P&G Draft - R1: Theon vs Ecstatic

With players at their career peak, who would win?


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  • Poll closed .

Physiocrat

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Theon

TACTICS

A balanced and complimentary 3-5-2 designed to get the best out of Diego Maradona. In offence the front three are provided the perfect platform to impact the match, with a midfield filled with leadership/workrate and a world-class defence capable of keeping a clean sheet against any attack.

In possession Maradona provides the focal point, equally capable of running through the opposition or releasing Del Piero, Batigol or Cafu/Marinho with his exquisite passing range. The Argentine boasts the highest peak of any player and elevates the performances of those around him – given the calibre of his supporting cast he should be too hot to handle for the opposition midfield.

WHY WE HAVE THE EDGE:
  • DIVERSE AND RUTHLESS ATTACK – The attacking trio is complimentary and built to get the best out of our star man. Del Piero excelled in Juve’s 3-5-2 and has history dove-tailing with a dominant #10 in Zidane, whilst providing fluidity across the inside left channel. Spearheading the attack is the quintessential #9 in Batistuta – a technical and physical colossus who scored 85 in 117 games during 90’s Serie A and 54 goals in 77 games for Argentina.
  • MIDFIELD PLATFORM FOR MARADONA – In midfield we opted for two industrious warriors to shield the defence and stamp authority across the middle of the park, with Mascherano playing a more restrictive role whilst Bastian expresses himself box-to-box. In Schweinsteiger we have undoubtedly the most complete midfielder of the last decade – the midfield lynchpin who led Bayern to a historic treble and Germany to the ’14 World Cup (with a MOTM virtuoso performance in the final).
  • PROVEN BACK LINE – Two Brazilian fullbacks flank the back three from Juve’s historic run of six Serie A’s in a row and two CL finals in three years. When the dust settles and players start retiring this defence is guaranteed to go down as an all-time great and (for my money) the best of the last 20 years. Achievements in six years include an unbeaten 2011/12 and a record breaking 102 points in 2013/14 (two more than Man City). Across those titles the foundation was a defence which conceded the least number of goals in every single season and never conceded more than 27 goals. In the six years of Chiellini / Bonnuci / Barzagli only one other team ever conceded less than 30 goals (Roma in 13/14) whilst Juve did so in every single one (20, 24, 23, 24, 20, 27). On average during this six year period they conceded one goal every 1.7 games - which is exceptional.
Ecstatic

Striker - SEELER - 1936 - West Germany: 72 caps (43 goals) - 449 Goals/ 549 Games - Ballon d’Or 60: 3rd place
“Uns Uwe” is one of the greatest strikers in the History of the Game: complete forward with a fantastic activity all over the pitch, excellent stats ofc. Šjor Bepo did great videos about him on DailyMotion. This video gives a good overview of his style of player for the posters not familiar with the drafts


Ballon d'Or 1983, 1984, 1985 - PLATINI - High work-rate, Assists & Leadership - 41 goals in 72 games with France
If you watch on Youtube '83-84 Home Michel Platini vs Manchester United', then you will understand the arrows. Quality short & long passing skills for the wingers

Ballon d'Or 1999 - RIVALDO - Exceptional ball control and killer instinct - 35 goals in 74 games with Brazil


Thomas Müller - version Germany on the right early 2010s - 38 goals in 94 games with Germany

Defensive Midfielder - Paul Ince - To be discussed later


Defensive Midfielder - Luis Fernandez - Strong and Complete Defensive midfielder with a high stamina - Played a key role in the France Golden era between 1982 and 1986 - To be discussed later


LWB - LEO JUNIOR 82 - Orchestrating attacking moves as fulfilling his defensive remit - Brazil: 74 caps
Technique, Pass accuracy, Teamwork and Versatility: left-back, left midfielder or central midfielder
Main Honours: 1982 WC All-Star Team + SA Defender of The Year (1981,1982) + Bronze Ball SA Footballer (1981)

RB - Angloma - Excellent RB with 37 caps with France only because of Thuram

Baresi - Another Legend


Bratseth - The best defender with Morten Olsen coming from the Nordics countries - To be discussed later


Rammalets- Description later
 
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Theon

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Five videos in the OP. Glad the discussion in the main thread was effective :lol:.
 

Ecstatic

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Good luck too :)

Five videos in the OP. Glad the discussion in the main thread was effective :lol:.
:lol:

A lazy way to present my players tbh but I can't a video from now on, which could be viewed as tactical advantage for you!

The atmosphere in this game will be relax compared to some games like harms vs moby or enigma/joga vs beam.

More interested in replying to the neutrals than in overselling my team these days
 

Theon

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The atmosphere in this game will be relax compared to some games like harms vs moby or enigma/joga vs beam.
:lol: Aye hopefully mate. Working long hours at the moment and with two kids doesn’t leave much time for loads of draft mega posts!

Not much to say about mine that isn’t said in the OP. I’m really pleased with the team and its pretty much man for man what I’d pencilled in once I got Diego (except for Marcelo - thanks to @Pat_Mustard ).

Really like your team as well though, particularly the Platini / Seeler axis and can see Rivaldo working well inside left channel (similar to Del Piero there).
 

Skizzo

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Quick glance over and another couple of we’ll put together teams.


The Seeler-Platini duo for @Ecstatic is lovely.

@Theon did some fine drafting with that backline though, and think it would do a good job nullifying it to a degree.
 

Ecstatic

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:lol: Aye hopefully mate. Working long hours at the moment and with two kids doesn’t leave much time for loads of draft mega posts!

Not much to say about mine that isn’t said in the OP. I’m really pleased with the team and its pretty much man for man what I’d pencilled in once I got Diego (except for Marcelo - thanks to @Pat_Mustard ).

Really like your team as well though, particularly the Platini / Seeler axis and can see Rivaldo working well inside left channel (similar to Del Piero there).
The two teams are tactically consistent.

I have sent to @Gio my short-list of 5 teams and you were part of this list.

Humm, there is a lot of contemporary players so we won't need to present them extensively unless some have some questions
 

Jim Beam

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The atmosphere in this game will be relax compared to some games like harms vs moby or enigma/joga vs beam.
It was an emotionally draining experience. I think I lost my draft virginity on the wrong game.

Lovely atmosphere in here, that's all I have to say for now.
 

Theon

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GABRIEL BATISTUTA - ARGENTINA'S GREATEST NUMBER 9

Mario Kempes, Diego Maradona, Juan Roman Riquelme, Lionel Messi. The greats of the Argentina attack are usually number 10s. Then there’s Gabriel Batistuta, an archetypal and unashamed No9.

“Batistuta is the best striker I have ever seen,” says Diego Maradona. He would know a thing or two.





Fiorentina’s all-time leading goalscorer, it would take Lionel Messi 112 Argentina appearances to break the 56-goal record Batigol set in 78 international caps.

A league notorious for its defending, Serie A was at the height of its powers in the 1990s, yet Batistuta netted 184 times there in his 13 seasons. That was done without one or two standout seasons – in nine years at Fiorentina he showed incredible consistency. Despite Batistuta's goals, those nine seasons with La Viola saw just two winners medals. The Coppa Italia and Supercopa, both in 1996.

“To tell you the truth [moving to a bigger club] didn’t interest me so much because, although there were titles, they were easy to win. I said: ‘No, I’m staying with Fiorentina and I’ll try to win something here because one title with Fiorentina is worth ten with Milan or Juventus.”

It was at Fiorentina that Batigol developed one of the great Serie A partnerships with the exquisite Rui Costa:

In a team that was lacking in defence and didn’t fare much better in the middle, Batistuta and Rui Costa were an attacking phenomenon, zigging in a league that chose to zag.
Fiorentina failed to compete for Serie A and eventually Batigol knew he had to leave if he were to finish his career with a major title. At age 31 Roma signed the forward for £27.5 million. He became the most expensive over-30-year-old – a record he still holds. It was the move that would finally deliver the trophy he sought. The Scudetto. With 20 goals Batigol became a legend in Rome as he fired I Giallorossi to their third, and last, Serie A title.

Once again Batigol demonstrated how well he dovetails with a #10, forming an exceptional partnership with Francesco Totti:

The chemistry between the captain and the striker was nearly telepathic.

Batistuta thrived off of Totti’s creativity, and returned it with slick assists himself from time to time. His primary job, of course, was to notch goals, and he so often finished with aplomb, showing off the kind of ice-cold confidence and power that only the very elite strikers have.


Batistuta was a very typical number nine. Yet somehow atypical.

He could do anything you would ask of a striker and do all of it well. When you watch his Serie A goals you see quickly he could score in any way: deft finishes, tap-ins, bullet headers, long-range efforts smashed home. It was all in his repertoire.

A player of huge stature, the most obvious strength was the power with which he could strike the ball from any distance. He had good control and was excellent in the air. His presence was intimidating and his attitude tenacious.

Then there are the subtleties to his game; the things big No9s don’t do. The more you watch Batistuta, the more you see the intelligent movement, the sly actions to gain any advantage, the malleability of his game.

As time goes on it becomes increasingly difficult to see where players from bygone eras would fit into the modern game, but not with Batistuta. In our current era without two strikers he would have no trouble leading the line alone, marrying all his attributes to combine the archetypal number nine with the agile and less restricted roles of forwards today. He had the technical ability and speed, the strength and intelligence, to drift wide or deep, to hold the ball up or play merely as a poacher.

One of the greatest strikers we’ve ever seen, Argentina’s greatest ever goalscorer and one of the best players in the history of Italian football, there is only one Gabriel Batistuta.

 
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Ecstatic

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Version
: young version who played on the right wing with Germany in the early 2010s.
Credentials: World Cup 2010 as 'Best Young Player' and 'Golden Boot winner.'
Style of play: He was young so he was capable to outflank the opposing left-back but he was already deadly. He hasn't the dribbling/technical skills of Del Piero but I consider the former less killer than the German in the great games. Müller was more efficient in the bigger stages and deadly functional: exactly what you need in an attack that already has Seeler + Rivaldo + Platini. Müller was the consummate high pressure player over his career.

 

Ecstatic

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Rune Bratseth - his name rhymes with the 'Golden era' of Norway at the internationl level

Version: 1988-93


Nicknamed "Elk" due to his long stature, he is best known for his spell with SV Werder Bremen, also having appeared in the 1994 FIFA World Cup with Norway, its first since 1938, at the age of 33.

One of the best players to come out of Norway ever, Rune Bratseth came from humble beginnings to become a world class defender, a legend in the Bundesliga and the first Norwegian ever to win a European Cup. So good was Bratseth in his prime, that the legendary Franz Beckenbauer, then German national coach, once said he would have liked to have Bratseth in his squad at the 1990 World Cup.

Not bad for a player who nearly gave up football eight years earlier. In 1982, the 21-year-old Bratseth was playing part-time football in his native Trondheim for Third Division club Nidelv, and was thinking about quitting the game to consentrate on his studies. Then, he was discovered by pure coincidence by Rosenborg player Knut Torbjørn Eggen, who happened to be watching a friendly football tournament between Trondheim's religious communities, where Bratseth, a devout Christian, played for a team called Salem United, representing the Pentecostal Church. Impressed by his performance, Eggen persuaded Rosenborg to give Bratseth a trial. And the rest, as the saying goes, is history.

Bratseth didn't take long to establish himself at Rosenborg. He became a regular in 1983, and was one of the key players when RBK won the League Championship in 1985. Still, it came as somewhat of a surprise that he was selected for the national team's training camp in the Caribbean in early 1986, where he made his international debut against Grenada. Later that year, following another excellent season at Rosenborg, he was given a trial by German club Werder Bremen, who liked what they saw, and quickly signed the player. It was at this club Bratseth would become one of the top defenders in Europe. Tall, fast, cool under pressure and with good technical skills for a defender, Bratseth became the first-choice libero at Bremen within weeks of joining the club, and his performances didn't go unnoticed back home. He soon became a regular in the national team, and was nearly always among the best players on the field. Among his many great moments for Norway was his fantastic goal against Cyprus in 1989, when he ran across the entire pitch, dribbled past four players, and fired the ball into the back of the net. In 1988, he played nearly every game in the Bremen side that won the Bundesliga, and Bratseth, nicknamed "Der Elch" ("The Moose") by the Werder supporters, was named the best foreign player in Germany.

In 1990, now an indispensable player for both club and country, Bratseth was named captain of the national team, and he was a vital player in what was to become the start of Norway's golden age in the early 1990s. At club level, he won the German Cup in 1991, and the following year he became the first ever Norwegian to win a European trophy when Bremen won the Cup Winners' Cup. He added another medal to his collection in 1993, when Bremen once again won the Bundesliga Championship, and he was ever-present when Norway qualified for the 1994 World Cup. Still an excellent player, he then announced his intention to retire from football after the World Cup finals. The World Cup was a fitting swansong for a great player. Although Norway failed to get past the group stage (by the slimmest of margins), the captain was, along with Erik Thorstvedt, Norway's best player in the tournament, rock solid in defence. Despite obviously being good enough to keep playing for both Bremen and Norway, Bratseth kept his word, and retired after the 1994 World Cup. He finished his career with 60 caps for Norway, and 230 games and 12 goals for Werder Bremen. After retiring from the game, Bratseth moved back to Trondheim, and worked as Rosenborg's director of football from 1995 to 2007.


BALLON D'OR 1992




BALLON D'OR 1993



CONCLUSION: YOU NEED AN ELK TO FIGHT WITH BATISTUTA
 

Ecstatic

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PAUL INCE - THE MANCHESTER GREAT

I'm sure Roy Keane follows RedCafe and especially these drafts. I expect he will vote for my team

Roy Keane’s best Manchester United XI:

Peter Schmeichel;
Paul Parker,
Jaap Stam,
Gary Pallister,
Denis Irwin;
Paul Ince, :D
Roy Keane,
David Beckham,
Eric Cantona,
Cristiano Ronaldo,
Ruud van Nistelrooy

On a more serious note, he used to play in a 4-4-2 system with United and I was impressed by the dynamism of the central midfield in 1993-95 which enables Cantona to reach his full potential.

Here, Platini is much much more hard-working player; which gives a good indication of the my ability to limit the influence of some specific players.
 

Ecstatic

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How Paul Ince overcame oppression to become an Inter great

When Paul Ince swapped Manchester for Milan in the summer of 1995, it was a move that left supporters of the club he departed bemused.

Ince had been a part of a young and exciting Manchester United side that emerged in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The Red Devils were beginning to dominate English football around the time of the inception of the Premier League and, in a formidable partnership with talismanic Irishman Roy Keane, Ince won ten major trophies in six years at Old Trafford. ‘The Guv’nor’, as he was nicknamed in his youth at previous club West Ham, had been a vital part of a winning team that laid the foundations for what would become two decades of unbridled success for United, both at home and in Europe.

Fans couldn’t quite believe it then when, after manager Alex Ferguson accepted a £7 million bid from Internazionale, Ince departed the north west of England to relatively little fan-fare. “It wasn’t an easy one,” Ferguson said, reflecting on his decision to sell Ince in 2008, “but I felt it was good business for the club at the time.” It’s possible, too, that with the famed ‘Class of ‘92’ beginning to stake significant claims as first team regulars for United, the Scot felt letting a player of Ince’s caliber leave would not be as significant a blow as it otherwise might have been.

The move wasn’t one Ince was keen on either, as he told Paddy Power in 2016. “When I left United it wasn’t my decision,” he remarked. “I was about to negotiate a four-year contract and sort a testimonial out, but it was down to Sir Alex Ferguson and the board and they wanted to sell me to Inter Milan. I was devastated to leave.” Nevertheless, Manchester United’s loss was Inter’s gain and Ince headed south to begin perhaps the most memorable period of his playing career.

Ince arrived at Giuseppe Meazza at a time of great turmoil for the Nerazzurri. The club had narrowly avoided relegation from Serie A in 1994, finishing one point above the relegation zone in what remains, to date, their worst ever top-flight finish. Though they had managed to win the UEFA Cup in both 1991 and 1994, they had faltered domestically. Dominance of Serie A by city rivals AC Milan and long-time adversaries Juventus had ensured Inter had not won a major domestic trophy since 1989, the year in which they won both the Scudetto and the Supercoppa Italia.

But Ince’s signing came at a time of great change for Inter. He was one of the first acquisitions made by the club under new president Massimo Moratti and would soon be joined by many more. With players such as Youri Djorkaeff, Ivan Zamorano and Aron Winter joining Ince over the next twelve months, Moratti made clear his desire to take the Nerazzurri back to the summit of Italian football. A lifelong Interista, Moratti was desperate to see his club return to dining at the top table of Italian and European football, as they had been so accustomed to throughout their history.

Ince would immediately claim a first team place on arrival, making his debut in a 1-0 victory over Vicenza at San Siro. He formed a cohesive partnership with fellow midfielder Nicola Berti and, in doing so, created a hard-working and industrious pairing that worked effectively in the often tactically complex world of calcio. Both Ince and Berti were athletic and energetic with engines that rarely tired throughout 90 minutes. That wasn’t to say they were without technical ability, however.

Ince, in particular, showed the kind of finesse and class in the final third that made him more of a goal threat than he is perhaps given credit for in hindsight. Though he only scored three goals in his debut season in Italy, he always proved a worrying prospect for opposing defences, either through his darting runs into the box or his eye for a pass, which could often split notoriously vault-like Italian defences.

By the end of his first year in Italy, Ince had helped Inter secure a seventh-place finish in Serie A. In what could be considered a moderate success for the Englishman, he’d aided the Nerazzuri in securing European football for the second successive season, through qualification for the UEFA Cup.

From an individual perspective, he was also showing signs of settling in Italy, particularly towards the end of the season. His three goals came in the last two months of the campaign, the most notable being one of eight scored by Inter in an 8-2 thrashing of lowly Padova. Furthermore, his efforts weren’t going unnoticed on the Curva Nord. “Come on Paul Ince, come on” was a chant that filled the Guiseppe Meazza within months of his arrival on the peninsula, proving that the Illford-born player had found a place in the hearts of the famously hostile Interisti.

Ince and Roberto Baggio after a Derby della Madonnina

Ince’s quick and considerable integration into life at Inter was all the more remarkable considering the social climate in Italy at the time. Ince is black and, as even the club themselves admitted, it was questionable to many whether a player of his ethnicity would be able to find a place in the affections of those in the Curva Nord. As reported by the Telegraph just before Ince’s transfer to Inter was finalised, racist graffiti on the walls of the club’s own stadium greeted him as he arrived in Milan to negotiate his contract. It wasn’t unusual for inflatable bananas to be waved in the crowds at grounds all over Italy whenever a black player touched the ball and, for Ince and other black players at the time, the culture of racism in Italy was as notorious as it was vicious. Ince had already had to overcome prejudice and break down barriers in becoming the first black captain of England’s national team and it was clear that, if he was to have any modicum of success in Italy, he would have to hurdle similar obstacles there.

Perhaps the most infamous example of the abuse he suffered was in an away game at Cremonese in April of 1996. Ince had scored the first goal in a 4-2 win for the Nerazzurri and had incurred the wrath of the hostile home crowd as a result. “They were shouting ‘N*****, n*****’, at me,” Ince recalled in a report by The Independent a month after the incident, “So I turned towards them and clapped, as if to say, ‘Yeah, well done’. That’s when the referee booked me.’”

The abuse was so severe that Ince himself admitted he considered returning to England. The arrival of compatriot Roy Hodgson as manager towards the end of his first year did much to aid the situation, however, as Ince confirmed at a press conference at Inter’s training ground later that same year. “If Hodgson hadn’t arrived five or six months ago, I probably would have gone back to England,” he stated unambiguously. “He’s like me; he wants to win. We both come from London so we’ve got that kind of aggressiveness to want to do well and win. If he should go, next year or the year after that, it would change my position completely. Hopefully that won’t happen.”

Ince also called for Moratti and others in influential positions to do more to combat the racism, noting that the considerable work done by the FA in his homeland had done much to improve the situation there. “I think an issue must be made out of it so that we get to where people and the federation are going to do something about it,” he said. But racism was regrettably something that would plague Ince and other players of an ethnic minority for the remainder of his stay in Milan.

Despite this, the success Ince achieved on the field was commendable, and his second season was arguably more successful than his first. His goal tally increased to seven in all competitions and Inter secured a third-place finish in Serie A, missing out on Champions League qualification by just four points. Even more impressively, they reached the final of the UEFA Cup and, despite losing to Schalke 04 over two legs, proved they were once again a major force on the European stage.

Ince’s influence on the team was widely acknowledged throughout Italy by the time his second season had come to a close. He was considered so integral to Inter’s success at the time that one Italian paper described the team without him as “Inter sensa Anima” or “Inter without Soul.”

President Moratti was keen for the Englishman to prolong his stay in Italy, convinced a partnership between Ince and flagship world-record signing Ronaldo would only enhance Inter’s exponential rise. Ince, who Moratti called ‘The Tiger’, owing to his ferocious work rate, would reject the club’s advances in order to return home and allow son Thomas to attend an English school, but this did little to sour Moratti’s impression of the player. Speaking to Inter Channel in 2013 following the appointment of Walter Mazzarri as manager, Moratti praised both men’s considerable work rate, saying, “It doesn’t matter how long you stay, and Ince was only here for a year and a half, there are certain individuals who stick in your mind as great Interisti because they’re great people.”

Ince’s time with Internazionale may have been short but it was definitely sweet. He retains a fondness for the club to this day and, thanks to a close relationship with Massimo Moratti that continues, his son Thomas nearly followed in his footsteps by making the switch to Italy in 2014. It’s perhaps a blessing in disguise that the move didn’t materialise. Not only would Thomas have struggled to excel at a club that has had a volatile last few years through a change in ownership, but the pressure to live up to what his father achieved may have been too much to bear.

Ince may not have returned from Italy in 1997 with more medals to add to his collection but what he did earn was perhaps even more valuable. In the face of racial prejudice and social opposition, he found a way to break down barriers and find a place in the hearts of Inter fans that he still occupies today. Moratti described him as ‘a great Interisti’ and, regardless of what parameters one might use to measure that, it’s hard to argue when the former president of the club makes such a statement. Ince will forever remain a fan favourite at Inter and, looking back, it’s easy to see why.

Words by Laura Bradburn: @LBrad88
‘Laura has had a long love affair with Calcio that began thanks to a certain Gabriel Batistuta. Whether it’s a match to decide the Scudetto or a battle at the other end of the table, she can be found on her couch most weekends taking in the wonders of Italian football.
 
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Ecstatic

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ANGLOMA - THE BRILLIANT RIGHT-BACK OVERSHADOWED BY THE EMERGING OF THURAM


I have chosen him here for several reasons:

1) He is more offensive than Tassotti
2) He is also excellent to defend on the wing but also as a central defender, which is very important in this game.


Marseille 1-0 Milan champions league final 93





Angloma: 37 caps only because (1) Thuram has emerged (2) France didn't qualify for WC 90 and WC 94

Club
Marseille
  • Ligue 1: 1991–92
  • UEFA Champions League: 1992–93
Inter Milan
  • UEFA Cup: (Runners-up) 1996–97
Valencia
  • La Liga: 2001–02
  • Copa del Rey: 1998–99
  • Supercopa de España: 1999
  • UEFA Champions League: (Runners-up) 1999–2000, 2000–01
International
France Under-21
  • UEFA European Under-21 Football Championship: 1988
Individual
  • UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 1992
  • ESM Team of the Year: 1996–97, 1999–2000, 2000–03


Valencia-Real champions league final 2001



champions league final 2000
champions league final 2000

 

Ecstatic

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I rate high these Italian defenders and the fact that it's a proven defensive line is an aspect that deserves to be taken into account obvisouly.

That said, if I refer to the stats in the OP, their stats are slightly fostered by the relative decline of the Italian football and the Serie A from an historical perspective.

The best foreign players used to play in Italy in the 80s-90s-early 00s: Batistuta, Ronaldo...

Case study: the quality of Italian strikers late 90s versus today

Before

Vieiri
Inzaghi
Baggio
Totti
Del Piero
Vialli
Ravanelli
Simone
Luca Toni
gilardino
montella
chiesa
zola
signori
...

Now: who do we have? :nervous:
 

hasanejaz88

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I don't like the 3-5-2 formation because there is a clear weaknesses with regards to dealing with wide players and flanking wing backs. Ecstatic's formation though doesn't take advantage of that weakness but rather plays into Theon's hands by concentrating play in the center, where Theo has a world class 3 man defensive partnership along two world class DM's. Rivaldo and Muller will not be effective in wide roles and therefore they will have to come centrally to play at their best, Theon's formation and quality though will negate their impact.

Ecstatic may argue that he has attacking wing backs in Angloma and Leo Junior but they can be defended by Theon's wing backs, the advantage would have been if Ecstatic played two pure wingers (i.e Giggs, Beckham) and therefore have a man advantage on either side, that would force Theon to stretch is defence and open up space in the middle for the strikers and midfielders to attack. Theon also has a fantastic front three to score, along with a hardworking midfield of Mash and Schweinsteiger to allow Maradona to roam the field and create.

Theon for me.
 

harms

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Theon's team is so beautifully straight-forward, but Baresi's presence makes it hard to vote for him right away. The outcome of this game really depends on him — if he'll put a superhuman performance, like he can, Platini/Seeler/Rivaldo can punish Theon's defence and steal a win from him.
 

Physiocrat

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Tough one for me this. Theon's front 3 is incredible but I reckon his defence is vunerable to the clever interplay of his front 4.

That said Theon could well have quite a bit more of the ball Bastian and Mascherano is much better than Fernandez and Ince.

On the fence
 

Theon

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Tough one for me this. Theon's front 3 is incredible but I reckon his defence is vunerable to the clever interplay of his front 4.

That said Theon could well have quite a bit more of the ball Bastian and Mascherano is much better than Fernandez and Ince.

On the fence
I don’t think the defence is particularly vulnerable at all. As a back three they conceded an average of 0.6 goals over a six year period - that’s completely ridiculous.

And look at the titanic defensive midfielders they have shielding the back line here, in Schweinsteiger and Mascherano they have much better midfield protection than what they had a Juventus.

I’ll do a post on Schweinsteiger later when I’m home, but for me the biggest mismatch on the park is the quality difference in midfield. Schweinsteiger has proven himself capable of stifling the very best #10’s (including great performances against Messi) so I don’t see any way in which this back line is especially exposed.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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What’s confusing about that?

It’s unquestionably a world class back three. Let’s not be silly just because they’re modern players, what they’ve done at Juve is record breaking.
Come on. I have nothing bad to say about your defence, but world class isn't the term I'd use for any of them, far less the partnership. Baresi defined world class and I'd put your trio at least 2 tiers down.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
What’s confusing about that?

It’s unquestionably a world class back three. Let’s not be silly just because they’re modern players, what they’ve done at Juve is record breaking.
Aye, they've been highly impressive in a very attacker-friendly era. I think Barzagli is my favourite of the lot, hipster that I am, although Bonucci's composure on the ball and passing from deep is at least approaching all-time great level imo.

All in all, a great setup for Maradona.
 

hasanejaz88

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Come on. I have nothing bad to say about your defence, but world class isn't the term I'd use for any of them, far less the partnership. Baresi defined world class and I'd put your trio at least 2 tiers down.
You're comparing one man to 3 players who had played together for 5 seasons, reached the UCL final twice and won the Seria A in all 5 of those seasons. Also don't forget with each defensive partnership put forward in this draft, there is always a question of whether the two (or three) defenders will be able to work alongside each other; for Theon's defense there isn't a doubt as they have performed at a high level together for a long time.
 

Theon

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Come on. I have nothing bad to say about your defence, but world class isn't the term I'd use for any of them, far less the partnership.
Fair enough man, think that’s absurd personally but happy to disagree. I think you’ll find in five years or so that history writes it a little differently (it already is, and it’ll step up a notch when they start retiring). They’re the definition of a world class defensive partnership and have literally broken records together.

Yes obviously Baresi was better than any of them as an individual, that goes without saying.
 

Jim Beam

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Lots of love for that Maradona-Del Piero-Batistuta trio. Count those behind them, fullbacks in Chagas and Cafu and proved partnership at the back and it's hard to not give them just a slight advantage imo. Although Ecstatic team is a very formidable force in they own right (Baresi can even be a game changer here as already mentioned).
 

Physiocrat

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I don’t think the defence is particularly vulnerable at all. As a back three they conceded an average of 0.6 goals over a six year period - that’s completely ridiculous.
It is undoubtedly an incredible record my issue is that the standard of Serie A during this time period has been really quite poor and Juve were by far the best side so didn't need to do that much defending.
 

idmanager

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What is this boring crap? No Gio is your AM discussion yet? Disappointing from a great draw after the last draft :(

@Gio needs to vote to set this snooze fest ablaze
 

idmanager

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BALLON D'OR 1992



BALLON D'OR 1993

Please don't take this as an argument or insight into the game but how do people read into these tables where there are players with just a couple of votes, most likely by captain or coach or journo of their club or national team?
Think when we bring up the ballon dor ranks, we should take into consideration the number of votes they earned as well.
Its not worth bring into the argument if they havent won a decent number of votes. Nothing to do with how good the player was of course, but fairly pointless IMO.
 

harms

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Please don't take this as an argument or insight into the game but how do people read into these tables where there are players with just a couple of votes, most likely by captain or coach or journo of their club or national team?
You're confusing the awards here.
 

idmanager

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You're confusing the awards here.
Seems to be journalist based back then but the point still stands I think. Not sure who that 1 vote was for Brathseth in 92. Wont be surprised if it was a vote from the represented Norwegian journo