Penalties and different opinions

[Member 113277]

Against Spurs (Fri 19 June) we were awarded two penalties

1. Dier laid hands on Pogba - clear penalty IMO, yet a Spurs fan opined it was soft, as did Maureen
2. Dier didn't make contact with Bruno - over turned by VAR, quite correctly, yet a Utd fan asked how likely it would not have been overturned if Liverpool were awarded it

The laws are clear that impeding a player results in a direct free kick - Dier actually pushed Pogba's arm - for me it's end of discussion, shouldn't matter if he goes down or not.

On the other one, when the defender does not make contact with the attacker (and displays no apparent intent to foul him) - again it's end of discussion, VAR will overturn those all day long as it's clearly a refereering error (though understandable, in real time)

Just wondering what others think?

Here's a link to the highlights
The action leading to the first penalty award starts at 1:51 and the second at 2:29.

 

[Bubz27]

The general consensus with the second 'pen' is that it is never a penalty, and rightly so. Saying what if it was Liverpool etc is nonsense. Not one United fan will say it was a penalty.

The first pen was a clear as day penalty and no one can have a valid complaint against it. Pogba done him, Dier panicked and grabbed him. No discussion whatsoever.

 

[hellhunter]

First one was soft but I think correct, second nowhere near a penalty.

 

[kiristao]

Both decisions were spot on.
Questions of whether Liverpool will get it turned around or not and stuff arises only because of the grey area surrounding the "clear and obvious error" part. An error is an error. Few games back Fred (or was it Bruno) was booked for diving when there was clear contact. VAR didn't overrule because apparently it wasn't a clear and obvious error. This creates this thinking of bias.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Both decisions were spot on.
Questions of whether Liverpool will get it turned around or not and stuff arises only because of the grey area surrounding the "clear and obvious error" part. An error is an error. Few games back Fred (or was it Bruno) was booked for diving when there was clear contact. VAR didn't overrule because apparently it wasn't a clear and obvious error. This creates this thinking of bias.

It was Fred against City

 

[SadlerMUFC]

The right decisions were made. I understand why the ref called a penalty on the Bruno play as the defender did lunge, but the replay clearly showed that the lunging foot didn't make contact. Then Bruno takes a couple steps backwards and trips over the defender, but the defender did nothing wrong. No penalty and play on regardless of what team it is against. Mind you, we have seen VAR screw up easier calls before. Hell, they messed up a goal for Sheffield United that should have been easy for them to call...

 

[Nickelodeon]

I think both decisions were correct. The Pogba one was soft but irrefutable in my opinion. Once Pogba was beyond him, a rash reaction, like Dier’s, was always going to a penalty. As hard as it was, it would’ve been better for his team had he accepted that he was beaten fair and square.

On the second one, it was a coming together. No dive, no penalty. As clear a situation as it could be. Jose just said what everyone expects out of him. He also mentioned that we had superior bench strength and used Jesse as an example. It would be sad if it weren’t so funny.

 

[HJ12]

Agree with both calls. Second was rightfully overturned.

With regards to the first penalty, if Steve Nicol says Jose's moaning for the sake of it then that says it all. http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=29335955

 

[Finn MacCool]

The “Liverpool would have been awarded it” analysis doesn’t stack up. We have had 13 penalties awarded since the start of 18/19 - in the same time Utd have had 24 awarded. I admit we got a couple of soft ones in that period especially during 18/19 but we certainly haven’t been awarded huge numbers of penalties as the stats clearly show.

Last night I think VAR got both calls correct.

 

[Member 113277]

The “Liverpool would have been awarded it” analysis doesn’t stack up. We have had 13 penalties awarded since the start of 18/19 - in the same time Utd have had 24 awarded. I admit we got a couple of soft ones in that period especially during 18/19 but we certainly haven’t been awarded huge numbers of penalties as the stats clearly show.

Last night I think VAR got both calls correct.

Finn, just to make it clear, I'm not suggesting LIverpool are lucky with penalties, the quote was just an example to start the thread.

 

[Finn MacCool]

Finn, just to make it clear, I'm not suggesting LIverpool are lucky with penalties, the quote was just an example to start the thread.

No worries mate. Penalty discussions and decisions always bring out the biased nature of all football fans. It’s a good thread topic. I actually think we were lucky with a couple of awards but we don’t get them in large volumes. Penalties have had a bigger impact on Utds season - the ones you missed early on may prove very costly.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Don't think it's worth starting a new thread on the basis of a single deluded poster claiming the second one wouldn't be overturned if it was Liverpool.

It wasn't a pen, got overturned, the end.

 

[FootballHQ]

Watching all the old 80s/90s games during lockdown, so much harder to get a penalty awarded in those days. Plenty of handballs not given and players getting taken down by keepers but player just waved on.

 

[lsd]

Against Spurs (Fri 19 June) we were awarded two penalties

1. Dier laid hands on Pogba - clear penalty IMO, yet a Spurs fan opined it was soft, as did Maureen
2. Dier didn't make contact with Bruno - over turned by VAR, quite correctly, yet a Utd fan asked how likely it would not have been overturned if Liverpool were awarded it

The laws are clear that impeding a player results in a direct free kick - Dier actually pushed Pogba's arm - for me it's end of discussion, shouldn't matter if he goes down or not.

On the other one, when the defender does not make contact with the attacker (and displays no apparent intent to foul him) - again it's end of discussion, VAR will overturn those all day long as it's clearly a refereering error (though understandable, in real time)

Just wondering what others think?

Here's a link to the highlights
The action leading to the first penalty award starts at 1:51 and the second at 2:29.

Absolute nonsense to bring liverpool into it . Fernandes clearly dived and it was never a penalty . There is no debate about it

 

[Gasolin]

For me Bruno didn't dive, his body hits the defender and as a result, he's thrown away. No dive, and no penalty.

But a penalty is an important stat for me, because it means that we were bothering the other team enough and were getting closer to the box. So if United creates that much penalties, it's because the opponent is late and only sees that as a last resort. It's a positive for United. Next time, the opposition will have to think: would I concede a penalty, or just let them face the keeper because it's better than giving away a penalty? Hopefully, teams start understanding that and just let us face the keeper 1 to 1.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

First is fairly soft in that he doesn't hack Pogba down, but it's not a dive, he causes Pogba to go over and Dier is punished for being stupid. I'd be raging if one of our defenders gave away a penalty in the same circumstances. It was the right decision by the referee and from VAR to not overturn it.

Second one definitely isn't a penalty. I don't care if it would or wouldn't have been overturned for Liverpool, that's a bit of a tinfoil-hat approach to it. It was a wild call that didn't look a penalty in real time from the zoomed out TV camera view, so I've no idea what Moss was seeing at ground level. It was just two players coming together. Correctly overturned. Shouldn't have been called in the first place.

 

[Member 113277]

Watching all the old 80s/90s games during lockdown, so much harder to get a penalty awarded in those days. Plenty of handballs not given and players getting taken down by keepers but player just waved on.

I agree - I started watching football in the late 60s (as a schoolkid) and gaining a penalty required attempted murder at a minimum ;-)

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

If a player is feeling it, like today I'm happy when they rotate. It was clear Rashford needed a goal.

 

[cyberman]

Rashford having the confidence of scoring goals outweighs the odd pen he would miss v Brunos rate.