Playmaking CMs under Conte

[Teja]

So, to snap out of the doom and gloom a bit. Assuming we sign Conte, let's look at some of the midfield partnerships he employs.

Chelsea 16/17

Mostly, Kante + Matic alternated with Kante + Fabregas.

Chelsea 17/18

Matic left, so he tried

Fab + Bakayoko (his default)
Fab + Bakayoko + Kante (His defensive 3-5-2 in big games. Drops an attacking mid and pushes a CM (Kante) higher up, the infamous City 0:1 game)
Kante + Bakayoko (not very successfully, Fab was pushed to LAM in these games)
(and some others rarely)

Conte 20/21 Inter

Brozovic + Barella + Vidal / Eriksen (Default 3-5-2)

Translating that to our squad:

(Not a CF thread, so I haven't put a lot of thought into which CFs play, how we press etc..)

(Could be McT / Fred in all cases below.)

3-5-2 (The preferred Inter formation):

Two of the forwards in our current 4-2-4 were sacrificed - one for a CB, one for a DM.

---------------- CF ---- CF -------------------
------------ Pogba -- McT -----------------
---WB --------- Matic ------------WB-----
---------CB ---- CB ----- CB ----------------

3-5-1-1 (Minor variation with one AM instead of two CFs)

--------------------- CF ---------------------------
------------------ Bruno ------------------------
------------ Pogba -- McT ------------------
---WB ---------- Matic -------------WB-----
---------CB ------- CB ----- CB --------------

3-4-3 Chelsea style (The 16/17 Chelsea Default)

---------------------- CF -------------------------
- Sancho / Bruno -- Greenwood ---
------------ Fred -- Matic -------------------
---WB -------------------- ------------WB-----
---------CB ---- CB ----- CB ----------------

EDITs from comments below

Ultimately all his formations employed a sitting playmaker / #6 (which we don't really have beyond Matic). You could shoehorn Pogba / Fred into that role (Ole tried this as well) but hasn't come off.

Regardless Pogba's going to leave as well, so we need a Matic type player in the side (and not a pure DM like Gueye). One of the CM spots can be rotated between Fred / McT depending on how much attacking thrust we need.

 

[HerbT]

Well researched and thought provoking, thanks.

I kinda doubt that Pogba will still be with you next season but, if he is I can see the 3412 or 343 set up suiting him because he’ll have enough around him to deal with his deficiencies and allow him to do the stuff he’s very good at.

Conte‘s a top class manager and that means he’ll learn as he goes along, so he’s likely to put a twist on how he sets up, and he’ll also bend things a bit to accommodate the players he‘s got at his disposal.
If you do have Pogba under Conte then I’d guess that he’ll have one of the fullbacks / wingbacks cutting into defensive midfield in possession phases to release Pogba to go further forward.
IMO it would be your left fullback because AWB doesn’t have the ball skills to take a role in midfield.

If you do make a change then I hope it is Conte, he’s very very good and it would enhance the PL.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

he prefers his 6 to be a play maker.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Well researched and thought provoking, thanks.

I kinda doubt that Pogba will still be with you next season but, if he is I can see the 3412 or 343 set up suiting him because he’ll have enough around him to deal with his deficiencies and allow him to do the stuff he’s very good at.

Conte‘s a top class manager and that means he’ll learn as he goes along, so he’s likely to put a twist on how he sets up, and he’ll also bend things a bit to accommodate the players he‘s got at his disposal.
If you do have Pogba under Conte then I’d guess that he’ll have one of the fullbacks / wingbacks cutting into defensive midfield in possession phases to release Pogba to go further forward.
IMO it would be your left fullback because AWB doesn’t have the ball skills to take a role in midfield.

If you do make a change then I hope it is Conte, he’s very very good and it would enhance the PL.

Why would he need to drop a wingback into midfield when there's 3 CB's and 2 more defensive midfielders with Pogba. Dropping a wingback into midfield negates the whole point of the system. Leave that sort of stuff to Pep and co.

 

[Dave Smith]

Why would he need to drop a wingback into midfield when there's 3 CB's and 2 more defensive midfielders with Pogba. Dropping a wingback into midfield negates the whole point of the system. Leave that sort of stuff to Pep and co.

Agreed

 

[Highfather_24]

Brozovic is the answer.

 

[redrobed]

Bellingham + Rice + Mount for me

 

[bond19821982]

I dont think he will play Pogba in a 2 . The 2 CMs he prefer needs to be very disciplined and it's not their job to create something for the team. Matic will start 100 % with one of Fred /McT or Donny.

If Pogba starts. It will be a 3 man midfield. Pogba ,Matic and Fred probably.

 

[telstar96]

Assuming we get Conte soon and have to wait until the summer for new incomings, I’m pretty excited at the prospect of what he could do with this team.

I think 3 at the back can help solve our current midfield woes. I’m not saying McFred is our long term midfield partnership, but playing 3 CBs would help facilitate their box-to-box nature, as they would always have cover from the extra defender. It could also open up opportunities for Maguire to bring the ball out of defence and also allow him to push up while defending, whilst receiving cover from two more mobile CBs behind him.

Pogba looked very impressive in Conte’s system at Juve, so I’m pretty excited at the prospect of a manager finally utilising his talent. I’ve long thought that Pogba’s best position has been misinterpreted by both Jose and Ole.

Lastly, it would be interesting to see if Conte can improve some of our players. Maybe he’ll be able to develop McT into a well rounded midfielder. Who knows? But based on Ole’s tenure, whoever comes in next, will have a blank canvas to work with, considering there is no identity with our current crop.

 

[Powderfinger]

I dont think you have the Inter midfields quite right. Barella and Brozovic were fixtures in that 20-21 team. The most common midfields were Brozovic-Barella-Vidal and Brozovic-Barella-Eriksen. That midfield was used regularly both in big games and against minnows.

The biggest issues I see for United are that you don't have a deep lying playmaker like Brozovic at the base of midfield and you don't really have a player with Barella's combination of quality and work rate either. I cannot see Conte regularly playing Matic - Pogba - Bruno regularly.

Whoever comes in next as United manager is going to have to remake the midfield significantly, and that includes Conte.

 

[bond19821982]

I dont think you have the Inter midfields quite right. Barella and Brozovic were fixtures in that 20-21 team. The most common midfields were Brozovic-Barella-Vidal and Brozovic-Barella-Eriksen. That midfield was used regularly both in big games and against minnows.

The biggest issues I see for United are that you don't have a deep lying playmaker like Brozovic at the base of midfield and you don't really have a player with Barella's combination of quality and work rate either. I cannot see Conte regularly playing Matic - Pogba - Bruno regularly.

Whoever comes in next as United manager is going to have to remake the midfield significantly, and that includes Conte.

No one will play Matic Pogba Bruno. It will be Pogba Matic and Fred in a 3 man midfield .

 

[Sky1981]

The bigger question for me would be how the coaching setup respond to him. If he comes.

He's the one that usurp their buddy at the end of the day. Professionalism and all that but i dont think it'll be smooth sailing.

Mckenna, carrick, fletcher, imo needs to go as well. Not sure about fletcher but mckenna and carrick should get the boot along with ole

 

[Trequarista10]

What about young Donald van de Beek?

 

[giorno]

I think Conte is more adaptable than you give him credit for, though it is a fact that the 3 CBs-3CMs system is what he trusts the most

Looking at it, from Juventus(Pirlo), to Italy(De Rossi), Chelsea(Matic) to Inter(Brozovic) he's almost always relied on a DLP at the base of the midfield. In fact, this is likely the most critical role on all of his teams, due to his preferred playing style. He's been in situations where he was forced to tweak with it(chelsea) and some where he got to augment it(inter, with Lukaku), and for the most part he's generally succeded

The issue for United is the one instance in which he largely didn't quite succeed: 17/18 with chelsea, where his solution ultimately was to put a superhuman load on the shoulders of Kante, Hazard and Willian

 

[VanDeBank]

Brozovic is the answer.

It is. He's also on a free this summer. Can both pass and defend. I think we should get a backup DM as well, or promote one from the academy.

Matic looks good paper, but Conte's arrival won't have him grow a new pair of legs. He's finished at this level. Pogba is about to feck off anyway.

Fred Bruno
Brozovic

McTominay Donny
?

 

[P-Nut]

It is. He's also on a free this summer. Can both pass and defend. I think we should get a backup DM as well, or promote one from the academy.

Matic looks good paper, but Conte's arrival won't have him grow a new pair of legs. He's finished at this level. Pogba is about to feck off anyway.

Fred Bruno
Brozovic

McTominay Donny
?

Garner hopefully if he can keep progressing

 

[Skills]

I think Conte is more adaptable than you give him credit for, though it is a fact that the 3 CBs-3CMs system is what he trusts the most

Looking at it, from Juventus(Pirlo), to Italy(De Rossi), Chelsea(Matic) to Inter(Brozovic) he's almost always relied on a DLP at the base of the midfield. In fact, this is likely the most critical role on all of his teams, due to his preferred playing style. He's been in situations where he was forced to tweak with it(chelsea) and some where he got to augment it(inter, with Lukaku), and for the most part he's generally succeded

The issue for United is the one instance in which he largely didn't quite succeed: 17/18 with chelsea, where his solution ultimately was to put a superhuman load on the shoulders of Kante, Hazard and Willian

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he often use Pogba as the base of a 3 man midfield with Juventus? When Pirlo wasn't playing, it would be Pogba flanked by Vidal and Marchisio. Then when Pirlo was playing, Pogba would occupy the left flank

 

[AgentSmith]

Brozovic is the answer.

We should make an offer for Brozović in January. Tempt the financially strapped owners of Inter with a last chance to make some money on him before risking losing him for free in the summer.

If we could then perform a similar trick with Trippier we’d very quickly establish a much more balanced team (Fred and Pogba rotated depending on the opposition) with fantastic attacking depth from the bench.

De Gea
Trippier - Varane - Maguire - Shaw
Brozović - Fred/Pogba
Sancho - Bruno - Rashford
Cavani​

Henderson
AWB
Lindelof
VDB
Lingard
Greenwood
Ronaldo

 

[giorno]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he often use Pogba as the base of a 3 man midfield with Juventus? When Pirlo wasn't playing, it would be Pogba flanked by Vidal and Marchisio. Then when Pirlo was playing, Pogba would occupy the left flank

Tried it a few times, was not a particularly good solution and the last time he tried it galatasaray eliminated them from CL. With Pogba directly responsible for their goal...

 

[HerbT]

Why would he need to drop a wingback into midfield when there's 3 CB's and 2 more defensive midfielders with Pogba. Dropping a wingback into midfield negates the whole point of the system. Leave that sort of stuff to Pep and co.

My thought is that it allows Pogba to get further up the field in your attacking phases and gives him another outlet during transition if he’s challenged. To my mind he’s best utilised as a deep playmaker, in transition from defence, and by pushing him up towards the box during attack, as he’s always dangerous on the edge of the box.
Pushing both fullbacks high (as wingbacks) and leaving him at the back of midfield means that when your attack breaks down you’re a defensive midfielder short as defending isn’t what he’s good at.

If he stops an attack it’s often by giving away a free kick whereas a ball playing fullback (looking at what Pep does as you brought that up) a player akin to to Cancelo or Zinchenko at City has the skillset to nip an attack in the bud.

Just my view mate. I watch a lot of your games, and I’m quite familiar with your players and playing style, but I don ’t profess to be an expert. I’m just a footie fan with an opinion is all.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Tried it a few times, was not a particularly good solution and the last time he tried it galatasaray eliminated them from CL. With Pogba directly responsible for their goal...

Ah a familiar situation!

To be honest re Conte, Brozovic is on a free this summer isn't he? I think he'd just get him in Jan and go:

-------------- McT ----- Brozovic ---- VdB ---------------

I don't think he'd play Bruno, he's too weak positionally, Pogba is leaving and I think Fred would come in for VdB in defensive games. I think that would be a very functional if not quite elite level midfield.

 

[LuckyScout78]

Bruno at United. Havent Bruno tattoed nr.8 on his arm?

Bissaka - Skriniar/Lindelof until SK arriving - Varane - Maguire - Shaw/Rashford depend on the opponents

Bruno/McTom - Fred/Matic - Pobga/DVB

Greenwood/Sancho - Ronaldo/Cavani

 

[Samid]

All that research to no avail.

 

[tomaldinho1]

All that research to no avail.

The caf’s finest minds were on this, such a waste!

 

[Skills]

Hojberg & Ndombele I guess.