Pep's spending is insane

VJ1762

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Personally can't understand how anyone could rate Guardiola above Klopp.

In my opinion the job Klopp has done at Liverpool far surpasses any job Guardiola has ever done. He's taken a shower of shit that were eighth in the table to being the best in Europe whilst spending about three or four times less than Guardiola after inheriting a squad nowhere near as good (or expensive) as the one Guardiola inherited.

If I could choose one person to be United's manager, it would be Klopp. Guardiola for me is the second best in the world, and I'd love to see how he'd do in a situation like Klopp found himself in when he took over at Liverpool.

Doubt we'll ever see it though to be honest. I think if it started going a bit wrong for Guardiola, he'd just retire. Not sure his ego could cope with having his stock fall, so I think he'd just get out of the game before finding himself in a Jose esque situation, and he'd never take a challenging job whilst his stock is as high as it is now. To he fair, how many would step down just to prove a point?
You would want Klopp at United? I certainly don't want ex Liverpool, City or Leeds managers.

Why would guardiola take a step 'down' in his career? His methods are proven and if he decided to quit City tomorrow, the who's who of Europe's big clubs would be waiting to sign him as their coach. Ultimately, he will be judged by the number of trophies he has won, so why would he minimise his chances of success.
 

adexkola

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You would want Klopp at United? I certainly don't want ex Liverpool, City or Leeds managers.

Why would guardiola take a step 'down' in his career? His methods are proven and if he decided to quit City tomorrow, the who's who of Europe's big clubs would be waiting to sign him as their coach. Ultimately, he will be judged by the number of trophies he has won, so why would he minimise his chances of success.
I refer you to

One of two things needs to happen

1. He needs to do a Mourinho (many people say he's better than Guardiola so this may be the most logical choice). Fail completely at City, and the next big club that gives him a chance... Until no big club with resources is willing to hire him. Then go to a smaller club with limited resources, and then contrary to his scorched earth history of the previous 3 years, builds a club up while keeping his net spend below 49.2 million per month in 2023 figures

2. Disturbed by the football observers writing his record off as luck or "Pardew would have done that", he leaves City and takes over Swansea, Girona or Palermo. He attempts to bring them to the top while maintaining a positive net spend, and ignoring the same football observers blasting him for a lack of ambition shown by him refusing to manage their club.

Whatever track he chooses, he needs to show he can win without tiki taka. 'ave it Brexit route 1 football needs to be part of his journey. Definitely pragmatism, loads of that.
 

Cantonagotmehere

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Using Pep’s spending as a factor to rationalise his success is akin to saying Apple hasn’t achieved anything if they can’t sell the same iPhone for $100.

There is a reason people pay more for an iPhone in the first place. They have a proven track record of success at the highest level. They would be foolish to sell it for any lesser.

Similarly, why should Guardiola give up being on the forefront of football success to grind out wins with a lesser team just to score points with internet critics who doubt his capability?

What ???
 

Cantonagotmehere

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Also highlights his lack of Plan B in the real "last chance saloon" moments of high end European knock out football.

He can't be excused for his lack of CL success post Barca, especially at City where his has spent ungodly sums of money and never got beyond the quarter finals.
Exactly. Don't look at that record because it's not good.....
 

matbezlima

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If any top manager (Klopp or Mourinho for example) had inherited the squad he did at City, then went on to spend the amount he has (more then any club has done in premier league history). They would also succeed like Pep.
You are missing the points. It is not just about the trophies, it is how Guardiola wins them: he makes the best players in the world play even better and often humiliating their adversaries. He won the PL with 100 points and 98! Also played awesome football! Very few, if any, top manager in the world can make their squads reach such a consistency and play football as awesome and dominating as Pep. He extracts the best of his players like very few managers can. I see only Klopp as a rival to him now.
 

matbezlima

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You would want Klopp at United? I certainly don't want ex Liverpool, City or Leeds managers.

Why would guardiola take a step 'down' in his career? His methods are proven and if he decided to quit City tomorrow, the who's who of Europe's big clubs would be waiting to sign him as their coach. Ultimately, he will be judged by the number of trophies he has won, so why would he minimise his chances of success.
Guardiola is essentially the main responsible in creating the best team ever perhaps. Such kind of achievement is what makes coaches such as Michels, Cruyff and Sacchi so highly regarded even if they did not much notable sucess coaching underdogs. Sacchi in special was a failure after his awesome work with Milan.
 

matbezlima

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I refer you to
Guardiola does not want to win without possession football. He always wants to him playing fantastic football and in the way that he wants. He even said, I think, that he does not want victories and titles without also playing fantastic and offensive football.
 

VJ1762

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Guardiola does not want to win without possession football. He always wants to him playing fantastic football and in the way that he wants. He even said, I think, that he does not want victories and titles without also playing fantastic and offensive football.
He is sarcastic I think.
 

VJ1762

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I refer you to
It's jealousy, really. I wanted him as the 1st option to replace Fergie in 2013, but he went to Bayern. I might be remembering it wrongly, but apparently Fergie even met with him in New York, but ultimately, it was to no avail. If he had become our manager, our recent history might have been so different...

I am just praying that he decides to go somewhere else in 2 or 3 years. The Man City machine doesn't look like stopping any time soon.
 

romufc

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Jose inherited a much weaker squad. With a much lower value to start with. So the measure equivalent investment would have required much more spending from United.
Yes, you can compare one example.

If we flip it and look at Klopp's Liverpool and the value team he took over compared with United there is a huge contrast there.

Jose got 2nd but he didn't exactly challenge, football was rubbish.
 

KirkDuyt

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Well you know, you really can't play proactive unless you have money. You think Pep's methods would work in the Championship?
No prpbably not, but maybe he could adapt. He's never had to try after all. I dont think Neill Warnock would be better at it than him.
 

kaiser1

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If any top manager (Klopp or Mourinho for example) had inherited the squad he did at City, then went on to spend the amount he has (more then any club has done in premier league history). They would also succeed like Pep.
No they wont. The Chelsea Mourinho inherited in 2004 was similar or even better than City in 2016. Yet Mourinho did not hit 100points in the league
 

fergiesarmy1

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No they wont. The Chelsea Mourinho inherited in 2004 was similar or even better than City in 2016. Yet Mourinho did not hit 100points in the league
Didn’t need to in those days
 

0le

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For however great Pep's city team has been, its undeniable that Chelsea, Arsenal and United have declined through their period of success. Spurs remain bottlers in the league. Liverpool are the only one to give them any competition whatsoever. I think if Chelsea and United got their act together, it would be a lot more difficult for Pep to win. However you could also make the same argument with United/Arsenal battling it out for the league many years ago. Having said that, he is the best manager in the league alongside Klopp and he will go down as one of the greatest.
 

romufc

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If any top manager (Klopp or Mourinho for example) had inherited the squad he did at City, then went on to spend the amount he has (more then any club has done in premier league history). They would also succeed like Pep.
No...

Jose inherited an ok United squad spent money and got nowhere.
 

Son

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No...

Jose inherited an ok United squad spent money and got nowhere.
Jose won us Trophies then finished second in the league to the best team ever in the division before Woodward and the Glazers pulled the plug on him.

Hardly a poor record with any team.
 

romufc

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Jose won us Trophies then finished second in the league to the best team ever in the division before Woodward and the Glazers pulled the plug on him.

Hardly a poor record with any team.
Ohhh yeah I forgot we need to start celebrating 2nd place finish.

The trophies he won - EL and League cup - Ones that big teams don't take seriously or don't compete in.

Pulled the plug rightly.. do you not remember the type of football Jose played? 1 shot on target per game if we were lucky.

I suggest you go watch Sevilla V United highlights.
 

Henrik7

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He's managed Barcelona, Bayern Munich and City.

I'd be interested to see him up here in charge of Aberdeen or something :lol:
 

Son

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Ohhh yeah I forgot we need to start celebrating 2nd place finish.

The trophies he won - EL and League cup - Ones that big teams don't take seriously or don't compete in.

Pulled the plug rightly.. do you not remember the type of football Jose played? 1 shot on target per game if we were lucky.

I suggest you go watch Sevilla V United highlights.
I watched the full game and it was awful albeit still better football than we managed against Barcelona away last season. At least we had some hope in the Sevilla game.

Sevilla where actually a lot better than some would have you believe and I’ve seen a great Milan side knocked out by Deportivo in the 00’s after been 4 goals up in he first leg. Anything can happen in the CL knockouts.

Barcelona, Cardiff and Everton are some of the most embarrassing performances ever by a United side and that happened after Mourinho. Again though it’s all circumstance.

Isn’t Mourinho our 3rd or 4th best manager ever btw?
 

romufc

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I watched the full game and it was awful albeit still better football than we managed against Barcelona away last season. At least we had some hope in the Sevilla game.

Sevilla where actually a lot better than some would have you believe and I’ve seen a great Milan side knocked out by Deportivo in the 00’s after been 4 goals up in he first leg. Anything can happen in the CL knockouts.

Barcelona, Cardiff and Everton are some of the most embarrassing performances ever by a United side and that happened after Mourinho. Again though it’s all circumstance.

Isn’t Mourinho our 3rd or 4th best manager ever btw?
Yes, let's compare Sevilla to Barcelona.

But it wasn't a one off was it? Our football was absolutely shocking that season, we scrapped so much.

Last season was Jose team, can we compare this season's performances under Ole ?

What has that got to do with how he performed at Utd? He could be the best ever manager for all I care.

That just shows that even a manager with Pedigree can't turn our fortunes around, we should realise the cause is not the manager.
 

Son

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Yes, let's compare Sevilla to Barcelona.

But it wasn't a one off was it? Our football was absolutely shocking that season, we scrapped so much.

Last season was Jose team, can we compare this season's performances under Ole ?

What has that got to do with how he performed at Utd? He could be the best ever manager for all I care.

That just shows that even a manager with Pedigree can't turn our fortunes around, we should realise the cause is not the manager.
I agree he needed to go in the end.

Part of it was him not getting his transfer targets and he spat his dummy out insulting what our club stood for at the same time.

His first 2 years where pretty decent though. I've got good memories of the first one especially.
The Europa League win was pretty awesome as was Zlatan in the League Cup final scoring that screamer. Even winning the FA Cup under Van Gaal.

I hope Woodward and Ole can make progress now I really do. We're lucky we have youth coming through.
Still think Pep has the best youth setup and youth player in England in Phil Foden! That kid is special. City would have owned Diaz and Sancho too if they gave them a bit of playing time.
They are doing something right obviously and it's unfair to everyone else due to the giant amounts of investment in facilities.
 

Bearded One

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We usualy underrate Pep but forget that he too had to start from somewhere and never looked back from there. We want to play down his time at Barca and act like the trophies he won there do not count - but they do. Yes people like Di Matteo won UCL but what happened to him afterwards? Ancelloti wouldn't go to Napoli if Bayern didn't do away with him. This was Pep's successor.

Pep's naiveness always gets exposed in CL knockout stages and that I believe is the valid downside to his abilities/achievements but claims that he needs to also cut it at Burnley are BS.

His consistency at the top level is unrivalled and this is true when you consider that City, Bayern and Barca have had managers before and after him. I love Klopp and I think he is one of the very best in the world but I also know that spending/club prestige puts you on a very risky lane that you have little margin for error and little pardon claims. Klopp had to build for 3 years. Prestigious Man United, Real, Barca or money spraying City wouldn't put up with that, ever. I just think these are valid matters to consider too.

It is for this reason I feel like managers like Pochettino still have a lot to proove to get into that bracket. I see Spurs like a comfort zone for him. Can he cut it at a club where expectations are over the roof rather than at a place where he is assured of his position if he achieves a not-so stretching target with a team he has moulded for a fair few years? I think he can do it at Real but my position needs validating too.
 

Joe Cole Is Exhausted

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We usualy underrate Pep but forget that he too had to start from somewhere and never looked back from there. We want to play down his time at Barca and act like the trophies he won there do not count - but they do. Yes people like Di Matteo won UCL but what happened to him afterwards? Ancelloti wouldn't go to Napoli if Bayern didn't do away with him. This was Pep's successor.

Pep's naiveness always gets exposed in CL knockout stages and that I believe is the valid downside to his abilities/achievements but claims that he needs to also cut it at Burnley are BS.

His consistency at the top level is unrivalled and this is true when you consider that City, Bayern and Barca have had managers before and after him. I love Klopp and I think he is one of the very best in the world but I also know that spending/club prestige puts you on a very risky lane that you have little margin for error and little pardon claims. Klopp had to build for 3 years. Prestigious Man United, Real, Barca or money spraying City wouldn't put up with that, ever. I just think these are valid matters to consider too.

It is for this reason I feel like managers like Pochettino still have a lot to proove to get into that bracket. I see Spurs like a comfort zone for him. Can he cut it at a club where expectations are over the roof rather than at a place where he is assured of his position if he achieves a not-so stretching target with a team he has moulded for a fair few years? I think he can do it at Real but my position needs validating too.
This is really well stated. Pep is well-funded, but we expect him to never lose, and he very rarely does.
 

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Pep inability to win the CL with City or Bayern is undoubtedly a failure on his part. If you have the most extensive squad by far in history, you must win.
 

RooneyLegend

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Am i the only one that knows that he didn't spend ungodly amounts of money to take Barca to where he took them? Also that they had, had 2 empty seasons before he took over hence Rijkaard had lost his job? not only that but they also managed to embarrass the defending CL champions in the finals.

He got to City with them faffing about in a similar place to us. Then they invested 400 million and suddenly were a 100 point side. Us, after spending 400 million we were a 81 point side without a hope of challenging. Credit to Klopp after investing similar amounts he won a CL and his team got 97 points.

Not giving him any credit for what he's done is foolish.
 

adexkola

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Am i the only one that knows that he didn't spend ungodly amounts of money to take Barca to where he took them? Also that they had, had 2 empty seasons before he took over hence Rijkaard had lost his job? not only that but they also managed to embarrass the defending CL champions in the finals.

He got to City with them faffing about in a similar place to us. Then they invested 400 million and suddenly were a 100 point side. Us, after spending 400 million we were a 81 point side without a hope of challenging. Credit to Klopp after investing similar amounts he won a CL and his team got 97 points.

Not giving him any credit for what he's done is foolish.
If you ignore the history from the time (as documented by newspaper articles and Redcafe posts), Barcelona were a dormant world class team that even Moyes could have rode to 3 CLs because, he, unlike Pep, could be pragmatic and park the bus.
 

romufc

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I agree he needed to go in the end.

Part of it was him not getting his transfer targets and he spat his dummy out insulting what our club stood for at the same time.

His first 2 years where pretty decent though. I've got good memories of the first one especially.
The Europa League win was pretty awesome as was Zlatan in the League Cup final scoring that screamer. Even winning the FA Cup under Van Gaal.

I hope Woodward and Ole can make progress now I really do. We're lucky we have youth coming through.
Still think Pep has the best youth setup and youth player in England in Phil Foden! That kid is special. City would have owned Diaz and Sancho too if they gave them a bit of playing time.
They are doing something right obviously and it's unfair to everyone else due to the giant amounts of investment in facilities.
Agreed, I remember Jose's first 3 games when I thought, this is Manutd and then the chelsea result came and everything went tits up.

Zlatan gave good memories, but did you watch some of the highlights of Kompany's testimonial? Scholes and RVP showed us what we are missing.

Pep has him but is not using him when he is dubbed as the most talented youth coming through, whilst we are screaming to use Gomes and having a go at Ole for not giving him game time.

The front 3 of Sterling, Aguero and Sancho would have been too much.
 

Shamana

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Am i the only one that knows that he didn't spend ungodly amounts of money to take Barca to where he took them? Also that they had, had 2 empty seasons before he took over hence Rijkaard had lost his job? not only that but they also managed to embarrass the defending CL champions in the finals.

He got to City with them faffing about in a similar place to us. Then they invested 400 million and suddenly were a 100 point side. Us, after spending 400 million we were a 81 point side without a hope of challenging. Credit to Klopp after investing similar amounts he won a CL and his team got 97 points.

Not giving him any credit for what he's done is foolish.
City were not in a similar place to us when Guardiola arrived.
 

gibers

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City were not in a similar place to us when Guardiola arrived.
Errr results wise they were. We should have finished above them if we didn't mess up our last few games. We finished level on point with them. We have spent almost the same amount of money since Pep came and the difference is night and day.
 

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Pep inability to win the CL with City or Bayern is undoubtedly a failure on his part. If you have the most extensive squad by far in history, you must win.
Yeah he's a league manager. His tactics dominate almost all teams, but it's less effective when it gets to the CL and there's lot of big teams that can play just as quick. Doesn't mean to say he won't win it eventually.
 

DoneDaDa

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Yeah he's a league manager. His tactics dominate almost all teams, but it's less effective when it gets to the CL and there's lot of big teams that can play just as quick. Doesn't mean to say he won't win it eventually.
Except the two teams he's been KOed in the last 2 CL have been from the league he dominates.

It has little to with style if anything he doesn't use his style in CL away games and tries being more safe.
 

VeevaVee

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Except the two teams he's been KOed in the last 2 CL have been from the league he dominates.

It has little to with style if anything he doesn't use his style in CL away games and tries being more safe.
Yeah but he doesn't dominate against Liverpool and hasn't had to in the league because they beat everyone else. That's kinda my point. He failed to adapt his tactics against them for a good while and it didn't go very well, which obviously has worse consequences in the CL.

Similarly but on a lesser scale with Spurs, the gravitas of the game this time meant a more level playing field and they didn't dominate.
 

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Pep inability to win the CL with City or Bayern is undoubtedly a failure on his part. If you have the most extensive squad by far in history, you must win.
That's like judging Mourinho's inhability to win the CL with Real Madrid, Chelsea or United, saying he can only coach underdogs.

There's a lot of things that go into a UCL title run, not all of them are within the grasp of 11 players and the manager. Football is full of moments that have made careers and legends, Iniesta's strike vs Chelsea fuels Guardiola's legend as much as all the titles and record he's set through the years. End of the line, if you want to be fair, you can only ask of a manager to contend titles and even when he loses, to keep the appearance that the objetive was withing grasp.