P&G Draft - QF: Isotope vs Tuppet

With players at their career peak, who would win?


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Physiocrat

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Isotope

Wing-play, attractive, and passion. This team has it all. As the reds go marching on, the team is capable of quick transition to attack as quickly as possible. The players in midfield and attack make it possible to have varieties of use the pace of wingers to run with the ball or try an explosive counter-attack with two or three passes.

When attacking, my team relied on two of the best wingers in a business (G. Best & R. Giggs), a striker that knew where the back of the net was (RvP), and two tireless central midfielders who were comfortable when both creating and defending (B. Charlton & B. Robson).

With a variety of goalscorers, RvP, Charlton, Best, and Giggs; my team will always score.

On defence, rock solid back four of D. Irwin – R. Ayala – M. Sammer - C. Gentile were known for their hard-tackling, ruthless defending, and discipline in defense. The Juventus legend, S. Tacconi, was the last in line. Worth to mention that both Ayala and Sammer were ball playing centerbacks who could fasten the play when needed. Screening the defense was the tireless fighter S. Pluskal, with the help from Robbo & Charlton, and the underrated defending ability of Giggs.

With tight defence and tireless midfielders, this team will dominate the game. With stockpile of flair and creative attackers in the team, they will always score. Anyway, not much more to write about anymore, just enjoy the show.

Tuppet

We are playing a standard 4-2-3-1 with a direct playing style and a moderate defensive line.

My team is built to get the best out of our two outstanding players in the field.

Beckenbauer -
Surrounded by with 3 great defenders and 2 DMs in front to give him "Libero" role, free to run the game from back. I don't want him to man mark anyone here but he is too good a defender to not make my team's defense a fortress. In possession he'll move forward and my full backs would stay back.

Di Stefano -
Given the platform to affect every phase of the game. With two midfielders behind him, he'll make runs to the box and help in scoring. He is the main playmaker for us but now has Kaiser to share the burden. He has three prolific Hungarians in front of him to provide assists as well as Kocsis to knock down balls for him to score.

Stopping Best -
Bossis clearly has a tough job, but he is one of the best defensive fullbacks and one of the few who can limit Best's threat. He also has support on that side from Dave Mackay who Best described as - "My hardest opponent and certainly the bravest". Czibor was an incredibly hard worker on the wing and someone who ran the whole flank by himself. It won't be easy but combine all this and its a pretty solid setup to limit Best.

Stopping Sir Bobby -
Its tempting to just put Beckenbauer on him but it seem waste of his talent esp when I have a perfect player to face Charlton in Bremner.

Bremner seem severely underrated from the first match, but his Leeds went toe to toe with Charlton's United in 60s and more than held their own. As the AM & DM for their teams Charlton and Bremner directly faced each other. During their careers Leeds & United clashed 23 times in league & FA cup and Leeds won 9, Drew 11 and lost 3 times. And that United was a strong team with Best, Charlton & Law. This is not a small sample size and those matches were important and full of pressure. One example is shown here with Bremner providing the winner while also helping to hold United goalless in FA cup semifinal -


Edge -
I think my team has a significant edge in goalscoring. In Kocsis I have a much better striker whose record is on par with the likes of Muller & MVB. Playing along with Czibor with whom he had a telepathic understanding also elevates his threat. Di Stefano is a far better goal scorer than Charlton in that role. A Kocsis-Di Stefano partnership has much more goals in it than Charlton-RVP.

Profiles -
Bene
Bergmark
 

idmanager

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This new sub forum thing comes at a wrong time for Isotope.
Put this on the front page and the game is over before it starts :lol:
 

Tuppet

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The first thing that obviously jumps at me is the use of Sammer here. AFAIK he has never played in a back 4, here are some of the famous line ups he was part of -

Euro 1992 final -



Euro 1996 final -



Champions league 1997 final -



Its always either in 5 person backline with two stoppers beside him or in midfield. The problem here than gets worse as he is partnered with another ball playing center back in Ayala. Sammer strength whenever I have watched the game was always his ability to break lines and attack more than his defensive prowess and in Iso's setup I feel he is either not going to do that or cause big gaps behind him in defense.
 

Isotope

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Sammer position is alright. Here he's sandwiched by two tough tackling defenders. I don't know why Ayala's ball playing capacity is seen as negative trait. He's famous as tough defender, with good ball playing skill. Irwin himself is a balance leftback, who's good in defending and attacking.
 

Enigma_87

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Sammer is in his zone here really. A perfect set up for him- a tucked in RB/CB in Gentile, complete CB in Ayala and Pluskal/Robbo platform to protect the defence in is forays.

I'd only probably switch Pluskal and Robbo as it would further highlight Pluskal covering the zone/space left from Sammer.
 

Physiocrat

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Sammer position is alright. Here he's sandwiched by two tough tackling defenders. I don't know why Ayala's ball playing capacity is seen as negative trait. He's famous as tough defender, with good ball playing skill. Irwin himself is a balance leftback, who's good in defending and attacking.
Agreed. Sammer sandwich between two tough defenders is fine. I really don't see Ayala as sweeperish CB at all - he could pass a bit but more of a stopper.

Now it's hardly the tallest CB pairing which could be an issue against Kocsis.
 

Tuppet

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Billy Bremner seem pretty underrated from first match, so here's a little profile on him. I didn't get then why everyone believed he is a class below the likes of Souness & Robson.

Billy Bremner


Mick Jones said:
I think he was one of the greatest captains there has ever been in the Football League
Jack Charlton said:
Number one greatest player of all time? I’ll go along with that.
Eddie Gray said:
Billy played more with his heart than his head. He had a heart the size of Elland Road. As a midfield player, he was a free spirit who worked on instinct
John Arlott Guardian football columnist said:
Above all Leeds have Bremner, the best footballer in the four countries, if every manager in Britain were given his choice of any one player to add to his team some, no doubt, would toy with the idea of George Best; but the realists, to a man, would have Bremner.
Charlie Nicholas said:
His determination and love of the game made him such a difficult opponent. He could tackle, score goals and spray passes all over. That Leeds team would play 30 or 40 passes without an opponent touching the ball. Billy Bremner was some player.
Allan Clarke said:
When Billy Bremner took us across the white line, whether it was at Elland Road or Anfield or Old Trafford,Stamford Bridge, those players, my team, we died for Leeds United we died for that club...Billy was the best player who ever played, they don't make players like him today.
and one from the man himself -
Billy Bremner said:
Every time Leeds concede a goal I feel like I've been stabbed in the heart.
During his tenure as a Leeds player between 1960 and 1976, Bremner played 773 times for the Whites and became one of the icons – along with Johnny Giles, Eddie Gray, Peter Lorimer and others – of the most successful period in the club’s history.
With so many great players in the squad, it’s remarkable that Bremner kept the captain’s armband for 11 years between 1965 and 1976. And his record reflect that he achieved all the success there was to achieve.

‘Never say die’ attitude

The title of Billy Bremner’s autobiography is “Keep Fighting”, and legend has it this was the inscription on a sign above the Scot’s peg in the Leeds players’ dressing room at Elland Road. Another of Bremner’s motto was “you get nowt for being second”, which highlights his drive to win.

Domestically -
And win Bremner did, for Leeds united he won the league 2 times and the FA cup once. There were countless heartbreaks and they finished second in the league 5 times, once level on the points with Manchester United of Charlton-Law-Best and finished second on goal difference. As I mentioned in OP he went toe to toe with that great United side and not only held his own but helped his team to a great record against that great United team.

European competition
It wasn't different in continent either, Bremner's Leeds was known for being giant killers in Europe. Bremner's Leeds famously beat the Barcelona of Neeskens & Cruyff in European cup semifinal 1975 -


They also won Fairs cup (Precursor to UEFA cup) twice in 1968 & 1970 beating likes of Juventus on the way.

Internationally -
While not playing for a big footballing club, Bremner nonetheless left his mark on world cup 1974. Ejected in the first round without losing a game his performance against Brazil or Rivellino & Jairzinho earned him a lot of praise particularly from Pele. Kicker magazine held a survey among 67 sports journalists about the best players of the 1974 World Cup. Each journalist was asked to rank the six best players. Based on that, "kicker" used an inverted points system to compile the list of the best players. Kicker published the vote of each journalist and the final overall result.

Overall result

Code:
01 Cruyff – 372
02 Beckenbauer – 278
03 Deyna – 175
04 Neeskens – 120
05 Oblak – 46
06 Lato – 37
07 Pereira – 35
08 Bremner – 32
09 Babington – 28
10 Hoeness – 27
Getting picked as the 8th best player of the tournament where your team has been ousted in the first round shows how good that performance was -
Brazil vs Scotland

Goals
People often refer to Giles as the skilful foil to Bremner’s fighting spirit, but that does the Scot a disservice.

Bremner was the complete midfielder. He was a great passer, he was quick, and strong (despite his small stature). He also had bags of energy that, combined with unrelenting determination to win, allowed him to run across every blade of grass during a 90-minute match. Bremner also had an eye for goal – he hit the back of the net at total of 115 times for Leeds, which makes him fifth on the club’s all-time goal-scorers’ list.


His performances in Europe and Internationally also get him the recognition in prestigious Ballon D'or award, where he was represented 3 times and finished in top 10 twice -

1973 Ballon D'or
Code:
1    Johan Cruyff
2    Dino Zoff
3    Gerd Müller
4    Franz Beckenbauer
5    Billy Bremner
6    Kazimierz Deyna
7    Eusébio
8    Gianni Rivera
1974 Ballon D'or
Code:
1    Johan Cruyff
2    Franz Beckenbauer
3    Kazimierz Deyna
4    Paul Breitner
5    Johan Neeskens
6    Grzegorz Lato
7    Gerd Müller
8    Robert Gadocha
9    Billy Bremner
From those lists you can also see that this was a particularly strong era and he had to compete with some of the bona-fide greats of football. In 1974 as per the Ballon D'or ratings he was the best midfielder in the world.

Bremner was a legitimate great of the British football and should be remembered as such. I have no doubt that he more than holds his own in the current midfield battle.
 

Tuppet

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I wouldn't want to bang on the same drum too much but I don't agree with Sammer's positioning at all. He literally never played the role he has been asked to play here, which is being one of the two center backs. Gentile being a defensive RB helps but Sammer was a different player to say a Scirea or Passarella or even Beckenbauer to play that role.

He started as midfielder and is more closely resembled by Matthaus if anything (who also became Sweeper). He moved deeper in defense as time passed since he was really good at breaking forward and shielding the defense. This was sort of common in elite midfielders like Matthaus & Gullit did the same. That sweeper role was more defensive midfielders than a modern center back.

You might argue that Beckenbauer also started as a midfielder but at his peak Beckenbauer played in a back 4 and was just a much better defender than Sammer.
 
Last edited:

Isotope

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Anyway. Enough about negativity. Let's enjoy the magnificent play of Best.
 

Isotope

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Agreed. Sammer sandwich between two tough defenders is fine. I really don't see Ayala as sweeperish CB at all - he could pass a bit but more of a stopper.

Now it's hardly the tallest CB pairing which could be an issue against Kocsis.
Agreed that he's not the tallest. Although, I checked that their height and weight is similar, 177 cm and 73 kg. Ayala himself wasn't Bailly, in terms of heading. And Kocsis supply would be "limited" as Czibor would be against Gentile, one of the best defender when one on one.

Sammer is in his zone here really. A perfect set up for him- a tucked in RB/CB in Gentile, complete CB in Ayala and Pluskal/Robbo platform to protect the defence in is forays.

I'd only probably switch Pluskal and Robbo as it would further highlight Pluskal covering the zone/space left from Sammer.
That's a legitimate concern. The reason Robbo is on the right side, is to support Best in attack, because Gentile would be more conservative on attacking/supporting that right side.
 

Isotope

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:drool:
Impossible to argue against :mad:
Yeh, thank you, sir. I'm pretty satisfied with the team I build. The most satisfying team I've ever drafted.

And it's hard to criticize your team also. Our quality in sum is similar. I don't see anything wrong with your players and their positions. I'd say my defence is a bit better overall, but then yours have the Kaiser which is a god. My midfield is better in general (with me having 2 GOATS there) but then yours have better striker(s).

Anyway, you fellow west coast. Where you at?
 

Tuppet

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Yeh, thank you, sir. I'm pretty satisfied with the team I build. The most satisfying team I've ever drafted.

And it's hard to criticize your team also. Our quality in sum is similar. I don't see anything wrong with your players and their positions. I'd say my defence is a bit better overall, but then yours have the Kaiser which is a god. My midfield is better in general (with me having 2 GOATS there) but then yours have better striker(s).

Anyway, you fellow west coast. Where you at?
Yeah its a pretty great team, would be a very interesting match that.
Oh nice ! you are in west coast as well, I live in Washington state.
 

Tuppet

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While I don't have a Best, Bene was an amazing dribbler & crosser as well. And with an incredible scoring record - (303 goals in 417 for clubs & 36 goals in 76 appearance for NT). I did a full profile of him here -

Do take a look at this video, its pretty long but its really good and you can watch it in pieces, really shows his fantastic dribbling and speed -

 

Tuppet

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@Isotope @Tuppet

Have you got anything on your keepers? This is pretty tight
Yeah Sure.

Enrico Albertosi was GK for Italy and was a rival for Dino Zoff. His one big claim to fame was the fact the he forced his way into Italian team for 1970 world cup over Zoff. Zoff was previously GK for Italy in Euro 1968. Albertosi was selected based on a brilliant season in Serie A where he won the league with Cagliari (Their first and only league win so far). He had a great tournament, leading his team to final and only falling to the Brazil 70 team.

His other achievements include winning the European CWC in 1961, Mitropa cup in 1966 & Copa Italia in 1961 & 1966 with Fiorentina. He is rated as one of the greatest Italian goalkeepers ever and was selected 5th best Italian GK in IFFHS century elections.

From http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/iffhs-century.html
Code:
Italy - Keeper of the Century

 1.Dino Zoff              373
 2.Giampiero Combi         49
 3.Walter Zenga            18
 4.Angelo Peruzzi          13
 5.Enrico Albertosi        12
 6.Gianluca Pagliuca       10
 7.Giulano Sarti            7
 8.Lorenzo Buffon           3
For a country like Italy which has been blessed in defensive and GK positions, that is really high and would have been higher if he was not rivaling great Dino Zoff for a starting birth in Italian team. I am confident that he is easily better keeper than Tacconi.

For more info here is a fairly large article -

ALBERTOSI Enrico: the artist among the posts




When he took to the Ardenza Ardenza to play his first Serie A game, Ricky Albertosi had just turned nineteen, he had been bought by La Spezia and he had put himself in a good position to learn everything that could be learned from a great teacher like Giuliano Sarti, then twenty-six. It was May 18, 1959, was scheduled Rome-Fiorentina and the viola, in the standings, chasing only one point behind the Milan leaders, who played - among others - with Buffon, Liedholm, Maldini, Galli, Schiaffino and Grillo. For a disqualification of the field imposed by the League, the game would be played in Livorno and Albertosi, all of a sudden, was thrown in, for a slight indisposition of which remained a victim Sarti.

Ricky Albertosi was about to arguehis first match in Serie A. It was 0-0, a result at that time decidedly unusual. And Nicolò Carosio, already famous commentator and also appreciated journalist of "Il Calcio e il Ciclismo Illustrato", commented on the pages of the stupendous weekly sports magazine in Rome: "No purple feast with Rome, but a good first half, a rather opaque second, and zero to the passive above all thanks to the nineteen-year-old goalkeeper Albertosi, debutant, born in Pontremoli and coming from the ranks of La Spezia. At the end of the game - Carosio went on - the excellent Albertosi, who in transmission had made us feel emotions, vertigo, amazement, so daring, so plastic and sure they had been many of his interventions, appeared like any at the end of a common working day. Nothing excited, not moved at all, he looked amazed at all those people who looked after him, who celebrated him, who wished him not to end up with a brilliant and profitable career ». It was the sixteenth day of the 58-59 championship and the first official appearance of Albertosi in Serie A.

The first goal immediately, for the boy from Pontremoli,he arrived eight days later, in Fiorentina-Napoli 4-1. The left wing Petris had already gone to the net for the viola after only 7 minutes of play, but the fifteenth, with a right flattened shot from a few meters within the area, Luis Vinicio - Neapolitan striker - gave the purple goalkeeper the very first displeasure of his career. Another striker - the sampdoriano Milani - pierced Albertosi for the second time, on a free kick, on the occasion of the third game played in A by the young Tuscan goalkeeper. But even on that occasion Fiorentina won the match for 4 goals in 1 and, indeed, reached Milan in first place, even if - at the end of the season - the Rossoneri won the Scudetto with three points ahead of opponents.



During the 58-59 championship, his first tournament, Ricky Albertosi replaced Giuliano Sarti for five times, conceding five goals overall. His first defeat took place on 22 March, in Turin, during the twenty-fourth Sunday of the championship, due exclusively to Omar Sivori, the "cabezon". The Argentinean - with a company to say the least memorable - arrested alone the triumphal march Fiorentina leaders, scoring to Albertosi something like 3 goals, and allowing the Juventus to win the match for 3 goals to 2 (goals some viola brought the signature of the Gratton interior). And the first injury, again for Ricky, came to four Sundays from the end, to interrupt his first, very promising championship, over Genoa-Fiorentina, which ended 0-0. At 42 'of the first half, in a clash with Macaccaro,

Milan, as mentioned, at the end of the seasonwon the Scudetto and Fiorentina was only second. In purple jersey, Albertosi remained ten years. His first championship as a starter, Ricky competed only in 63-64, but was so appreciated that - despite the "coverage" of Sarti - was called to wear the national jersey on June 15, 1961, just in Florence, Italy- Argentina 4-1. At that time, the holder of the blue shirt was Buffon, Inter. But the then Technical Commissioner of the Italian team, Giovanni Ferrari, wanted to reward the champion of Pontremoli who, also, in the league almost never played; and he called him to defend the door of the blue team which, in front of him, deployed Robotti and Benito Sarti; Bolchi, Losi and Trapattoni; Mora, Lojacono, Brighenti, Sivori and Corso. Argentina was defeated without problems,

Albertosi went to Chile, but only as a third goalkeeper.At the World Championships - however unlucky - they played two games Buffon and a Mattrel. And Ricky, after two years of intermezzo spent under the sign of William «Carburo» Negri, returned to the blue shirt March 13, 1965, in Hamburg, during Germany-Italy 1-1, the day when he replaced the same Negri . For two years, Ricky had finally conquered Fiorentina's number 1 shirt, and by now he had also booked the National one, while - in great strides - he was already heading for the World Championships in England. Inhabitable World Cup: Italy began well by beating Chile (tremendous revenge), continued badly losing against Russia and ended miserably, 1-0 defeat by North Korea, in the game that would have to open the doors of the quarter. Curious detail: the race played at Ayresome Park in Middlesbrough with Korea, for Ricky Albertosi was - in blue - the number 13 ... And Albertosi - even without specific faults - thus passed to history as one of the eleven «Koreans», the blue goalkeeper who had to collect the ball thrown at the bottom of the bag by the sergeant-dentist Pak Doo Ik. In short: a shame!



Naturally, when he resumed the blue activitythe colossal «scourge» post-Corsa did not spare anyone, or almost. Of the eleven "guilty", only Facchetti, Guarneri and Mazzola remain in the team, and Ricky Albertosi is replaced by none other than Giuliano Sarti, his master of a time now passed to the great Inter. The turnover is short-lived. In fact, Dino Zoff and Albertosi were soon back in contention for the number 1 jersey, and in Rome - at the European Championships in '68 - it was the Napoli goalkeeper to take the field and take away the satisfaction of redeeming Italian football in the famous double final with Yugoslavia, the first equalized for 1-1, the second won by 2-0. Immediately after the conclusion of the European Championships, Albertosi - from ten years to Fiorentina - was bought by Cagliari, Riva's team

By one of those jokes that often the fate plays in football, as soon Albertosi abandon the purple shirt, Fiorentina won the league title. It's the 68-69 season. For Albertosi, however, the great ransom comes just the year after, in the 69-70 season. The Cagliari, in the championship that is a prelude to the World Championships in Mexico City, is not wrong almost nothing, going to win a memorable championship, thanks to the contribution of world-class players such as Cera, Domenghini, Gigi Riva and, of course, Albertosi, who to conquer the first championship of his career, also establishes the record of the fewest number of goals suffered in a 16-team league: only 11.

When indeed, at the end of the season, Cagliari wins in Turin, against the grenade, even for 4 goals to 0, the only players who can boast of having pierced the goalkeeper Cagliari are Facchin (Vicenza, 2. day), Suarez (Inter, 6. day), Cuccureddu (Juventus, 9. day), Troja (Palermo, 12. day), Prati (Milan, 14. day), Vitali (Vicenza, 17. day), Boninsegna (Inter, 21 day), Peirò (Rome, 23. day) and Anastasi (Juventus, 24. day). Anastasi has beaten Albertosi from eleven meters, and these nine athletes are also added teammates Domenghini and - inevitable - Niccolai, protagonists of unfortunate autoreti respectively to the 10. day (in Verona) and to 24. (in Turin with Juventus) . In short: in 30 league matches, Albertosi complains only 11 goals conceded, two of which on an own goal and one on a penalty kick. Even on four occasions is beaten in the last few minutes of play (are the goals of Facchin, Cuccureddu, Vitali and Boninsegna) and only in Turin, against Juventus, Ricky collects more than one goal (to be exact two). An authentic company, which serves Cagliari to close victoriously at 45, with four points ahead of Inter and 7 on Juventus, the two big disappointed in the championship.



The sensational performance of Albertosiit can not go unnoticed in the blue shirt. The World Championships in Mexico City are on their doorstep and Albertosi, on the wings of the success achieved in Cagliari, has recently regained the position in the national team, to the detriment of Zoff. The goalkeeper of Pontremoli is about to turn 31, is at the height of his technical-athletic maturity and is about to play his third World Championship, the second from the holder. After the reversals, more or less resounding, of the World Cup in Chile and England, the Blues are preparing to embark on this Mexican adventure with some apprehension. Without enthusiasm, they cut the finish line of the quarterfinals closing the first three games unbeaten and inviolate (Albertosi does not suffer nets and Domenghini gives us the network of victory against Sweden). Then they get 4-1 to Mexico, the historic 4-3 to the Germany of Beckenbauer (with Schnellinger who mocks Albertosi at 90 'and our goalkeeper who covers him with insults, only to repeat himself, a few minutes later, at the address of the unfortunate Poletti, entered instead of Rosato and totally unable to put a stop to Gerd Muller) and, finally, the clear and yet debated defeat with Brazil, in a final that sees Italy crash in the second half, and Carlos Alberto, Jairzinho and his companions present undisturbed in front of a completely Albertosi helpless. Against Brazil, at the Azteca stadium, Ricky Albertosi plays his twenty seventh race in blue. entered in place of Rosato and completely unable to put a stop to Gerd Muller) and, finally, the clear and yet debated defeat with Brazil, in a final that sees Italy crash in the second half, and Carlos Alberto, Jairzinho and his companions present undisturbed in front of a completely helpless Albertosi. Against Brazil, at the Azteca stadium, Ricky Albertosi plays his twenty seventh race in blue. entered in place of Rosato and completely unable to put a stop to Gerd Muller) and, finally, the clear and yet debated defeat with Brazil, in a final that sees Italy crash in the second half, and Carlos Alberto, Jairzinho and his companions present undisturbed in front of a completely helpless Albertosi. Against Brazil, at the Azteca stadium, Ricky Albertosi plays his twenty seventh race in blue.

His parenthesis in the National team , now, is running out, and the great Ricky in fact still plays seven matches, including the double and disappointing meeting with Belgium, which marks the elimination of Italy by the Europeans of 72. His latest appearance dated 21 June 1972 and takes place at the Levski Stadium in Sofia, for the friendly Bulgaria-Italy 1-1. He had started playing in blue alongside Mora, Sivori and Corso and ended up playing with Spinosi and Marchetti; Bedin, Rosato and Burgnich; Causio, Mazzola, Anastasi, Capello and Prati. More than eleven years have passed since the day of the debut and now, it is said, Albertosi is old, certainly started on the avenue of the sunset ...

But Albertosi is very young.And in the summer of 1974, at the age of almost 35, the great Ricky was bought by Milan, which after the time of Cudicinì no longer had a successor to measure. At each start of the season it is said that, for Albertosi, it should be the last championship of Serie A, but the great Ricky is stainless, and surprises everyone. It allows the luxury of saving Milan from the first relegation of its history and, finally, ends with a fantastic career beauty winning a Scudetto (which Milan chased for twelve years) to forty years of age, a real record . With the 1979-80 championship and following the involvement in the controversial affair of football-betting, where he was disqualified for two years, the great Ricky steps aside, and leaves the scene. In the ranking of each time for the Serie A appearances,


And a quick video of his goalkeeping -

 

Isotope

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Yeah its a pretty great team, would be a very interesting match that.
Oh nice ! you are in west coast as well, I live in Washington state.
Nice... Went to Seattle a few times. I'm in CA, enjoying the heatwave :lol:.
 

Isotope

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@Isotope @Tuppet

Have you got anything on your keepers? This is pretty tight
Played almost 10 seasons (382 games) for Juventus in the '80s, when they were one of the dog bollox in the world at that era (with players like Platini, Scirea, Boniek, Cabrini, Tardelli, Rossi, etc.). He was the backup to Walter Zenga for Italian NT, which explained his lack of NT games. It was unfair to him though, since a NT manager usually stick to his main Gk, and rarely used the backup.
 

Gio

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@Isotope @Tuppet

Have you got anything on your keepers? This is pretty tight
Both smart £15m picks in this draft I thought.
Played almost 10 seasons (382 games) for Juventus in the '80s, when they were one of the dog bollox in the world at that era (with players like Platini, Scirea, Boniek, Cabrini, Tardelli, Rossi, etc.). He was the backup to Walter Zenga for Italian NT, which explained his lack of NT games. It was unfair to him though, since a NT manager usually stick to his main Gk, and rarely used the backup.
Yeah. Italy have had that situation a few times where they have had a couple of world-class keepers vying for the same spot. In the 1990s there was Peruzzi and Pagliuca and in the 2000s it was Buffon and Toldo. They've also had the rare continuity of top class quality across the position, from Tuppet's Albertosi in the 1960s when Zoff took over and carried it right through to the early 1980s, then Zenga coming to the fore, passing the baton on seamlessly to Pagliuca and Peruzzi and then over to Buffon who has held it ever since. No dicking about with third-rate keepers inbetween times - and Buffon could even afford to get injured for Euro 2000 and still have probably the third best keeper in the world at the time in Toldo come into the sticks.

Tacconi's lack of international recognition only means he wasn't as good as Zenga, but he was still an excellent keeper. Not dissimilar to Shilton and Clemence, where one gets all the international and legacy plaudits, but the other guy was still top quality. Fewer opportunities to play your back-up keeper in the 1980s as well, given the smaller World Cup tournament, the cut-throat qualification for the 8-team Euros, and generally fewer friendlies to work with. But Tacconi was well proven in Europe too as well as in domestic football.
 

idmanager

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Wow that is tough to choose, but I personally would never give the edge to a team with Sammer in a 4 man defense.

I know the usual arguments but for me, he would be a bit of suspect always in a critical position where the utmost dominance over the area would be required which is not what made him the great he was. With Kocsis there, it makes it all the more difficult.

Going for Tuppet although the Jairzinho removal with Bene in is a vote leaker. Depleted an amazing front 6.
 
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Isotope

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Both smart £15m picks in this draft I thought.

Yeah. Italy have had that situation a few times where they have had a couple of world-class keepers vying for the same spot. In the 1990s there was Peruzzi and Pagliuca and in the 2000s it was Buffon and Toldo. They've also had the rare continuity of top class quality across the position, from Tuppet's Albertosi in the 1960s when Zoff took over and carried it right through to the early 1980s, then Zenga coming to the fore, passing the baton on seamlessly to Pagliuca and Peruzzi and then over to Buffon who has held it ever since. No dicking about with third-rate keepers inbetween times - and Buffon could even afford to get injured for Euro 2000 and still have probably the third best keeper in the world at the time in Toldo come into the sticks.

Tacconi's lack of international recognition only means he wasn't as good as Zenga, but he was still an excellent keeper. Not dissimilar to Shilton and Clemence, where one gets all the international and legacy plaudits, but the other guy was still top quality. Fewer opportunities to play your back-up keeper in the 1980s as well, given the smaller World Cup tournament, the cut-throat qualification for the 8-team Euros, and generally fewer friendlies to work with. But Tacconi was well proven in Europe too as well as in domestic football.
Excellent point as usual, Gio. Another point to note, he was replacing Juve god in Gk, which was Dino Zoff. As United experienced it with replacing Schmeichel, it was extremely hard to directly replace a legendary Gk, because eventually the comparison would be made. If the replacement is not up to the standard, he' wouldn't last that long. But this is just based on United case, though.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Late response, but...Pretty even this. Both teams have good fullbacks to cover for opposing wide threats. Sammer's liability in back 4 is getting overblown here. Between Gentile and Ayala, he has enough flexibility to step out if necessary.

Give a slight edge to Iso for midfield, as Charlton is quite underrated in his contribution to midfield and his workrate is so much more than a typical #10. Naturally prone to dropping into left midfield, he dovetails beautifully with Robson moving up and I believe this duo will be more dynamic and tilt the balance despite presence of Di Stefano. I see Iso's midfield creating more chances than Tuppet's.

RvP is quite underwhelming in these stages esp when compared to Kocsis, but he'll have enough predatory sense to put in the winning goal imo.
 

Isotope

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Late response, but...Pretty even this. Both teams have good fullbacks to cover for opposing wide threats. Sammer's liability in back 4 is getting overblown here. Between Gentile and Ayala, he has enough flexibility to step out if necessary.

Give a slight edge to Iso for midfield, as Charlton is quite underrated in his contribution to midfield and his workrate is so much more than a typical #10. Naturally prone to dropping into left midfield, he dovetails beautifully with Robson moving up and I believe this duo will be more dynamic and tilt the balance despite presence of Di Stefano. I see Iso's midfield creating more chances than Tuppet's.

RvP is quite underwhelming in these stages esp when compared to Kocsis, but he'll have enough predatory sense to put in the winning goal imo.
I'd say my fullbacks would handle his wingers better than his on mine.

But Tuppet has a good team, with familiarity between players in attack. I still think my team has more edge, but I'm just biased.
Anyway, good game, @Tuppet .