You forgot Enciso.
PL L FA Premier League
Manchester United 1:3 Brighton & Hove Albion
Post-match discussion
Sat, 16 September 2023
Seen a lot of noise around this stat...it's a great stat no doubt but its not that simple.
If you put that team in a United shirt and expect them to finish 4th you would be crazy.
All it really shows is if you are a small club with a small reputation and are smart with your recruitment you can produce a team that can compete in the premier league and finish comfortably in the top 10.
United don't operate under any of the circumstances that Brighton do.
follow your eye along the line of the pitch and you will see that the ball has an impact on the white line.( you need to zoom right in) I’m pretty sure your confusing the blare of the ball with the grass. I’m talking millimetres that it’s still in
https://metro.co.uk/2023/09/16/rasm...akes-tight-marcus-rashford-call-19510073/amp/
Guess someone already wrote this.. why is the angle not totally aligned with the line? Look at the goalpost. It is scewed. how is this possible?
But you can quite confidently say Brighton are a better team than United at the minute, and will be favorites going into any game against us at a neutral ground (let alone at home). They have more quality in their overall squad than we do, by a considerable margin. And then achieving that on a small budget while not having the lure of being a big club is a huge feat.
What it shows is that it's possible to get a team that work together well, play good football and can get good results if you have good coaching, management and recruitment.
The glazers are a cancer, everybody agrees. However, we always say we need to spend more money on players. that isn't the issue on the pitch. ETH has been backed, he's spent money on the players he wants and the football is absolutely dreadful.
It wasn't a shock that Brighton beat us. Anybody that watches football, thought they were the favourites on Saturday.
100% agree they are doing a great job.
The point I was kinda making is bigger clubs can't really copy their approach sadly...but United could learn a thing or 2 from studying Brighton for sure.
We dont, but it shows there is value out there and good scouting can identify gems. Our scouting seems to be poor and we have a manager who seems to have been given almost full control of signings. THere are things we can do better, to pretend we cant is not true. Its not easy to do what Brighton and Brentford do but the fact they both do it consistently shows its not luck
True, no one can argue that.
I feel the huge pressure at United to achieve something today! totally neglects long term planning and the club just throws money at the problem as the quickest fix.
Since Glazers arrived there has never been any long term planning...
Also true. But then I can't think of too many signings (outside of loans) that the fans didn't agree with. The only player I can really think the fans didn't want is Mount?
I just can't help but feel that is we had a Pep or a Klopp they would have made it work. Or you would at least see what they were trying to do. I've absolutely no idea what ETH is trying to implement. The only thing I know he wants is a big man upfront who can hold the ball up and lay others in to play. He'd have absolutely loved Kevin Davies (Not even joking).
Sure, it's one of the great things about football. Leicester won the league less than a decade ago.
Quality of the squad definitely can be blamed on the glazers and the likes of fletcher/Murtough but the football and how we play is all Erik. And so far its been dreadful as you say.
Hmmm not sure I agree with that. City are probably the best run club in the world, Pep deserves credit but the environment he works in is a million miles from the shit show that happens behind the scenes at United. Also Pep bins players off as soon as he sees a drop in training. The manager at United has had to work with Martial (made of glass) and an on loan Weghorst to get results.
Edit - but I can see your point more so with Klopp, in fact United seem to have the same cycle as Liverpool with one good season followed by one bad...albeit Liverpool's good/bad cycle tends to be 10-15 points better off than United. But you could imagine Klopp liking Rashford/Bruno etc.
That is so true, has always been the case, but got worse with Ed Woodward's bragging and we are still suffering for that.
I think we are the living proof that money don’t buy success.
Brighton seems far more sustainable than Leicester though, though they did look like they knew what they were doing at the time too. The volume of these good moves and the type of acquisitions they make is far more impressive at Brighton though, as they seem to have a very competent scouring network. At Leicester it was more about nailing a few transfers here and there and consistently keeping their best players at the club while transferring 1-2 away only. Brighton sell loads, buy loads and get continuously better.
I agree they're better run in that respect, but I think it can also derail with surprising ease once a couple of mistakes are made. I'm mainly just relieved Rodgers had already failed at Liverpool, otherwise we'd have definitely hired him at some point and the thought makes me ill.
Normally write my post match contribution within 24 hours of a match, but after Saturdays display, I would have been unable to keep the tears from eyes, until now!
Brighton were much better than us in every department, it would have been total injustice if we had got anything out of that game.
Marcus made the best two chances we had, but he also wasted them, one by trying to beat one man to many before crossing (run the ball out) and not crossing on the second one.
Danny Welbeck showed him how it should be done, arriving just that bit late in the box, with a space he fashioned for himself and positioned right between the posts so he had the full goal width to aim for.... are you watching Marcus?
Back to the drawing board for ETH, in my mind he gets a 'bye' on taking the blame for this, simply because of the injury situation, and with players who have other problems, unavailable.
We might be marginally better at playing out from the back now, but we are still taken-in 'hook line and sinker' in trying to press the opposition when they play out.
In the first half Brighton played out from the back the same way, for 10 times on the trot, go wide on the left, pass in 'triangles' until our players get sucked in then lift the ball straight over to right side and off goes their two wide men full back and winger attacking our newest recruit... not really a master plan but we didn't start to comprehend until nearly halftime.
Brighton were much better than us in every department, it would have been total injustice if we had got anything out of that game.
Marcus made the best two chances we had, but he also wasted them, one by trying to beat one man to many before crossing (run the ball out) and not crossing on the second one.
Danny Welbeck showed him how it should be done, arriving just that bit late in the box, with a space he fashioned for himself and positioned right between the posts so he had the full goal width to aim for.... are you watching Marcus?
Back to the drawing board for ETH, in my mind he gets a 'bye' on taking the blame for this, simply because of the injury situation, and with players who have other problems, unavailable.
We might be marginally better at playing out from the back now, but we are still taken-in 'hook line and sinker' in trying to press the opposition when they play out.
In the first half Brighton played out from the back the same way, for 10 times on the trot, go wide on the left, pass in 'triangles' until our players get sucked in then lift the ball straight over to right side and off goes their two wide men full back and winger attacking our newest recruit... not really a master plan but we didn't start to comprehend until nearly halftime.
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I understand why someone may think this but it’s actually not the case. ETH wanted Kane, Rice, KMJ and Onana in the summer. We got one of those and settled for second/third options instead in the other positions due to funds and ffp.
This is a central problem for a manager, of being in a position to recruit the players you want.
Money is of course an issue, but both Kane and Rice wanted to start winning things before their careers are finished, sure United could have put the same money on the table, but can you really expect such as Kane and Rice to come to our club, as great as its history is, at this time?
We can, perhaps, continue to recruit WC players whose career 'ending' is now closer than their beginning, and we can get maybe a couple of good seasons out of such as Casemiro, Varane, Erikson, but unless there is some genuine cohesion in the ownership/management of the club, as a football club and not just a business, then we are in for a long wait.
Being totally pessimistic, (as I'm afraid I seem to be coming) ETH and another half a dozen managers could come and go in the 'cauldron' that is now United, before it gets sorted. Even getting rid of the Glaziers on its own would not be the answer, it could become the catalyst, but on its own it is not just the answer.
I hope ETH keeps his nerve and everyone else rallies behind him, we are running out of 'escape hatches'.
Lord knows why anyone thinks this was a shock. They’re a better team than us and we’ve had our tummies tickled by them four times on the spin.
We are not good.
We are not good.
I'm sure every manager in the league would have liked those players too. The fact is Ten Hag will have been fully aware of what was available to spend before the summer. So the idea that he targeted players we would never been able to afford but just didn't get given them is ridiculous.
Strangely (considering the money we have spent) they are better than us both individually and collectively. We're mid table at this point. Onana has a nice foot but his shot stopping seems fairly average. Mount? Average. Our fullbacks are good but nothing special. Varane and Martinez are good but Varane is injured too often. Rashford is good, i still rate him highly. Right wingers are all fairly unproductive but lets see what Pallestri can do. And Hojlund? Who knows.
Our management structure is a mess. We buy high, sell low. We have awful shit going on with multiple players. Loads of our players are injured.
Our first XI would have given Brighton a game.
Bad result. Not surprising though.
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Other than paragraph 2, which seems to be a reply to someone other than me (since I never made the argument that the CB’s should be blamed for the goals rather than the midfield), I disagree with everything else you said.
Yes, Hojlund projects better over the long haul, but he is also already our best CF by a good margin. And despite it not counting, he did score a goal and was in great position to score multiple others due to fantastic runs and effort in the box. Nobody knew the ball was out of bounds prior to Rashford’s cross until VAR. He was active and will score goals for us this year. If you see it differently, great. No problem agreeing to disagree.
And yes, Reguilon was man of the match for me. He was much more dangerous on the LW than Dalot on the RW. That is obviously my view and the view of a good percentage of this board since Dalot averaged a full point less than Reguilon in player ratings while Reguilon was second to Hannibal on man of the match votes. Again, I’m not bothered if you disagree.
Bizarre statement. As far im aware, Brighton didnt win anything and finished below united.
Its easy to pull odd result when youre at a club like brighton. Theyve been succeeded with their business model, good for them but if they hadn't, no one would bat an eye.
You cant do that at big clubs.
During the Ole years Shaw was the laziest of them all, and AWB can't read the flight of a ball for a header, for me they're average. Shaw can be good if he wants but that's not enough for me to rated him higher.
It’s not that bizarre when you think of how much more we’ve spend over them but still got totally outplayed and beaten by them.
Net spending over past 5 seasons:
Man Utd -700m net spend from players transfer
Brighton +92m net income from players transfer
Man Utd vs Brighton head to head over past 5 games:
Man Utd 1 - Brighton 3
Brighton 1 - Man Utd 0
Brighton 0 - Man Utd 0
Man Utd 1 - Brighton 2
Brighton 4 - Man Utd 0
The net spend by United is quite impressive, but the problem -- as everyone here knows -- is that we've spent huge sums on players who only made sense for an immediate fix but not over a 3-5 season range. Pogba and Ronaldo are prime examples, but they are not alone as examples of daft buys. Sanchez and Lukaku are leading contenders as well. Contract extensions for Martial and Jones should not be ignored either as towering monuments to club management ineptitude. A Harvard Business School course could use the Manchester United circa 2013-2023 case study on how not to run a professional football club. Or perhaps better put, how to run a dominant football club into the ground.
What's strange about this summer transfer window is that with the exception of Hojlund our buys made almost no strategic sense. Mount is at best cover for Bruno and only makes sense now if we're moving Bruno on next season. Onana is just not an upgrade on De Gea as a shot stopper and his vaunted ball playing ability is not going to transform our attack. There is no doubt whatsoever that we needed a striker (we actually needed two strikers) so there can be no complaints with Hojlund, but to be fair to Hojlund he needs at least six months he can even think of imposing his will on opposing defenders. There was no obvious strategic thinking to the Mount buy so that's 60m out the window, Onana is a wash at best over De Gea so that's another 40m out the window, and 60m for Hojlund is about right. We would have done well to buy Amrabat with some portion of the funds we blew on Mount and Onana and spent what we needed to spend on KMJ -- instead of bringing back Jonny Evans -- as our CB situation is a bit worrisome.
What's strange about this summer transfer window is that with the exception of Hojlund our buys made almost no strategic sense. Mount is at best cover for Bruno and only makes sense now if we're moving Bruno on next season. Onana is just not an upgrade on De Gea as a shot stopper and his vaunted ball playing ability is not going to transform our attack. There is no doubt whatsoever that we needed a striker (we actually needed two strikers) so there can be no complaints with Hojlund, but to be fair to Hojlund he needs at least six months he can even think of imposing his will on opposing defenders. There was no obvious strategic thinking to the Mount buy so that's 60m out the window, Onana is a wash at best over De Gea so that's another 40m out the window, and 60m for Hojlund is about right. We would have done well to buy Amrabat with some portion of the funds we blew on Mount and Onana and spent what we needed to spend on KMJ -- instead of bringing back Jonny Evans -- as our CB situation is a bit worrisome.
And ole's team scored crapload of goals against brighton.
Where were these netspend chart when that happened eh?
Like i said, it's easy to do experiment when you have no pressure and expectation, no one gives a crap when you fail. Try to pull Brighton's business model on big clubs and see how far it will go.
I swear some of you lot became fans in 2013 and have the memory of a goldfish. We always had bogey teams that took points of us, even under SAF.
I remember back in the day there was a certain team that also started with a B that handed us quiete a few losses and was a pain to play against: Blackburn Rovers. Mortem Gamst Pedersen(kudos if you remember the name) would turn into prime David Beckham when playing against us. And fecking Brad Friedel would channel his inner Buffon every time he faced off against us.
Or what about Portsmouth? A team assembled from Arsenal and Liverpool rejects that almost ended our title hopes back in 2006/07 and ended our treble run back in 2007/08. Or Boro, etc etc
The point is no matter how good you are you will always have your bogey teams. Right now it's Brighton and fair play to them, they do play some outstanding football. From what that Brighton fan was telling us in a different thread: it's all down to their CEO and owner.
But let's not get carried away: you take all of their players and put them in our shirts and most of them would turn to flops. United is just a different animal. The pressure to preform is always there. And most players don't have the mental fortitude to cope with it. Just look at Ben Foster and him turning down the the potential No.1 spot because the pressure was too high.
Now there is this whole: they built their team on a shoestring budget. True, but so did Moyes before he became our manager and you can see how that turned out. And speaking of Moyes, he literally took them to the cleaners 2 matchdays ago when he beat them comfortably with only 25% posession.
Point is simple: Brighton is a midtable club that benefits from the lack of pressure and actually benefits from their underdog status right now. Also noted by that Brighton fella whom I mentioned previously. He is ecstatic to be in Europa League.
Let's see how they're going to cope once both the media and the fans will consistently expect them to finish top half of the table
I remember back in the day there was a certain team that also started with a B that handed us quiete a few losses and was a pain to play against: Blackburn Rovers. Mortem Gamst Pedersen(kudos if you remember the name) would turn into prime David Beckham when playing against us. And fecking Brad Friedel would channel his inner Buffon every time he faced off against us.
Or what about Portsmouth? A team assembled from Arsenal and Liverpool rejects that almost ended our title hopes back in 2006/07 and ended our treble run back in 2007/08. Or Boro, etc etc
The point is no matter how good you are you will always have your bogey teams. Right now it's Brighton and fair play to them, they do play some outstanding football. From what that Brighton fan was telling us in a different thread: it's all down to their CEO and owner.
But let's not get carried away: you take all of their players and put them in our shirts and most of them would turn to flops. United is just a different animal. The pressure to preform is always there. And most players don't have the mental fortitude to cope with it. Just look at Ben Foster and him turning down the the potential No.1 spot because the pressure was too high.
Now there is this whole: they built their team on a shoestring budget. True, but so did Moyes before he became our manager and you can see how that turned out. And speaking of Moyes, he literally took them to the cleaners 2 matchdays ago when he beat them comfortably with only 25% posession.
Point is simple: Brighton is a midtable club that benefits from the lack of pressure and actually benefits from their underdog status right now. Also noted by that Brighton fella whom I mentioned previously. He is ecstatic to be in Europa League.
Let's see how they're going to cope once both the media and the fans will consistently expect them to finish top half of the table
I remember like a two-year period of only watching MGP play against us and being convinced we should sign him. Took a game watching him against literally anybody else to scrap that notion
Para 2, well, you did write that Lindelof wasn't up to the task, and that Martinez did not have a good game. If you think they were blameless on all three goals and that assessment had to with entirely other things, then yes my point was misdirected. In that case, I'm unsure what your point was really about.
Hojlund, what you write isn't very different from what I think. I'm just pointing out that for all the positives, he didn't actually accomplish much. An annulled goal doesn't change that. Like you I'm optimistic this will change, but there's a difference between doing promising things and actually having an impact on the outcome of a game.
Reguilon, whatever. We had two goals against that came out of a gaping hole on his flank as he was caught upfield, but happy to agree to disagree.
Greatest dive of all time away at Arsenal. A real beauty. And yes you're right, we've always had bogey teams. Got sick of watching us against Chelsea at OT in the 80's! Everton similar, especially at Goodison, absolute graveyard for us. Shame though that half the Premier League now appear to be our bogey teams these days
Not starting anything but if only the quartet of duelling players had spent more of their sweet time showing the passion on the pitch they might not be brawling in front of wee man ten Hag.
What a team Brighton are at the moment, though, I had them down as favourites but our performance was next level shameless.
What a team Brighton are at the moment, though, I had them down as favourites but our performance was next level shameless.
Cool. Good talk
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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27%
Sergio Reguilon
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11%
Rasmus Hojlund
-
6%
Marcus Rashford
-
5%
Diogo Dalot
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1%
Bruno Fernandes
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1%
Andre Onana
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1%
Christian Eriksen
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1%
Lisandro Martinez
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 245 ratings.
Score Predictions
158,77,33
- Man Utd win
- Brighton win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 28% Man Utd 2:1 Brighton
- 10% Man Utd 3:1 Brighton
- 10% Man Utd 2:0 Brighton
- 10% Man Utd 1:2 Brighton
- 8% Man Utd 1:3 Brighton
- 6% Man Utd 2:2 Brighton
- 6% Man Utd 1:0 Brighton
- 6% Man Utd 1:1 Brighton
- 3% Man Utd 0:2 Brighton
- 3% Man Utd 3:0 Brighton
- 2% Man Utd 0:3 Brighton
- 2% Man Utd 2:3 Brighton
- 2% Man Utd 3:2 Brighton
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Brighton
- 1% Man Utd 0:9 Brighton
- 1% Man Utd 0:4 Brighton
- 0% Man Utd 4:0 Brighton
- 0% Man Utd 0:0 Brighton
- 0% Man Utd 4:1 Brighton
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Brighton
- 0% Man Utd 1:4 Brighton
- 0% Man Utd 0:5 Brighton
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Brighton
- Possession
- 43% 57%
- Shots
- 14 10
- Shots on Target
- 4 8
- Corners
- 8 1
- Fouls
- 8 9
Referee
Jarred Gillett
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Aaron Wan-Bissaka
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replaced by Alejandro Garnacho
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-
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replaced by Hannibal Mejbri
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replaced by Facundo Pellistri
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replaced by Anthony Martial
