Our Net Spend under Ole

[VanGaalEra]

Just looking at Ole's comments in the press conference today, looks like he's bracing himself for no major signings.

Everyone loves to talk about Net Spend, anyone know out Net Spend under Ole currently. I don't think it's more than about £100M, which is poor backing from the board considering this is the 4th window Ole has had.

 

[Devil_forever]

Just looking at Ole's comments in the press conference today, looks like he's bracing himself for no major signings.

Everyone loves to talk about Net Spend, anyone know out Net Spend under Ole currently. I don't think it's more than about £100M, which is poor backing from the board considering this is the 4th window Ole has had.

That’s not how I saw it at all, especially when he said, we’ll announce something when it’s done and then quickly caught himself and said when and if it’s done.

I would bet anything that we’ll bring in at least two players before the window closes. Maybe even an overpriced Sancho might be on that list. Let’s see.

 

[Castia]

I think its around £150m but that could be lower come monday if Smalling (18m) and Dalot are sold. He's done a great job that the figures dont really show like clearing Ashley Young and Sanchez off the books.

 

[The Man Himself]

I don't see press conference thread but really felt bad for Ole. He was struggling for words at times to justify why we are not signing anyone. Same excuses, same 'reasoning', same "we have lots of quality in squad" blah blah..He is ready to be the fall guy for absolute shitshow Ed and team put together in backend and that's sad to see. Caught in difficult position as well because saying in public that current lot is not good at all will not help either if he is stuck with them for season.

 

[Raw]

Figures from Transfermarkt
In (not including frees/loans)
AWB: £49.5m
James: £16.0m
Maguire: £78.3m
Bruno: £49.5m
VDB: £35.1m
Total: £228.4m

Out (not including frees/loans)
Lukaku: £66.6m
Darmian: £2.3m
Young: £1.5m
Fellaini: £6.5m
Total: £76.9m

Net: £151.5m

 

[diarm]

Figures from Transfermarkt
In (not including frees/loans)
AWB: £49.5m
James: £16.0m
Maguire: £78.3m
Bruno: £49.5m
VDB: £35.1m
Total: £228.4m

Out (not including frees/loans)
Lukaku: £66.6m
Darmian: £2.3m
Young: £1.5m
Total: £70.4m

Net: £158m

Fellaini went for around £6.5 in the first winter window as well I think.

 

[Raw]

Fellaini went for around £6.5 in the first winter window as well I think.

Ah yes he did, I'll edit that in.

 

[arthurka]

Figures from Transfermarkt
In (not including frees/loans)
AWB: £49.5m
James: £16.0m
Maguire: £78.3m
Bruno: £49.5m
VDB: £35.1m
Total: £228.4m

Out (not including frees/loans)
Lukaku: £66.6m
Darmian: £2.3m
Young: £1.5m
Total: £70.4m

Net: £158m

Maguire is more than 1/2 of the net and 1/3 of total sum. That makes me a bit depressed.

 

[Shiva87]

I guess 150 million odd is not enough in today's market for the kind of rebuild that Ole needed to do. Imagine Pep accepting that kind of an outlay. Impossible

 

[Raw]

Assuming we do get Sancho and Telles that adds about £125m for incoming transfers, then also assume we sell Smalling and Dalot for a combined £25m. It'll make our net spend about £250m over 2 summer and 2 winter windows.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Figures from Transfermarkt
In (not including frees/loans)
AWB: £49.5m
James: £16.0m
Maguire: £78.3m
Bruno: £49.5m
VDB: £35.1m
Total: £228.4m

Out (not including frees/loans)
Lukaku: £66.6m
Darmian: £2.3m
Young: £1.5m
Fellaini: £6.5m
Total: £76.9m

Net: £151.5m

I thought we got 75M back for Lukaku?

EDIT: BBC say we got £74M https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49146040

 

[AbusementPark]

Imagine complaining the manager hasn't been backed after spending 200m over 4 windows. Everyone expects the board to throw 200m a window at new players.

 

[Shiva87]

Will be interesting to see how much he has saved the club on wages as well.

He got rid of: Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez, Young, Smalling, Lukaku, Valencia, Rojo (half season), Darmian. Don't know if I'm missing more. This could easily end up being 20 to 30 m pounds of savings on wages.

Edit:. When you put those names together - oh boy, we are just so much better in terms of personnel now

 

[VanGaalEra]

Imagine complaining the manager hasn't been backed after spending 200m over 4 windows. Everyone expects the board to throw 200m a window at new players.

Averages out to 50M a window, not really great with how the market currently is.

 

[Raw]

I thought we got 75M back for Lukaku?

Yeah that was widely reported. Still, according to Transfermarkt it was just £66.6m.

 

[Raw]

Averages out to 50M a window, not really great with how the market currently is.

Yeah we've seen Chelsea outright spend in one/two windows as much as we've spent in 4. Difference is they got almost £200m back from selling players last year.

If we are going to be as frugal in the transfer market as we've been then we seriously need to improve how we sell players (not giving them stupid wages, keeping them for too long, etc).

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think you also have to include the incoming and outgoing wages to get a real idea of the monetary investment being made.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

The club finances allow for approximately £100-125m per annum in net transfer spend, on average. This shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Tom Cato]

Just looking at Ole's comments in the press conference today, looks like he's bracing himself for no major signings.

Everyone loves to talk about Net Spend, anyone know out Net Spend under Ole currently. I don't think it's more than about £100M, which is poor backing from the board considering this is the 4th window Ole has had.

I wish this forum had a good search option so I could actually find my post regarding Net Spend.

Net Spend is not a thing in football accounting used to value a transfer in the year it happens. It's just something fans and media made up to make sense of transfers.

I'll see if I can find the post.

 

[El Zoido]

I guess 150 million odd is not enough in today's market for the kind of rebuild that Ole needed to do. Imagine Pep accepting that kind of an outlay. Impossible

Pep would be a complete disaster here, I honestly think he’d do a worse job than Ole.

 

[POF]

Imagine complaining the manager hasn't been backed after spending 200m over 4 windows. Everyone expects the board to throw 200m a window at new players.

Reasonable point but you could equally say:
"Imagine insisting the manager has been backed after committing to a squad overhaul and then buying 5 players over 4 windows."

The issue is that United get absolutely fleeced for every player they sign. It's not Ole's fault that the club is incapable of signing quality players for anything other than outrageously high fees. He's not involved in the negotiations.

 

[Raw]

I wish this forum had a good search option so I could actually find my post regarding Net Spend.

Net Spend is not a thing in football accounting. It's just something fans and media made up to make sense of transfers.

I'll see if I can find the post.

Yeah isn't it something about how transfers are never really paid off in one lump sum, and that they're paid over a number of years?

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I wish this forum had a good search option so I could actually find my post regarding Net Spend.

Net Spend is not a thing in football accounting. It's just something fans and media made up to make sense of transfers.

I'll see if I can find the post.

Bollocks.

Directly from the 2019 Man Utd annual report, p61:

Net intangible asset – registrations capital expenditure

Our average net intangible asset – registrations capital expenditure over the last 5 years has been a cash outflow of
£115.0 million per fiscal year. However, net intangible asset – registrations capital expenditure has varied significantly from period to period, as shown in the table below, and while we expect that trend to continue, competition for talented players may force clubs to spend increasing amounts on player registration fees. We may explore new player acquisitions in connection with future transfer periods that may materially increase the amount of our net intangible asset – registrations capital expenditure. Actual cash used or generated from net intangible asset – registrations capital expenditure is recorded on our statement of cash flow under net cash outflow or inflow from investing activities.

 

[Tom Cato]

Yeah isn't it something about how transfers are never really paid off in one lump sum, and that they're paid over a number of years?

Yes that is the answer (partially). The actual value of the transfer is the entire cost of the transfer, amortized over the contract length, transfer value + agent fees + image rights + player wages/bonus/yada/yada = Total Sum over x years.

So for example a player bought for £50m is 50m+the players total wags + all assorted costs over 5 years for example.

It's that annual expenditure + all club operation costs vs operational income = EBIDTA. EBIDTA is the measure of the clubs potential in the transfer market annually PLUS the existing cash reserve.

The only thing a transfer actually affects the moment it happens: Is the cash reserve. NOT the clubs ability to purchase a player.

The reason I don't like the Net Spend argument is because it's a false argument that doesn't contribute anything, since the argument is factually incorrect to begin with.

 

[Tom Cato]

Bollocks.

Directly from the 2019 Man Utd annual report, p61:

My original post was perhaps a bit unclear so I updated the sentence you're refering to.

Annual Net Spend is obviously a thing in accounting, but in relations to football transfers and amortization, it's not how a value of a transfer is kept in the books. Net spend is essentially the cash that was paid out during that fiscal year.

 

[AbusementPark]

Reasonable point but you could equally say:
"Imagine insisting the manager has been backed after committing to a squad overhaul and then buying 5 players over 4 windows."

The issue is that United get absolutely fleeced for every player they sign. It's not Ole's fault that the club is incapable of signing quality players for anything other than outrageously high fees. He's not involved in the negotiations.

I just don't believe in throwing money at the problem. Yes we need a sancho type player for the team, so use the scouting network to unearth one. Looking at the net spend of Bayern and Sevilla and you wonder how they are able to perform with such a low budget every season.

 

[bond19821982]

Figures from Transfermarkt
In (not including frees/loans)
AWB: £49.5m
James: £16.0m
Maguire: £78.3m
Bruno: £49.5m
VDB: £35.1m
Total: £228.4m

Out (not including frees/loans)
Lukaku: £66.6m
Darmian: £2.3m
Young: £1.5m
Fellaini: £6.5m
Total: £76.9m

Net: £151.5m

151.5m for 2 years is a great support. 99% of the managers would kill for that kind of support from the owners.

We have been consistently spending 80-100m every year. Not sure what people are complaining about. It's not owners problem that the manager is spending them on dross.

Would make a case for DoF though.

 

[AshRK]

I just don't believe in throwing money at the problem. Yes we need a sancho type player for the team, so use the scouting network to unearth one. Looking at the net spend of Bayern and Sevilla and you wonder how they are able to perform with such a low budget every season.

Bayern operate in a one man league and can poach top talents in bundesliga without much competition. We don't have that privilege here. Ofcourse Bayern's scouting and running of the club is much much better than ours so that also helps.

 

[Shiva87]

Pep would be a complete disaster here, I honestly think he’d do a worse job than Ole.

He is a great coach to be honest so I can't compare. But he would have thrown a lot more tantrums publicly and put pressure on the board for sure. He is definitely an outspoken guy and doesn't mind challenging authority when he thinks they are not aligned with his goals.

 

[Shiva87]

151.5m for 2 years is a great support. 99% of the managers would kill for that kind of support from the owners.

We have been consistently spending 80-100m every year. Not sure what people are complaining about. It's not owners problem that the manager is spending them on dross.

Would make a case for DoF though.

And you think the 5 signings Ole has made are dross?

 

[POF]

I just don't believe in throwing money at the problem. Yes we need a sancho type player for the team, so use the scouting network to unearth one. Looking at the net spend of Bayern and Sevilla and you wonder how they are able to perform with such a low budget every season.

I agree. But that's not the manager's issue. It's the club's inability to navigate the market and find top quality talent where it takes more than watching Match of the Day to identify them.

What if Liverpool told Klopp they wouldn't sign Van Dijk and Allisson? "Don't say we haven't backed you because we've already spent £400m on Mane, Salah and Firmino.

The fact they got 3 top class forwards for reasonable fees is no reflection on Klopp any moreso than United overpaying for every player they go for is any reflection on Ole.

 

[Stacks]

I guess 150 million odd is not enough in today's market for the kind of rebuild that Ole needed to do. Imagine Pep accepting that kind of an outlay. Impossible

no one said it is and I doubt the board do either. You don't just splash 150mill every season if your main targets aren't gettable.

Yeah we've seen Chelsea outright spend in one/two windows as much as we've spent in 4. Difference is they got almost £200m back from selling players last year.

If we are going to be as frugal in the transfer market as we've been then we seriously need to improve how we sell players (not giving them stupid wages, keeping them for too long, etc).

bingo.

The club finances allow for approximately £100-125m per annum in net transfer spend, on average. This shouldn't be a surprise.

wouldn't be surprising

Reasonable point but you could equally say:
"Imagine insisting the manager has been backed after committing to a squad overhaul and then buying 5 players over 4 windows."

The issue is that United get absolutely fleeced for every player they sign. It's not Ole's fault that the club is incapable of signing quality players for anything other than outrageously high fees. He's not involved in the negotiations.

People hardly buy anyone in Jan. No one is going to overhaul the squad in 2 Summers which is what you are implying.

 

[POF]

no one said it is and I doubt the board do either. You don't just splash 150mill every season if your main targets aren't gettable.


bingo.

wouldn't be surprising


People hardly buy anyone in Jan. No one is going to overhaul the squad in 2 Summers which is what you are implying.

There just haven't been enough signings (so far) when you see who has left. Valencia, Young, Darmian, Smalling, Rojo, Fellaini, Herrera, Pereira, Lukaku, Sanchez all gone or going.

5 in is just not enough, especially when one of them (James) was a total punt.

Under Jose, the squad lacked quality in attack. Since then, they lost their highest paid player and second highest transfer of all time and replaced them with a winger from Swansea and a striker on loan from China.

 

[acnumber9]

151.5m for 2 years is a great support. 99% of the managers would kill for that kind of support from the owners.

We have been consistently spending 80-100m every year. Not sure what people are complaining about. It's not owners problem that the manager is spending them on dross.

Would make a case for DoF though.

Aston Villa have spent more than Man United in that time. It’s not great.

 

[bond19821982]

Aston Villa have spent more than Man United in that time. It’s not great.

And Real has spent less than that - means nothing.

Point is , 80-100m every year is a decent investment. We just need to spend it wisely. As long as we don't know how to spend it wisely, we will keep doing the same shit and say we aren't good enough.

 

[acnumber9]

And Real has spent less than that - means nothing.

Point is , 80-100m every year is a decent investment. We just need to spend it wisely. As long as we don't know how to spend it wisely, we will keep doing the same shit and say we aren't good enough.

Real Madrid spent over £300m last year. You’re way off.

 

[bond19821982]

Real Madrid spent over £300m last year. You’re way off.

You still don't seem to get the point. Replace Real with any half decent team and read the post again.

 

[davidmichael]

It’s not as depressing as things like Liverpool getting £24 million for Brewster or £19 million for Solanke whilst we can’t even get £15 million for Smalling or £10 million for Lingard who’s have both played at the highest level and don’t get me started on Jones or Rojo, we equally as fecking awful with incoming and outgoing and basically negotiating in general.

 

[acnumber9]

You still don't seem to get the point. Replace Real with any half decent team and read the post again.

It’s not my fault you don’t even know the facts of the examples you’re using. You can’t just say figures without giving any context and then use an example of a team who’ve spent more than United, on top of having a better team, to prove we’ve invested enough. We blatantly haven’t yet. And we still haven’t spent at the level of the figures that you’re quoting.

Would you like me to compare it to Man City who already had a better team than us? I’ll save you the Google, they’ve spent more.

 

[sullydnl]

Unless I'm miscounting, we've made about eight signings across the last six transfer windows at this point? For a team that badly needed to rebuild, that's a ridiculous lack of activity.