Player rumblings against Fergie

[Adebisi's Hat]

My take is to stick with ETH and (alleged) rumblings from players just make me more firm on this.

This got me thinking though and have a couple of questions for those around during the late 80s. Did with the horrible results at that time and with all the 'Tra Fergie ' stuff, did any of the players ever come out against Fergie or were there even media rumours of such at the time? Also at 3 to 4 years into the Fergie era did it feel like he was a dead man walking or was there a confidence among at least some fans that he would turn it around ?

 

[Kinky Melinky]

ETH needs to be given time. There are assuredly things he has done that have caused me to question him, but sacking a manager before Jim enters the mix would really only create more chaos than its worth.

 

[red_de_pologne]

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

its amazing how the quip 'nothing is new under the sun' is so true. This letter and quote could 100% be applier to todays situation.
Dzięki for this bro.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

I have two questions
1- when has a journalist ever been right about their predictions ( not talking about obvious writing on the wall stuff)
2- When has a journalist ever helped a good cause, or gone against the grain and provided positivity when there is gloom and doom

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

I have two questions
1- when has a journalist ever been right about their predictions ( not talking about obvious writing on the wall stuff)
2- When has a journalist ever helped a good cause, or gone against the grain and provided positivity when there is gloom and doom

Its even worse now i think with so much clickbait , and Utd are clickbait central of the football and even the sporting world. Yes the day we take Chris Sutton seriously will be a bad time although i must say Romano is a good step above the rest, i have heard him even come out to refute BS stories from other journalists which is probably not usually the done thing.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

its amazing how the quip 'nothing is new under the sun' is so true. This letter and quote could 100% be applier to todays situation.
Dzięki for this bro.

Well, no - it couldn't.

If we, as supporters had any sort of faith in the hierarchy above ETH, I think many of us would happily be patient.

As it stands, though - no. It isn't comparable. It works as a general reminder that football fans are frequently ridiculously impatient, but it really doesn't apply to this particular situation.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

Well, no - it couldn't.

If we, as supporters had any sort of faith in the hierarchy above ETH, I think many of us would happily be patient.

As it stands, though - no. It isn't comparable. It works as a general reminder that football fans are frequently ridiculously impatient, but it really doesn't apply to this particular situation.

Fair enough, did supporters have big faith in the owners at that time though ?

 

[Gavinb33]

Well, no - it couldn't.

If we, as supporters had any sort of faith in the hierarchy above ETH, I think many of us would happily be patient.

As it stands, though - no. It isn't comparable. It works as a general reminder that football fans are frequently ridiculously impatient, but it really doesn't apply to this particular situation.

The fans in the 80's hated the board Edwards specifically

 

[Puskas_007]

The fans in the 80's hated the board Edwards specifically

Exactly, as it has always been, the narrative around the executive and the manager and the players all falls down to on-pitch performance - the noise is just more constant these days with social media and clickbait...

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The fans in the 80's hated the board Edwards specifically

Yes, fine.

That was poorly worded on my part.

Of course, nobody loved and trusted the owners back then either.

But the point is that you can't possibly - unless you're insanely naive - think that ETH can do anything like Fergie did back then given the current premise.

So, preaching "patience" is exactly what it was under Moyes, LVG, José, Ole and Ralf - no?

Patience if you believe something fundamental has changed? Sure, sign me up.

Patience with yet another "manager" under the same, non-existent "structure"? No, why?

 

[crossy1686]

What parallels are there between the squad Fergie inherited and the one Ten Hag has with 12 of his own players in it?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Fair enough, did supporters have big faith in the owners at that time though ?

As I said above, no they didn't.

But that isn't really the point. It was a very different world. Before the PL, for one thing.

The idea that one man could transform a sleeping giant was much more plausible back then. It isn't plausible at all now.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

As I said above, no they didn't.

But that isn't really the point. It was a very different world. Before the PL, for one thing.

The idea that one man could transform a sleeping giant was much more plausible back then. It isn't plausible at all now.

i agree in that i think no manager can make a proper go of it under the current Glazernomics system, but at least now with the Jimster coming in there maybe a chance of the 'fundamental change' you allude to actually happening. I have doubts of how far Jim can go with Joel Glazer looking over his shoulder but it still should herald the biggest structural change at the sporting side of the club for years. It really is a case of wait and see though for the moment.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

There were many players in the late 80s that went against SAF, but there was VERY LITTLE player power.

Many of those players didn’t even have agents… let alone super agents guiding their careers and so on.

The above point can’t really be overstated.

There was also far less football media to exploit and no direct statement outlets as is now the case with social media.

And then the fact that SAF was utterly ruthless to the point of perhaps being a very high functioning psychopath (please note - not saying he was a bad person), and thus anyone who directly crossed him was obliterated, humiliated and made an example of.

 

[Ikon]

Absolutely priceless....

 

[gaffs]

 

[Mercurial]

 

[simonhch]

It’s hard to call. So much wrong with the club. I’ve firmly been ETH in, but Wednesdays game pushed me more to the out camp mainly because of a lot of his quotes recently. He was hired because of the football he played at Ajax and now he claims to be building a completely different type of team. Having spent so much money, that is in itself somewhat alarming and I don’t know what to make of it. Whether this is a misguided direction from above or what.

The sensible thing is to wait for Jim to come in and see what structure they put in place. I think it’s fair to say that no manager will succeed here under the current structure. Yet…… getting the basics right anyone should be able to do, and we aren’t, so that is very alarming.

We’ve seen this cycle many times before and the one common denominator is the Glazers. So maybe we start with the sporting structure and then make a decision on the manager. Frankly I’m at a loss at this point.

 

[el3mel]

Oh look, the Ferguson excuse. How novel. I have only seen it 1000 times during the previous 11 years. Managers perform like shit : Give him time as Fergie needed 5 years to become good.

 

[Red in STL]

The fans in the 80's hated the board Edwards specifically

Then Knighton came along and we realized that maybe Edwards wasn't quite as bad as we thought!

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Amazing

Plus Ça Change

 

[sparx99]

Yes, fine.

That was poorly worded on my part.

Of course, nobody loved and trusted the owners back then either.

But the point is that you can't possibly - unless you're insanely naive - think that ETH can do anything like Fergie did back then given the current premise.

So, preaching "patience" is exactly what it was under Moyes, LVG, José, Ole and Ralf - no?

Patience if you believe something fundamental has changed? Sure, sign me up.

Patience with yet another "manager" under the same, non-existent "structure"? No, why?

I guess the answer lies in figuring out if

1. Would Moyes, Mourinho, LVG, Ole or now ETH have eventually figured out how best to work with the Glazers and then been more successful in the long term?

2. If any of those managers had a longer timeframe with which to squad-build would they have made better transfer decisions? For example, would ETH have said no to Casemiro and gone for Caicedo or Rice a year later knowing he’s building for the long term not to keep his job right now.

The problem with a lack of patience such as it is is that you never can know what might have been. It’s a mystery box. Maybe Mourinho or Moyes or LVG needed more time. Maybe we keep cutting ourselves off at the knees because progress didn’t happen as fast or as linearly as we wanted it to.

 

[lsd]

I don't think things were allowed to simmer with Fergie. If there were issues with him it was bought out in the open between the parties concerned.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It really is a case of wait and see though for the moment.

Yes.

I don't know what to think with regard to Ratcliffe.

But if he actually gains control over "the football side", the very first thing he needs to do is to discard the idea of any "manager" figure resembling Alex Ferguson.

We need a proper structure, not a genius "manager".

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Oh look, the Ferguson excuse. How novel. I have only seen it 1000 times during the previous 11 years. Managers perform like shit : Give him time as Fergie needed 5 years to become good.

It's incredible. Posters have been using the same excuse since 2013 and yet every time someone uses it they think it's an "eureka!" moment they've stumbled upon.

 

[Still ill]

My memory of those days were that it was a very different kind of depression. I was deeply unhappy with United under Fergie in the early years, he'd jettisoned McGrath and Whiteside, players I loved, without improving anything. We never threatened top spot under big Ron, not really, not in the run in to the title and there wasn't even the craic that came with cup runs in his early days. But it wasn't real anger for me anyway because I'd known nothing else. We'd always been shite in the league. No Internet meant no rumblings of discontent unless you mean amongst your mates and that's always there, isn't it? But yeah, it looked like he was a goner and few tears would have been shed. The lesson I took from it, and I'll never forget it, is that I have zero clue what's really going on. That's a good lesson.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I guess the answer lies in figuring out if

1. Would Moyes, Mourinho, LVG, Ole or now ETH have eventually figured out how best to work with the Glazers and then been more successful in the long term?

2. If any of those managers had a longer timeframe with which to squad-build would they have made better transfer decisions? For example, would ETH have said no to Casemiro and gone for Caicedo or Rice a year later knowing he’s building for the long term not to keep his job right now.

The problem with a lack of patience such as it is is that you never can know what might have been. It’s a mystery box. Maybe Mourinho or Moyes or LVG needed more time. Maybe we keep cutting ourselves off at the knees because progress didn’t happen as fast or as linearly as we wanted it to.

Maybe. But no.

(For me: no. I don't think any of those "managers" would have/will eventually gotten/get it right as a solo figure/saviour type. It ain't gonna happen. Sorry. I have said for nearly a decade now that we need someone above the "manager" to - potentially, at least - save us. I stand by that.)

 

[Red_toad]

My take is to stick with ETH and (alleged) rumblings from players just make me more firm on this.

This got me thinking though and have a couple of questions for those around during the late 80s. Did with the horrible results at that time and with all the 'Tra Fergie ' stuff, did any of the players ever come out against Fergie or were there even media rumours of such at the time? Also at 3 to 4 years into the Fergie era did it feel like he was a dead man walking or was there a confidence among at least some fans that he would turn it around ?

United didn't have shite hawks like Goldbridge etc peddling shite on social media. Fergie took out Whiteside, McGrath and a few others for their drinking culture, so pretty sure he'd have made himself unpopular in the dressing room. But he came out the other side with authority and anyone he signed knew they'd lose. He was ruthless when he needed to be, as should all managers be.

 

[sparx99]

Maybe. But no.

(For me: no. I don't think any of those "managers" would have/will eventually gotten/get it right as a solo figure/saviour type. It ain't gonna happen. Sorry. I have said for nearly a decade now that we need someone above the "manager" to - potentially, at least - save us. I stand by that.)

We have literally put a DOF in place though and people still want ETH sacked and I’ve seen very few calling for John Murtough to be fired.

I imagine because Murtough hasn’t actually been in charge long enough to have turned it around. We have made massive cuts to the wage bill, released the likes of Jones and Bailly. Cut adrift fringe youth players.

There is a possibility we are in fact trying to change the culture and what we are seeing is growing pains. This could actually be a ‘transition’ period.

 

[lsd]

Oh look, the Ferguson excuse. How novel. I have only seen it 1000 times during the previous 11 years. Managers perform like shit : Give him time as Fergie needed 5 years to become good.

I find it really insulting to Fergie as it's basically saying he only came good because of time and it had little to do with his own managerial ability

 

[Loon]

Fair enough, did supporters have big faith in the owners at that time though ?

Martin Edwards and Bobby Charlton stood by him. They saw what he was doing behind the scenes.

 

[Cerberus]

To the people comparing our managers being given time with Fergie, what manager of ours in the last 10 years has left this club and had massive success elsewhere? If our main issue is not giving managers time, then we should see the likes of Mourinho, Ole and LVG winning top honours right now.

 

[Oranges038]

My take is to stick with ETH and (alleged) rumblings from players just make me more firm on this.

This got me thinking though and have a couple of questions for those around during the late 80s. Did with the horrible results at that time and with all the 'Tra Fergie ' stuff, did any of the players ever come out against Fergie or were there even media rumours of such at the time? Also at 3 to 4 years into the Fergie era did it feel like he was a dead man walking or was there a confidence among at least some fans that he would turn it around ?

You're trying to draw a comparison to the media rumblings against SAF in his early days to what we are hearing coming out against ETH. Good luck to you getting any reasonable responses. You'll just be accused of comparing ETH to SAF etc etc..

The usual ETH out bellends don't even read the post. What they see is, "ETH can be the new SAF, he just needs another 26 years." So they'll just post the same nonsense in here as they have everywhere else.

Like this crap.

What parallels are there between the squad Fergie inherited and the one Ten Hag has with 12 of his own players in it?

Oh look, the Ferguson excuse. How novel. I have only seen it 1000 times during the previous 11 years. Managers perform like shit : Give him time as Fergie needed 5 years to become good.

 

[red_de_pologne]

To the people comparing our managers being given time with Fergie, what manager of ours in the last 10 years has left this club and had massive success elsewhere? If our main issue is not giving managers time, then we should see the likes of Mourinho, Ole and LVG winning top honours right now.

You could argue that LVG did very well with dutch NT, and Jose had success with Roma (relevant to the club's size), then you have Moyes who is doing pretty well for West Ham

 

[Still ill]

I find it really insulting to Fergie as it's basically saying he only came good because of time and it had little to do with his own managerial ability

Please. I don't think you need to get insulted on Fergie's behalf. I'd give one of my testicles to seehow most of you guys would have reacted to us slipping 7 places to 11th in the table in his first year in charge. Never mind your reaction to us plummeting to 12th 3rd season in. Followed by 13th??!!! All this pious shit in relation to Fergie makes me want to kick people. Like we all knew it was coming. Such shite. He would have been massacred on here if it was nowadays. And I love the man. Obviously.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I don’t recall press speculation about the dressing room being unhappy back then. There was surprise and some dismay among fans when SAF binned McGrath and Whiteside but I can’t remember reading “sources close to Bryan Robson claim the United captain is surprised and disappointed by the departure of the only two players who can go round for round with him…….”

 

[Cerberus]

You could argue that LVG did very well with dutch NT, and Jose had success with Roma (relevant to the club's size), then you have Moyes who is doing pretty well for West Ham

That's fair. Although, I still think Mou is a spent force at the top level and Roma is essentially a mid-table side. The only manager I think calls for more time were somewhat justified for was LVG. Not to be revisionist about his time here because the football was very dire especially in the second season, but he's the only manager who actually implemented a style of play.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Please. I don't think you need to get insulted on Fergie's behalf. I'd give one of my testicles to seehow most of you guys would have reacted to us slipping 7 places to 11th in the table in his first year in charge. Never mind your reaction to us plummeting to 12th 3rd season in. Followed by 13th??!!! All this pious shit in relation to Fergie makes me want to kick people. Like we all knew it was coming. Such shite. He would have been massacred on here if it was nowadays. And I love the man. Obviously.

Well said. I have to admit that I had lost faith by 1989. I have probably posted this before but I always remember being in a pub somewhere near Wembley full of United fans heading back north after the 1990 cup final with Palace (the 3-3 game) and a lot of United fans were chanting (to the tune of “Alex Ferguson’s Red and White Army”) “Alex Ferguson’s UB40“ (a UB40 is the name of the form you get when you are made redundant for non-UK posters, as well as a crap Brummie reggie band). None of us knew how things would turn out and United fans loved a moan back then as well.

 

[NicolaSacco]

‘United will never win anything while he is the manager’. Wow.