacking focus of our offensive play. This meant that we had to constantly rely on him to deliver. If Ibra performed poorly, chances are we wouldn't have won the game. It might also help explain why he did score so many goals despite not having the best conversion rate.

Martial has looked impressive in pre-season and I think he could very well deliver this season. Micky doesn't excel as a wide man IMO and is better off playing centrally where he has more space and 360 degrees to maneuver into. However I think we could do with another winger. Someone who is more your archetypal winger than an inside forward. The reason for this is not actually the winger himself, as we already have players capable of whipping in devastating crosses in Rashford and Micky- but actually for our fullbacks. Having someone strecthing the defense to the sideline, will in turn generate more space for a full back to run into and give him more time to send in a composed and meaningful cross. Too often we have played poor crosses, or not got enough bodies in the box to get on the end of them.

This is where our problems come from. A lack of a variety in attack, and this is shown in the lack of sources of goals (and assists). We also need to establish a set piece specialist. Although I'm aware Zlatan delivered arguably when it mattered most, for the most part his free-kicks were terrible and 9/10 would just go straight into the wall. We have got to improve our direct free kicks and test the keeper more. We have now also one of the tallest and physically capable teams in the league, but there's no point if we can't consistently deliver strong crosses as no one will get on the end of them. So as much as our problems last season were down to poor finishing, we still have to improve on supplying and creating goals too. All in all, I see an attack that is capable, but it has to deliver. Football is played on the pitch, not on paper.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

An attack of:

Rashford----Lukaku----Perisic
​

With Pogba and Herrera supporting and the likes of Mkhi, Pereira, Martial and Mata interchanging should be good. We need Perisic though (or an alternative). If we were to also get a Griezmann or similar next summer then we'd probably have a chance at the league too.

 

[MeUnited]

Zlatan's job was to score. Lukaku's job will be to score, and on last season's evidence he is better at it. Other players are in the squad to move the ball quickly and create chances. Our striker is there to make the runs, get into the dangerous positions, and finish the chances.

It must also be the first time I've seen anyone say Zlatan actually sped our play up. He slowed it down if anything.

Yeah, it might be the first time you've heard anyone say it because most people have no clue about football. Just because a player isn't quick, he can still move the ball quickly. LVG's football was painfully slow, not because we had slow players, but because we moved the ball slowly. When someone is confident enough to move the ball of in one or two touches the defender has less time to get themselves in a comfortable position with relation to where the ball + the opponents are. I'm sorry if I'm not enamoured with the idea of watching Lukaku take one or two touches to get the ball under control, let alone release a good pass.

 

[11101]

Yeah, it might be the first time you've heard anyone say it because most people have no clue about football. Just because a player isn't quick, he can still move the ball quickly. LVG's football was painfully slow, not because we had slow players, but because we moved the ball slowly. When someone is confident enough to move the ball of in one or two touches the defender has less time to get themselves in a comfortable position with relation to where the ball + the opponents are. I'm sorry if I'm not enamoured with the idea of watching Lukaku take one or two touches to get the ball under control, let alone release a good pass.

So you're the expert now I understand.

Zlatan almost always took the ball with his back to the defender. Fine for a layoff to a nearby player but a turn and another touch away from releasing a quick ball into a dangerous area himself. Lukaku plays facing goal much more.

 

[Rozay]

We need to show the same sort of faith shown in Rashford with Martial. If we're not going into the market, then we need to really back the one we have.

 

[rpg]

We need to show the same sort of faith shown in Rashford with Martial. If we're not going into the market, then we need to really back the one we have.

Hmm, either we go into market because rashford/martial not good enough or we don't go into market because they are good enough.

 

[Ødegaard]

So we got the best keeper in the league, there's no question about that. No team has a better backup keeper either. Our defense is probably 3rd best, but that's mainly because of the LB position being so weak. We all know that Mourinho being in charge is like having an extra defender, so we're not that far behind Chelsea and Tottenham on paper. As for our midfield, the addition of Matic probably gives us the best midfield-three in the league. Matic, Herrera and Pogba make an incredibly well-balanced and skilled trio. So far, so good. But then there's the attack...

The attack has been our weakest area post-Fergie and last season was no exception, even with Zlatan in charge. The question then becomes: are our current attackers good enough? And if they aren't, then perhaps our defense, midfield, and general team-balance is good enough to make up for lack of world class goalscorers? Or is this an area of the field that can't be compromised whatsoever?

No.
They have the potential to be, but that's all.
Lukaku is good enough to lead the line alone, the rest all need to step up their game.

The midfield and defense can dominate all they want, it won't help if our attackers refuse to put the ball in the back of the net.

 

[TwoSheds]

Even if you believe Lukaku won't help us score more goals, surely you can look at our wings and say we had 3 inexperienced players there, along with a class player who struggled to settle, and think they should all improve individually? Plus, as long as we avoid a horror start again they should all get a couple more goals each over the season even if they just maintain their current levels. We might not have the best attack in the world, but we have a better one than at the start of last season.

 

[Rozay]

Hmm, either we go into market because rashford/martial not good enough or we don't go into market because they are good enough.

Well of course. But the latter scenario involves properly backing one.

 

[Redguern]

Carrick played all of five minutes last season.

Well, 2069 minutes in the Premier League and the Europa League, to be precise.

Rooney was more productive than Mkhitaryan last season, and he wasn't good enough either.

We won the Europa League for the first time and which also got us into the Champions League. Mkhi scored 6 goals in that comp to Rooney's 2, including one in the final and two in the quarters... He was also consistently rated more highly than Wazza both on the Caf and elsewhere...

The problem is Jose imo as I said earlier. He just cant build a systematically strong attacking team with a clear game plan. He relies too much on the individuality of some star players

Did you ever watch Jose's Porto team or his first Chelsea team? They were literally the diametric opposite of what you state here...

Some of the quality of points raised on here needs improving

 

[Redguern]

Anyway, to return to the OP, I think that the combination of :

Lukaku - more productive and direct than Zlatan, and also making more space for others
Pogba and Herrera - being freed up by Matic and in Pog's case getting more dead ball delivery chances without Zlatan
Mkhi, Martial, Rashford having better seasons, having had time to settle, mature etc.

...means that we have most of the missing pieces required to be in place to mount a legitimate title challenge.

Plus Jose and his team have been in place a year too now.

Adding Perisic to the mix plus a good left back (or Shaw coming back strong) would just be the icing on the cake.

I am optimistic about this season

 

[notcool]

No, mate. Carrick played literally five (the whole number in between four and six and which is the square root of twenty-five) minutes last season. I went through every match report from last season and painstakingly counted up the minutes Carrick was given in each one. It's true facts: that is, facts which are not false.

 

[ghagua]

We need 2 wingers. None of our wide players are proper wingers. All of them are better when they play centrally. Martial can be useful, but he only does it once in a while.

 

[red4ever 79]

Sanchez. We would go from potential top 6 to title contenders

 

[NoLogo]

We need 2 wingers. None of our wide players are proper wingers. All of them are better when they play centrally. Martial can be useful, but he only does it once in a while.

Who exactly is a proper winger these days? It's all just inside forwards who cut inside these days. If we are missing width we need to improve our FBs and we desperately do imo. I hope Shaw can get back to his old strength as soon as possible, we need him in good form the same goes for Valencia, who while being our best FB last season really needs to improve his final passing/crossing.

 

[mitchmouse]

So we got the best keeper in the league, there's no question about that. No team has a better backup keeper either. Our defense is probably 3rd best, but that's mainly because of the LB position being so weak. We all know that Mourinho being in charge is like having an extra defender, so we're not that far behind Chelsea and Tottenham on paper. As for our midfield, the addition of Matic probably gives us the best midfield-three in the league. Matic, Herrera and Pogba make an incredibly well-balanced and skilled trio. So far, so good. But then there's the attack...

The attack has been our weakest area post-Fergie and last season was no exception, even with Zlatan in charge. The question then becomes: are our current attackers good enough? And if they aren't, then perhaps our defense, midfield, and general team-balance is good enough to make up for lack of world class goalscorers? Or is this an area of the field that can't be compromised whatsoever?

I am worried about where goals are coming from too but am not convinced your midfield three has any goals in it either...

 

[notcool]

We need 2 wingers. None of our wide players are proper wingers. All of them are better when they play centrally. Martial can be useful, but he only does it once in a while.

Does it matter? Hazard isn't a proper winger and neither is Messi. Maybe us not having proper wingers means that there is a plan for us not to have them and not that we are being mismanaged and are a few short.

 

[NoLogo]

We need to show the same sort of faith shown in Rashford with Martial. If we're not going into the market, then we need to really back the one we have.

Good point. We need to start believing in our talented players again and not just bench them after a couple of bad games every time. I know a lot of people seem to lack the patience these days to see a team of great talent grow up into a great team but remember how Fergie did it time and time again? I'm not saying we need to play everyone from our academy by tomorrow but give those special talents that we have the chance and trust they need to fulfill their potential, especially if it's in positions where our established players aren't all that great to begin with.

 

[ghagua]

Who exactly is a proper winger these days? It's all just inside forwards who cut inside these days. If we are missing width we need to improve our FBs and we desperately do imo. I hope Shaw can get back to his old strength as soon as possible, we need him in good form the same goes for Valencia, who while being our best FB last season really needs to improve his final passing/crossing.

Does it matter? Hazard isn't a proper winger and neither is Messi. Maybe us not having proper wingers means that there is a plan for us not to have them and not that we are being mismanaged and are a few short.

I will reword it if it makes you happy. We need 2 wide players who produce much more than what we are currently getting.

 

[Sepukku]

I would worry about our fullbacks not the attack. I have never seen a great team without at least one wold class fullback and we lack those for a long time now. Nor do i see any intention to buy one, not that there are many available out there...

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think we are pretty fine with our front 6

Matic
Herrera Pogba
Rashford/Mata Lukaku Martial/Mkhitaryan

​

Mata and Mkhitaryan for more control, Rashford and Martial for more pace.

​

 

[Shark]

I think we are pretty fine with our front 6

Matic
Herrera Pogba
Rashford/Mata Lukaku Martial/Mkhitaryan

​

Mata and Mkhitaryan for more control, Rashford and Martial for more pace.

​

Except we're not really fine if said players don't improve their finishing/consistency.

 

[Siorac]

How many did Herrera and Pogba play? What about Fellaini? It was not my impression that Carrick was a first team player last season, nor that he was even first choice when we played 4-3-3.

They played a lot more than Carrick, sure. Even Fellaini.

The question is not how much Matic will play but how often will we play with a three-man midfield. Because just having Matic will not "free" Pogba if he's still part of a two behind a number 10.

 

[Redguern]

No, mate. Carrick played literally five (the whole number in between four and six and which is the square root of twenty-five) minutes last season. I went through every match report from last season and painstakingly counted up the minutes Carrick was given in each one. It's true facts: that is, facts which are not false.

Well, 2069 minutes in the Premier League and the Europa League, to be precise.

No white text ? @Siorac already pointed out how wrong you were (literally 2,064 minutes wrong)

 

[notcool]

The question is not how much Matic will play but how often will we play with a three-man midfield. Because just having Matic will not "free" Pogba if he's still part of a two behind a number 10.

Yes but we're more likely to play 4-3-3 now because Matic can play the majority of the games and Carrick couldn't last season. I actually think we'll be playing 4-2-3-1 a lot since Mourinho seems to like to match up against the opposition's midfield.

No white text ? @Siorac already pointed out how wrong you were (literally 2,064 minutes wrong)

Haven't you ever seen something so wrong that it is actually right? Don't fight it, child. This was just meant to be.

 

[Dave46]

Who exactly is a proper winger these days? It's all just inside forwards who cut inside these days. If we are missing width we need to improve our FBs and we desperately do imo. I hope Shaw can get back to his old strength as soon as possible, we need him in good form the same goes for Valencia, who while being our best FB last season really needs to improve his final passing/crossing.

Thank you. This proper winger deal is straight out of the 70s.

 

[covlee junior]

4231 is done and 343 with one ball playing defender is the shit now. this formation is solid in defence because of 2 full back that always provide wide and help defense, and 3 attacker have freedom to roaming forward without losing width. most important position for this formation is 2 CM and full back. but we only have luke shaw here feck our life...

 

[Dave46]

4231 is done and 343 with one ball playing defender is the shit now. this formation is solid in defence because of 2 full back that always provide wide and help defense, and 3 attacker have freedom to roaming forward without losing width. most important position for this formation is 2 CM and full back. but we only have luke shaw here feck our life...

Knowing Jose, he will play half of the games at 4-2-3-1.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

Mkhitaryan has shown nothing since joining United. I won't get my hopes up about him based on what people tell me he did in Germany. I have about as much faith in him to deliver as I do Shaw. Which is not to say that either is untalented... but, you know...

Miki carried us in the Europa Cup last season with his goals. He is an intelligent player, I would say he is more of a number 10 than a wide player, but he can still do a job.

Considering we've already spent £140 million, I'd be surprised if we had £100+ million needed for a marquee player.

Maybe next season.

Remember the sales of Depay, Schneiderlin and Bastian resulted in almost 50m. We definitely have money for a Marquee signing.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Our failings in attack started in MF IMO, so hopefully better balance and more options there will mean better service to our forward players.

Agree wholeheartedly. We missed a ton of chances last season but I think we'd have had even more opportunities to miss with the additions now. Not just Matic but Lindelof too. As Jose mentioned he is good with and used to carrying the ball. It'll be handy in tight matches.

Sanchez. We would go from potential top 6 to title contenders

Honestly, Alexis would throw us into the mix for dark horse UCL as well. More confident of that statement than with Griezman.

 

[lococol]

People are saying Perisic is the next logical signing, which I think is a good transfer but not if Martial goes in the opposite direction (as is being reported). We need Martial as well as a left winger that can cross the ball in. Winning the league is about having options. What happens if Perisic gets smashed in a PL challenge and is out for months (very possible). As for Sanchez, apparently he has his heart set on Man City so I think this is not going to happen.

 

[Ikon]

Remember the sales of Depay, Schneiderlin and Bastian resulted in almost 50m. We definitely have money for a Marquee signing.

Not to even mention how the wage bill has been trimmed, Bastian was on £200pw, Rooney £250pw and Ibrahimovich £360pw, along Depay and Schneiderlin thats about one Million per week, or £52 Million per year..!!

So I'd be confident we'd find the funds if a Marquee target became realistic.

 

[devips]

Not to even mention how the wage bill has been trimmed, Bastian was on £200pw, Rooney £250pw and Ibrahimovich £360pw, along Depay and Schneiderlin thats about one Million per week, or £52 Million per year..!!

So I'd be confident we'd find the funds if a Marquee target became realistic.

What about Neymar? 1 Euro more than 2,00,000 should do the trick! Just wenger the PSG.

 

[manux399]

He scored 11 goals and he was a big reason for winning EL. You may not like his consistency issues, but it's dishonest to say he has shown nothing.

Quite, think it's been said often enough United need a player in the Middle to get 10 a season. Given his lay-off's for injury 11 is a pretty good return.

 

[Chuckazulu]

People are saying Perisic is the next logical signing, which I think is a good transfer but not if Martial goes in the opposite direction (as is being reported). We need Martial as well as a left winger that can cross the ball in. Winning the league is about having options. What happens if Perisic gets smashed in a PL challenge and is out for months (very possible). As for Sanchez, apparently he has his heart set on Man City so I think this is not going to happen.

Very doubtful we would loan out Martial if Perisic comes despite the rumours.

 

[ManuMou]

With Neymar gone for 200/300M who knows how much......

WRT Griezmann buyout clause 200M, reduced to 100M in Jan......(clearly Griezmann expect someone to buy him, tho not necessarily us, otherwise I believe AM would increase his buyout clause in this new contract. The fact that his buyout automatically reduce to 100M in Jan makes me firmly believe that he intends to leave. Anyway.......)

Given:

1. In a world of hyperinflation.......
2. With Perisic priced @ 55M (55% of 100M buyout)
3. "survive 6 months" with Martial/Rashford/Mkhi/Lingard/Mata we should do ok
4. With Jose quoting something like "Neymar @ 200M is not expensive"
5. If we don't do it, there is a big chance another club like City would pay up for it
6. WRT World Cup, I think a player of his quality, alrdy a big star in French-team-starting-XI, switching club and still be in starting XI, especially to a big club in a big league like us, wont decrease his chance of playing World Cup at all. So I think this is a non-issue

I think buying out Griezmann in Jan for 100M euros its definitely a bargain, if he is still available.

Unless we are broke, I think Jose/Ed should definitely dump Perisic and go for Griezmann (Griezmann was our 1st choice, Perisic 2nd). Well I wouldn't mind signing both of coz !!

What's the % chance of us signing Griezmann you guys think.

Thoughts ?

 

[Dave46]

With Neymar gone for 200/300M who knows how much......

WRT Griezmann buyout clause 200M, reduced to 100M in Jan......(clearly Griezmann expect someone to buy him, tho not necessarily us, otherwise I believe AM would increase his buyout clause in this new contract. The fact that his buyout reduce to 100M I firmly believe he intends to leave. Anyway.......)

1. In a world of hyperinflation.......
2. With Perisic priced @ 55M
3. "survive 6 months" with Martial/Rashford/Mkhi/Lingard/Mata we should do ok
4. With Jose quoting something like "Neymar @ 200M is not expensive"
5. If we don't do it, there is a big chance another club like City would pay up for it

I think buying out Griezmann in Jan for 100M euros its definitely a bargain, if he is still available.

Unless we are broke, I think Jose/Ed should definitely dump Perisic and go for Griezmann

What's the % chance of us signing Griezmann you guys think.

Thoughts ?

Not a chance in January. Mega transfers do not happen in Winter window.

 

[ManuMou]

Not a chance in January. Mega transfers do not happen in Winter window.

Logic ? Unless there is logic backing this pattern up......

Even tho there are some logic behind it (cash flows etc.......), could this be the outlier where we want him badly/would hav signed him were it not for the transfer ban, and his reduced buyout clause in Winter ??

Another thing that makes me curious is that why the buyout is to be reduced in Winter instead of summer......hmmm.....could there be any "closed door" agreement btw us and Griezmann

 

[notcool]

Logic ?

Well, he would be cup-tied in the Champions League.

 

[ManuMou]

Well, he would be cup-tied in the Champions League.

That could be one of the factorS

But anyway we will see. Altho nxt summer is more likely, winter doesn't sound impossible to me