Our technical level, what do you make of it?

[Fortitude]

I struggle to get my head around players not being able to pass 5m-15m between themselves, completely irrespective of formation and system played. The amount of unforced errors made in basic passing chains and the reluctance to pass forward and between the lines - do you think that's a confidence issue, or legitimate technical one?

What's your take on the technical level of us as a first team and as a squad?

 

[BlahRules]

When the team is to train to only pass sideways to keep possession and only wait to counter attack after soaking in the attacking pressure. It will hamper the players playing an attacking play and looking to pass forward. Hopefully, after 2 months they should be able to play better and if not then should be shipped.

 

[kidbob]

I struggle to get my head around players not being able to pass 5m-15m between themselves, completely irrespective of formation and system played. The amount of unforced errors made in basic passing chains and the reluctance to pass forward and between the lines - do you think that's a confidence issue, or legitimate technical one?

What's your take on the technical level of us as a first team and as a squad?

"I think that every manager we have had since SAF has been absolutely shit and tactically awful, but I somehow can't understand how the players are so bad and under-coached". It's almost like if they played against you and me they would be technically excellent but they are also playing against pro players. If you think the coaching has been shit since SAF then the answer already exists in your head. You just have to take the time to find it.

 

[Pexbo]

It goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. As you say we often struggle on a basic level but then sometimes it’s like a switch is flipped and we suddenly string together 10 quick one touch passes, with back heels and flicks around corners which proves what they are capable of. Consistency is the issue.

 

[harms]

Average for a top team? The issue is that our worst offenders are really horrible. At this point we're too disjointed to judge us properly. We also have different kind of players — a lot of them have their technique fitted for a quick & direct vertical football (Bruno, Cristiano, Pogba, Greenwood, Rashford) but can struggle in a more possession-based set up.

Sancho, Mata* and Diallo are players whose technique is actually well-suited for high-technical football with a lot of one-twos etc. I'm talking purely about technique though, all of them have other issues, some more than others.

*if you even count him as a footballer at this point.

 

[hobbers]

Our technical level is a lot higher when the likes of AWB and Lingard aren't involved in the moves.

 

[alanjohnson]

It became the norm, perfectly acceptable with no consequences, for a player to mentally and physically discover a new ability to kick a ball bent and get paid obscene amounts of money (eg pogba).
They clearly can pass, but they're just not mentally in it at all. they don't care.
The job of the manager is to weed out such players, but these days they're afraid of the players and know they have the power to sack a manager by not performing.

An example of this was when van gaal came in, the team was passing the ball about well, but they'd get the ball to Rooney and he would just disintegrate. The knock on effect was that the rest of the team just didn't care to bother anymore. Rooney was not going to get dropped by van gaal who feared rooney's influence. He decided to flex his weight about by bullying depay, van persie, dimaria. Joe mourinho got rid of rooney but then signed pogba who became the new wayne rooney. long story short, ole just wasn't cut throat with the squad, nor could he motivate them.

 

[Dominos]

It's so frustrating to watch the amount of basic errors we make in possession. I wish football had an "unforced errors" stat like they do in tennis so we could compare ourselves to the top teams.

It's forgivable to lose the ball when the opposition has forced the error, or we've had to play in difficult situations, or we've tried something creative and it's not come off. What I can't understand is players messing up a 5 yard pass under basically no pressure so consistently, every time we get the ball it's a countdown clock until one of our players does something unbelievably stupid to give it away. People like to blame AWB, Fred and Mctominay as if they're the only culprits. Go watch how frequently the likes of Sancho, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno, Matic, Maguire gift the ball to the opposition, and these are meant to be our best players.

Frequency of mistakes is often what separates top teams from the rest. All teams give the ball away cheaply, but it comes down to frequency. If we can cut out these basic errors by even 50% it makes such a massive difference, we'll get more attacking transitions, make more chances, our defence will be under less pressure, we'll give away less set pieces, we'll sustain more attacks, the opposition will have less opportunities to counter.

Coaches can definitely make a difference to how a team passes the ball overall. Leeds went from bottom half of the championship to one of the better footballing sides in the premier in 2 years when Bielsa came in. I don't think Tuchel has transformed the technical ability of his players in his time at Chelsea, but they sure as hell pass the ball a lot better than did before he arrived. If Ralf can give the team a structure and guidance in and out of possession then you'd hope we may start to look like a completely different team in the same way Chelsea have.

One thing I do notice is how little understanding our players seem to have with each other. Player runs in behind and pass goes short to feet. Pass goes in behind and player has come short for the pass to feet..

 

[sugar_kane]

We have a weird propensity to under hit passes, especially short ones - it’s just bizarre at this level.

It’s one thing not being able to put the right weight on a through ball, but it’s crazy how bad at the basics we are sometimes. It just seems to be a critical lack of focus.

 

[Waynne]

I struggle to get my head around players not being able to pass 5m-15m between themselves, completely irrespective of formation and system played. The amount of unforced errors made in basic passing chains and the reluctance to pass forward and between the lines - do you think that's a confidence issue, or legitimate technical one?

What's your take on the technical level of us as a first team and as a squad?

Years and years of tactical ineptitude with Ole has set in a sort of mental rot with these players. Everyone looks for the safe option and even then they can't execute that correctly on a consistent basis. No one able to think on their feet because there was no plan from the start. Just go out and enjoy yourselves.

Ralf will need a lot more time to sort out this mess so either he takes the time to coach it out of them or he'll bring in new players who fit the style he wants to play. Either way 6 months is nowhere near long enough to get his desired results.

I've said from the start that 6 months is way too short a term for this guy. He should be signed up for at least 2 seasons and then pass it on to another manager once he has the team playing exactly the way he wants them to.
Things will start going well and I can see the board extending Ralf's contract for at least another season and I really won't object to that.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Attention spans need fixing.

 

[acnumber9]

I do wonder if a lot of it comes down to fitness. Technical level can fall off a cliff with tiredness.

 

[izec]

It was tolerated for years, since van Gaal we didnt care about possession and passing. It is mostly a matter of training and focus on this level. Sure, some players lack the technical ability, but most are fine. But you need to train the basics. Our players look like strangers out there, for years.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I’d say our passing speed and accuracy is low for the level of club we are - not to make this another Ole bashing thread but I do think this all stems from being a bit lax on the training ground. I’d also argue none of our players have really developed technically - I hope that’s about to change because we have a lot of talent.

One reason I actually have grown to like Lindelof is he’s one of the few players we have who properly zip the ball when they pass. If we can increase our ball recycling which in turn will make us become more press resistant, it’ll make a massive difference.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I struggle to get my head around players not being able to pass 5m-15m between themselves, completely irrespective of formation and system played. The amount of unforced errors made in basic passing chains and the reluctance to pass forward and between the lines - do you think that's a confidence issue, or legitimate technical one?

What's your take on the technical level of us as a first team and as a squad?

They’ve been coached by a League 1 / Championship level coaching team for 3 years. It’s gonna have an effect on the technical level (more than anything else).

 

[Isotope]

Those fancy flicks even by our young players which most of the time make us lose ball possession. There is something rotten to the core within our coaching setup.

 

[Abraxas]

Well, it didn't look so bad against Palace.

I think tonight was more about familiarity. Just a complete lack of understanding, nerves, lack of fitness as it progressed. It's fairly known that randomly thrown together sides usually struggle technically.

Ultimately we're talking about fringe players and a bunch of youngsters that could go either way.

 

[Dominos]

Well, it didn't look so bad against Palace.

By elite team standards it did.

I remember the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half, I counted 6 basic errors in possession from minute 45 to minute 47. It was almost comical.

 

[Abraxas]

By elite team standards it did.

I remember the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half, I counted 6 basic errors in possession from minute 45 to minute 47. It was almost comical.

We're not an elite side so that is expected. Are we elite in any single department? Probably not, depending on the definition of elite. We'd have been doing a lot better if we were. We're a good side on paper and probably a good side overall with an adept manager but we're not elite and haven't been for a decade so it's no surprise our technical level falls within that category.

The manager has his work cut out to rectify all the technical errors. Everybody said it was all to do with coaching but I think fair minded observers knew that was an absolute crock. If we can get a way of playing it is going to help to make them look better technically than under Ole, but I don't think RR has a wand. We have to hope that with a few smart acquisitions and a setup that suits us we can cover the holes quickly.

 

[Oranges038]

It's the basics stuff that is annoying.

Body position being wrong
No awareness of what's around
First touches being taken the wrong way
Or just really poor first touches
The choice and quality of the passing - it's mostly scruffy / bobbly ones - you very rarely see passes being zipped into feet.


Overall, it just looks really poor.

 

[BluesJr]

This new coaching setup will fix it. It’ll annoy Rangnick more than anyone.

 

[cyril C]

I struggle to get my head around players not being able to pass 5m-15m between themselves, completely irrespective of formation and system played. The amount of unforced errors made in basic passing chains and the reluctance to pass forward and between the lines - do you think that's a confidence issue, or legitimate technical one?

What's your take on the technical level of us as a first team and as a squad?

If you look at the 1st 20min in both games, short passing was good, probably due to better positioning and more cohesive formation. If you look at final 20min of both games, Academy players are not good enough, more work required. 1st team + fringe players need to work on physical, nothing we can do right now until summer.

There are some isolated examples that may reflect on ability of individual players. AWB is simply awful on ball control and passing (& crossing as well), so this may come down to training and technique. Maguire panic when under pressure, could be a technique and confidence thing. Lingard can't get his timing right on passing, this may be due to his tendency to run and finish, never thought/train on passing aspect. Amad made a mess on that attack, could be due to experience. VDB made a few errors on mis-pass, under pressure or not. I don't doubt the technique of dutch players as they have decent academy training, so perhaps experience to play under pressure & different environment/system.

 

[432JuanMata]

By elite team standards it did.

I remember the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half, I counted 6 basic errors in possession from minute 45 to minute 47. It was almost comical.

Unfortunately bringing in a technical style when you lack the quality in CM is going to be hard.

 

[Daengophile]

It goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. As you say we often struggle on a basic level but then sometimes it’s like a switch is flipped and we suddenly string together 10 quick one touch passes, with back heels and flicks around corners which proves what they are capable of. Consistency is the issue.

Ralf's new head reader has some work to do

 

[Suedesi]

I struggle to get my head around players not being able to pass 5m-15m between themselves, completely irrespective of formation and system played. The amount of unforced errors made in basic passing chains and the reluctance to pass forward and between the lines - do you think that's a confidence issue, or legitimate technical one?

What's your take on the technical level of us as a first team and as a squad?

I've wondered that myself - some of the short passing is inaccurate and underhit, which slows down moves unnecessarily. I hope the new coaching regime can address it.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It became the norm, perfectly acceptable with no consequences, for a player to mentally and physically discover a new ability to kick a ball bent and get paid obscene amounts of money (eg pogba).
They clearly can pass, but they're just not mentally in it at all. they don't care.
The job of the manager is to weed out such players, but these days they're afraid of the players and know they have the power to sack a manager by not performing.

An example of this was when van gaal came in, the team was passing the ball about well, but they'd get the ball to Rooney and he would just disintegrate. The knock on effect was that the rest of the team just didn't care to bother anymore. Rooney was not going to get dropped by van gaal who feared rooney's influence. He decided to flex his weight about by bullying depay, van persie, dimaria. Joe mourinho got rid of rooney but then signed pogba who became the new wayne rooney. long story short, ole just wasn't cut throat with the squad, nor could he motivate them.

Huh?

 

[alanjohnson]

Huh?

it wasnt hard to understand, unless you're mentally challenged.

 

[diarm]

I think a lot of the issues in our squad come down to mentality, focus and concentration.

We have undoubtedly talented players, who do incredible stupid things, or make ridiculous mistakes at silly times. When we are up against it, or if we're on the back of a string of poor results, we can pull out performances where everyone is totally focused and on it. But when they're up against a side they think they're better than, or if we go a goal up early, so many of our players can switch off and make basic passing, controlling or defensive mistakes that pro footballers should never be making.

See Wan-Bissaka utterly switching off for their goal last night, and then Van de Beek not looking at him properly before passing the ball. That sort of shite happens 5 or 6 times a game for us, where it might happen once every two games for decent, focused sides.

This sports psychologist might end up being as important a hire as Rangnick himself - although he's going to be so busy trying to motivate Martial into doing so much as tying his own boot laces, I doubt he'll have much time for the rest of the squad.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

it wasnt hard to understand, unless you're mentally challenged.

It’s a rather weak leap you’ve made to find some way to criticise Pogba when our midfield has someone likes of McTominay [& to a lesser extent Fred] in it. It’s ‘become the norm & perfectly acceptable’ for people to use any thread to bash certain players. You even spoil a somewhat decent take on the Rooney situation with your rather misplaced distain for the two.

Back to the thread at hand, there are multiple criticisms that can be thrown at Pogba besides the nonsensical post you made.

 

[Blood Mage]

Pretty average. Sancho and Pogba are the only players we have with world class technical ability IMO. Maybe Mata too but his legs have gone so he doesn't count.

 

[wolvored]

You can see using one example: Bruno. When he came he was a breath of fresh air. His passing linking goals and assists were off the charts. That was due to proper coaching by his former club. 2 years later, most of his passing is wild. His goals and assists have slowly dried up. This is 2 years of bad coaching. I'm sure by Feb with a couple of months proper coaching you will see a gradual return to the Bruno of 2 years ago. You can change Bruno for any player here.

 

[RoyH1]

They didn't get here to this level by being crap technically. It's the lack of coaching fundamentals we've had for some time now. I expect them to look a lot better in some time

 

[Joseunited]

Let's give this team a couple of months to bed in under Ralph before we decide if we're good enough technically or not.
Having said that I'm optimistic that we'll look like a completely different team 10 games from now.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It's part and parcel of RR's style with it being high octane and 'vertical'. Obviously we can do better than we did against Young Boys but we haven't signed Pep here. If you're expecting controlled football then I think you'll be disappointed.

 

[In Rainbows]

Pretty average. Sancho and Pogba are the only players we have with world class technical ability IMO. Maybe Mata too but his legs have gone so he doesn't count.

Greenwood has great technique too. Only thing he lacks technically is ball manipulation technique, which those 2 have. Although not really getting game time, Amad and Hannibal are also there with Sancho.

 

[Lentwood]

The technical level is fine for the most part, it's tactical structure and organisation we have lacked

 

[jackal&hyde]

A few players are way bellow standard imo, AWB comes to mind but also McTom and Fred are average at best.

 

[Ace of Spades]

The technical level is fine and using this game which was filled with players who had not played a lot or young players or both is hardly an indication of their ability. Sure some players are not good enough, but overall the players need a structure to perform.

You see it all the time when some of these players playing for top teams go to their NTs and look bang average, because it is a different coach, different set up and playing style, and different teammates.

With better coaching I expect a lot of them to improve.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Our technical level is a lot higher when the likes of AWB and Lingard aren't involved in the moves.

This. For the last 5-6 years, it has blown my mind quite how many of our moves simply end as soon as Lingard gets a touch of the football. It's like he wants to play pass and move all the time, without being able to pass and always moving in the wrong direction.

 

[Bestietom]

Fred and McTominay in Midfield and Rashford up front are the ones who lose the ball most. None of them can pass the ball 5 yards without it going astray.