Pogba & Fernandes in the same midfield

[pratyush_utd]

Ah yes. That mythical run of 3 games against Sheffield, Brighton and Bournemouth that will surely go down in United folklore.

Which was ofcourse followed by a run of 5 league games where we looked disjointed, unbalanced and relied on penalty after penalty. A run which has now extended to 7 league games at the start of this season...

The excuse last season was the players were tired after too many games. Now it's a lack of fitness and Pogba had coronavirus... There is always an excuse.

Yeah he was injured all season last year. Do you have better reason to moan about him?

 

[pratyush_utd]

Apparently Pogba who has scored 32 goals and 33 assist in 166 games for United has done nothing in last 5 season. Some of you lot are embarrassing, downplaying even the coronavirus impact on footballers because it's Pogba

 

[charlenefan]

and then looked absolutely devastating with Bruno, Paul and Matic.
Dominated the future Europa League Winner with Bruno, Paul and Fred

Devastating for a handful of games while falling over the line in just as many

 

[pratyush_utd]

I don't think it will work considering both are not great at defending. Especially if Bruno is so far ahead of him.

 

[Jaae]

Y'all do realise this is the 2nd league game right?

...where we've carried on the lacklustre form from the previous 5 League games at the end of last season.

 

[Thiagoal]

Yes I would come to the same conclusion that the base behind him has never been good enough throughout his whole time at Utd. We’ve just had terrible defenders one after another which we then blame on Pogba for not being a very good defensive midfielder. Put a Van Dijk behind Pogba and he suddenly becomes one of the best midfielders in the world.

Oh how delusional people are....come on!!

 

[afrocentricity]

...where we've carried on the lacklustre form from the previous 5 League games at the end of last season.

So knowing that, and the fact we've had little rest or preseason, and the fact that Pogba is coming back from illness (Covid no less, an illness that is known to affect stamina and lung capacity among other things) ........... Knowing all that, do you not think maybe we should wait a while before we get the pitch forks?

 

[el3mel]

By the second half of the season I'm ready to bet we would be playing with Matic and VDB with double pivot and Bruno up ahead.

 

[wylodyka]

Ole is holding Pogba back by playing him very deep. Either play both Bruno and Pogba together further up the pitch or play only one of them. Or just put Pogba up front instead of Martial. Having Pogba on the same line as Matic or McT is making our defense look very weak.

 

[Ash_G]

It can be done, look at City, but requires a tactical change in particular not having the fullbacks push up so much. I can't see why we wouldn't be trying to do this as we know our fullbacks aren't good in attacking spaces so seems a waste to have them push forward at the expense of Pogba having to play deeper. Clearly Pogba needs to find some form/sharpness but even if he was dropped for see VDB I would think we wouldn't get the best out of him without letting him have some more freedom.

 

[ChaddyP]

Was Pogba actually Covid symptomatic or did he just test positive?

Actually I have no idea to be honest. I just assumed he may be feeling some ill effects of the virus because of how bad he's been

 

[Jaae]

So knowing that, and the fact we've had little rest or preseason, and the fact that Pogba is coming back from illness (Covid no less, an illness that is known to affect stamina and lung capacity among other things) ........... Knowing all that, do you not think maybe we should wait a while before we get the pitch forks?

I get that everything going on with the disrupted seasons hasn't helped, but I've seen enough of Pogba the last four years to know that his style of play is not compatible with Bruno as no.10.

Coupled with the performances I'm seeing there is definitely grounds for a discussion. Like I said in the OP I don't think there was ever a plan to have Bruno and Pogba in the same team. It's simply been forced by circumstances.

 

[eire-red]

Careful. I said this in another thread and got slaughtered.

It's a bitter pill to swallow given how much we spent on Pogba, but I don't think anyone can believe that if instead of signing Bruno, Pogba got fit in January and we decided we didn't need Bruno, we would have finished in a CL place.

The narrative would have been "Pogba played well but ultimately didn't have good enough players around him" or something along those lines.

Funny thing is, I've never found that with Bruno. He influential and has leadership qualities regardless of who's on the pitch with him. One of the few in this team worth of the shirt.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I say drop them both and play with Van De Beek and Fred.

 

[eire-red]

Y'all do realise this is the 2nd league game right?

Yes, but also Pogba's fourth season at the club, and we're still waiting for this 'world class player' to blossom and lead us to the title.

The truth is that it's not working at the moment, and if one of them has to get the chop in order to tighten up the midfield, it has to be Pogba for me.

Bruno is our best player, by quite a distance as well. He's doing what everyone believes Pogba 'can do'. I know which one I rather.

 

[afrocentricity]

Yes, but also Pogba's fourth season at the club, and we're still waiting for this 'world class player' to blossom and lead us to the title.

The truth is that it's not working at the moment, and if one of them has to get the chop in order to tighten up the midfield, it has to be Pogba for me.

Bruno is our best player, by quite a distance as well. He's doing what everyone believes Pogba 'can do'. I know which one I rather.

Dropping him is one thing (although he needs to get minutes to get match fit), but people are talking about selling him because they've had enough....

Tbf I don't even know why I'm here reasoning as the people with that mindset are unlikely to change it. Oh yes I remember... I'm trying to add perspective.

 

[el3mel]

It's a bitter pill to swallow given how much we spent on Pogba, but I don't think anyone can believe that if instead of signing Bruno, Pogba got fit in January and we decided we didn't need Bruno, we would have finished in a CL place.

The narrative would have been "Pogba played well but ultimately didn't have good enough players around him" or something along those lines.

Funny thing is, I've never found that with Bruno. He influential and has leadership qualities regardless of who's on the pitch with him. One of the few in this team worth of the shirt.

Agree. I think some can't believe after several years of blaming everyone else for Pogba's problems, that someone comes and instantly makes an impact without needing the world aligned for him to produce consistently. Hard to swallow for some I guess. That doesn't mean Bruno is flawless for sure, I have problems with his passing when he has an off game, but it's no brainer for me, really. Bruno is everything I was expecting Pogba to be for United when we signed him.

 

[eire-red]

Dropping him is one thing (although he needs to get minutes to get match fit), but people are talking about selling him because they've had enough....

Tbf I don't even know why I'm here reasoning as the people with that mindset are unlikely to change it. Oh yes I remember... I'm trying to add perspective.

People talk about selling Pogba as if it's some unthinkable sin, and we're doomed if it happens. Have we not sold much better players in the past? CR7, RVN, Hughes, Ince, Kanchelskis.. the list goes on and on.

I know it's only the second game and all, and like you said we should temper our views with a little perspective, but when you're an acclaimed world class player, how do you churn out two performances that were as poor as that?

Now I agree that replacing Pogba in the market would be nigh on impossible, he's a very unique midfielder in that he possesses certain traits that most don't (flair, ability to beat a man etc). But I'm here thinking to myself and trying to weigh up the pros and cons of what Pogba brings to this team.

I think we'll have a decent season again, but because I still feel we'll make one or two significant signings before the window closes, and also because our attack is so lethal. But I'm also not expecting Pogba to be the man that's the driving force behind any of our success this season.

I'd love to know what's happening behind the scenes, because Ole seems to have this unbreakable belief in Pogba, and I'm starting to wonder why.

 

[pacifictheme]

6 months ago the narrative was that having Bruno would take pressure off Pogba, gave him more space and less defensive attention, and that would be the final piece to allow Pogba to shine.

Then he got moved to defensive midfield.

Gotta say I am looking forwards to vdb, fernandes and matic in midfield. Think that could work very well.

 

[eire-red]

Agree. I think some can't believe after several years of blaming everyone else for Pogba's problems, that someone comes and instantly makes an impact without needing the world aligned for him to produce consistently. Hard to swallow for some I guess. That doesn't mean Bruno is flawless for sure, I have problems with his passing when he has an off game, but it's no brainer for me, really. Bruno is everything I was expecting Pogba to be for United when we signed him.

Yeah at times I wish Bruno was a little more careful with the ball. Altought it's hard to complain about that side of his game when that's what makes him the player he is.

Another goal and an assist today, and the beauty of Bruno is that he's not even playing out of his skin, that's just his level, and we have come to expect a certain level of influence from him on every game he plays.

He's a real bargain when you consider how much we would be quoted if we were still in the market for Grealish or Madisson. We've signed van de Beek and Bruno for the same combined fee probably, or in and around at least.

 

[Zlatan 7]

They work great together, Pogba loses the ball and Bruno chases after it to get it back

 

[Zen86]

I don’t really think they work together to be honest. Pogba is a difficult player to accommodate IMO.

 

[Mickson]

Pogba isn't a defensive midfielder, simple as that. A good manager makes this work. Go figure.

 

[Bobcat]

Pogba seems not even close to match fit, so lets see how this goes before we deliver a final verdict. But if Pogba cant function as a no 8 we might as well sell him

 

[Borys]

It's not a new issue, it's a continuation of what we've seen last season. This midfield is extremely inbalanced, basically Matic is doing defending, playmaking, and dribbling in the middle while Pogba is jogging around looking disinterested. Bruno is in a free role, which I think is not helping either.

Bruno's inconsistent passing is frustrating, but I think he's in a bad form and will improve on that.
Pogba though is driving me nuts. He doesn't look like an actual midfielder, it seems like he thinks his role is to stand in the right distance to Matic and defenders. He had a terrible game today (even by numbers), but I think Covid is a valid excuse. However, his performances are not far off what we saw at the season finish.

Many posters say Pogba is not used correctly, and is better higher up the pitch. It changes nothing, except that maybe if he's being played out of position we should consider replacing him with someone who fits the job.

But again, this has all been discussed and I am surprised we're still forcing this setup.

 

[arnie_ni]

It’s not the best time to make that assessment when Pogba clearly isn’t match fit and looks miles off the pace.

There wasn’t many issues in the run of games since project restart when they both played together. Pogba isn’t really the issue. The issue is our spine is so suspect to the counter attack due to lack of pace in Matic, Lindelof and Maguire. It’s not the best base to have behind Pogba and Bruno.

this post here.

The players around them arent fast enough and mobile enough to have pogba and bruno play "free".

 

[Borys]

It’s not the best time to make that assessment when Pogba clearly isn’t match fit and looks miles off the pace.

There wasn’t many issues in the run of games since project restart when they both played together. Pogba isn’t really the issue. The issue is our spine is so suspect to the counter attack due to lack of pace in Matic, Lindelof and Maguire. It’s not the best base to have behind Pogba and Bruno.

That's not true, we had exactly the same issues after first few games post-covid break. Teams have learned that Bruno will chase the ball but can't tackle (Mata-like), and Pogba is likely to give ball away as his idea of relieving pressure is to out-strengthen opponent. We can't press, and can't overcome pressing with that midfield.

With Pogba and Bruno we're more dangerous against teams that sit back though, that's why opposition is more likely to attack these days (in contrast to last season when most teams were happy to give up some space and possession).

 

[fps]

Ole is holding Pogba back by playing him very deep. Either play both Bruno and Pogba together further up the pitch or play only one of them. Or just put Pogba up front instead of Martial. Having Pogba on the same line as Matic or McT is making our defense look very weak.

Oh Pogba is held back wherever he plays by something or other. He isn’t fully fit right now but honestly it’s like he gets moved one foot to the left and suddenly people defend him because he isn’t in his best position. He is a highlights player, a moments player. He is not a 90 minutes player.

 

[lex talionis]

Before we shitcan Pogba as the next Djemba-Djemba, it might be worth keeping in perspective not a single player has put in two top performances in our first two league matches. Being blunt, everyone looked dire today and against Palace.

Pogba doesn’t look fit at all and criticism is warranted but it’s way too early in the season to draw any conclusions about his future with United. Bruno didn’t look all that great either today, apart from a very class penalty he took.

 

[Dante]

Our best midfield since the Fergie days has been Fred, McTominay and Bruno.

Pogba and Matic did okay in a series of games where the opposition sat off us. But even during our 14 game unbeaten run they were found out numerous times when we got pressed.

The Pogba, Matic and Bruno midfield is our most talented trio but also the most easily exploited. The knock on effect is that it's making the defence look even worse than it really is.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

4-3-3

 

[Lee565]

I think you can get both in the side but ole keeps on insisting on 4231.

Either go 3 at the back and play 3511 with matic, de beek, pogba in midfield with Fernandes playing behind the striker or play 433 and use Fernandes as a false 9 with 2 wide forwards out of rashford, greenwood and martial.

 

[He'sRaldo]

The key thing is that they should not waste energy as they're not defensive mids.

If we organize our possession and pressing so that they don't have to run back all game, then they'll be very good like the period after the lockdown.

The obvious change is a 4-3-3 to start with, but that's not the end of it.

 

[Falcow]

Unpopular opinion: our most balanced side in 2020 came between Bruno arriving and lock down i.e. when Bruno had Matic and Fred behind him

I have been saying this for ages. Remember how good we were when Bruno first arrived? Poster above said Pogba and Bruno were good together after lockdown. Not really I think, maybe first 4 or 5 games but the last 6 or 7 games of the season we were awful.

It's a bit like the Gerard and Lampard england scenario, there just is not space for both. It has to be one or the other for me.

Fred, Matic and one of Bruno and Pogba.

 

[Castia]

It will be fine once Pogba finds his fitness/form.

 

[DoomSlayer]

It’s not the best time to make that assessment when Pogba clearly isn’t match fit and looks miles off the pace.

There wasn’t many issues in the run of games since project restart when they both played together. Pogba isn’t really the issue. The issue is our spine is so suspect to the counter attack due to lack of pace in Matic, Lindelof and Maguire. It’s not the best base to have behind Pogba and Bruno.

One of the most overlooked problems with out best 11.

Bruno is the only one that likes to play with tenacity and has some speed, Pogba and Matic are slow, don't really press well even when fully fit, whilst Lindelof and Maguire are probably an even slower pairing, so it's a recipe for disaster against any team that has pacey players that can find the spaces to counter-attack us.

 

[baskinginthesun]

Actually I have no idea to be honest. I just assumed he may be feeling some ill effects of the virus because of how bad he's been

Probably has more to do with he had to self isolate for 2 weeks. My guess is he probably didn't do a lot of training while he was at home.

So what little fitness he did have just got wiped and is now trying to gain that back.

 

[ChaddyP]

Probably has more to do with he had to self isolate for 2 weeks. My guess is he probably didn't do a lot of training while he was at home.

So what little fitness he did have just got wiped and is now trying to gain that back.

Hope that's the case. Need him back on form. Looked like Sanchez on a good day out there today

 

[Mickson]

Jesus, people suggesting we put our best player on the bench because Ole can't fit him in the team. Funny guys! Ole should change his system to fit his players. You don't play 4-2-3-1 and put Paul Pogba in a holding position. A good manager is fixing this. One thing I know though, you can't keep Pogba there because he will not be good enough in defense and none of his strengths is of any use.

 

[davidmichael]

This is why we needed a pure defensive midfielder with lots of stamina and can cover ground quickly who’s sole job is to shield the defence instead of Van de Beek, the best comparison you can make with Fernandes and Pogba is Gerrard and Lampard years ago for England.

I remember everyone said to drop Beckham as he was playing poorly for a while and play someone like Carrick in between Gerrard and Lampard, it never happened as the managers refused to change tactics or personnel so a Gerrard/Lampard partnership never worked and it’ll most likely be the same for Fernandes/Pogba.

As good as Matic was at times last season he doesn’t have the legs or pace to cover Fernandes and Pogba or shield the defence which itself seriously lacks pace with a Lindelof/Maguire partnership, what’s the worst that can happen by moving to a 4-3-3 and trying to unleash both Fernandes and Pogba ?