"Players let Fergie down....."

[Franq]

"The players have let Fergie down"

Is what you hear/read everytime we get a dissapointing result. Either one the players or some United pundit says it, but its the same everytime and its beginning to annoy the hell out of me.

Since when do United play for their manager? Since when does a bad result mean the players didnt do their best? I honestly think there's something wrong in this kind of thinking; thinking its always down to the performances or dedication/commitment of the players....

When does somebody realize that with the players we have, we should be capable of a hell of a lot more on the pitch than is the case at this moment and that that hasnt got anything to do with a lack of commitment/dedication or just a plain and simple wrong attitude.....

"...WE NEED TO BUY HIM AND HIM AND THEN HIS BROTHER AND THEN HIM...." is all you hear when we lose a match. If there something that needs to be done it is get some decent coaching staff capable of letting the team play as if they've been playing with each other for a decade, they need to find each other blindfolded, they need to know what they're supposed to do before they do it, before they get the ball, they need to play with the knowledge that one mistake will not lead to a goal, they need to play with an idea and confidence, and not run with ball for ten meters and then lose it because they cant decide what to do.....

and oh yeah, before i fortget the stating the obvious....( )

Oshea, Brown, Phil Neville, Fletcher and Smith and Saha should not be in our first eleven but are excellent squad players, while some of the younger lads playing for the reserves could also serve as decent back-ups

(Carrol), Sylvestre, Miller, Kleberson, Fortune and Bellion should be sold...

A central defender and a central midfielder should be bought...

 

[ManRyan]

Players win titles.

 

[Franq]

Players win titles.

No, they dont (except for player of the year etc...)

TEAMS win titles, and in order to do so, they must have a number of qualities as a whole and not just individually. Thats the whole point. WRT to quality players; PSV cant even come close to us, yet they totally outplayed Milan, a side which is regarded as one of the best in the world... We struggle to win at West Bromwich Albion, oh wait, no, we drawed against them....

 

[pbrown]

No, they dont (except for player of the year etc...)

TEAMS win titles, and in order to do so, they must have a number of qualities as a whole and not just individually. Thats the whole point. WRT to quality players; PSV cant even come close to us, yet they totally outplayed Milan, a side which is regarded as one of the best in the world... We struggle to win at West Bromwich Albion, oh wait, no, we drawed against them....

Gotta agree with Fang here... We have the talent on this team to play better then 22 points behind Chelski. I think it is a 2 way street and the management has to receive some blame here also.. I know that the players play the game but the manager and coaching staff are responsible for tactics and motivating the team to win games... There has been a disconnect all year between the two.. IMO

 

[uranushk1]

Agree. People can say forever that Chelski won the title because they have more money than us, but then we are also behind Arsenal for the 2nd successive season.

Comparing individual players there are really very little between the top 3, but the result now seems indicate that our problem lies on elsewhere. The manager and coaches have to do much better next season, to organize, motivate the team and to be more smart in tactical aspect.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

Say what you like about the players, the tactics have been appauling this season. I can think of just 1 time this season where the tactics suited the match and that was the 4 -2 at Arsenal.

In the rest we made a lot of huge tactical errors and the man to take the blame is SAF.

He needs to buck his ideas now. One more season of chopping and changing, not playing enough players in attacking areas or dithering over buying a half decent keeper and I'll lose faith in him. He's done great things, but perhaps that's all past tense now?

 

[Fortitude]

Say what you like about the players, the tactics have been appauling this season. I can think of just 1 time this season where the tactics suited the match and that was the 4 -2 at Arsenal.

In the rest we made a lot of huge tactical errors and the man to take the blame is SAF.

He needs to buck his ideas now. One more season of chopping and changing, not playing enough players in attacking areas or dithering over buying a half decent keeper and I'll lose faith in him. He's done great things, but perhaps that's all past tense now?

Why are you not blaming Queiroz then?

 

[Looking Busy]

It's mistakes from top to bottom this season.
Fergie has to take some of the blame, he picks the team, has the final say on tactics etc.
Carlos we all believe has the biggest input in terms of tactic
The players haven't been anywhere near their best or looked motivated.
The board haven't handled Rio's contract issue well either.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

Why are you not blaming Queiroz then?

Because SAF is his boss and the final decision is down to him.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

It's mistakes from top to bottom this season.
Fergie has to take some of the blame, he picks the team, has the final say on tactics etc.
Carlos we all believe has the biggest input in terms of tactic
The players haven't been anywhere near their best or looked motivated.
The board haven't handled Rio's contract issue well either.

Added to that, Ruud made his injury worse by not reporting it soon enough and getting treatment.

Ferdinand missed the beginning of the season through his own fault too.

 

[uranushk1]

Why are you not blaming Queiroz then?

Good point. I also begin to have my doubt on Queiroz recently.

 

[Looking Busy]

Good point. I also begin to have my doubt on Queiroz recently.

You can devise the best tactics possible, but if the manager doesn't pick the right players, doesn't listen to you and the players aren't motivated you're screwed

 

[Fortitude]

Because SAF is his boss and the final decision is down to him.

Fergie has to implicitly trust his #2. We've tried a different approach and it doesn't suit us. I hope we go back to what we know next season.

 

[uranushk1]

You can devise the best tactics possible, but if the manager doesn't pick the right players, doesn't listen to you and the players aren't motivated you're screwed

But we really don't know whether it is Fergie not listen to Querioz, or it is Querioz not suggesting a work tactic to Fergie, isn't it?

 

[Looking Busy]

But we really don't know whether it is Fergie not listen to Querioz, or it is Querioz not suggesting a work tactic to Fergie, isn't it?

Either way, one of them has got it wrong on too many occassions this season

 

[Still thinking of a name]

Either way, one of them has got it wrong on too many occassions this season

An embarressing amount of times.

 

[giggsyflying]

a manager should take the blame because he is responsible for the buying, tactics, substitutes, etc
however, at the end of the day, it is the performance of players determining the results
saf takes the blame but it does not mean the players do not have any fault
the point is that saf takes the blame for players let him down
is it his fault the same squard won arse and liverpool but lost to norwich, and drew the games against bottom half teams?

 

[Fortitude]

Of course it's the players. Actually it's the injuries to the players and the weakness of our bench plus Quieroz's theories not working out. Fergie cannot be wholly absolved, but in this mess he's less cupable than others.

In times gone by a poor showing would mean benching and rotation. These days the divide between the bench and the 1st team is so huge we have little options to chose from. The striker crisis counts for a lot. With 4 fit strikers those this season turn out the same way?

 

[Still thinking of a name]

Of course it's the players. Actually it's the injuries to the players and the weakness of our bench plus Quieroz's theories not working out. Fergie cannot be wholly absolved, but in this mess he's less cupable than others.

In times gone by a poor showing would mean benching and rotation. These days the divide between the bench and the 1st team is so huge we have little options to chose from. The striker crisis counts for a lot. With 4 fit strikers those this season turn out the same way?

Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesnt?

Overloading our squad with good forwards doesnt make up for our shocking midfield. We can only play 2 strikers from the start at most, whereas we can play 4 or 5 midfielders.

It would make far more sense to have 4 class midfielders than 4 class strikers.

 

[Looking Busy]

We can point the finger at various sources (as I have done as well) but the buck stops with the manager. He is paid to make the decisions and he knows the risks that go with the job.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

We can point the finger at various sources (as I have done as well) but the buck stops with the manager. He is paid to make the decisions and he knows the risks that go with the job.

Finally on my wavelength. I knew you'd get there.

 

[Fortitude]

Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesnt?

Overloading our squad with good forwards doesnt make up for our shocking midfield. We can only play 2 strikers from the start at most, whereas we can play 4 or 5 midfielders.

It would make far more sense to have 4 class midfielders than 4 class strikers.

I agree with you about midfielders but, 4 strikers is now a given for any top side challenging on 3 fronts for a whole season. No Ruud(or understudy - Saha) has crippled us.

We gave the bench midfielders the chance to step in and prove themselves and only Fletcher has put forward a strong(any) case for himself. If these players had come in and done the job people would hail Fergie for that, but as they failed Fergie gets the blame, I don't understand why.

Apart from injuries the only thing that Fergie has done differently this season is listen to his trusted #2#s tactical advice..

 

[Still thinking of a name]

I agree with you about midfielders but, 4 strikers is now a given for any top side challenging on 3 fronts for a whole season. No Ruud(or understudy - Saha) has crippled us.

We gave the bench midfielders the chance to step in and prove themselves and only Fletcher has put forward a strong(any) case for himself. If these players had come in and done the job people would hail Fergie for that, but as they failed Fergie gets the blame, I don't understand why.

Apart from injuries the only thing that Fergie has done differently this season is listen to his trusted #2#s tactical advice..

And changed the team game after game, even changed it when we were on a good run (our only good run of the season and the one time we looked like a good side)

2 years of chopping and changing.

 

[Fortitude]

And changed the team game after game, even changed it when we were on a good run (our only good run of the season and the one time we looked like a good side)

2 years of chopping and changing.

Our main midfielders are not able to sustain a huge run of games together anymore. Keano needs his rest and so does Giggs. What else was Fergie supposed to do?

 

[Still thinking of a name]

Our main midfielders are not able to sustain a huge run of games together anymore. Keano needs his rest and so does Giggs. What else was Fergie supposed to do?

If they arent up to it, replace them.

Bench players.

 

[Keilyn27]

We gave the bench midfielders the chance to step in and prove themselves and only Fletcher has put forward a strong(any) case for himself. If these players had come in and done the job people would hail Fergie for that, but as they failed Fergie gets the blame, I don't understand why.

Cos SAF's the one who brought in those players, he's accountable for his bad buys. No manager has a 100% buying record but the no. of times we've got our midfield signings wrong recently is shocking. And that's what led to our current midfield conundrum.

Apart from injuries the only thing that Fergie has done differently this season is listen to his trusted #2#s tactical advice..

Whether Queiroz has sole control over our tactics, I've no idea as an outsider. But as the manager, SAF has the final say over the team so he's ultimately responsible for our performances good or bad.

 

[United78]

IMO there are many reasons why we haven't done well this season and yes injuries did I think play a major part. No team have afford to have a "Rudd," and "Saha" type players injured and a "rio" banned.

That said football is no longer player dependent nor even team -- its about the quality of the squad and ours is light. Ole was supposed to replace Becks and he has been injured. Giggs will always pick up knocks --- and Keano can't play every game.

These decisions are all Fergies and he has got to take stock.

3rd is not a disaster but its not good enough and we do need a number of top quality players to blend in -- Rooney is great and will get better -- Heinze has been great -- but 2 players do not make a squad.

Chelsea will not find it as easy next season -- I am hoping though that we but quality players who don't look tired as early!

 

[Fortitude]

If they arent up to it, replace them.

Bench players.

Quality midfielders cost money the board says we don't have.

The benchers have been given ample opportunity to show their worth and have failed at almost every opportunity.

I suppose the one thing I would blame fergie for was not forseeing the divide in class that we now have between our 1st xi and our squad, but nothing else.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

Quality midfielders cost money the board says we don't have.

The benchers have been given ample opportunity to show their worth and have failed at almost every opportunity.

I suppose the one thing I would blame fergie for was not forseeing the divide in class that we now have between our 1st xi and our squad, but nothing else.

What do you mean FOREseeing it? According to him, its the best squad since 99'. He probably still doesnt see it?

 

[Looking Busy]

Finally on my wavelength. I knew you'd get there.

I always have held that view, but you tend to get a lot of abuse if you air it.

 

[Fortitude]

Cos SAF's the one who brought in those players, he's accountable for his bad buys. No manager has a 100% buying record but the no. of times we've got our midfield signings wrong recently is shocking. And that's what led to our current midfield conundrum.

The players we wanted/needed cost a lot more then the ones we could afford to bring in. At the prices we have paid for midfielders recently you're always taking a risk that the guy can reach any hoped for potential. Until you get to 10m + midfielders are a gamble. unless old and proven. The people we are talking about now Essien, Gattusso etc, are in the catergory of 10m+

Whether Queiroz has sole control over our tactics, I've no idea as an outsider. But as the manager, SAF has the final say over the team so he's ultimately responsible for our performances good or bad.

Dumping a #2 mid season would cause more friction in the camp then keeping him till the Summer. I think that would feck morale right up. I'd think, myself, Fergie would be guilty if he didn't identify and remove any backroom problems over the Summer however.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

I always have held that view, but you tend to get a lot of abuse if you air it.

Thats true too. But you have to fight the good fight, else people start listening to idiots.

 

[Fortitude]

What do you mean FOREseeing it? According to him, its the best squad since 99'. He probably still doesnt see it?

When was the last time we had a fully fit squad to chose from? Moreso, when was the last time our fully fit squad had a run of 12games together?

It's impossible to say if he's wrong yet until we actually see them all play for a season.

 

[Looking Busy]

We need to bite the bullet and cut atleast 7 players from the first team squad. Most people who know my views will be able to name them but for the rest of you i'll leave you to guess.

 

[Still thinking of a name]

The players we wanted/needed cost a lot more then the ones we could afford to bring in. At the prices we have paid for midfielders recently you're always taking a risk that the guy can reach any hoped for potential. Until you get to 10m + midfielders are a gamble. unless old and proven. The people we are talking about now Essien, Gattusso etc, are in the catergory of 10m+


Dumping a #2 mid season would cause more friction in the camp then keeping him till the Summer. I think that would feck morale right up. I'd think, myself, Fergie would be guilty if he didn't identify and remove any backroom problems over the Summer however.

Why?

He's steered the ship himself before, why not remove the clowns mid season? If anything, then the players could see that theres an improvement and give extra effort in helping things change.

 

[Fortitude]

Why?

He's steered the ship himself before, why not remove the clowns mid season? If anything, then the players could see that theres an improvement and give extra effort in helping things change.

I don't know how many 60 year olds are out there in sole charge of all team affairs in world football at the highest levels. I would guess it is very low or, non existant. I can think of Guy Roux and Gus Hiddink, but they have great staff around them and are far from solo. The age of a solo manager seems long gone to me.

 

[Fortitude]

We need to bite the bullet and cut atleast 7 players from the first team squad. Most people who know my views will be able to name them but for the rest of you i'll leave you to guess.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, some people on here lose the plot when they read that and say it is Championship manger-esque.

The purpose of a squad is to offer extra dimension and adequate cover and also the flexibility of formation(s) when our bench players come on they are more likely to throw a game a way then to turn it around and that's a shame.

I hope David Jones is given a chance next season and some new faces are brought in to invigorate our bench and actually offer the threat of dsiplacing a starter who is under-performing. If we want to challenge for the league, squad rotation is absolutely essential.

 

[soulblight3r]

well you can't say fergie hasn't tried to sign quaity midfielders..the board just managed to screw the signings up..

 

[Looking Busy]

well you can't say fergie hasn't tried to sign quaity midfielders..the board just managed to screw the signings up..

Who?
Do you think everything would have been roses if we'd have sign Robben or Ronaldinhio. Also if we had of got Ronaldinhio we wouldn't have got Rooney.

Fergie also identified players who just plainly aren't good enough

 

[soulblight3r]

i was just referring to the point made that fergie didn't sign quality players...i'm not saying it would've made a difference..