[OrcaFat]

Liverpool conceded 3 goals to a newly promoted team.

Are they melting down and wanting Klopp out ?

Let’s hope not.

I’m not claiming this is useful evidence but I heard a fair few dippers calling into talk sport last year saying Klopp had “taken them as far as he can” and it was “time for a change”. I suppose there are nutters in every fan base.

 

[mitchmouse]

Did I see someone here blame results on fans' pessimism in the caf?

Liverpool conceded 3 goals to a newly promoted team.

Are they melting down and wanting Klopp out ?

take a look at the table - and then take a look how many goals City have conceded. then tell me we are going to challenge. Oh and I don't really care about Liverpool - I care about how poor we can be and the lack of tactics and nous from thebench

 

[Judas]

Liverpool conceded 3 goals to a newly promoted team.

Are they melting down and wanting Klopp out ?

To be fair some of the idiots probably are? But the majority won't be because he's brought them the best years the club has seen in decades, so why would they. What a weird funny little post. So bizarre.

 

[Stig]

Can’t argue with anything here, well written

I think that is a fair summary.

 

[mitchmouse]

None of us likes it when we lose (I hope) but most of your post explains why I am not worried. Shaw and Maguire didn’t become bad players over night. The others are good players getting used to playing together.

You are right, it is very much early days.

But also, I think your spin on our results is a tad negative. Young Boys are not as weak as you say - they probably won’t get through the group but they have some quality, were at home and we had ten men. League cup was disappointing but 11 changes were made and these things happen. Villa yesterday was poor but they were an in form side and it was never going to be a gimme.

We need to improve, a lot, but it’s highly likely we will.

have you seen how man "buts" you've put. sorry "but" equals excuse

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

If I was a United player looking at the team sheet and realized that villa are coming to Old Trafford and lining up in a 4-4-2 with two out and out strikers, I’d feel insulted before even stepping onto the pitch. If they proceeded to play on the front foot like they did, while pressing us in our own box, I’d be damned if the game ended by anything less than a four goal margin of victory.

This is the third god awful loss in a span of two weeks. Something needs to change fast.

 

[gerdm07]

While watching the Chelsea v MC match I was struck with how many times Mendy and Ederson (especially Mendy) came off their line to catch or punch corners and crosses. I wish DDG was as commanding in the box. This will cost us a number of goals from corners and crosses over the season.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

The reason those arguments don't stick is you could see what Pep and Klopp were implementing so soon after joining. Could see the early signs of their football. You could place your faith in the fact that with better players they could win silverware.

Under Ole, the only improvements to our football are purely personnel related. I wouldn't say we play any better football than when he joined, we just have even more players on the field that can win games on their own. That isn't sustainable when our competition has squads just as good but are made more than the sum of their parts.

All teams have bad performances, it happens, but these games aren't an isolated incident with us. Even in games where we win, we far too often look the lesser side. It's why myself and others have constantly suggested it wasn't sustainable, but were laughed at because we were stumbling our way to some wins.

The same thing has happened every season he's been here. Simply put, with how stacked this squad is, we have enough in us to probably make top 4, manager or no manager. Thats just how much better our squad is than the majority of teams in the league. That being said, he is unfortunately nowhere near good enough to overcome Pep, Klopp or Tuchel when you see managers are clubs with far lesser resources getting more out of their players. He doesn't breed confidence, our performances don't breed confidence and the season after season pattern of our results eventually catching up with our performances doesn't breed confidence.

That's purely the coaching issues too. Not even getting started on his cowardly insistence on playing with two defensive midfielders against far lesser teams, the fact that he too often seems reluctant/unable to make changes to influence games etc.

He is an okay manager who has done a very good job up until this point because rightly or wrongly, the expectation wasn't to win the league or the CL. Now it is, which is where he is falling severely short imo

Great post.

I've generally got middle of the road views on most things, and have similar with Ole. Your post sume up perfectly why he was a good appointment when our main priority was getting the club back on track rather than expecting to challenge for the League / CL; And why there's big doubts over his level of managerial ability when it comes to managing a PL / CL champion level squad to trophies ahead of elite, more proven managers.

 

[NICanRed]

I have read most of this thread but had to quit as my mood wasn’t improving!!
I’m not sure if anyone has commented on our performance in the first 20 minutes. Recently we have often been over-run in the first quarter of the game leaving us having to play catch-up. Yesterday we started well looked pretty good but then we allowed them to get going. I wonder if the mind-set was that “We’ve survived the first part of the game now we will relax and just go on and win it.”
Obviously it just doesn’t work like that!

 

[Judas]

While watching the Chelsea v MC match I was struck with how many times Mendy and Ederson (especially Mendy) came off their line to catch or punch corners and crosses. I wish DDG was as commanding in the box. This will cost us a number of goals from corners and crosses over the season.

I stopped wishing for that many many many many years ago. You'll never get that from him, it's not his game. He'll never ever be that type of keeper.

 

[caid]

Only saw the match today so dont know how much the result effected how i viewed the game but thought it was a wretched performance.
Way too many low percentage, hit and hope passes. Too many unnecessary flicks and backheels giving possession away cheaply. Too many misplaced simple passes the few times we strung 2 or 3 passes together. Too many selfish shots from bad angles with players in better positions. I'm well disposed to taking risks and being brave with the ball but the balance was completely off today. It was firmly in wasteful territory.
Leaving an injured Maguire on for 10 mins was dumb also and probably lucky not to get punished for it. An injured maguire isn't better than Lindelof. There's no one in our squad who's going to give you a better performance injured than one of the many replacements can provide fit. If they're not 100% healthy then get them off. Immediately.

 

[GregM40]

If I was a United player looking at the team sheet and realized that villa are coming to Old Trafford and lining up in a 4-4-2 with two out and out strikers, I’d feel insulted before even stepping onto the pitch. If they proceeded to play on the front foot like they did, while pressing us in our own box, I’d be damned if the game ended by anything less than a four goal margin of victory.

I too thought Villa were being very brave playing a 442, but I think too much emphasis is put on formations and tactics when you could see it was pressing and work rate that let them control long periods of the game, regardless of us technically outnumbering their midfield.

Still need someone to dictate pace, Fred isn’t that guy.

 

[OrcaFat]

have you seen how man "buts" you've put. sorry "but" equals excuse

But why?

 

[justsomebloke]

This is so typical of a member of Ole FC that I had to laugh. Your first 'argument' is, as a very 'rational' fan, is to attack me on some cultural negativity tangent or other nonsense like this.

This literally displays the whole problem with people saying OGS is the right man - nothing to do with the football or trophies, all to do with 'happiness of players' and the 'right culture' and being a 'nice man'. None of those are what we need at the cutting edge of football - vision for the style of play, ruthlessness to implement it, confidence to change things and make the right decision when it's time.

As for who would be better, Zidane and Conte on a very short-term basis (I am against him but he'd do well with this squad). Even someone like Brighton's manager would do alright based on what he's doning with a much inferior squad on a short-term contract. At the end of the day, as a United fan, it's not my job to appoint or scout managers but watch and enjoy the football and say when we're not up to it. And currently, it's obvious we are not.

For someone complaining about having his position oversimplified and misrepresented, you're doing an awful lot of it yourself.

The case for Ole isn't what you write. Having a well-handled, united squad with the right mentality and bringing some shape, structure and long term vision to the organisation is a part of it, and is with every justification considered important. "Being a nice man" is just silly, no one thinks this is a reason he should be Manager of Manchester United, and you should know better than to think other people reason that way.

The case for Ole is mainly this:

1. Becoming a top club again. We were in the dumps when he took over. Now the issue, for the first time in nearly decade, is if we're going to be title contenders or not. Huge change. For a lot of people the main point is where we're heading, not where we've been or where we are. If you assume we're not going to go any further (as you and many others on this thread seem to do), then that's one thing, but a lot of people do not assume that. And like it or not, the trajectory of development so far supports their view, even if you think that what you consider to be the shortcomings of the team, tactics etc supports your view. The truth is none of us know. Maybe we're just going through a phase where we're adapting to several new players and then it clicks and rolls on through the season, or maybe we've genuinely hit the ceiling and OGS can't take us further. But so far, the results are simply too good to warrant a change of manager.

Some will point to a lack of trophies as so on. Frankly I think that mainly reflects that people are unrealistic and have the wrong priorities, and also it's an absurd misrepresentation to talk as if those supporting Ole think top 4 is good enough and don't care about titles, and as if you necesssqarily had to have the same expectations for the club every season. Trophies yes, but the right ones please - and I accept that getting there is a process. Not accepting that isn't having higher standards, it looks a lot more to me like not being prepared to face up to the realities of the challenge, and how much work this club has to do to re-establish itself again as a top team. Seeing that job done properly is much more important than a minor trophy immediate endorphin hit, and I frankly don't think we've earned the right to consider any season without a trophy as a failure, and people are wrong to talk as if we have. But we have to get back to that place, and that's what it's all about. And we are heading back to that place, it looks. Much more clearly so than at any previous point post SAF.

2. Stability. The disruptive cost of a managerial change, especially for a club that's on their fourth manager in 8 seasons with each of them playing a different kind of football, is a very real argument against a managerial change. Given the position United is in, this is something that should not be done unless there's a significantly clearer case for it than there is now,.

 

[OrcaFat]

For someone complaining about having his position oversimplified and misrepresented, you're doing an awful lot of it yourself.

The case for Ole isn't what you write. Having a well-handled, united squad with the right mentality and bringing some shape, structure and long term vision to the organisation is a part of it, and is with every justification considered important. "Being a nice man" is just silly, no one thinks this is a reason he should be Manager of Manchester United, and you should know better than to think other people reason that way.

The case for Ole is mainly this:

1. Becoming a top club again. We were in the dumps when he took over. Now the issue, for the first time in nearly decade, is if we're going to be title contenders or not. Huge change. For a lot of people the main point is where we're heading, not where we've been or where we are. If you assume we're not going to go any further (as you and many others on this thread seem to do), then that's one thing, but a lot of people do not assume that. And like it or not, the trajectory of development so far supports their view, even if you think that what you consider to be the shortcomings of the team, tactics etc supports your view. The truth is none of us know. Maybe we're just going through a phase where we're adapting to several new players and then it clicks and rolls on through the season, or maybe we've genuinely hit the ceiling and OGS can't take us further. But so far, the results are simply too good to warrant a change of manager.

Some will point to a lack of trophies as so on. Frankly I think that mainly reflects that people are unrealistic and have the wrong priorities, and also it's an absurd misrepresentation to talk as if those supporting Ole think top 4 is good enough and don't care about titles, and as if you necesssqarily had to have the same expectations for the club every season. Trophies yes, but the right ones please - and I accept that getting there is a process. Not accepting that isn't having higher standards, it looks a lot more to me like not being prepared to face up to the realities of the challenge, and how much work this club has to do to re-establish itself again as a top team. Seeing that job done properly is much more important than a minor trophy immediate endorphin hit, and I frankly don't think we've earned the right to consider any season without a trophy as a failure, and people are wrong to talk as if we have. But we have to get back to that place, and that's what it's all about. And we are heading back to that place, it looks. Much more clearly so than at any previous point post SAF.

2. Stability. The disruptive cost of a managerial change, especially for a club that's on their fourth manager in 8 seasons with each of them playing a different kind of football, is a very real argument against a managerial change. Given the position United is in, this is something that should not be done unless there's a significantly clearer case for it than there is now,.

You save me a lot of effort by posting your sentiments. I share them completely.

 

[Mart1974]

For someone complaining about having his position oversimplified and misrepresented, you're doing an awful lot of it yourself.

The case for Ole isn't what you write. Having a well-handled, united squad with the right mentality and bringing some shape, structure and long term vision to the organisation is a part of it, and is with every justification considered important. "Being a nice man" is just silly, no one thinks this is a reason he should be Manager of Manchester United, and you should know better than to think other people reason that way.

The case for Ole is mainly this:

1. Becoming a top club again. We were in the dumps when he took over. Now the issue, for the first time in nearly decade, is if we're going to be title contenders or not. Huge change. For a lot of people the main point is where we're heading, not where we've been or where we are. If you assume we're not going to go any further (as you and many others on this thread seem to do), then that's one thing, but a lot of people do not assume that. And like it or not, the trajectory of development so far supports their view, even if you think that what you consider to be the shortcomings of the team, tactics etc supports your view. The truth is none of us know. Maybe we're just going through a phase where we're adapting to several new players and then it clicks and rolls on through the season, or maybe we've genuinely hit the ceiling and OGS can't take us further. But so far, the results are simply too good to warrant a change of manager.

Some will point to a lack of trophies as so on. Frankly I think that mainly reflects that people are unrealistic and have the wrong priorities, and also it's an absurd misrepresentation to talk as if those supporting Ole think top 4 is good enough and don't care about titles, and as if you necesssqarily had to have the same expectations for the club every season. Trophies yes, but the right ones please - and I accept that getting there is a process. Not accepting that isn't having higher standards, it looks a lot more to me like not being prepared to face up to the realities of the challenge, and how much work this club has to do to re-establish itself again as a top team. Seeing that job done properly is much more important than a minor trophy immediate endorphin hit, and I frankly don't think we've earned the right to consider any season without a trophy as a failure, and people are wrong to talk as if we have. But we have to get back to that place, and that's what it's all about. And we are heading back to that place, it looks. Much more clearly so than at any previous point post SAF.

2. Stability. The disruptive cost of a managerial change, especially for a club that's on their fourth manager in 8 seasons with each of them playing a different kind of football, is a very real argument against a managerial change. Given the position United is in, this is something that should not be done unless there's a significantly clearer case for it than there is now,.

Great post, sums up my view perfectly

 

[Maticmaker]

While watching the Chelsea v MC match I was struck with how many times Mendy and Ederson (especially Mendy) came off their line to catch or punch corners and crosses. I wish DDG was as commanding in the box. This will cost us a number of goals from corners and crosses over the season.

Its been DeGea's weak spot for years, and it costs us most in the time it takes new CB's to realise he doesn't come. It get worse when Henderson plays instead because he will come and he often finds himself having to climb over his own two CB's to get the ball.

I have scratched my head many times wondering just what the goalkeeping coaches do at OT!

 

[georgieboiii]

The official Twitter page is still banging on about Bruno's penalty miss, and our teammates sending heart emojis to him to his instagram post. Is it just me or is it extremely embarrassing? Just shut up, get on with it and focus on the next match. After every loss we turn intro "We'll bounce back United".

We want to see the "bounce back" on the pitch, not in stupid instagram posts written by your PR team.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We've played four of the bottom six. That's about as good as it gets.

They weren't in those positions when we faced them to be fair. So I think that is a very wrong way of looking at it. At the start of the season were they finished the previous year counts way more.

The problem is that our one outstanding performance was in our first game. We didn't start slow and get better, we started with a bang and have since gotten worse. Now we're on a run of 3 losses in 4.

Yes we are. I'm unbothered because firstly its not in the same competition. Then secondly, its not like we have had 4 straight crap performances. We lost to Young boy. Were far superior to West Ham thought the V.A.R. refs tried their best to rob us of the game. Were unlucky to lose to a west ham side we battered in the cup, when we were yet again denied a stone wall penalty. Then we were poor vs aston villa.

I can't convince you that yesterday's performance was poor, but our current form is the reason why I'm doubtful of our ability to string together a long winning run against good teams.

The villa was indeed poor, no one needs to be convinced about it. But I believe this team can and will bounce back Because we have done it each of the past 2 seasons without being a s equipped personal wise as we are now.
What makes me even more optimistic is the f act that as poor as we were vs Villa. We only lost all 3 points because we couldn't hit the target from 12 yards. Past 2 seasons after a game like that we'd have already been very dead and buried

dropping 5 points in 6 games against that opposition already isnt good enough. We need to drop fewer points than that, from more games, against better opposition. That needs an improvement on our form.

on that we agree completely

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Coming so close after the West Ham 0-1 loss this game was very different, but yet ended up the same score?
Against West Ham we had some creativity in mid-field and made a whole host of chances (27 attempts) but no one up top to take advantage. Yesterday we had no creativity from midfield some sparkling talent up front, but failed again. Admittedly the loss of Shaw and later Maguire did make things worse, but our midfield was woeful throughout, in terms of helping to get the ball forward to the likes of Greenwood and CR.
Also although Greenwood was the busiest of our front players he did lamentably fail to take advantage of two world class runs made for him by CR and he did not return the ball when he should. OK, Mason is still learning and he is most definitely capable of scoring, but when he's not scoring and he's not contributing with his assists, then his presence can be counterproductive. Mason needs help to mature quicker in his thinking, we cannot wait forever for him to start making some 'right decisions' when he is in such positions.

My MOTM was Varane, he showed his composure and CB skills throughout and his heading ability is fantastic, he rises from the ground almost 'salmon-like' his body straight and powerful and the power he gets from his shoulder and neck muscles into his heading of the ball is great. With all due respect to Maguire I would like to see Varane more of a target in the opposition box for our corners.

A bit worried that Ole seemed to wait for the crowd to tell him to put Edison Cavani on... will it be tossing a coin next!!!

You shouldn't be. It was the most obvious substitution to look for a goal. It would have worked too if it wasn't for that pesky penalty miss....

 

[mancan92]

We’ve played six games and lost one. We’re 1 point off the leaders and in a group of 4 other teams on 13pts.
There’s no doubt that signing Ronaldo has changed the way we play, and it’s going to take some adapting especially if Cavani is going to get regular games. Varane and Sancho are settling in to the PL too. We’ve got Marcus to come back in too, which I am excited to see. I still see more reasons to be positive than negative and there is every reason to believe we will put a run together and take points of our title rivals.

Ronaldo hasn't changed the way we play. There is absolutely no difference

 

[mancan92]

Liverpool conceded 3 goals to a newly promoted team.

Are they melting down and wanting Klopp out ?

Why would they? They have got to the champions league final twice, won it once, got over 90 points twice in the league and won it for the first time. Why would they melt down?

 

[Relevated]

I cant fecking wait till we play these guys again and Ronaldo smashed in some bangers past that twat Mertinez

 

[Still ill]

The official Twitter page is still banging on about Bruno's penalty miss, and our teammates sending heart emojis to him to his instagram post. Is it just me or is it extremely embarrassing? Just shut up, get on with it and focus on the next match. After every loss we turn intro "We'll bounce back United".

We want to see the "bounce back" on the pitch, not in stupid instagram posts written by your PR team.

I'm with you Georgie. Twitter's for the good days. Zip it till we're winning.

 

[doomy20]

The official Twitter page is still banging on about Bruno's penalty miss, and our teammates sending heart emojis to him to his instagram post. Is it just me or is it extremely embarrassing? Just shut up, get on with it and focus on the next match. After every loss we turn intro "We'll bounce back United".

We want to see the "bounce back" on the pitch, not in stupid instagram posts written by your PR team.

Thanks for that, so true. I hate this fake online world, driven by PR managers of multi millionaires. We are like six games into the season and already had three times „we have to bounce back“ b*ullsh*t

 

[Maureen-yo]

It's not just one game and knee jerk rubbish, he allowed the cross in at the Young Boys game for their goal, against Newcastle he was out of position again for their goal, even yesterday he couldn't stop the cross but was lucky the ball didn't go in. He offers us something in attack but he can hardly stop a cross from opponents.

It is knee jerk rubbish. He’s been our most consistent player for over two seasons and you call him a liability based on 3 games where he also was the player who created the most goal scoring chances for his teammates. He is a full back that gets forward in a team where we have two DMs, he is going to leave space in behind but that’s where Fred and McT should come in to cover! I know let’s just get another wan bissaka and forego any attacking from our defenders, that’ll work.

 

[Huge-fan]

Yeah and then we keep hearing about the need to start better but feels like there is nothing ever being done to change that

Same story, same thing nothing new, first half a mess, risking an important match which basically out at early stage.