Pochettino watch | PSG Manager (18 month contract)

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Trophies are all relative.
Ole took an unfancied Molde team and started winning trophies.
Just because it's in the Norwegian league doesn't make them any less important, it's still an achievement as yet not matched by Poch.
Couple of awful points here @Champ.

No, winning the Norwegian league with the biggest spenders in the division isn't an "unfancied team", and coming 2nd in the Prem, cementing top 4 and a CL final absolutely is worth more.
When Poch wins his first league title this season, also with the biggest spenders in the division, will that be a bigger achievement than his Spurs stint?

I mean, just think for a second. If Ole gets second this season, and say next year takes us to the CL final, are you really going to argue his Molde achievements were better? My arse you will.
 
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sugar_kane

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Honestly can't believe anyone would think Poch winning this trophy changes anything, but then this is the Caf after all.

Moyes is the perfect comparison, he'd never won anything before United and as far as I'm concerned the Charity Shield changes nothing. Doesn't make him any better or worse as a manager.

To be clear - I am not saying Poch is the same level as Moyes, just that this trophy does nothing to increase his standing.
 

Dinghy

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Couple of awful points here @Champ.

No, winning the Norwegian league with the biggest spenders in the division isn't an "unfancied team", and coming 2nd in the Prem, cementing top 4 and a CL final absolutely is worth more.
When Poch wins his first league title this season, also with the biggest spenders in the division, will that be a bigger achievement than his Spurs stint?

I mean, just think for a second. If Ole gets second this season, and say next year takes us to the CL final, are you really going to argue his Molde achievements were better? My arse you will.
Incorrect.
 

Zen86

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Couple of awful points here @Champ.

No, winning the Norwegian league with the biggest spenders in the division isn't an "unfancied team", and coming 2nd in the Prem, cementing top 4 and a CL final absolutely is worth more.
When Poch wins his first league title this season, also with the biggest spenders in the division, will that be a bigger achievement than his Spurs stint?

I mean, just think for a second. If Ole gets second this season, and say next year takes us to the CL final, are you really going to argue his Molde achievements were better? My arse you will.
Poch was guaranteed a league title before he even walked into the PSG dressing room. You could probably stick joe public expert manager from the Caf in the top spot at PSG and they'd still win the league.

Molde won the league for the first time in their history under Ole, so let's not equate that to PSG.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Poch can take from Ole in 4 to 5 years when he's won us 2 PL titles and a CL. :)
 

golden_blunder

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United are top of the league. How’s about we stop whining about Poch for a bit and back Ole now?
 
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United are top of the league. How’s about we stop whining about Poch for a bit and back Ole now?
I’m not bitching, I’m saying Poch did a good job at Spurs.
Ole is currently doing a good job at United.
If Ole matches Poch Spurs achievements at United, 2nd and CL final, it’ll clearly be the achievement of his career. It will ensure that he will get much better job offers than Cardiff City if he does move on from Manchester United. Likely he'd be in the frame for some very good jobs, just as Poch was after his Spurs spell.

But winning a Norwegian title means very little, just as winning a title for PsG. To make out one has achieved something the other hasn't by comparing a Norwegian league win with a CL final or Premier League 2nd placed finish is well.... as daft as making out that a league win in France will elevate Poch somehow.

See that middle ground right there, that no fecker here wants to concede?
 
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Champ

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Couple of awful points here @Champ.

No, winning the Norwegian league with the biggest spenders in the division isn't an "unfancied team", and coming 2nd in the Prem, cementing top 4 and a CL final absolutely is worth more.
When Poch wins his first league title this season, also with the biggest spenders in the division, will that be a bigger achievement than his Spurs stint?

I mean, just think for a second. If Ole gets second this season, and say next year takes us to the CL final, are you really going to argue his Molde achievements were better? My arse you will.
I disagree entirely,
Success is all relative. Poch has won two games out of three and got a trophy...that's not winning a trophy, that's having it handed to you, that's Tuchels trophy.
Your talking in the future already and we are out of the Champions league, so them points aren't really valid, but hypothetically speaking if we finish second and lose the Europa League final then yeah Oles achievements at Molde still outweigh it.
We all laughed at Jose saying finishing second was his biggest achievement, now we have fans on here saying the same thing!!
We used to laugh at Wenger for the too four trophy, now we have fans on here saying the same thing!! Madness.
And all to support a manager who is nothing to do with our club.

Ole has won more than Poch in his career. Poch now only has one less trophy than Moyes.
 

Champ

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Yeah tbf, i had no idea about the 400m in 5 years. Didn't think it would be that high, most probably because a lot of it was on "cheap/young" punts and not really super expensive superstars? Also, what was his net spend like in 5 years? Agree with your general point though. Whole different ball game at PSG and he's dealing with superstar egos (Kane was a superstar, but he became one under the guidance of Poch and he was at his boyhood club).
Yeah, he seemed to buy alot of players for under £10m!
It'll be interesting to see what happens with Mbappe at the end of the season...can Poch make him stay?
 

Ish

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Yeah, he seemed to buy alot of players for under £10m!
It'll be interesting to see what happens with Mbappe at the end of the season...can Poch make him stay?
Honestly, I wouldn’t think anyone could make Mbappe stay. Maybe an extra year extension or so - but it’ll all depend on timing and when his suitors (probably Madrid) are ready as well. One things for sure, he will leave psg eventually and I doubt he’ll sign himself into another long term contract. Because psg won’t sell anyone they don’t want to sell. It’s a good step for Poch though. See how he handles big egos and lots of pressure for success.
 

Bebestation

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I’m not bitching, I’m saying Poch did a good job at Spurs.
Ole is currently doing a good job at United.
If Ole matches Poch Spurs achievements at United, 2nd and CL final, it’ll clearly be the achievement of his career. It will ensure that he will get much better job offers than Cardiff City if he does move on from Manchester United. Likely he'd be in the frame for some very good jobs, just as Poch was after his Spurs spell.

But winning a Norwegian title means very little, just as winning a title for PsG. To make out one has achieved something the other hasn't by comparing a Norwegian league win with a CL final or Premier League 2nd placed finish is well.... as daft as making out that a league win in France will elevate Poch somehow.

See that middle ground right there, that no fecker here wants to concede?
Winning the premier league over takes getting to a CL final and losing, especially when it was purely by the brilliance by Lucas Moura that day who he dropped on the final after scoring a hat trick in the semi final.

Dumb decision. Let's see if Ole can do that in the next couple of years and if Pochettino can win a CL, it's what they should be targeting.
 

tomaldinho1

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I’m not bitching, I’m saying Poch did a good job at Spurs.
Ole is currently doing a good job at United.
If Ole matches Poch Spurs achievements at United, 2nd and CL final, it’ll clearly be the achievement of his career. It will ensure that he will get much better job offers than Cardiff City if he does move on from Manchester United. Likely he'd be in the frame for some very good jobs, just as Poch was after his Spurs spell.

But winning a Norwegian title means very little, just as winning a title for PsG. To make out one has achieved something the other hasn't by comparing a Norwegian league win with a CL final or Premier League 2nd placed finish is well.... as daft as making out that a league win in France will elevate Poch somehow.

See that middle ground right there, that no fecker here wants to concede?
I don't really get how anyone would argue against this part?
 

troylocker

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Everyone recognises them. Just that it was in one of the lowest rated leagues in Europe.

I think the trophy to prove it desperation is stupid, for any manager. Klopp won a couple of Bundesligas yeah, but Wolfsburg won it 2 years previous and Stuttgart 2 years before that. Winning a Bundesliga now for Rose or Nagelsmann is infinitely more difficult than it was for Klopp, yet some will claim they have to win something first, I don’t get it.
You don’t need to see a trophy to know those guys are doing excellent jobs or that Poch did a cracking job at Spurs.
The thing is that winning domestic trophies with PSG in France is the absolute minimum he has to do to keep his job though. The last manager reached the final of CL and won the French quadruple 6 months before he was fired. It's really not that impressive to win a domestic "1 match trophy" with PSG. If he doesn't win all domestic competitions they enter, he will be considered a failure. At least he got over the first hurdle....
 

horsechoker

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Ask yourselves this: could Ole win the
Trophée des Champions with Manchester United?.

Exactly

Ole out
 

R'hllor

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This whole discussion is weird.

Even Ole being very good/good fit for United, Poch is overall more rated, regardless of who won what.
 

Amadaeus

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more to come for the best manager in football. Not required to win any significant trophies at Spurs, but still manage to get the Audi cup. Now, he is Working with elite talent which will improve him as a manager. Looking at Spurs struggling, it just shows how great Pochettino accomplishment was at Spurs.

I don’t have much hope for Ole only that the board is supporting him with great players. After psg, he can still come to United and fortify us as one of the best team in Europe.
 

horsechoker

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more to come for the best manager in football. Working with elite talent will improve him as a manager. Looking at Spurs struggling, it just shows how great Pochettino accomplishment was at Spurs.
You must be very proud of your son.
 

USREDEVIL

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We'll does it mean much? I mean what did Poch do to actually win it? Won one game against a team in 6th place and who didn't win anything and were in the supercup by default!
It's the equivalent of Moyes winning the charity shield, but some on here won't have that about Poch :lol: :lol:
No it doesn't mean much. But you can't discount him getting to the damn UCL final, just because he did not win. My point is that winning trophies does have meaning but it's not everything.
 

Judas

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more to come for the best manager in football. Not required to win any significant trophies at Spurs, but still manage to get the Audi cup. Now, he is Working with elite talent which will improve him as a manager. Looking at Spurs struggling, it just shows how great Pochettino accomplishment was at Spurs.

I don’t have much hope for Ole only that the board is supporting him with great players. After psg, he can still come to United and fortify us as one of the best team in Europe.
and that's the real quiz.
 

Champ

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No it doesn't mean much. But you can't discount him getting to the damn UCL final, just because he did not win. My point is that winning trophies does have meaning but it's not everything.
Granted, trophies aren't the only Benchmark.
But they are the currency that clubs, managers and players live on.
 

Castia

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Granted, trophies aren't the only Benchmark.
But they are the currency that clubs, managers and players live on.
Not for Spurs though in the state they were in when he took over. Bottom half of the table with a god awful squad. I cba going into all the details but just research the team Poch inherited at Spurs, they had no right up against Chelsea, City and Ourselves to be winning trophies, it was remarkable how far he took them.
 

youngrell

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The issue for me with Pochettino was more to do with his attitude towards winning trophies rather than his ability to win them.

I want our manager to try to win everything they can. It’s how Sir Alex did it, so it’s what we’re used to.
 

Renegade

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Granted, trophies aren't the only Benchmark.
But they are the currency that clubs, managers and players live on.
It depends on the club and resources available to that club. I’d imagine for Levy top 4 > league cup.
 

united_99

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Audi Cup is an underrated trophy. Almost as underrated as the Net Spend Cup.
 

Champ

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Not for Spurs though in the state they were in when he took over. Bottom half of the table with a god awful squad. I cba going into all the details but just research the team Poch inherited at Spurs, they had no right up against Chelsea, City and Ourselves to be winning trophies, it was remarkable how far he took them.
Nah, he took over a team that finished 6th, had money to spend and had finished the season very strongly indeed.
They were far from a mess.
And also, they only once looked likely to win a trophy, only once did they challenge and that was the Champions league final.
 

Champ

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It depends on the club and resources available to that club. I’d imagine for Levy top 4 > league cup.
Again, Levy is a business man. He wants money.
Poch is a manager, he wants/needs trophies.
 

Sayros

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I'm reserving judgment on him until 3-4 months from now at least. This is the honeymoon, Neymar is hugging him, everybody is all smiles. Let's see what happens down the line, especially with Mbappe's contract situation. Personally, while I'm a PSG supporter given it's my city of birth, I hope Mbappe, to quote his buddy Lebron, takes his talents somewhere else either in England or Spain (most likely). It feels as though Neymar is going to stay at PSG, and this might make Mbappe hesitate a bit because they have a great understanding on the field. Either way, Pochettino tends to create very cohesive teams, but when I hear him wanting to bring Delle Alli, I get a bit nervous.
 
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Your talking in the future already and we are out of the Champions league, so them points aren't really valid, but hypothetically speaking if we finish second and lose the Europa League final then yeah Oles achievements at Molde still outweigh it.
Let’s ask it a different way then shall we...

Ole got offered the Cardiff job based off his Molde achievements. The worst side in the Premier League.

If Ole finished 2nd this season, and next season he takes United to a CL final, do you not think he’ll have a shit load better offers than the shittest team in the PL?

Clearly he would, because finishing second in this Premier League era and making a Champions League final, are, weirdly enough, bigger achievements than winning the fecking Eliteserien. It’s why Poch has been touted for every top job in football whilst Erling Moe will be lucky if he gets offered any job in a top league over the next couple of years.

My god the debates on here are painful.
 

Castia

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Nah, he took over a team that finished 6th, had money to spend and had finished the season very strongly indeed.
They were far from a mess.
And also, they only once looked likely to win a trophy, only once did they challenge and that was the Champions league final.
They had qualified for the CL once in their history before Poch and that was due to a Ronaldo-esque season from Bale who carried them to 4th. His budget was next to nothing in comparison with others, whilst Poch was buying Dele from MK Dons for peanuts United we’re breaking records signing Di Maria and Pogba his net spend during those first years was almost in the green.
 

Champ

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Let’s ask it a different way then shall we...

Ole got offered the Cardiff job based off his Molde achievements. The worst side in the Premier League.

If Ole finished 2nd this season, and next season he takes United to a CL final, do you not think he’ll have a shit load better offers than the shittest team in the PL?

Clearly he would, because finishing second in this Premier League era and making a Champions League final, are, weirdly enough, bigger achievements than winning the fecking Eliteserien. It’s why Poch has been touted for every top job in football whilst Erling Moe will be lucky if he gets offered any job in a top league over the next couple of years.

My god the debates on here are painful.
You sound like Jose, you really do. :lol:

Ole is a top manager, that's the reason he got the Cardiff job, that's the reason he got the United job, his legacy here obviously assisted with that.
Poch wasn't offered any jobs until the PSG job came along.
Again, you're using things that haven't happened yet for justification for your point of view, which is what people tend to do when they need something, anything to back their opinions up.
 

Champ

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They had qualified for the CL once in their history before Poch and that was due to a Ronaldo-esque season from Bale who carried them to 4th. His budget was next to nothing in comparison with others, whilst Poch was buying Dele from MK Dons for peanuts United we’re breaking records signing Di Maria and Pogba his net spend during those first years was almost in the green.
Poch spent £400m in total, of just under that, in his 5 years as manager, that's a hefty amount, this fallacy that he never spent is strange. He loves a transfer does Poch, and majority of then have been awful but this could be down to the transfer team at Spurs.
We were not a benchmark back then, Woodward was on his Galactico campaign, and we actually won trophies during that time.
Poch picked them up when they finished 6th, and were the form team at the end of the season.
He left them 14th and struggling.
In between that he had one very good season and one very good champions League run, but zero trophies despite the financial outlay.
In that time Arsenal have also won trophies, Leicester have won the league, with limited budgets. It is possible to do so!!
 

fergosaurus

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You sound like Jose, you really do. :lol:

Ole is a top manager, that's the reason he got the Cardiff job, that's the reason he got the United job, his legacy here obviously assisted with that.
Poch wasn't offered any jobs until the PSG job came along.
Again, you're using things that haven't happened yet for justification for your point of view, which is what people tend to do when they need something, anything to back their opinions up.
Thanks for the chuckle, I didn't think I'd ever read those words arranged in a sentence like that.
 

spiriticon

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I love how in the last pages we're celebrating Poch winning the Trophee du whatitsname.... and then putting down Ole's 2 league and cup titles because it's 'crap'.

Conversation always turns out this way.
 
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I love how in the last pages we're celebrating Poch winning the Trophee du whatitsname.... and then putting down Ole's 2 league and cup titles because it's 'crap'.

Conversation always turns out this way.
Erm... you’ve got this wrong @spiriticon

We have all been taking the piss that more meaningless trophies, mean less.
No one actually think Poch’s title at PSG mean anything.

My entire argument is that I will be much more impressed with Ole finishing second this season than anything he has previously done in his career, in the same way I will be much more impressed with what Poch did at Spurs than if he wins the league and a couple of tin pot cups at PSG.