Pogba is not a left winger

[HailtotheKing]

You can play him as an attacking midfielder, but it means losing Bruno from that position. I think you can play Bruno and Pogba in midfield in 433 and still keep Bruno's output, but I don't see how we have a good enough CM to play with them in order to keep the balance. So the headache continues. To me, a diamond could work, but it sacrifices a lot of our winger talent.

I’d that’s the case, surely getting in the very best quality CDM should’ve been the absolute priority instead of a luxury right winger creative player when we already had Greenwood and Amad and we’re stacked on the left (because we didn’t get rid of Lingard)? I’m happy with Sancho but it defies all logic for us to do that, especially if our goal was to keep Pogba.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Things are going to get really interesting once Rashford gets back. Either Pogba will have to switch back to mid or we’re going to have Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho fighting for one position. Nice. And if Pogba does get switched back to mid. Who should be his partner?

 

[MadMike]

He doesn't play as a left winger though. He plays like a LM/CM based on heatmaps. The depth on the LW is provided by Shaw.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Is not this. Is not that. I have no idea what he is! Can someone explain to me what he is?

I'd say he's a top quality attacking #8 who can be a world class all round CM when he's up for it and utilised correctly.

But, because his defensive game, which could be very good with his height, strength and mobility, is only good when he's up for the battle, then he's best when played in a midfield three, or when paired with a quality defensive midfielder next to him, so that he can be judged more on the quality he provides on the ball and his defensive work is solely a bonus.

In our system, there's not really been a place for that as we don't play 3 in CM and we don't have a quality DM and so rely on two players who both have to work defensively and it's what they bring on the ball that's the bonus. So we look too open defensively with Pogba as one of the two.

In the right system, he can produce truly world class #8 performances on a regular basis. But we paid huge for him and then haven't really ever played the system, or had the defensive midfield partner, that brings out the best in him on a regular basis. So we've had spells of seeing what he can produce, but not consistently. Which, for his undoubted talent, and huge fee, has felt tantalisingly frustrating.

 

[arthurka]

You can play him as an attacking midfielder, but it means losing Bruno from that position. I think you can play Bruno and Pogba in midfield in 433 and still keep Bruno's output, but I don't see how we have a good enough CM to play with them in order to keep the balance. So the headache continues. To me, a diamond could work, but it sacrifices a lot of our winger talent.

So to fit him in we need new players and a new system?
We have had couple of managers, different systems and different players but nothing seems to work.

 

[largelyworried]

So to fit him in we need new players and a new system?
We have had couple of managers, different systems and different players but nothing seems to work.

It might have stung a bit, but I'm increasingly thinking we'd have been better off letting Pogba go. I understand why Ole wanted to keep him, he's talented, but he's one of those players who needs a bunch of compatible players around him to perform consistently. Put it this way, I'd happily swap Pogba for a decent CM option right now, the squad would be more balanced.

 

[Cassidy]

Because he's phenomenal playing as a 10. I barely knew who he was before Ole played him there. Actually, I've watched some games where he played deeper for Portugal a few years back and he went unnoticed.

The numbers speak for themselves. Master move by Ole.

I have doubts whether Pogba is class even in his LCM position in a 3 man midfield in the EPL, but he sure as shit can't play in a 2. He's capable of the occasional brilliant game (Leeds, 2nd half Milan last year), but he doesn't have the output to play on the left.

For the money he's demanding he's not going to be squad player. He should be benched when Rashy gets backed and then let go at the end of the year.

His number at Sporting we're already insane?

 

[Cassidy]

I think the better explnataion is both Pogba and Bruno need to be partnered with two supporting, defensively sound players. So that's why we can't play both of them at the same time in 4-3-3 and also why Pogba was moved to the wing.

But do they? We haven't even partnered them with 1 yet.

Yes that is me saying Fred, McTominay, and Matic don't even count as 1, Matic would if he wasn't on his last legs

 

[Cassidy]

Just my observation based on his time at United. He's certainly not playing in the front line of a 4-3-3. He could probably play in midfield, but he's never played that role for us and if you look at his strengths - assists and goalscoring - playing him in midfield proper isn't going to get the most from that.

Have we bothered to try that yet?

 

[RUCK4444]

He needs to move centrally, he does anyway and I’m sort of beyond caring about the whole Pogba scenario as well as the game as a whole tbh.

That said need to move him centrally and find a partner that is defensively superior to what we have in the team currently. That’s the natural progression for this team no matter the manager (if Pogba renews.)

We need to do this for more than one single reason, one of them is getting Marcus back on the pitch as our natural left winger and one of our major threats going forward, this is a massive boost for us in itself.

 

[largelyworried]

Have we bothered to try that yet?

Not to my memory. But given that we already have Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, and Lingard going for those three positions, I don't really see Bruno being a great option there. Maybe it would be an option in the odd big game away from home, when we're trying to catch people on the counter, who knows. But as a Plan A option, I don't really see it.

 

[Borys]

But do they? We haven't even partnered them with 1 yet.

Yes that is me saying Fred, McTominay, and Matic don't even count as 1, Matic would if he wasn't on his last legs

Not that I think national football has much leverage on club football, but both Bruno and Pogba are always partnered with two defensively sound players around in midfield.

In response to your second paragraph I kind of agree, but I also think many many defensive midfielders will look out of depth next to Pogba/Bruno - and the chances of signing mythical "prime Kante" are slim anyway.

 

[eltigreFalcao]

He needs to be distributing the ball and linking defense with attack in a more central position. That's all we need him to do and obviously he could do it greatly with a defensive partner.

 

[Cassidy]

Not to my memory. But given that we already have Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho, Martial, and Lingard going for those three positions, I don't really see Bruno being a great option there. Maybe it would be an option in the odd big game away from home, when we're trying to catch people on the counter, who knows. But as a Plan A option, I don't really see it.

I read your post wrong, he is a midfielder and so should play in midfield, I refuse to believe we couldn't play Pogba and Bruno in a 3 with a competent DM when City played Ferdandiho with DeBruyne and Silva

 

[largelyworried]

I read your post wrong, he is a midfielder and so should play in midfield, I refuse to believe we couldn't play Pogba and Bruno in a 3 with a competent DM when City played Ferdandiho with DeBruyne and Silva

On paper it might be possible. However, I think there are a couple of things that are very different between their pair and ours.

Firstly, both Silva and De Bruyne are much more disciplined than Pogba and Bruno. Both Pogba and Bruno love to take risky first time passes to create chances. De Bruyne and particularly Silva were much more careful with their work and more comfortable holding on the possession for extended periods until the time is right. You can't have two players in the box always turning over possession chasing a chance, the balance would be all wrong.

Secondly, the entire City team around them was also much better in possession. Aguero developed into a decent player dropping outside the box, they had full backs comfortable on the ball coming into the middle to add numbers and they would play with at least one if not two wide players who liked to cut inside. They played with numbers and were heavily coached at keeping the ball.

Overall Silva and De Bruyne worked together because both they and the wider team were so strong at keeping the ball that any potential for being done on the counter was mitigated. In our case neither Bruno nor Pogba seem to have quite the right qualities to emulate them.

 

[git_united]

He belongs in a midfield 3 with Matic and vdB. Let's control games and create opportunities for our star forwards (including Bruno here). It would help with our defensive shape too, rather than having him and Greenwood contributing little when we're not in possession. I realize that bringing in Donny means one less space for our flying forwards but it's a worthy sacrifice to make to be able to control our destiny. Subbing one of Paul, Donny, and Matic off for one of the forwards would then be a natural switch to make if we needed to chase.

 

[Borys]

I read your post wrong, he is a midfielder and so should play in midfield, I refuse to believe we couldn't play Pogba and Bruno in a 3 with a competent DM when City played Ferdandiho with DeBruyne and Silva

City know how to press and all of their players put a lot of defensive effort. If you replace Silva with Pogba and De Bruyne with Bruno, they could probably do it. But that's irrelevant really, because we're not City. I think the opinion on here is Pogba and Bruno can't do it in midfield 3 at United.

 

[bosskeano]

If Ole isn't going to play Pogba as a CM then we are going to continue to lose matches against the likes of Villa and teams that sit in deep....all pogba does on the left is just come inside and play like an attacking mid which just clogs up space

he completely unbalances the squad when starting as a LW . At some point, Ole has to make a choice and either sit him or play him at CM. If he doesn't look like signing an extension then just sit him for all our big matches and play him in the FA Cup and against teams that playing him at CM wouldn't be a liability.

 

[Ali Dia]

Things are going to get really interesting once Rashford gets back. Either Pogba will have to switch back to mid or we’re going to have Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho fighting for one position. Nice. And if Pogba does get switched back to mid. Who should be his partner?

I think we will try to play a 4-3-3 when rashy comes back.

Rash Ron Mason
Pogba Bruno
Fred

I don’t love it but I think that’ll be the next thing. I just want us to press and give these teams that are clearly worse than us a hard days work. All they have to do is clog up the middle. It’s far too simple to just give us loads of the ball and restrict us to just scrappy chances around the sides and we’ve got terrible crossers and just one target in the box. Bread and butter for a few big defenders. We are wide open on the counter then as frustration builds and we commit more men forward.

 

[Cassidy]

City know how to press and all of their players put a lot of defensive effort. If you replace Silva with Pogba and De Bruyne with Bruno, they could probably do it. But that's irrelevant really, because we're not City. I think the opinion on here is Pogba and Bruno can't do it in midfield 3 at United.

So they have good coaches and a good team setup.

 

[golden_blunder]

When will Ole just go 433 with Bruno and Pogba as the two 8’s?

When he’s got superman behind them?

 

[davidmichael]

No matter what we do with Pogba SOMEONE will lose out on their position to accommodate him even though Pogba is arguably the best player in the squad at his best, reality is as France and Juve both showed is Pogba needs to be in a 4-3-3 to be at his best.

If we go 4-3-3 it means getting a pure out and out defensive midfielder in who’s sole job is to sit in front of the back four and shield it but also means Fernandes AND Pogba both playing as an 8 instead of Fernandes as a 10 and theres no saying Fernandes will score or assist as much, that said in my mind we create much more with Fernandes AND Pogba playing together.

Playing Pogba as the left sided attacker of a three behind the centre forward means we’re overrun in midfield and also we lack creativity as no one else can play passes from deep like Pogba but then in two man midfield he doesn’t have the tactical or positional sense which means again we’re overrun or outnumbered.

This does come down to Ole though as he should see what so many see and that is constantly playing 4-2-3-1 limits us massively and the fact he doesn’t change things up tactically other than the players on the pitch shows he has no plan B, I’m not an ‘Ole out’ but the fact he stumbles upon things by default (early McTominay/Fred partnership, Pogba on the left and Greenwood from the right) then overplays them or it becomes clear it’s not a long term solution is a major problem.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

So they have good coaches and a good team setup.

TBF I haven’t yet seen PL side, Norwich apart, that doesn’t have a clear midfield pattern of play. Whatever the quality of the players, each knows his role and performs it to the best of their ability. We are very erratic and disjointed; Pogba on the left, Pogba in the middle, Pogba behind the front 2, Bruno behind the front two. It’s hardly surprising so many teams can bypass our midfield; they have no idea where their playing or if their playing from one game to the next

 

[peridigm]

I think we will try to play a 4-3-3 when rashy comes back.

Rash Ron Mason
Pogba Bruno
Fred

I don’t love it but I think that’ll be the next thing. I just want us to press and give these teams that are clearly worse than us a hard days work. All they have to do is clog up the middle. It’s far too simple to just give us loads of the ball and restrict us to just scrappy chances around the sides and we’ve got terrible crossers and just one target in the box. Bread and butter for a few big defenders. We are wide open on the counter then as frustration builds and we commit more men forward.

Wouldn't McTominay be suited better to that role? Has better defensive capabilities. Faster. Taller. Stronger. He plays CB for Scotland right?

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

I think we will try to play a 4-3-3 when rashy comes back.

Rash Ron Mason
Pogba Bruno
Fred

This will be a train wreck, surely. The last thing you want Fred doing is playing a holding position behind those two, he'll look even worse than he does when he's stranded next to Matic in the 4-2-3-1.

If we're going to try this I'd just stick McTominay at the back, he's equally poor positionally but possibly a little more composed on the ball.

Although really, the best solution with our current midfielders (assuming Van de Beek is just not an option) is to keep the 4-2-3-1 but actually play it with some shape as opposed to this ridiculously lopsided 4-2-4: pull Fernandes back a little (and slow down his passing), get Pogba to show more discipline and play like a proper deep playmaker, and have the wide forwards track back more. "Greenwood / Rashford / Sancho don't track back" isn't nearly good enough, the coaches need to be on their case to press properly.

 

[Ali Dia]

I don’t get how you guys think Mc T (or Pogba) can play there but fred can’t. Mct doesn’t get on the ball or make anything happen. He doesn’t tackle much. Didn’t he have something like 25 passes against Villa? Physically he might look like he’s what we need but we really need constant probing tempo setting passes and a bit of a defensive screen. Pogba can’t defend or play a simple tempo setting game. Donny might be just the guy if he keeps improving. I don’t think midfield actually matters all that much or who sets the tempo if our forwards don’t press as a unit. All we are doing is slowly getting it forward into a congested area x 50 and hoping something scrappy comes off. We should press very hard from the first minute. Make them give up the first goal as quickly as possible. Go compact and hit them on the counter and conserve energy. You don’t need to press hard for 90 mins. Just press smart as a unit. Knock it around the rest of the time have them chasing the ball. Not this half arsed disorganised mess we’ve been looking at the last few weeks. It’s neither here nor there.

 

[Giggsy13]

Pogba should not be playing as a left winger, it’s completely idiotic from Ole.

 

[Bobcat]

Things are going to get really interesting once Rashford gets back. Either Pogba will have to switch back to mid or we’re going to have Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho fighting for one position. Nice. And if Pogba does get switched back to mid. Who should be his partner?

Fred.

This may sound a bit dramatic, but i think the season (and Oles job for that matter) depends on making Pogba work in CM alongside Fred/McTomminay/VdB.

Imo, the reason we look so flat at times, like vs Villa in the weekend is because we spend to damn long transitioning from defense to attack and with McFred we basically offer no threat or penetration through the middle.

 

[Dominos]

On paper it might be possible. However, I think there are a couple of things that are very different between their pair and ours.

Firstly, both Silva and De Bruyne are much more disciplined than Pogba and Bruno. Both Pogba and Bruno love to take risky first time passes to create chances. De Bruyne and particularly Silva were much more careful with their work and more comfortable holding on the possession for extended periods until the time is right. You can't have two players in the box always turning over possession chasing a chance, the balance would be all wrong.

Secondly, the entire City team around them was also much better in possession. Aguero developed into a decent player dropping outside the box, they had full backs comfortable on the ball coming into the middle to add numbers and they would play with at least one if not two wide players who liked to cut inside. They played with numbers and were heavily coached at keeping the ball.

Overall Silva and De Bruyne worked together because both they and the wider team were so strong at keeping the ball that any potential for being done on the counter was mitigated. In our case neither Bruno nor Pogba seem to have quite the right qualities to emulate them.

Spot on. They have the best in the world at coaching how to keep possession as a team and how to press as a team. By comparison we're 3 years into our current regime and we still look like a team of individuals.

So good luck thinking we can simply switch to 4-3-3 and play like a prime Pep side.

 

[eire-red]

On paper it might be possible. However, I think there are a couple of things that are very different between their pair and ours.

Firstly, both Silva and De Bruyne are much more disciplined than Pogba and Bruno. Both Pogba and Bruno love to take risky first time passes to create chances. De Bruyne and particularly Silva were much more careful with their work and more comfortable holding on the possession for extended periods until the time is right. You can't have two players in the box always turning over possession chasing a chance, the balance would be all wrong.

Secondly, the entire City team around them was also much better in possession. Aguero developed into a decent player dropping outside the box, they had full backs comfortable on the ball coming into the middle to add numbers and they would play with at least one if not two wide players who liked to cut inside. They played with numbers and were heavily coached at keeping the ball.

Overall Silva and De Bruyne worked together because both they and the wider team were so strong at keeping the ball that any potential for being done on the counter was mitigated. In our case neither Bruno nor Pogba seem to have quite the right qualities to emulate them.

Agree with this, and also the fact that at the moment, there seems to be a real lack of world class holding midfielders capable of doing the job Fernandinho did.

I don't think Bruno and Pobga should play in the same team. Both are players who deliver in moments, and don't necessarily contribute to controlling a game. We've basically shoehorned him into that LW position because Sancho hasn't hit the ground running, Martial is off form and Rashford is injured. He can't play in midfield, and in no. 10 he's not getting in ahead of Bruno.

As frustrating as Bruno can be, you know what to expect from him for the majority of the season. For Pogba, his form seems to depend on what side of the bed he wakes up on. It's a tough call for Ole, because you don't want to lose a player of Pogba's quality.

We've let other top players go recently, such as Lukaku and Di Maria. What is the obsession of holding onto Pogba? I just don't get it. In Bruno, I see a player superior in almost every department, so do we really suffer that much if he's not at the club anymore?

For me, goals and creativity are not where we are lacking this season, so why is the thought of losing Pogba thought of as some sort of hammer blow to United? I don't see it.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

I don’t get how you guys think Mc T can play there but fred can’t.

McTominay is a passenger on the ball, but Fred is a headless chicken without it. In a 4-3-3 behind Pogba and Fernandes, you probably need the guy behind them more for what he does when they give the ball away - I'd trust McTominay more than Fred when someone's running at us through the center.

Fred's the better player of the two individually, but not in this particular role

 

[spiriticon]

The only reason to play Pogba left wing is to absolve him of defending responsibilities in the middle of the pitch, and to give him a chance to be further up the pitch to make an impression in attack.

He can't dribble like a winger, has no pace (or inner will) to bomb up and down the wing for 90 minutes, and can't really cross with both feet (I've never seen him do it with his left)

Why would you ever want to play him there full time?

 

[finneh]

When he’s got superman behind them?

Definitely this. Makelele in his absolute prime would struggle to cope behind Bruno and Pogba.

 

[golden_blunder]

I know he has had a fab start to the system with assists but for me the entire midfield is unbalanced with him & Bruno in the team.

mid probably still on reflection let Pogba go and go with Bruno, building a solid, mobile midfield around him, who can pass to a reasonable standard themselves

 

[Borys]

So they have good coaches and a good team setup.

They do, but this isn't easily replicated with just competent DM behind them. Which was how this discussion started.

Pep would've gone bald again seeing Pogba and Bruno in his midfield.

 

[Cassidy]

They do, but this isn't easily replicated with just competent DM behind them. Which was how this discussion started.

Pep would've gone bald again seeing Pogba and Bruno in his midfield.

Or he would have put structure to their play.

 

[Polar]

It’s easy to be charmed by Pogba’s greatness, and it often makes us blind for his weaknesses and how much he limits our system or balance on the midfield. It feels like United are kept hostage by Pogba’s great skills; we don’t manage to solve our midfield issue with Pogba on the team.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I'm not sure I've seen anything from Pogba to suggest he can consistently play at anywhere near his best in a midfield two regardless of who is in there with him. He's at his best operating in the final third with a top holding player and a dedicated water carrier behind him to free him of defensive responsibilities. Having watched him in the youth team I'd love him to become the top midfielder I thought he'd be but I don't see the sense in moving heaven and earth to accommodate him as an attacking midfielder when Fernandes can do the job better without needing anywhere near as much support.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

The only reason to play Pogba left wing is to absolve him of defending responsibilities in the middle of the pitch, and to give him a chance to be further up the pitch to make an impression in attack.

He can't dribble like a winger, has no pace (or inner will) to bomb up and down the wing for 90 minutes, and can't really cross with both feet (I've never seen him do it with his left)

Why would you ever want to play him there full time?

It’s easy to be charmed by Pogba’s greatness, and it often makes us blind for his weaknesses and how much he limits our system or balance on the midfield. It feels like United are kept hostage by Pogba’s great skills; we don’t manage to solve our midfield issue with Pogba on the team.

Definitely agree with these.

It's worth remembering that Pogba turns 29 in a few months. He was 23 when he signed for us, and I'm struggling to think of any particular area of his game that he's managed to improve in the last five years. He's still good at the same things he was before coming back, and he still has the exact same infuriating weaknesses.

A player with his outrageous technical and athletic gifts really should have been a complete midfielder at this point in his career - I used to let him off for it when he was younger and playing under a fairly unimaginative manager, bearing pretty much the entirety of the creative burden. Now he's one of our senior players and has plenty of top-notch support around him, he needs to suck it up and take some responsibility in the center of midfield. That's where the team needs him.

 

[T00lsh3d]

I bet he’s shit-hot in those little 5 vs 5 training games though