Our form since the restart...WWWWWWWDLWWWWDWDWWWWL…WDWW (also the calm down thread)

[jasT1981]

Today was bad, but it didn't fill me with dread in the way some other big score losses did in the last few seasons.

Under SAF we got hit with some heavy defeats in our prime. City and Southampton putting 6 past us, Newcastle and Chelsea put 5 in against us and as bad as they were, they were blips. Same with today. It's not nice, but thankfully its not a reoccuring fear it will happen anymore like it was for the last few years.

 

[mshnsh]

I remember we once lost 6-0 at home to City. It turned out to be a mere blip. Let's hope this one is too. The performance, especially second half, was so out of character. I hope 10Hag gives the players a proper dressing down.

 

[FriedClams]

Doubt that it's in the record books

Where do you go from here, as a fan then? Liverpool beating us 7-0 is as you say, the worst result in our history (I guess arguably) but if we end the season above them, with another trophy, I know I won’t be remembering the drubbing at anfield.

 

[croadyman]

Today was bad, but it didn't fill me with dread in the way some other big score losses did in the last few seasons.

Under SAF we got hit with some heavy defeats in our prime. City and Southampton putting 6 past us, Newcastle and Chelsea put 5 in against us and as bad as they were, they were blips. Same with today. It's not nice, but thankfully its not a reoccuring fear it will happen anymore like it was for the last few years.

Please don't compare either City & Southampton because least we scored in those games. Hell even Newcastle and Chelsea were 5-0 not 7 NIL. Some don't seem to understand the significance of who this has happened against.

 

[croadyman]

Where do you go from here, as a fan then? Liverpool beating us 7-0 is as you say, the worst result in our history (I guess arguably) but if we end the season above them, with another trophy, I know I won’t be remembering the drubbing at anfield.

Well they deserve military style punishment like running until throwing up for a start so they know what suffering is.

Sorry I can't just bury a defeat to them so easily like clearly you and many others can. Will try and just focus on cups now not league.

 

[jasT1981]

Please don't compare either City & Southampton because least we scored in those games. Hell even Newcastle and Chelsea were 5-0 not 7 NIL. Some don't seem to understand the significance of who this has happened against.

Why? The point is we suffered heavy losses before and bounced back, scoring or not.. Today was terrible, but its not like the last few years where the players didn't care one way or another. Today they fell apart, but I have the confidence we will bounce back from this and not the feeling of dread we've had for the last few seasons.

 

[jasT1981]

Well they deserve military style punishment like running until throwing up for a start so they know what suffering is.

Sorry I can't just bury a defeat to them so easily like clearly you and many others can. Will try and just focus on cups now not league.

Oh I am not burying it, I am pissed. But the point I am making is this is a setback. Shouldn't have happened. Players were disgraceful, but we know this squad cares not like the attitude after defeats in the last few seasons.

 

[Blood Mage]

I remember we once lost 6-0 at home to City. It turned out to be a mere blip. Let's hope this one is too. The performance, especially second half, was so out of character. I hope 10Hag gives the players a proper dressing down.

It's our 3rd hammering this season though after getting hammered six times last season. It's hard-wired into the DNA of some of our players now and they need to be booted out of the club.

 

[jasT1981]

It's our 3rd hammering this season though after getting hammered six times last season. It's hard-wired into the DNA of some of our players now and they need to be booted out of the club.

Oh I do agree, there are some who should never have made it to this season.

 

[croadyman]

It's our 3rd hammering this season though after getting hammered six times last season. It's hard-wired into the DNA of some of our players now and they need to be booted out of the club.

Yeah thought Erik said after Brentford he wouldn't allow this to happen again,but against City and even worse scousers. We could easily have leaked 9 like Bournemouth did which is disgraceful

 

[RedRonaldo]

Thanks for reminding. We are in our best form in years, and we still losing 7 goals to Liverpool.

I am feeling even worst now.

 

[croadyman]

Thanks for reminding. We are in our best form in years, and we still losing 7 goals to Liverpool.

I am feeling even worst now.

Yeah people need to quit giving it this always look on the bright side of life BS after a beating

 

[FriedClams]

Well they deserve military style punishment like running until throwing up for a start so they know what suffering is.

Sorry I can't just bury a defeat to them so easily like clearly you and many others can. Will try and just focus on cups now not league.

There’s no right or wrong way to take it, however it affects you is understandable. If nothing else, ETH today learned what some of these guys do when shit REALLY hits the fan. Have to trust him to be able to find a positive in all of it, somehow.

 

[RedTiger]

This is a good point actually - we've played all our games vs Arsenal, City and Liverpool.

Arsenal still have to play City and Liverpool away.
City still have Arsenal and Liverpool at home.
Liverpool have Arsenal at home and City away.

As long as we keep chugging away, those 3 teams will drop points which will hopefully consolidate our top 4 spot.

True that.

 

[Huddsred]

Today was bad, but it didn't fill me with dread in the way some other big score losses did in the last few seasons.

Under SAF we got hit with some heavy defeats in our prime. City and Southampton putting 6 past us, Newcastle and Chelsea put 5 in against us and as bad as they were, they were blips. Same with today. It's not nice, but thankfully its not a reoccuring fear it will happen anymore like it was for the last few years.

Exactly. Saudi Arabia humiliated Argentina in the first round of the World Cup, but they didn't let it get them down, they moved on and went on to win to the thing, and nobody remembers that now. We need to deploy the same mentality.

And for anyone who says "Oh it's different because it's Liverpool", well at least Liverpool are a decent side. Bottom line is that freak results happen and you've got to move on from them.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I don't know whom the OP is addressing. Anyone who is saying ETH should be fired over this or that team is absolute shit because of this and has no redemption is insane.
Equally insane are the ones who are acting as if this was a normal loss at Anfield. And it's all part of some kind of process

 

[croadyman]

I don't know whom the OP is addressing. Anyone who is saying ETH should be fired over this or that team is absolute shit because of this and has no redemption is insane.
Equally insane are the ones who are acting as if this was a normal loss at Anfield. And it's all part of some kind of process

Definitely kneejerk saying our best manager in a decade should be fired,however getting redemption for the players won't be easy after such gutless showing either. Yeah definitely not a remotely normal loss in a million years

 

[Waynne]

This is not just a bad day. This is our biggest loss in almost a century against our bitter rivals. People are right to be upset, and questioning the tactics and performance levels of our players in the second half is not unreasonable.

I have been hugely impressed with EtH this season, but god knows what he was thinking putting Shaw at CB when 4-0 down. Should have brought on Maguire for Bruno, taken our medicine and not shipped one of the most infamous results of our clubs entire history.

How we look back on this in 3 months depends on how we respond and end the season. How we look back on it now can only be in a hugely negative light. Anyone else thinking otherwise must be crazy in my eyes. This will hurt for a long time.

That's fine. Question the tactits and the performance levels of our players. But as I said before, you win some, you lose some. Losing is part of the game. This 'will hurt for a long time' is nonsense.

We lost 7-0. So what. They were better than us on the day. I'm a Man United supporter for 30+ years and realize there will be teams better than us on the day but come tomorrow I'll still cheer for the same group and be fully behind the team.

 

[meamth]

I was devastated, but waking up today I realised this is nothing.

Main reason is because I know these players have performed better and at the top level more often than most this season.

Luke Shaw has been immense.
Casemiro, Varane, Martinez has been putting world class performances consistently.
Rashford has been brilliant.

We go again, tis just a blip.

 

[wangyu]

I am calm, I have been completely numb ever since the 1-0. I am pretty sure I will still be when I wake up tomorrow.

 

[wangyu]

Exactly. Saudi Arabia humiliated Argentina in the first round of the World Cup, but they didn't let it get them down, they moved on and went on to win to the thing, and nobody remembers that now. We need to deploy the same mentality.

And for anyone who says "Oh it's different because it's Liverpool", well at least Liverpool are a decent side. Bottom line is that freak results happen and you've got to move on from them.

They didn’t get humiliated and destroyed though

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I was devastated, but waking up today I realised this is nothing.

Main reason is because I know these players have performed better and at the top level more often than most this season.

Luke Shaw has been immense.
Casemiro, Varane, Martinez has been putting world class performances consistently.
Rashford has been brilliant.

We go again, tis just a blip.

It seems so but numbers do not lie.


Last season at matchday 25 we had
This is after sacking Ole appointing Ralf, with McFred, Maguire, Lindelof, Pogba, Matic team


43 points.
Now we have 49 points. With all those inform players you say.

Goal difference then +8
Now +6

We've conceded more goals than last season at matchday 25.


We have leaked more goals than
Westham.
Brenford.
Crystal Palace.
Fulham
Chelsea


This season, can't be those teams have better players than us, it's how we set up.

Still we are having 30%-40% possession in games.

Westham had so many chances last game.
Leicester had so many chances the other day, they didn't take them. Yesterday we found a team that takes them.

Newcastle in the final, had around 60% possession.

The signs are there just that it took time unravel.

Imagine a inform United team with all those glaring stats.


If Rashford goes through dip in form as it seems now, we are in deep deep trouble.

Nobody else can score in this team,
Antony doesn't create any chances for his team mate,
WW doesn't score,
Bruno 44 goals in 111 games remove 17 penalties it's a very small return for a player who let's us concede possession in every game,
still Eriksen is top in our assist chart after than long in the sideline.


Something has to change, for me midfield 2 has to be let go.

Ten Hag has been able to bin Ronaldo and Maguire, he should have the balls to bin Bruno for a more 433 set-up or else we will be a +8 goal difference team in the league.

 

[Get In Scholesy]

I think of all the heavy defeats since 2014, we have the best manager of the lot to set us straight and steady the ship. Takes a little bit of sting out from the result. Terrible terrible result mind you, but I’m expecting them to turn up Thursday.

 

[always_hoping]

Please don't compare either City & Southampton because least we scored in those games. Hell even Newcastle and Chelsea were 5-0 not 7 NIL. Some don't seem to understand the significance of who this has happened against.

not acceptable to lose by that margin to your biggest rival however United can still finish the season ahead of Liverpool and have won a trophy unlike them so I'd take that before any individual results.

 

[Galactic]

It seems so but numbers do not lie.


Last season at matchday 25 we had
This is after sacking Ole appointing Ralf, with McFred, Maguire, Lindelof, Pogba, Matic team


43 points.
Now we have 49 points. With all those inform players you say.

Goal difference then +8
Now +6

We've conceded more goals than last season at matchday 25.


We have leaked more goals than
Westham.
Brenford.
Crystal Palace.
Fulham
Chelsea


This season, can't be those teams have better players than us, it's how we set up.

Still we are having 30%-40% possession in games.

Westham had so many chances last game.
Leicester had so many chances the other day, they didn't take them. Yesterday we found a team that takes them.

Newcastle in the final, had around 60% possession.

The signs are there just that it took time unravel.

Imagine a inform United team with all those glaring stats.


If Rashford goes through dip in form as it seems now, we are in deep deep trouble.

Nobody else can score in this team,
Antony doesn't create any chances for his team mate,
WW doesn't score,
Bruno 44 goals in 111 games remove 17 penalties it's a very small return for a player who let's us concede possession in every game,
still Eriksen is top in our assist chart after than long in the sideline.


Something has to change, for me midfield 2 has to be let go.

Ten Hag has been able to bin Ronaldo and Maguire, he should have the balls to bin Bruno for a more 433 set-up or else we will be a +8 goal difference team in the league.

Numbers don’t lie but it’s very obvious that’s we are much better than recent seasons in terms of organization and togetherness and even quality. Of course we need to keep improving. We are a team in rebuilding stage anyway.

Plus, bin Bruno for who?

 

[Acquire Me]

Good thread. We had to lose eventually and we did it against them. It’s disgusting, but it’s something I personally can deal with.

It’s more important to get back on the horse again. I think we will.

 

[Gordon S]

It seems so but numbers do not lie.


Last season at matchday 25 we had
This is after sacking Ole appointing Ralf, with McFred, Maguire, Lindelof, Pogba, Matic team


43 points.
Now we have 49 points. With all those inform players you say.

Goal difference then +8
Now +6

We've conceded more goals than last season at matchday 25.


We have leaked more goals than
Westham.
Brenford.
Crystal Palace.
Fulham
Chelsea


This season, can't be those teams have better players than us, it's how we set up.

Still we are having 30%-40% possession in games.

Westham had so many chances last game.
Leicester had so many chances the other day, they didn't take them. Yesterday we found a team that takes them.

Newcastle in the final, had around 60% possession.

The signs are there just that it took time unravel.

Imagine a inform United team with all those glaring stats.


If Rashford goes through dip in form as it seems now, we are in deep deep trouble.

Nobody else can score in this team,
Antony doesn't create any chances for his team mate,
WW doesn't score,
Bruno 44 goals in 111 games remove 17 penalties it's a very small return for a player who let's us concede possession in every game,
still Eriksen is top in our assist chart after than long in the sideline.


Something has to change, for me midfield 2 has to be let go.

Ten Hag has been able to bin Ronaldo and Maguire, he should have the balls to bin Bruno for a more 433 set-up or else we will be a +8 goal difference team in the league.

Agree with this.
I want to believe that EtH has something special brewing here, but if you manage to look past the horror show of last season we seem to be on our way to a rather standard season post SAF. Both LvG and Mou managed some titles and top 4 finishes, Ole managed top 4 twice and were 2-3 penalties away from winning EL. We are realistically looking at 3 place in the league and a League Cup here. Praying we can pick up something more.

 

[Nickelodeon]

I appreciate the entire sentiment of realizing that it is ultimately only one game. Barring goal difference becoming an issue at the end of the season, it is 3 points we've lost regardless of the scoreline. Yes, we were quite unlucky today as the xG suggests. All random deflections were falling for Liverpool players perfectly and in fact, this was a less worse performance than the 5-0 at OT last season where it could've been much more had they not stepped off the gas. However, a line needs to be drawn somewhere and some heads must roll. As a team, we need to be reminded of a bare minimum standard that needs to be achieved.

A 4-0 score, I can live with. It is a culmination of things not going your way and opponents scoring with every opportunity. 7-0 is players being petrified to be on the pitch. Desperately hoping for the game to end while being heavy in defeat is not the sentiment players or fans should be having to carry at this club.

 

[PaulRich]

We've gone great guns since the restart. Granted yesterday was an utter shit show but we need an instant bounce back. Betis cant come quick enough - back to OT and a nice sound win would do wonders.

 

[Abhinav]

Agree with this.
I want to believe that EtH has something special brewing here, but if you manage to look past the horror show of last season we seem to be on our way to a rather standard season post SAF. Both LvG and Mou managed some titles and top 4 finishes, Ole managed top 4 twice and were 2-3 penalties away from winning EL. We are realistically looking at 3 place in the league and a League Cup here. Praying we can pick up something more.

This is not a standard PL season since Fergie. We are on track for a 75 point season, which we have managed only twice in last 9 seasons. We have added a Trophy and may add more by the end of the season. It will also be the first time when we finished in the Top 4 and actually won something.
On top of that, we have defeated City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barcelona and at our home ground. Yes, we have had a few major setbacks such as the City loss and yesterday, but a lot of progress has been made for people to claim there is no/ insignificant change from earlier seasons.

 

[tjarligdrengen]

We've played 21 games since the World Cup finished, winning 16, drawing 3 and losing 2. That's pretty good going.

The two losses have come against the leaders (when we faced them without our best player), and a bogey team who are pretty much out of every competition and playing what is literally their cup final of the season.

Our fixture list is gruelling (we've had a game every 3 days since the restart) and our squad isn't as large as some of the other teams around us.

Let's just all stay calm and trust the rebuild process.

EtH has done an incredible job taking this team from where it was post Rangnick to where it is now...and we have a trophy to boot.

The first season of his reign was never going to be a smooth ride. It was always going to be turbulent, but the overall trajectory is good, we're winning more games than any other season post Fergie, and we're still looking strong to add another trophy to the Carabao Cup. Our team is still a few signings away from being complete, but we are getting there.

It's a shit feeling to lose to Liverpool, especially by such a heavy scoreline, but I'm not as crestfallen as I was following the 5-0 and 4-0 from last season.

We were realistically never in for the title given the start we had, but a comfortable 3rd place finish would be excellent. If a trophy & top 4 was offered at the start of the season, I'm guessing most of us would have taken that. So let's just get behind the team and push them on in the competitions we're in.

Amen.
Yeah sure, I’m furious and depressed by the result, but if someone in august said to me “United will in march have won a trophy and sit comfortably in CL-position” I would have laughed my socks of. But here we are.

the two losses last year, where imo waaaayyy worsethan this.
We’ll bounce back soon enough, and I’m pretty sure that we’ll only lose one (two at the most) rest of the season in PL. maybe even get another trophy.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Numbers don’t lie but it’s very obvious that’s we are much better than recent seasons in terms of organization and togetherness and even quality. Of course we need to keep improving. We are a team in rebuilding stage anyway.

Plus, bin Bruno for who?

How comes we are better in organization, togetherness and quality yet we have +8 goal difference, 49 points against 43 points last season, leaked more goals than Moyes Westham, Fulham, Brenford, even Chelsea... Please open your eyes.


An improved United has been thrashed 7 goals against Liverpool, a very weak Liverpool side. Thrashed 6 goals in Etihad against a 'weak' City squad.

If that's improving then, we have a long way to go.

Even Mourinho last game was a 3-0 in Anfield, not 7 nil.


Not calling Ten Hag head but people are acting as if we have been blowing teams away.

Even Ole had away unbeaten record, and he also had thrashing on his side.

This will just be a normal like season after Ferguson. 75-80 points. Thrashing along the way, some good wins along the way looking like we are back, Carabao cup along the way, then ooppss moments.

All this is because of how we set-up. We are still a counter attacking team, we are happy to concede possession to teams, as last season our attack is Rashford as it was Ronaldo,

Ten Hag is playing himself into the hole again, he first needs to implement possession team, whoever can't do it be binned off.

Same way he binned off Maguire, he needs to bin off any player who can't be comfortable with the ball.

First culprit is Bruno. Compare Bruno with Odergaard, day and light on how you should play.

We are still playing the same way we did in 2018, just some players with heart and ability are making a bit of a difference.

Look at all the Anfield Etihad games since 2018, we have not evolved much.

A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 9 goals against Liverpool last season. 28% possession away. 37% home.

A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 8 goals against Liverpool this season. 40% possession away. 30% at home


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 6 goals against City last season. 31% away. 33% home
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 7 goals against City this season. 30% at home, 46% away.


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 5 goals against Arsenal last season. 45% possession. Both games
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 4 goals against Arsenal this season. 43% away, 30% home.


as you can see their little difference in our play in all those big games where intensity and tactical brilliance comes into play.

Europa Final vs Villareal

Possession 57 % United. We lost

Carabao cup vs Newcastle

Possession 39% United. We won.


And a big pointer is, any games we've won highlighted above we've had 39% and below possession.


as you can see we have not evolved much, we are still a counter attacking team, who's midfield crumbles from time time thus the trashing while having less than 40% of possession in average in big games.

Ten Hag has to impose possession football or else he will fail miserably. We give him a pass this season, he can't bin everyone at once but this summer is huge for him.

He needs to sign players who can hold the ball at least 5 seconds more in tight positions and pass it accurately. DDG,Fred,Bruno, AWB (Dalot) are the main culprits and have been here for sometime now

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Please don't compare either City & Southampton because least we scored in those games. Hell even Newcastle and Chelsea were 5-0 not 7 NIL. Some don't seem to understand the significance of who this has happened against.

The xG in those games was almost invariably higher. Today was a 3-0/3-1 defeat based on the chances Liverpool had. If you played the game 1000 times over, the average score would be 3-0/3-1. 7 hugely flatters them. The scoreline is irrelevant as our goal difference was shot to pieces. It's 3 points lost but taking the post-WC period as a whole, we've been exceptional.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Licha-Vidic

The fact that we can't have the ball against decent sides is a reality and I'm sure ETH is working on it. You can't transform a team overnight and the manager is working towards that. Having players like Fred who can't pass, Fernandes who always takes risks, Rashford who always goes on solo runs and Weghorst who just can't kick a football properly does not help in keeping possession against good teams. We will see changes in the future but these things take time.

 

[Marwood]

How comes we are better in organization, togetherness and quality yet we have +8 goal difference, 49 points against 43 points last season, leaked more goals than Moyes Westham, Fulham, Brenford, even Chelsea... Please open your eyes.


An improved United has been thrashed 7 goals against Liverpool, a very weak Liverpool side. Thrashed 6 goals in Etihad against a 'weak' City squad.

If that's improving then, we have a long way to go.

Even Mourinho last game was a 3-0 in Anfield, not 7 nil.


Not calling Ten Hag head but people are acting as if we have been blowing teams away.

Even Ole had away unbeaten record, and he also had thrashing on his side.

This will just be a normal like season after Ferguson. 75-80 points. Thrashing along the way, some good wins along the way looking like we are back, Carabao cup along the way, then ooppss moments.

All this is because of how we set-up. We are still a counter attacking team, we are happy to concede possession to teams, as last season our attack is Rashford as it was Ronaldo,

Ten Hag is playing himself into the hole again, he first needs to implement possession team, whoever can't do it be binned off.

Same way he binned off Maguire, he needs to bin off any player who can't be comfortable with the ball.

First culprit is Bruno. Compare Bruno with Odergaard, day and light on how you should play.

We are still playing the same way we did in 2018, just some players with heart and ability are making a bit of a difference.

Look at all the Anfield Etihad games since 2018, we have not evolved much.

A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 9 goals against Liverpool last season. 28% possession away. 37% home.

A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 8 goals against Liverpool this season. 40% possession away. 30% at home


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 6 goals against City last season. 31% away. 33% home
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 7 goals against City this season. 30% at home, 46% away.


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 5 goals against Arsenal last season. 45% possession. Both games
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 4 goals against Arsenal this season. 43% away, 30% home.


as you can see their little difference in our play in all those big games where intensity and tactical brilliance comes into play.

Europa Final vs Villareal

Possession 57 % United. We lost

Carabao cup vs Newcastle

Possession 39% United. We won.


And a big pointer is, any games we've won highlighted above we've had 39% and below possession.


as you can see we have not evolved much, we are still a counter attacking team, who's midfield crumbles from time time thus the trashing while having less than 40% of possession in average in big games.

Ten Hag has to impose possession football or else he will fail miserably. We give him a pass this season, he can't bin everyone at once but this summer is huge for him.

He needs to sign players who can hold the ball at least 5 seconds more in tight positions and pass it accurately. DDG,Fred,Bruno, AWB (Dalot) are the main culprits and have been here for sometime now

Very good post.

A bit of objective analysis to cut through all the back patting that's been going on for a few months.

 

[Real Name]

How comes we are better in organization, togetherness and quality yet we have +8 goal difference, 49 points against 43 points last season, leaked more goals than Moyes Westham, Fulham, Brenford, even Chelsea... Please open your eyes.


An improved United has been thrashed 7 goals against Liverpool, a very weak Liverpool side. Thrashed 6 goals in Etihad against a 'weak' City squad.

If that's improving then, we have a long way to go.

Even Mourinho last game was a 3-0 in Anfield, not 7 nil.


Not calling Ten Hag head but people are acting as if we have been blowing teams away.

Even Ole had away unbeaten record, and he also had thrashing on his side.

This will just be a normal like season after Ferguson. 75-80 points. Thrashing along the way, some good wins along the way looking like we are back, Carabao cup along the way, then ooppss moments.

All this is because of how we set-up. We are still a counter attacking team, we are happy to concede possession to teams, as last season our attack is Rashford as it was Ronaldo,

Ten Hag is playing himself into the hole again, he first needs to implement possession team, whoever can't do it be binned off.

Same way he binned off Maguire, he needs to bin off any player who can't be comfortable with the ball.

First culprit is Bruno. Compare Bruno with Odergaard, day and light on how you should play.

We are still playing the same way we did in 2018, just some players with heart and ability are making a bit of a difference.

Look at all the Anfield Etihad games since 2018, we have not evolved much.

A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 9 goals against Liverpool last season. 28% possession away. 37% home.

A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 8 goals against Liverpool this season. 40% possession away. 30% at home


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 6 goals against City last season. 31% away. 33% home
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 7 goals against City this season. 30% at home, 46% away.


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 5 goals against Arsenal last season. 45% possession. Both games
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 4 goals against Arsenal this season. 43% away, 30% home.


as you can see their little difference in our play in all those big games where intensity and tactical brilliance comes into play.

Europa Final vs Villareal

Possession 57 % United. We lost

Carabao cup vs Newcastle

Possession 39% United. We won.


And a big pointer is, any games we've won highlighted above we've had 39% and below possession.


as you can see we have not evolved much, we are still a counter attacking team, who's midfield crumbles from time time thus the trashing while having less than 40% of possession in average in big games.

Ten Hag has to impose possession football or else he will fail miserably. We give him a pass this season, he can't bin everyone at once but this summer is huge for him.

He needs to sign players who can hold the ball at least 5 seconds more in tight positions and pass it accurately. DDG,Fred,Bruno, AWB (Dalot) are the main culprits and have been here for sometime now

We absolutely are evolving as a team. And of course there's still a long way to go but you just cant say we havent evolved youst cause we shipped 6 and 7 goals to City and Liverpool. We still have to work on away games form and need players who can control the tempo and have more possession in those games but passing and controling the game has been better. You avoided our Old Trafford form which has been great, and in previous seasons teams would come to OT and have fun. You cant pick and choose games and stats to prove we haven't evolved like that.

And one more thing, which isnt aimed at you. Just like after Arsenal defeat I see all the usual suspects who have been on ETH's case from day one are out in force (clue post above mine).

 

[Licha-Vidic]

We absolutely are evolving as a team. And of course there's still a long way to go but you just cant say we havent evolved youst cause we shipped 6 and 7 goals to City and Liverpool. We still have to work on away games form and need players who can control the tempo and have more possession in those games but passing and controling the game has been better. You avoided our Old Trafford form which has been great, and in previous seasons teams would come to OT and have fun. You cant pick and choose games and stats to prove we haven't evolved like that.

And one more thing, which isnt aimed at you. Just like after Arsenal defeat I see all the usual suspects who have been on ETH's case from day one are out in force (clue post above mine).

I've not avoided them there are in the analysis, written very well.

This season against City HOME we had 30% possession. 30%. And scored a very controversial equalizer.

Against Arsenal at home we had 30% possession. Again another 30%.

Against Liverpool at home we had 30% possession at home.

We won all those games but it's was counter attacking football.

Only Barca home we managed 45%.

Newcastle final it was 39% possession.

All this with Casemiro, Varane, Licha, Rashford, Bruno, Eriksen all of whom we say is our spine.


Then add the hammerings from Etihad, Anfield, Brenford


Yes a good coach get results,.wins trophies while changing the setup.

Ten Hag must be bold enough to go 433 with 3 midfielders who can play and hold the ball well. If not it's just a false dawn..


It is not a coincidence we have NEVER scored more than 3 goals in the league under Ten Hag but we have shipped more than 3 goals in 3 different scenarios. 4-0, 6-3, 7-0.

This shows the setup in extremely wrong, we are never in hammering teams but teams hammer us.

Licha-Vidic



The fact that we can't have the ball against decent sides is a reality and I'm sure ETH is working on it. You can't transform a team overnight and the manager is working towards that. Having players like Fred who can't pass, Fernandes who always takes risks, Rashford who always goes on solo runs and Weghorst who just can't kick a football properly does not help in keeping possession against good teams. We will see changes in the future but these things take time.

Also you've brought it out.

How comes all forward signings are failing.

Antony, then WW. They all have massive anomalies.

Remove Garnacho and Rashford, both academy players, our attacking play is Chelsea-esque.

He needs to see through this handbrake and go back to 433. Same way he binned Maguire.

He needs to sign 3 players. 2 midfielders 1 striker. These 3 should be extremely good with the ball.

Later RB + Goalie.

Ten Hag is a honest man he should be able to see truth in this, you can't auto pilot through games, you need players who can play football as it is.

 

[Real Name]

I've not avoided them there are in the analysis, written very well.

This season against City HOME we had 30% possession. 30%. And scored a very controversial equalizer.

Against Arsenal at home we had 30% possession. Again another 30%.

Against Liverpool at home we had 30% possession at home.

We won all those games but it's was counter attacking football.

Only Barca home we managed 45%.

Newcastle final it was 39% possession.

All this with Casemiro, Varane, Licha, Rashford, Bruno, Eriksen all of whom we say is our spine.


Then add the hammerings from Etihad, Anfield, Brenford


Yes a good coach get results,.wins trophies while changing the setup.

Ten Hag must be bold enough to go 433 with 3 midfielders who can play and hold the ball well. If not it's just a false dawn..


It is not a coincidence we have NEVER scored more than 3 goals in the league under Ten Hag but we have shipped more than 3 goals in 3 different scenarios. 4-0, 6-3, 7-0.

This shows the setup in extremely wrong, we are never in hammering teams but teams hammer us.

You take derbies in isolation. We still have to work on possession in big games but overall in the leage and in Europe OT is becoming a fortress again.
Also controversial or not we beat City deservedly, same against Liverpool and Arsenal. And against Arsenal we had 39 possession, not much better but certainly better than 30 you claim we had.
All in all despite hammerings and will be more bumps in the road we are evolving as a team, you just need to look at our games. As you said lesser teams would come to OT and have fun, that doesnt happen anymore. Still a lot of work but you cant take few games in isolation like that.
You're saying good coach is getting results while winning trophies. Exactly what ETH has done thus far.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I've not avoided them there are in the analysis, written very well.

This season against City HOME we had 30% possession. 30%. And scored a very controversial equalizer.

Against Arsenal at home we had 30% possession. Again another 30%.

Against Liverpool at home we had 30% possession at home.

We won all those games but it's was counter attacking football.

Only Barca home we managed 45%.

Newcastle final it was 39% possession.

All this with Casemiro, Varane, Licha, Rashford, Bruno, Eriksen all of whom we say is our spine.


Then add the hammerings from Etihad, Anfield, Brenford


Yes a good coach get results,.wins trophies while changing the setup.

Ten Hag must be bold enough to go 433 with 3 midfielders who can play and hold the ball well. If not it's just a false dawn..


It is not a coincidence we have NEVER scored more than 3 goals in the league under Ten Hag but we have shipped more than 3 goals in 3 different scenarios. 4-0, 6-3, 7-0.

This shows the setup in extremely wrong, we are never in hammering teams but teams hammer us.

You continue to provide possession stats as if they alone win games.

He’s been in charge what 8 months, you need to be bold enough to not judge the guy on a midfield where Fred & McTominay are still options.

Never this, never that. It’s been less than a year.

 

[Pexbo]

How comes we are better in organization, togetherness and quality yet we have +8 goal difference, 49 points against 43 points last season, leaked more goals than Moyes Westham, Fulham, Brenford, even Chelsea... Please open your eyes.


An improved United has been thrashed 7 goals against Liverpool, a very weak Liverpool side. Thrashed 6 goals in Etihad against a 'weak' City squad.

If that's improving then, we have a long way to go.

Even Mourinho last game was a 3-0 in Anfield, not 7 nil.


Not calling Ten Hag head but people are acting as if we have been blowing teams away.

Even Ole had away unbeaten record, and he also had thrashing on his side.

This will just be a normal like season after Ferguson. 75-80 points. Thrashing along the way, some good wins along the way looking like we are back, Carabao cup along the way, then ooppss moments.

All this is because of how we set-up. We are still a counter attacking team, we are happy to concede possession to teams, as last season our attack is Rashford as it was Ronaldo,

Ten Hag is playing himself into the hole again, he first needs to implement possession team, whoever can't do it be binned off.

Same way he binned off Maguire, he needs to bin off any player who can't be comfortable with the ball.

First culprit is Bruno. Compare Bruno with Odergaard, day and light on how you should play.

We are still playing the same way we did in 2018, just some players with heart and ability are making a bit of a difference.

Look at all the Anfield Etihad games since 2018, we have not evolved much.

A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 9 goals against Liverpool last season. 28% possession away. 37% home.

A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 8 goals against Liverpool this season. 40% possession away. 30% at home


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 6 goals against City last season. 31% away. 33% home
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 7 goals against City this season. 30% at home, 46% away.


A Maguire Lindelof defense conceded 5 goals against Arsenal last season. 45% possession. Both games
A Varane Martinez defense have conceded 4 goals against Arsenal this season. 43% away, 30% home.


as you can see their little difference in our play in all those big games where intensity and tactical brilliance comes into play.

Europa Final vs Villareal

Possession 57 % United. We lost

Carabao cup vs Newcastle

Possession 39% United. We won.


And a big pointer is, any games we've won highlighted above we've had 39% and below possession.


as you can see we have not evolved much, we are still a counter attacking team, who's midfield crumbles from time time thus the trashing while having less than 40% of possession in average in big games.

Ten Hag has to impose possession football or else he will fail miserably. We give him a pass this season, he can't bin everyone at once but this summer is huge for him.

He needs to sign players who can hold the ball at least 5 seconds more in tight positions and pass it accurately. DDG,Fred,Bruno, AWB (Dalot) are the main culprits and have been here for sometime now

First go outside and touch grass.

Second, stop trying to read games through the prism of statistics. Anybody who has watched us this season can tell you that we are much better side and the fact we have won a trophy speaks volumes. The fact we could win another two says even more and despite this result, we should comfortably get top four.

This time last season our season was already over and rather than looking forward to matches like we are this season a fan base was apathetic and we couldn’t wait for it all to go away.

This is still the first season under ETH and our squad is still paper thin. Where the likes of City have two sets of Top 4 players, we’ve got one set of Top 4 players and one mid table side and over the course of the season that is going to show.

It was a freak result. Horrific, and should never have happened, but it was a combination of some very bad lapses in concentration and the stars aligning for Liverpool.

It’s still just 3 points dropped at the end of the day and it’s more important how we react to it. If we win our next game against Southampton we’re still 7 ahead of 4th and 5th.