Pogba's transformation under Jose

[Jib]

Of course it is, but that version cant exist in England. In Italy they rely more on tactics and less on closing down and physicality. He can't sit there just outside the box picking passes anymore. He needed to change his game and he has done. He's more involved defensively, he's become more solid on the ball and learned when to play simple.

He was better at Juventus defensively and offensively. Overall he was twice the player than he's here because Allegri get the best out of Pogba by building the team around him.

Mourinho is trying to turn a WC and unique player into a good CM for the PL

What a waste.

 

[remember me]

He was better at Juventus defensively and offensively. Overall he was twice the player than he's here because Allegri get the best out of Pogba by building the team around him.

Mourinho is trying to turn a WC and unique player into a good CM for the PL

What a waste.

What a totally ridiculous post
It's clear Pogba gets more of the ball and is more central to play here than he was at Juventus
Better attackingly & defensively?
Did you watch him play for Juventus? He was the left sided box-box midfielder with less defensive responsibility & more freedom to attack. However he got less of the ball & was less a play maker.
Mourinho is helping develop him into a more all round play making midfielder we really need.
Something similar happened to Zidane and Scholes in their careers and they became better players for it
Not a waste at all
Again wow pathetic post

 

[Jib]

What a totally ridiculous post
It's clear Pogba gets more of the ball and is more central to play here than he was at Juventus
Better attackingly & defensively?
Did you watch him play for Juventus? He was the left sided box-box midfielder with less defensive responsibility & more freedom to attack. However he got less of the ball & was less a play maker.
Mourinho is helping develop him into a more all round play making midfielder we really need.
Something similar happened to Zidane and Scholes in their careers and they became better players for it
Not a waste at all
Again wow pathetic post

I don't understand your post. He became a better player in what ?

Did you watch Pogba at Juventus last season ?

Allegri had allowed Pogba to have a unique role that get the best of his qualities because the team was built around him.

When Pogba played against City, he was twice as good as De Bruyne and Yaya Touré ( and made a great assist for the winner goal of Mandzukic ). When he played against Naples, the second best team in Italy, Hamsik looked like a Sunday League player and Pogba often scored amazing goals. And against Bayern he humiliated Lahm and scored against Neuer

This season he's a flat-track bully because he plays out of position...he NEVER played in a midfield 2 with Juventus or in #10 position when the team parked the bus ( against Liverpool at Andfield )

For sure, Pogba has improved compared to the beginning of the season. It makes sense, if he hadn't, it would have been weird.

At the beginning of the season, he was out of shape ( no pre-season ), new league, new teammates, new position/role and a huge pressure because of his price tag.

But he regressed this season and it isn't his fault. He can play at the same level of last season but the coach asked him to turn into a different player because it's better for his new team.

Pogba last season was a unique player, a genuine WC player. This season, he's a good CM for a PL side and can be a great CM when he'll adapted to this new position.

But if it continues, I'm afraid for the rest of his career. Because Pogba can be much better than a great CM for a PL side and Mourinho doesn't seem to be the coach able to get the best of him and allow him to be one of the greatest players in history like Socrates, Gullit and not a Scholes/Gerrard type of midfielder ...

But I can also understand Mourinho.
His mission is to quickly build a strong team even if that sacrifice Pogba's development. Because to exploit 100% of Pogba's potential , you need several and specific players. Mourinho hasn't the time for that, he's here for 2-3 seasons, not a decade. It easier to bridle Pogba in CM position because he has so much talents that he'll learn quickly this new role and become a great player there that his team needs

It's rather Pogba's fault. He should have made sure that the team was going to be built around him before signing.

Pogba became quickly a global superstar because his potential is scary ( all time great potential ) but he might lose his potential and become just a star because he plays for Manchester United and after his career, he'll be remembered as one of the greatest PL midfielder but not in the same bracket that Socrates, Gullit...

Because Pogba is that special, that's why the Juventus fans were very angry and they still talk about Pogba despite the fact that they sold a player 120 m € who cost them barely 800k in 2012 and are in CL finals this year

 

[Bepi]

I have seen him vs Ajax and he is a more rounded player for sure, bigger responsibilities and more control of the game, at Juve he had no critical duties for the balance of the team. Not sure his ceiling his a role a la Marchisio though, his physical structure being much more suited to a more attacking role, say something between Kaka and more poignantly Gullit, that is to say a running thunder, something this year in England we saw from Alli. Pogba should be more free next year while playing for a stronger version of United, with better players around him and a less defensive approach from Mou.

 

[Jib]

I have seen him vs Ajax and he is a more rounded player for sure, bigger responsibilities and more control of the game, at Juve he had no critical duties for the balance of the team. Not sure his ceiling his a role a la Marchisio though, his physical structure being much more suited to a more attacking role, say something between Kaka and more poignantly Gullit, that is to say a running thunder, something this year in England we saw from Alli. Pogba should be more free next year while playing for a stronger version of United, with better players around him and a less defensive approach from Mou.

Last season Marchisio with Khedira was the water-carrier and Pogba the fuoriclasse. But for some people, he needs to be like Marchisio if he wants to improve and become a WC player

And I don't think that Mourinho will allow him more freedom..he wants player like James and Griezmann and see Pogba as a CM unfortunately

 

[Bepi]

Last season Marchisio with Khedira was the water-carrier and Pogba the fuoriclasse. But for some people, he needs to be like Marchisio if he wants to improve and become a WC player

And I don't think that Mourinho will allow him more freedom..he wants player like James and Griezmann and see Pogba as a CM unfortunately

To be honest, I think Pogba does not care, his fat paycheck & personal status as a celebrity being better than any WC pretence as a mere footballer. Just satisfy the manager, play for the team and bring results home. He is an adult now.

 

[Bepi]

What makes you think pogba doesn't care?

Man you sound harsh on the guy

The most striking aspect is he does not seem a boy anymore. He ate a lot of sh*t during the season but worked very hard and developed a thick skin. He was very happy with the trophy on Wed night and spoke as a team player, as a leader. It may be worrying in the perspective of his long-term career at United, if you want: Rooney was far too generous to switch role and work his socks off for the team once he lost his boyish sharpness as a striker, but the paycheck was so damn good. Again, it is adult life.

 

[POF]

Mourinho is definitely changing his role and it's a great move. Pogba could be a very good attacking midfield player but he has the ability to be one of the best central midfield players in the world, maybe one of the best to ever play the game.

Giving him an advanced starting position negates his athleticism and his ability to spot a pass from deep. He isn't a clever player who can create in congested areas around the box and is poor with his back to goal.

He's working on his discipline in the role this season and he has shown huge improvement. The big challenge is whether he can be the playmaker and boss a game from deep. Currently he is very careless in possession but with maturity, I think he can.

If you were to list the attributes of the perfect central midfield player, I don't think I've seen another player who ticks more of the boxes.

 

[ghagua]

Maybe it's just me, but I would l like him to spend more time on the ball. I want him to absolutely boss the midfield.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

I have seen him vs Ajax and he is a more rounded player for sure, bigger responsibilities and more control of the game, at Juve he had no critical duties for the balance of the team. Not sure his ceiling his a role a la Marchisio though, his physical structure being much more suited to a more attacking role, say something between Kaka and more poignantly Gullit, that is to say a running thunder, something this year in England we saw from Alli. Pogba should be more free next year while playing for a stronger version of United, with better players around him and a less defensive approach from Mou.

Good post, that. The Juve system already had good midfielders (Vidal, Marchisio, Pirlo) and after they bought Pogba he was used on the left precisely because they had to adhere to the tactics not because that was his preferred position (played CM for United).
All this talk about not being played in the right position is juvenile; It will take time for him to get back to playing with a different tactic as his focus in Juve was to be an attacking outlet only (who is physical enough to not lose the ball), which I think he has done now. Mourinho not using him well,etc are things to say when you can't justify how his stats have improved since Juve.

Expect us to go for a destroyer type next season who would free up Pogba and Herrera and also a LB who can overlap - he had Marchisio/Evra to cover him and work the channels at Juve. I know how Mou likes to set-up his team and he likes a destroyer (Makelele, Cambiasso) who compliments the two B2B. This is how we'll line up in the top games:

-----------------------------------Pogba Herrera
-----------------------------------------DM

 

[remember me]

Mourinho is definitely changing his role and it's a great move. Pogba could be a very good attacking midfield player but he has the ability to be one of the best central midfield players in the world, maybe one of the best to ever play the game.

Giving him an advanced starting position negates his athleticism and his ability to spot a pass from deep. He isn't a clever player who can create in congested areas around the box and is poor with his back to goal.

He's working on his discipline in the role this season and he has shown huge improvement. The big challenge is whether he can be the playmaker and boss a game from deep. Currently he is very careless in possession but with maturity, I think he can.

If you were to list the attributes of the perfect central midfield player, I don't think I've seen another player who ticks more of the boxes.

This all day long
And the thing is unlike someone like Gerrard earlier in his career Pogba obviously wants more responsibility, to developed and become a better player. I often thought if Gerrard was managed by a Ferguson or a Mourinho they would have helped him become a better all round player not just a selfish Roy of the rovers glorier

 

[JaffyJoe]

He is not a controller. We need to buy somebody who can control the midfield and let him do what he does best. Chance creation, unlocking defensive, shooting and scoring from range. He can be very good defensively but he often looses his assignment, one caveat of hm getting this free role would be that he is locked in defensively. At the moment Mourinho has got him trying to play three roles in one and it's affecting his performances.

 

[11101]

He was better at Juventus defensively and offensively. Overall he was twice the player than he's here because Allegri get the best out of Pogba by building the team around him.

Mourinho is trying to turn a WC and unique player into a good CM for the PL

What a waste.

He was a kid at Juventus. Talented but undisciplined in a setup and league that allowed him to get away with it. If you brought the whole Juventus team to Manchester he still couldn't play that way here. The league doesnt allow it.

He is losing his weaknesses and maturing into a top class all round player with us.

 

[POF]

This all day long
And the thing is unlike someone like Gerrard earlier in his career Pogba obviously wants more responsibility, to developed and become a better player. I often thought if Gerrard was managed by a Ferguson or a Mourinho they would have helped him become a better all round player not just a selfish Roy of the rovers glorier

Gerrard is a good example and Roy of the Rovers a good analogy actually. Some of Pogba's flaws are similar to Gerrard at his worst. Pogba likes to go for the difficult pass and often misplaces simple passes. Like Gerrard he also goes for some ridiculously over ambitious long shots.

Saying all of that, I don't think Pogba has the same ego and won't have the media kissing his arse every minute of every day. I expect him to mature and get the "Roy of the Rovers" stuff out of his game.

 

[Drainy]

His natural game is to take risks on the ball. Jose is the perfect manager to develop him into a well rounded midfielder.
He is showing excellent progress in the defensive side and I'm sure that with time he will learn better game management.

Add on top of his quality progressive passing, he is an athlete who can go box to box, is really difficult to dispossess and has a powerful long range shot (although he's not been too successful from range this year) he can really become a great midfielder once his decision making improves.

He has always been a player that has flittered in and out of games and it's really nice to see that he is learning to be more consistent and involved.

 

[remember me]

He is not a controller. We need to buy somebody who can control the midfield and let him do what he does best. Chance creation, unlocking defensive, shooting and scoring from range. He can be very good defensively but he often looses his assignment, one caveat of hm getting this free role would be that he is locked in defensively. At the moment Mourinho has got him trying to play three roles in one and it's affecting his performances.

I disagree, I think it's his all round game and capacity in a midfield two to be creative and score goals that's his real ability. he doesn't score enough goals or have the attacking play to play as a pure attacking midfielder or no. 8. a midfield 3 with Pogba as the most attacking midfielder would be overly defensive and create too much burden on the front 3
Pogba is our present and future player maker in midfielder. I'd prefer we buy a top quality 10 or deep sticker than a Kroos to play in midfield with Pogba and a DM

 

[Adisa]

"He was better defensively at Juventus"
100% nonsense.
Also matched his most prolific season at Juve despite marrying the goal posts this season. Also created a ridiculous amount of chances this season. Up there with any player in the league.
Lots of rubbish being spouted in this thread.

 

[JaffyJoe]

I disagree, I think it's his all round game and capacity in a midfield two to be creative and score goals that's his real ability. he doesn't score enough goals or have the attacking play to play as a pure attacking midfielder or no. 8. a midfield 3 with Pogba as the most attacking midfielder would be overly defensive and create too much burden on the front 3
Pogba is our present and future player maker in midfielder. I'd prefer we buy a top quality 10 or deep sticker than a Kroos to play in midfield with Pogba and a DM

I don't think he has a good all round game on the pitch. He has good all round attributes: Tall, strong, mobile, technical but he has gaps in how he applies those talent on the pitch. But he is an attack minded player, definitely an 8 (or a 6 in the right system). I would never want him to be the brain of my midfield, perhaps when he gets a little older but he has always played his best with a player of that ilk in the team. Pogba with a Kroos who actually controls the tempo of the game and makes sure we stay on top of the opposition, gets the ball to our attackers would be brilliant. Pogba is top of the charts for chance creation,his dribbling and passing can unlock teams and his striking from distance. At Juve he het got 20 goals plus assists in his last season.That is what I would need for him. Mourinho asks him to do things he which aren't natural to him.

 

[remember me]

I don't think he has a good all round game on the pitch. He has good all round attributes: Tall, strong, mobile, technical but he has gaps in how he applies those talent on the pitch. But he is an attack minded player, definitely an 8 (or a 6 in the right system). I would never want him to be the brain of my midfield, perhaps when he gets a little older but he has always played his best with a player of that ilk in the team. Pogba with a Kroos who actually controls the tempo of the game and makes sure we stay on top of the opposition, gets the ball to our attackers would be brilliant. Pogba is top of the charts for chance creation,his dribbling and passing can unlock teams and his striking from distance. At Juve he het got 20 goals plus assists in his last season.That is what I would need for him. Mourinho asks him to do things he which aren't natural to him.

I don't agree and sometimes it's ok to ask players to work on areas they can improve on
People forget Roy Keane came her as an attacking midfielder
Sir Alex used him intermittently in his first season and he even played at full back
He learnt and developed, replaced robson playing with ince then effectively replaced ince eventually playing with butt & scholes
If Keane and Sir Alex together hadn't made efforts to develop him as a player he wouldn't have gone on to be the best CM player in Europe at the time
Similar situation to Pogba, I think he can be the best midfielder in Europe if he developes his all round game and become a champions league winning player

 

[Robertd0803]

In a previous defence of Pogba, I suggested that Mourinho is trying to change his game and turn him from potentially WC 'luxury player' into a midfield general.

I think this is still the case and he is slowly but surely getting there.

Yeah, think a lot of people are forgetting that Pogba didn't have a pre-season with us and was pretty much in the starting 11 as soon as possible. The Pogba at the start of the season is very different from the Pogba that we have at the end of the season. Much more assured and composed. Thrilled he is with us.

Can't wait to see some of his ridiculous dances and dabs whilst holding more and more silverware. The tears will be too sweet.

Too sweet. Love seeing it because of the reaction it will provoke from opposition fans.

 

[RuudTom83]

Why can't we just call him a CM?

Fans and Pundits seem to be constantly stuck on defining his position or role and discuss 'what is his best quality' it does my head in!

Just call him a CM and judge him against any other CM in the league. I don't see many CM that are better than him! and in his first season back at the club he could have easily had 30+ assist/goals if luck had gone his way.

Pogba is literally the least of Jose's worries.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

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[JPRouve]

I don't see a transformation, it's all about his head when he is focused he is great, when he is not focused he is wank.

 

[AltiUn]

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I think Souness would disagree.

 

[Mallrat83]

The problem for pogba is that hefty transfer fee. That has raised expectations to a silly level. However looking at his performances throughout the season I don't think it's been negative overall. Like many other players, he's not reached his full capability for us yet, but that's because he has to first learn and then perfect how Jose wants him to play in his team. This isn't something that will happen overnight. I think if Jose can make some good and sensible signings in midfield n the summer we could see them bring out the best in pogba because I don't think fellaini is the answer.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

People forget Roy Keane came her as an attacking midfielder
Sir Alex used him intermittently in his first season and he even played at full back
He learnt and developed, replaced robson playing with ince then effectively replaced ince eventually playing with butt & scholes
If Keane and Sir Alex together hadn't made efforts to develop him as a player he wouldn't have gone on to be the best CM player in Europe at the time

Nonsense premise.
Barmy justifications for it.

 

[The Mitcher]

First thing that came to my mind when I read OP. I get it Mourinho is now our manager. He is berry berry froot.

The return of berry berry fruit

 

[Seasidered]

Expecting more from our french carlton palmer next season.

 

[Vashu]

Our defensive midfielder at his worst.

 

[Adnandos]

Hes incredible tbh

 

[AshRK]

Pogba can not be compared to Gerrard, as he is technically superior to Gerrard. There is a reason Gerrard can never be put in the same bracket of scholars/nedved/zidane because all of them were technically far superior to Gerrard. Same with pogba, he is technically very good. His ball control is second to none, his passing ability is second to none, his dribbling ability for a midfielder is second to none. The only thing that pogba needs to learn is sometimes its better to keep things simple and not always try the hollywood flicks. But maybe it's because of the price tag that he feels obliged to justify the tag and tries some silly things. As the season progressed he toned down that and was more influential.

The other thing he needs to do more is , go inside the box more and not always rely on long shot. He can score many goals if he starts going into the penalty area and not just stand outside the box.

Pogba will become the best midfielder in the league, next season or the coming season to be more precise, he will be more confident considering he will have a season of football under his belt and will have a proper preseason.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

^ Yeah, Pogba is already an all-around "complete" footballer, and at his best position, centre midfielder, he got all the football abilities (skills and technique) plus the physique already to be the best centre midfielder, all except imo the tactical and defensive aspect. Additionally you could include his goal-scoring input can be improve but it's good enough.

The tactical aspect involves being discipline positionally, making the simple yet effective passes, follow instructions into performing set of tactics against specified opponents, etc and the advanced level of controlling the midfield with team play passes and controlling the paces of the game (see Scholes, Iniesta and Xavi since they're masters at this art). The defensive aspect easily involve tackling (stand and slide tackles), aerial duels, marking, physical tussles, interceptions, concentrations and defensive positions.

All of those are Pogba's obvious weaknesses which is why it make sense to play him in a midfield of three but that won't help him improve into becoming a real complete centre-midfielder. Which is why being coached under Mourinho and playing for Manchester United, will help adopted those into his playstyle. The tough physical high energy EPL can also improve his physical defensive aspect. The price tag can be a big motivating challenge too to him. It's amazing he's back here after learning his trade at and exposed to the tactical Serie A, where with Juventus he's free to expressed his natural instinct in performing with flair, skill and grace. Now at this stage of his career, with France and us, it's time for him to shoulder the responsibility of a central midfielder ~ controlling the pace of the game and bossing the midfield with strength, steel, skills, simple effective passes and tactics.

Mourinho could easily coached those tactical and defensive aspects into Pogba, and as we've seen last season, his tactical discipline and defensive contributions improved by a mile, and theoretically should continue to improve. Bear in mind that with France, Deschamps is drilling this tactical necessities into Pogba too since he is struggling with his CM role isn't he, because it's a demanding position. If he can't play well in a midfield of two, then he's not the best centre-midfielder yet.

Under Mourinho, playing for Manchester United, in a midfield of two will turn Pogba into the complete package best midfielder. Relax, have some patience. Oh and it's not like he plays in a midfield of two all game, sometimes when required we do play midfield of three, and still Pogba played well in whatever formation we're playing with if he's playing CM or CDM on the left. Besides he's yet at his prime, that is a very big potential there. He's darn good already, imagine if he'll improve even further, adding more steel and control to his game. Majestic.

Midfield of two:

CAM
Pogba-----Herrera​

Midfield of three:​

Pogba------Herrera
CDM

or

Pogba------CM
Herrera
​

 

[Zlatattack]

Midfield of two:

CAM
Pogba-----Herrera​

Midfield of three:​

Pogba------Herrera
CDM

or

Pogba------CM
Herrera
​

Just looking at those formations made think about Pogbas performances this season. He is deployed on the left side of the pitch (centralish but generally on the left hand side). He's had no decent support on that side this season. Blind is not very quick and Shaw and Martial have been hit and miss. Whereas Herrera (not taking any credit from him) has been lucky to work with the ever professional Valencia and Mata and mkhitaryan (who was crap for a bit of the season tbh).

 

[Stacks]

Pogba can not be compared to Gerrard, as he is technically superior to Gerrard. There is a reason Gerrard can never be put in the same bracket of scholars/nedved/zidane because all of them were technically far superior to Gerrard. Same with pogba, he is technically very good. His ball control is second to none, his passing ability is second to none, his dribbling ability for a midfielder is second to none. The only thing that pogba needs to learn is sometimes its better to keep things simple and not always try the hollywood flicks. But maybe it's because of the price tag that he feels obliged to justify the tag and tries some silly things. As the season progressed he toned down that and was more influential.

The other thing he needs to do more is , go inside the box more and not always rely on long shot. He can score many goals if he starts going into the penalty area and not just stand outside the box.

Pogba will become the best midfielder in the league, next season or the coming season to be more precise, he will be more confident considering he will have a season of football under his belt and will have a proper preseason.

I genuinely disagree with this and would like to know in what aspects he is technically superior? Also his game is more error prone and less refined than the other players you have listed, especially Zidane and Scholes

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Just looking at those formations made think about Pogbas performances this season. He is deployed on the left side of the pitch (centralish but generally on the left hand side). He's had no decent support on that side this season. Blind is not very quick and Shaw and Martial have been hit and miss. Whereas Herrera (not taking any credit from him) has been lucky to work with the ever professional Valencia and Mata and mkhitaryan (who was crap for a bit of the season tbh).

Yeah, that's another somewhat small factor to Pogba's dip in performance, not much support from the left side. Contrast that to our right where Valencia and Mata are flying. I remember vividly though when Martial and Shaw were on form last season, they combine well with Pogba and he's more threatening performing better in those few games so I guess not many remember. Rashford and Mkhi tried their best on the left but inconsistent. When our left side is not supported well in attacks, Pogba have to go solo. I guess that's why Mourinho is bringing in Perisic, he's lethal on the left and will help release Pogba's attacking prowess better .

 

[AshRK]

I genuinely disagree with this and would like to know in what aspects he is technically superior? Also his game is more error prone and less refined than the other players you have listed, especially Zidane and Scholes

The biggest criticism I had with Gerrard was his lack of composure on the ball. He was good in scoring goals and even his long balls were ok but pogba's ball control and composure on the ball is much better. Also, won't say pogba is error prone, like I said he tried too much and hence making errors.

Aa for him not being scholes/zidane, ffs pogba is 24. The amount of things he has achieved at such a young age is incredible. Obviously he will be less refined at 24 compared to zidane and scholes.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This is something that's become evident to me as the season went on, was obvious today in particular. When he first joined he was self-indulgent, holding onto the ball for too long, trying pointless tricks, getting caught out of position and not tracking back etc.

Does anyone else feel his game is maturing under Jose? As the season has gone on his desire and maturity has increased too. He's tracking back, not spending as much time on the ball, sprinting forward when we're in posession to help the attack and sprinting back when out of posession to help the defence.

Exciting to see what Jose is turning him into.

Apart from the fact he is maturing under Jose. The biggest fact is he took a while to adjust to the pace of the EPL game. That is why he'd hold on to the ball seconds too long, fail to track a man etc. With a lot pre season under his belt and him now used to the ebb and flow of EOL football. He will be a midfield beast. Just like Xhaka over at Arsenal

 

[Escobar]

We need to play a three man midfield next season with Paul the furthest one. I have a feeling he will have an amazing season and Jose will set us up to get the best out of Paul now with Zlatan gone

 

[Roberto420]

Gotta say he has been absolutely flawless tonight in a midfield 2 with kante showed everything in his locker, skill strength vision defense splitting passing defensively sound completely bossed the game and midfield,

A joy to watch lets hope he kicks on next season with us, cause tonight he looked like the best cm in the world.

 

[#07]

Even with 10 men against 11, Pogba looked very, very at home in a two man midfield tonight.

As others have noted, it has been coming. Really I think a lot of it was him trying too hard. Maybe winning the Europa League has helped him calm down a bit? Tonight he wasn't trying to do everything alone, he was playing it simple when simplicity was demanded, he was doing skills when the situation needed it. Great performance.

Lets see what his critics say tomorrow.