Passes into Penalty Area

[andersj]

I stumbled across a statistic on fbref.com that I found a bit interesting. Passes into penalty Area, excluding crosses and set-pieces (PPA). I find it interesting because in my opinion one of our biggest weaknesses is lack of good passers of the ball. PPA is perhaps a really small part of the game, but it is so crucial and I think the numbers really reflect the gap between us and Man City/Liverpool.

Not very surprising, but still quite revealing of some of the issues we have and I've shared it in the picture below. I included the Man Utd squad (all players who have made a PPA), the five best players at Man City and Liverpool and three players I find interesting from other teams, Buendia, Grealish and Maddison.

A few takeaways:

- Four players at Man City have completed more passes into the penalty area than our entire team this season (PL).
- Without Pogba and Rashford the PPA of our best regular player is at a similar level as the average players at Bmth, Villa, West Ham, Norwich and Watford. That is excluding their best players (Fraser/Rico, Felipe Anderson, Grealish, Deulofeu, Buendia).
- Only Pogba completes more passes into the penalty area than Williams per 90 min. Pogba makes 2,59 passes into the penalty area per 90 min, Brandon Williams makes 1,82 and Marcus Rashford makes 1,63 passes per 90 min.
- Buendia makes 2,13 and Grealish makes 1,92 passes into the penalty area per 90 min. This is not at a Paul Pogba/Man City level, but at a similar rate as TAA (2,04) and Robertson (1,85) who is on top at Liverpool.


The fact that PP is 40-50 % above the rest of the players in our team per 90 underline his importance to the team. But it also proves that lack of movement is not the biggest issue. A good player is able to find his team mates in the penalty area at Man Utd. I find it interesting how good Buendia and Grealish' numbers are considering they play for sides like Norwich and Aston Villa. In my opinion they are really good players with playmaking ability we could need.

I was a bit surprised by Rashford. I did not expect his numbers to be that much better than the rest. A bit because I feel that he is often on the receiving end of passes into the box (wish I had that stat too).

 

[shitfaced-assassin]

I think The Equalizer should employ a top surgeon to sow the legs of Tahith Chong onto Juan Mata, for some scary, speedy, playmaking hybrid called Tuan Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
That's what we really need to improve our PPA stats.

 

[shitfaced-assassin]

I think The Equalizer should employ a top surgeon to sow the legs of Tahith Chong onto Juan Mata, for some scary, speedy, playmaking hybrid called Tuan Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
That's what we really need to improve our PPA stats.

We could probably also make £19m selling Jahith Chata to Bournemouth.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Nice thread.

But it also proves that lack of movement is not the biggest issue.

What?

Surely good movements helps teammates who have less ability i.e. vision and pass skills (compare to PP) to give "better/easier" passes to them.

Since we have only one genuine playmaker i.e. Pogba (two if we still want to include Mata, I wouldn't, not up to standard anymore) then his absence meant we need to rely more on good movements.

Current situation means having lack of proper movements to break down defenses, patterns of attack, etc, is one of the biggest problem, especially vs park the bus teams.

It's an ongoing problems, and for me, also poor finishing but then majority of the bad missed opportunities taken by our players are more due to "sudden surprise" than "planned/expected". If you know what your team mates is going to do, then it's easier to pass and score.

The anticipations are there which helps PPA and finishing with better composure.

I see Leicester, Liv and City players know and understand their team mates well. Patterns of attack, passings and finishing are there. Having more than one playmakers (City) and plenty of well drilled and natural good movements players (all three ) helps a lot.

 

[Cassidy]

Nice thread.


What?

Surely good movements helps teammates who have less ability i.e. vision and pass skills (compare to PP) to give "better/easier" passes to them.

Since we have only one genuine playmaker i.e. Pogba (two if we still want to include Mata, I wouldn't, not up to standard anymore) then his absence meant we need to rely more on good movements.

Current situation means having lack of proper movements to break down defenses, patterns of attack, etc, is one of the biggest problem, especially vs park the bus teams.

It's an ongoing problems, and for me, also poor finishing but then majority of the bad missed opportunities taken by our players are more due to "sudden surprise" than "planned/expected". If you know what your team mates is going to do, then it's easier to pass and score.

The anticipations are there which helps PPA and finishing with better composure.

Yes better movement helps crap players but we saw vs Liverpool the movement was there and they still couldn't execute the passes.

Notice no body in the 10 role is anywhere good on that list

 

[andersj]

Surely good movements helps teammates who have less ability i.e. vision and pass skills (compare to PP) to give "better/easier" passes to them.

I have not said otherwise, have I?

I wrote that it is not the biggest issue. And I think the figures proves it. That is not the same as saying it is not an issue at all. That being said, I also think that Rashford being "that good" supports it. Probably the player at Man Utd with best movement on the last third. And he is still one of the players that completes the most passes in the penalty area (despite not being able to pass to himself).

 

[Grib]

Surely good movements helps teammates who have less ability i.e. vision and pass skills (compare to PP) to give "better/easier" passes to them.

Yeah but what he says probably has some merit

Every game all over the pitch our players are reluctant to play a ball into feet in the centre of the pitch. You see players open who could take it to feet and the pass is consistently refused in favour of moving it to the wing or backwards. It's even more glaring when you are there in person, we aren't talking about players being tightly marked here either

I know when I play if the balls don't come you stop working

While that's probably not the mentality we need from professionals they are still human and I'd say it plays a part

The lack of movement IS a problem but the lack of players willing to play the ball into feet in the middle certainly makes this worse I'd say

 

[JPRouve]

I have said it this weekend but our man issue is the lack of opportunities given to our attackers by the midfield. The more passes are made in the box, the more likely you are to provoke mistakes from the opponents and give yourself good goalscoring opportunities. And the issue isn't a lack of movement even though we could improve in that area, it's the lack of passing skills, vision and confidence from our midfielders and fullbacks, they don't really attempt passes in tight windows and at the highest level players are rarely wide open.

 

[Siorac]

What this stat shows, above all, is that there's no system to our attacking play. Something anyone with a working set of eyes can see, of course, but the numbers also confirm it.

Look at Liverpool's numbers: they clearly show that their full-backs are their greatest threat and most potent offensive weapon. The front three have a comparatively smaller creative responsibility.

City are all about working the ball to the box through the middle with their creative playmakers, cutting through the opposition. Again, it's something we can easily see in their football and the numbers confirm it.

Us? In the absence of Pogba, the front three are expected to both score all the goals and provide all the creativity, too.

 

[Grib]

I have said it this weekedn but our man issue is the lack of opportunities given to our attackers by the midfield. The more passes are made in the box, the more likely you are to provoke mistakes from the opponents and give yourself good goalscoring opportunities. And the issue isn't a lack of movement even though we could improve in that area, it's the lack of passing skills, vision and confidence from our midfielders and fullbacks, they don't really attempt passes in tight windows and at the highest level players are rarely wide open.

In a nutshell. Most people who've played football at any level will understand this.

'football intelligence' is a thing, there plenty of people I've played with who can be good with the ball etc but lack this and it's blatantly obvious they don't understand the game on that level.

It's not a slight on any fans etc, it is what it is and you can still enjoy playing and watching. The thing is professional players should not lack this and they don't so when you see our midfielders hiding behind opposition players so they can't get the ball of a CB or a player not giving the ball to feet in the middle it's 100% a confidence issue

Again anyone who's played themselves will have experienced it, when your not playing well you turn down those passes you wouldn't have thought twice about trying last week

This is my problem with Ole now, regardless of what level of skill and talent is available to him, it's part of his job to instill that confidence in the players and at too many times this season, regardless of each individual's level they are playing below it and it shows badly

 

[andersj]

What this stat shows, above all, is that there's no system to our attacking play.

Maybe. But there is also a huge gulf in quality between James/Martial/Fred/Pereira, KdB/Silva/Mahrez/Sterling and TAA/Robertson/Mane/Salah/Firmino.

Would our players perform much better in Liverpool or Man City? Would AWB look like TAA? Shaw like Robertson? James like Sterling or Mahrez? Fred and McTominay like Kdb and David Silva? Probably not!

Brandon Williams comes in and perform better than all of our midfielders and fullbacks. He is a very young and inexperienced player, but attacking wise he has been able to perform in our system. At least a lot better than our experienced regulars.

 

[JPRouve]

I suspect our passes in the penalty area stat would be a hell of a lot better if our current main striker didn't seem to have a weird phobia about getting into the penalty area so players can try and pass the ball to him...

Not really. Look at the figures, a single player won't affect them that much. You basically need 4 or 5 players that are always in and around the box and even more players with the confidence and skills to make the passes. This is typically a team issue.

 

[andersj]

I also looked at team stats in the PL. We actually complete a lot of passes into the final third. Obviously not as many as City, Liverpool and Chelsea, but more than the rest. The trouble seems to be to get the ball into the penalty area. But our PPA is significantly worse. It is at a similar level as Everton, Leicester, Arsenal etc. If you include crosses (still not set pieces) we are worse than Leicester, Arsenal, Brighton (!), Everton (!), Villa (!) and at a similar level as Sheff Utd. It is difficult to argue that our players are worse than the players in these teams.

That being said, the final third is a lot down to the quality of the players. I remember Henry saying Peps build up is to enter the final third, and that it is up to the players when you enter this area of the pitch.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I also looked at team stats in the PL. We actually complete a lot of passes into the final third. Obviously not as many as City, Liverpool and Chelsea, but more than the rest. The trouble seems to be to get the ball into the penalty area. But our PPA is significantly worse. It is at a similar level as Everton, Leicester, Arsenal etc. If you include crosses (still not set pieces) we are worse than Leicester, Arsenal, Brighton (!), Everton (!), Villa (!) and at a similar level as Sheff Utd. It is difficult to argue that our players are worse than the players in these teams.

That being said, the final third is a lot down to the quality of the players. I remember Henry saying Peps build up is to enter the final third, and that it is up to the players when you enter this area of the pitch.

Wrote this in the "how to break down teams" thread some time ago:

Adjusted for total touches(Only stat that was available) regarding touches and comparing United, City and Liverpool:

• Unsuccesful touches adjusted: (Unsuccessful touches in total/(total touches/number of games) --> UnsTouches*nrGames/total touches: City 207*17/14332 = 0.25, Liverpool 273*17/13215 = 0.35, MUFC 268*17/11478 = 0.40.
  • The lower the number, the better. The following point about action zones would skew this even more if factored in.
• For dispossessions the number gets even worse: (dispossessions in total/(total touches/number of games) --> Dispossessed*nrGames/total touches: City 158*17/14332 = 0.19, Liverpool 128*17/13215 = 0.16, MUFC 186*17/11478 = 0.28.
  • The lower the number, the better. The following point about action zones would skew this even more if factored in.
• Action zones: Final third: City 39%, Liverpool 33%, MUFC 29%.
• Sources:
  • https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/touches?se=274
  • For unsuccessful touches and dispossessions see whoscored.com
• The same differences would be the case for passing. More passes in the final third at a higher completion rate.

To be able to make passes into the penalty area, it is important to control the ball in the final third. Losing the ball through bad touches and being dispossessed (which leads to counter-attacking opportunities) often makes it difficult and risky to have a majority of the players in the final third (like City).

City practices or has trained on some moves and "system plays" in the final third. Similar to how Liverpool practices on corners. Some of the goals City have scored is coached, and not completely based on a cohesive understanding between the players.

 

[andersj]

I stumbled across a statistic on fbref.com that I found a bit interesting. Passes into penalty Area, excluding crosses and set-pieces (PPA). I find it interesting because in my opinion one of our biggest weaknesses is lack of good passers of the ball. PPA is perhaps a really small part of the game, but it is so crucial and I think the numbers really reflect the gap between us and Man City/Liverpool.

Not very surprising, but still quite revealing of some of the issues we have and I've shared it in the picture below. I included the Man Utd squad (all players who have made a PPA), the five best players at Man City and Liverpool and three players I find interesting from other teams, Buendia, Grealish and Maddison.

A few takeaways:

- Four players at Man City have completed more passes into the penalty area than our entire team this season (PL).
- Without Pogba and Rashford the PPA of our best regular player is at a similar level as the average players at Bmth, Villa, West Ham, Norwich and Watford. That is excluding their best players (Fraser/Rico, Felipe Anderson, Grealish, Deulofeu, Buendia).
- Only Pogba completes more passes into the penalty area than Williams per 90 min. Pogba makes 2,59 passes into the penalty area per 90 min, Brandon Williams makes 1,82 and Marcus Rashford makes 1,63 passes per 90 min.
- Buendia makes 2,13 and Grealish makes 1,92 passes into the penalty area per 90 min. This is not at a Paul Pogba/Man City level, but at a similar rate as TAA (2,04) and Robertson (1,85) who is on top at Liverpool.


The fact that PP is 40-50 % above the rest of the players in our team per 90 underline his importance to the team. But it also proves that lack of movement is not the biggest issue. A good player is able to find his team mates in the penalty area at Man Utd. I find it interesting how good Buendia and Grealish' numbers are considering they play for sides like Norwich and Aston Villa. In my opinion they are really good players with playmaking ability we could need.

I was a bit surprised by Rashford. I did not expect his numbers to be that much better than the rest. A bit because I feel that he is often on the receiving end of passes into the box (wish I had that stat too).

Due to the overwhelming interest and response, I decided to pick up on it again.


I do find it a bit interesting that AWB has made only 4 successful passes into the penalty area (0,12 per 90 min). Brandon Williams and Luke Shaw is at 15 and 11 (1,82 and 1,13 per 90 min) on updated figures.

It is also worth noting that McTominay has made 9 while Matic has made 7. Meaning that Matic makes almost twice as many passes in to the penalty area per 90 min. McTominay is currently at 0,54 per 90 min. Matic is as 1,04.

I do think we have to few players that excel at passing the ball. In addition, we have a few players that probably has it as a weakness. This would be less of a problem if we had more players who where really good at it.

AWB and McT is good players and we rely heavily on them. But both of them have a weakness in their overall game that is also the overall weakness of our team. Both AWB and McT would look a lot better if we had more quality in the team as a whole. Most of the players at LFC are great passers, but the few who are not (and have others strengths) are not that exposed.

 

[andersj]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

In this analysis we see how few passes Lukaku received in the box at Man Utd compared to at Inter.

 

[Judas]

We've had a creativity issue at the club for so long, seeing as I struggle to remember the last time we had a proper RW threat. Nani or Valencia? Pathetic.

 

[Sky1981]

Pass to whom?

We could have Beckham in his prime and still won't score from Crosses.

Our striker (martial) doesn't want to get stuck in a crowded area.

 

[Grande]

There might be different opinions on this, but as I recall, we have had four very different consecutive managers pointing out that our players' confidence affects ability to speed up passing in the final third, and that we have had a weakness in getting the ball to our players in the box.

It makes you wonder if all the focus, high expectations and negativity around United from fans and media actually influences our team negatively more than the managers can make up for, regardless of who the players are.

 

[tjb]

It does show how weak we have been in getting the ball to the attack, but i blame the three behind the striker as opposed to the midfield duo. Rashford is doing a good job in this regard, Bruno hopefully changes this for us in attacking midfield, but this also highlights how badly we need to sign a right winger or Right attacking midfielder. We don't have enough contribution from there.

 

[lex talionis]

The problem is a combination of factors. Our final ball is generally poor, there’s little anticipation by a third player, and Martial is not a proper striker.

Apart from successful counterattacking against sides which have a go at us, there are no discernible tactics of any kind. We hope for magic but magic rarely ever comes. Martial sulks too much, James is burned out and Greenwood needs to be protected, and is. So we’ve got nothing up front when Rashford is out, and without Pogba we have little engine activity in midfield. Maybe Bruno changes everything but up until now we’ve suffered from a comedy of errors in attack.