[sparx99]

Even Arsenal would mot embarrass themselves by talking about positives and progress like many on here have since Fridays defeat , there is almost a celebratory tone off some because we gave Middlesborough a good game and were unlucky to lose. It is Manchester Utd not kidderminster Harriers.

I know what you’re saying but I think there is a certain pragmatism in acknowledging that there are signs of progress even if the actual result was shocking.

It’s not necessarily an acceptance of lower standards; more that there have been games this season where we genuinely didn’t look like a football team. So the journey back to competence includes these baby steps.

We all want to be a top 5 side in Europe, title challengers etc but this team has been so low, so disjointed, dressing room divided etc that we are trying to find positives where we can. If I can’t see positives then I’m not watching tomorrow night. I’m trying to maintain my support of the team by looking for the progress to give me hope. Because we really have been hopeless this season.

 

[DSG]

We were going behind in games every week for a while under Ole. Neville kept talking about how it wasn’t sustainable to keep coming back etc. So much gets forgotten because of the results.

This is where the nuance comes in. The away fixture unbeaten record was under Ole’s watch. We can’t / shouldn’t discount everything that team did.

 

[Kumar Abhishek]

I know what you’re saying but I think there is a certain pragmatism in acknowledging that there are signs of progress even if the actual result was shocking.

It’s not necessarily an acceptance of lower standards; more that there have been games this season where we genuinely didn’t look like a football team. So the journey back to competence includes these baby steps.

We all want to be a top 5 side in Europe, title challengers etc but this team has been so low, so disjointed, dressing room divided etc that we are trying to find positives where we can. If I can’t see positives then I’m not watching tomorrow night. I’m trying to maintain my support of the team by looking for the progress to give me hope. Because we really have been hopeless this season.

This is quite a measured post so thank you for saying this. This whole talk of 'standards' just grinds my gears.

You know what's the easiest thing in the world? To demand higher standards. Just about scraped through into the Top 4? Pfft, not up to my standards. Won the FA Cup? Not up to my standards, how the mighty have fallen celebrating a minor trophy. Just about beat a rival to a league title with 80 points? You guessed it, not up to my standards since my standards are a minimum of 100 points.

The implication here is that if every fan in the fanbase increased our standards to the same level, the club will be willed onto a higher plane of performance that will match the said standard. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that that is complete bollocks. Mostly it's not about standards at all. It's about denying everyone else any kind of joy because one can't find joy in small improvements. It's absolutely exhausting.

So yes I am a common peasant who's okay with seeing minor improvements as long as they keep happening constantly. Because without any optimism, football fandom makes no sense especially when things aren't going well. So yes you can blame me for lowering the standards of this club. Guilty as charged. I cannot compete with your high standards.

 

[RedCurry]

The dull superiority-inferiority complex where we constantly compare ourselves to shite versions of Arsenal and Liverpool is the real problem with fans. We are all bummed out about the result. But it’s done. We created a feckton of chances in the game and you can choose to ignore that but it doesn’t change it, nor does it magically turn Man Utd to Arsenal if you god forbid acknowledged that our quality on and off the ball has improved overall.

 

[elmo]

This is where the nuance comes in. The away fixture unbeaten record was under Ole’s watch. We can’t / shouldn’t discount everything that team did.

That run happened when there wasn't fans in the grounds. It's far easier to play away games when there's no crowd around. It's why we have never come close to replicating that run despite supposedly improving on the team.

 

[Telsim]

I know what you’re saying but I think there is a certain pragmatism in acknowledging that there are signs of progress even if the actual result was shocking.

It’s not necessarily an acceptance of lower standards; more that there have been games this season where we genuinely didn’t look like a football team. So the journey back to competence includes these baby steps.

We all want to be a top 5 side in Europe, title challengers etc but this team has been so low, so disjointed, dressing room divided etc that we are trying to find positives where we can. If I can’t see positives then I’m not watching tomorrow night. I’m trying to maintain my support of the team by looking for the progress to give me hope. Because we really have been hopeless this season.

Do you seriously believe playing well against a Championship side is a sign of progress? Not to mention still losing in the end? I thought we are competing for 4th place, now we are patting each other on the back for playing well against Middlesborough, after losing to them? Just no, sorry. This is accepting lowered standards in my eyes.

With the players we have I'm expecting a good performance against a lower division team. There is a reason Middlesborough are playing in the Championship and not the PL. They gave our players loads of space to pass the ball and made many mistakes.

Let's see our players do this against Brighton on the 15th. A proper top half side. Then I will call it progress, even if we don't win.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I know what you’re saying but I think there is a certain pragmatism in acknowledging that there are signs of progress even if the actual result was shocking.

It’s not necessarily an acceptance of lower standards; more that there have been games this season where we genuinely didn’t look like a football team. So the journey back to competence includes these baby steps.

We all want to be a top 5 side in Europe, title challengers etc but this team has been so low, so disjointed, dressing room divided etc that we are trying to find positives where we can. If I can’t see positives then I’m not watching tomorrow night. I’m trying to maintain my support of the team by looking for the progress to give me hope. Because we really have been hopeless this season.

Can't help but think of Ferguson and the time he gave his players at Aberdeen a bollocking for not meeting the standards he set, despite them just winning a trophy.

We've allowed our standards to drop so low we now praise the players for managing to string a few passes together and create some chances against a championship team, despite still losing to them.

I get it, when things are bleak its easy to cling on to any small positive as it's better than wallowing in misery for an eternity. But given that we have players in our team that earn more in a week than the entire Middlesbrough team, I find it difficult to praise them for ultimately losing. At the end of the day scoring goals is the most important part of football, and we were absolutely shit at that.

 

[Judas]

If we’d been winning more often recently we’d probably be just calling it one of those nights, but because we’re a bit rubbish now we’ve got quite used to losing and awful results. The game should have been won, and you’d hope the next time we create that many chances, we take more than one of them.

 

[matt10000]

Under no circumstances should that goal have been allowed to stand. I know the way the rule is written, but the spirit of that was to reduce the VAR time to review things that happen 30 seconds before the goal.

‘Clearly, the ball hit his hand, he gained an advantage, passed to another player for a goal all within 3 seconds.Everyone could see it and BEFORE VAR, it would have been chalked off.

literally every former player and pundit thought it was a poor call and should have been chalked off.

I agree with you, I hate ambiguous rules like this. However, if giu follow the crap rule to the letter, the rule allows the ref to decide either way and no one can prove him/her right or wrong. It allows refs to find a reason to give the goal to the ‘giant killer’ to make things interesting. If that goal had been at the orher end of the pitch, the ref would have said deliberate and not allowed it and no one would have batted an eyelid.

 

[matt10000]

Can't help but think of Ferguson and the time he gave his players at Aberdeen a bollocking for not meeting the standards he set, despite them just winning a trophy.

We've allowed our standards to drop so low we now praise the players for managing to string a few passes together and create some chances against a championship team, despite still losing to them.

I get it, when things are bleak its easy to cling on to any small positive as it's better than wallowing in misery for an eternity. But given that we have players in our team that earn more in a week than the entire Middlesbrough team, I find it difficult to praise them for ultimately losing. At the end of the day scoring goals is the most important part of football, and we were absolutely shit at that.

It is about managing confidence which saf was the grand master.

This team have ability but as soon as things don’t go their way, which is inevitable in any game for a period, the pressure gets to them, confidence is shattered and they can’t seem to get over it.
When we are good we can be very good, we need to work on those periods of games when we just need to regroup, stay disciplined and hold the line.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

That run happened when there wasn't fans in the grounds. It's far easier to play away games when there's no crowd around. It's why we have never come close to replicating that run despite supposedly improving on the team.

That was a great run, but in no way is it record setting without fans. Really means nothing for history.

 

[gerdm07]

I swear people have a very simplified world view on football. If we win, we’re awesome. If we lose, we’re a shambles. Nuance isn’t allowed in either instance.

It’s as if some people don’t watch the actual match, look at the result, maybe a 3 minute highlight reel and base their opinion from that and don’t look up detailed match stats.

The antithesis of this game is a game that happened quite regularly under Solskjaer where we’d win 2-0. A lot of these matches involved Bruno pulling out some individual magic to score, provide an easy goal with a well worked assist or score a penalty. Throughout the game the opposition is creating chances for fun and we’re looking very wobbly, and we’ve created feck all the entire match. The opposition gain momentum and confidence in thinking they can equalise but maybe because they don’t quite have the quality or they’re tiring, they mess it up and we counter attack with our individual quality and it’s 2-0 in the 5-10 minutes of the game, basically killing the opposition right then and there. The post match thread is then filled with posts akin to ‘We make wins look so hard. How did we not concede. We play so disjointed and this isnt a sustainable way of playing’

And people who didn’t watch the match see the result and think ‘Ah a nice comfortable win for Utd. All is right with the world. Oles at the wheel etc’

I think you should use a little of your nuance when describing the Ole era. Sure there were matches like you described, there were also matches where we played very well and created numerous chances just like the Boro match. And to say most of the wins during the Ole era were only because of individual brilliance is not true and isn't using nuance.

 

[DSG]

That run happened when there wasn't fans in the grounds. It's far easier to play away games when there's no crowd around. It's why we have never come close to replicating that run despite supposedly improving on the team.

Some of the run… I don’t think we’ve had enough away matches to replicate it since then. Sorry, I agree that it is easier, but don’t think it’s easy.