[BarstoolProphet]

That perfomance was a bit Moyes-ish; static and lethargic but a couple of good attacks where one gave us the win. Mind you, had it been Moyes, then Campbell probably would have scored ...

A bit disappointing to see this under LvG but CP are hard to beat and it didn't exactly help with our makeshift defense and midfield. Here's hoping that we finally get a back four together and that Rooney won't be wasted in a midfield four anymore. Was watching Swansea - Arsenal, and that Montero fella played exactly how I expect Adnan to play. Direct with bags of tricks, where we can forgive the occasionally poor judgment. Shame it isn't working for him this season.

Oh, and PLEASE stop playing AdM on the wing.

 

[Dr Fink]

A very frustrating game to watch, evident by the feelings of people around me in the stand. The bisggest problem for us was caused by our captain. Where exactly was Rooney supposed to be playing? He was everywhere, far too deep, far too often. In doing so, RVP was left totally isolated, making him even more ineffective. He's not in the best of form to start with. Rooney can do this "playmaker" role in a diamond formation, with two up top. LVG should have told him at half time to be more disciplined. I'd guessed that Carrick was going to play beforehand, but he just seemed to slow everything down. I personally prefer Blind as the holder in the midfield. I think we could have got away with two kids in the middle at the back - Blackett and McNair, playing in their preferred typical positions. It would have been very brave though, so I can see why he put Blind in there.

We just did not move the ball quickly enough, too often it went forwards, then back, sideways, sideways. Like a Moyes team from last season, which scared me. Carrick didn't offer the "out-ball" from the back, like Blind seems to. ADM has had his third off game and we don't seem to tick. I agree with a few posts before, we missed the drive of Herrera. Someone needs to drive the tempo if ADM is out of sorts. (Tell me this: how come ADM can take a wicked free-kick but cannot clear the first man with his corners? Dreadful delivery.)

We won, yet me and my mates who went came away totally disatisfied. Still, it is 3 points. A step backwards for me. But we have been more positive than negative so far this season. 4th is not out of the question in my opinion, but improvement is required and more so, consistency.

 

[RedStarUnited]

A very frustrating game to watch, evident by the feelings of people around me in the stand. The bisggest problem for us was caused by our captain. Where exactly was Rooney supposed to be playing? He was everywhere, far too deep, far too often. In doing so, RVP was left totally isolated, making him even more ineffective. He's not in the best of form to start with. Rooney can do this "playmaker" role in a diamond formation, with two up top. LVG should have told him at half time to be more disciplined. I'd guessed that Carrick was going to play beforehand, but he just seemed to slow everything down. I personally prefer Blind as the holder in the midfield. I think we could have got away with two kids in the middle at the back - Blackett and McNair, playing in their preferred typical positions. It would have been very brave though, so I can see why he put Blind in there.

We just did not move the ball quickly enough, too often it went forwards, then back, sideways, sideways. Like a Moyes team from last season, which scared me. Carrick didn't offer the "out-ball" from the back, like Blind seems to. ADM has had his third off game and we don't seem to tick. I agree with a few posts before, we missed the drive of Herrera. Someone needs to drive the tempo if ADM is out of sorts. (Tell me this: how come ADM can take a wicked free-kick but cannot clear the first man with his corners? Dreadful delivery.)

We won, yet me and my mates who went came away totally disatisfied. Still, it is 3 points. A step backwards for me. But we have been more positive than negative so far this season. 4th is not out of the question in my opinion, but improvement is required and more so, consistency.

Agree with all this. The pleasing thing for me was that LVG mentioned the same things in the post match interview. So at least he acknowledged the problems too.

'We needed patience and in the first half we played the ball well, but we could have done so with more speed'

'I am very pleased that the team decided to kill the game. We played back to [David] De Gea a bit too much and we need to do better with that.'

 

[Feedingseagulls]

Finally had a chance to watch the game last night.
One major impression was the intelligent interchange Carrick carried out with our defenders. He was always ready to cover back into the defensive alignment if they were out of position or advancing with the ball. As things developed they would swap back. So this gave us extra options to generate attacks from deep.

Given comments above I checked Di Maria's game, and there were many occasions when he was not playing stuck out on the left wing as some would have you believe caused his comparative slump.

Generally a sensible approach by LVG to deal with our defensive issues it seemed to me. Not exciting going forwards, but pleased with the points and on another day we would have scored more.

 

[Shimo]

Reading this thread on Saturday, almost felt like people would have been happier with us losing. Oh well - I thought it was a great performance as what matter was the win and getting back on track. We controlled the game and limited their chances. Once we establish that base, we can start looking to take more risks going forward

 

[Nathan]

I thought we started brightly but then we slacked off and went into our shell. Glad we managed to score & keep a clean sheet. So yes like some have said, it's an ugly win but a win nonetheless

 

[sunama]

Guys, this game was all about getting 3 points.
Its very nice playing beautiful football, but when LvG is in danger of losing his job, he has to think about points.
Top 4 is our target and I think LvG intimated that he was content with a 1-0 win.

Positive: 3 points.
Negative: weak finishing, requiring a wonder strike from Mata for our goal.

Our next game is Arsenal and I'd be more than happy playing unattractive football and getting 3 points.
We NEED points at this stage.

 

[Pexbo]

Guys, this game was all about getting 3 points.
Its very nice playing beautiful football, but when LvG is in danger of losing his job, he has to think about points.
Top 4 is our target and I think LvG intimated that he was content with a 1-0 win.

Positive: 3 points.
Negative: weak finishing, requiring a wonder strike from Mata for our goal.

Our next game is Arsenal and I'd be more than happy playing unattractive football and getting 3 points.
We NEED points at this stage.

In danger of losing his job. Don't be so bloody sensationalist.

 

[mazhar13]

This match clearly highlighted our main problem that we've suffered since the West Brom match: an over-reliance on our wide players to not only create chances but to provide speed and tempo to our game. Rooney played too deep and too rigidly in his central midfield role, and it's quite clear that he doesn't really know how to play that role. He's much better off playing higher up the pitch where he's more familiar. Fellaini has also shown that he's not a good enough central midfielder. Positionally, he was fine, but his passing was horrible not in terms of accuracy but in terms of the passes he picked. There were many instances when he could have passed the ball to someone in a dangerous area but opt out of it and go for a much safer option. Fellaini and Rooney's performances in central midfield made us very slow, safe, and lethargic from the middle. What resulted from this was an over-reliance on Januzaj and di Maria to not only create chances but also make up for Rooney's and Fellaini's limitations in central midfield. So many times, I've seen di Maria and Januzaj cut in with only van Persie as a viable option with a lack of support from Rooney and Fellaini poorly positioning himself.

Another big issue was the lack of support di Maria and Januzaj got. Sure, they were supported by their full backs, but we needed to outnumber the opposition in the wide areas, which we've failed to do for the past 4 matches. Too often were di Maria and Januzaj double-teamed with no central midfielder offering them support. Having said this, Januzaj's decision-making in that match shows that he's still naive in his approach. When it was difficult for him to take on the opposition, he shouldn't have persisted on trying to dribble past players. Mata was much better in this sense, and by playing in a less deeper role, he was able to make us more fluid and quick in our passing. This is what I would have expected Januzaj to do rather than dwell on the ball and try to dribble past players.

Defensively, I thought we were not that bad bar one or two moments of madness. McNair looks very mature in central defence and is very good at carrying the ball forward. Shaw's looking like a world class full back and is such a joy to watch. I just love watching Blind as well with his very intelligent game. Valencia had it easy against Bolasie, IMO. Bolasie tried too often to beat Valencia with pace and strength even though that was always going to be a losing battle for him. Carrick was very good in this game, I feel, as he kept us composed in possession and offered us a strong base to build upon with his good positioning, reading of the game, and passing. Too bad we were too lethargic and static to take advantage of that, though.

Overall, It's clear that we are in dire need of a midfield dictator who can help us play at a good tempo and make us more fluid in our game. Yes, we are badly missing Herrera in central midfield. We are also missing creativity through the middle with much of that responsibility being put onto our wingers. It's also clear that Rooney is not good enough in central midfield and Fellaini is only good enough to perform specific jobs in midfield. If we want physicality in central midfield, there are better options than Fellaini at the moment (Paulinho, Kramer, Rudy, Lars Bender, etc.).

 

[ravelston]

This match clearly highlighted our main problem that we've suffered since the West Brom match: an over-reliance on our wide players to not only create chances but to provide speed and tempo to our game. Rooney played too deep and too rigidly in his central midfield role, and it's quite clear that he doesn't really know how to play that role. He's much better off playing higher up the pitch where he's more familiar. Fellaini has also shown that he's not a good enough central midfielder. Positionally, he was fine, but his passing was horrible not in terms of accuracy but in terms of the passes he picked. There were many instances when he could have passed the ball to someone in a dangerous area but opt out of it and go for a much safer option. Fellaini and Rooney's performances in central midfield made us very slow, safe, and lethargic from the middle. What resulted from this was an over-reliance on Januzaj and di Maria to not only create chances but also make up for Rooney's and Fellaini's limitations in central midfield. So many times, I've seen di Maria and Januzaj cut in with only van Persie as a viable option with a lack of support from Rooney and Fellaini poorly positioning himself.

Another big issue was the lack of support di Maria and Januzaj got. Sure, they were supported by their full backs, but we needed to outnumber the opposition in the wide areas, which we've failed to do for the past 4 matches. Too often were di Maria and Januzaj double-teamed with no central midfielder offering them support. Having said this, Januzaj's decision-making in that match shows that he's still naive in his approach. When it was difficult for him to take on the opposition, he shouldn't have persisted on trying to dribble past players. Mata was much better in this sense, and by playing in a less deeper role, he was able to make us more fluid and quick in our passing. This is what I would have expected Januzaj to do rather than dwell on the ball and try to dribble past players.

Defensively, I thought we were not that bad bar one or two moments of madness. McNair looks very mature in central defence and is very good at carrying the ball forward. Shaw's looking like a world class full back and is such a joy to watch. I just love watching Blind as well with his very intelligent game. Valencia had it easy against Bolasie, IMO. Bolasie tried too often to beat Valencia with pace and strength even though that was always going to be a losing battle for him. Carrick was very good in this game, I feel, as he kept us composed in possession and offered us a strong base to build upon with his good positioning, reading of the game, and passing. Too bad we were too lethargic and static to take advantage of that, though.

Overall, It's clear that we are in dire need of a midfield dictator who can help us play at a good tempo and make us more fluid in our game. Yes, we are badly missing Herrera in central midfield. We are also missing creativity through the middle with much of that responsibility being put onto our wingers. It's also clear that Rooney is not good enough in central midfield and Fellaini is only good enough to perform specific jobs in midfield. If we want physicality in central midfield, there are better options than Fellaini at the moment (Paulinho, Kramer, Rudy, Lars Bender, etc.).

We're going to be hard pressed to sign any of them in time for the Arsenal game (which, for me, is what "at the moment" means).

 

[POF]

This match clearly highlighted our main problem that we've suffered since the West Brom match: an over-reliance on our wide players to not only create chances but to provide speed and tempo to our game. Rooney played too deep and too rigidly in his central midfield role, and it's quite clear that he doesn't really know how to play that role. He's much better off playing higher up the pitch where he's more familiar. Fellaini has also shown that he's not a good enough central midfielder. Positionally, he was fine, but his passing was horrible not in terms of accuracy but in terms of the passes he picked. There were many instances when he could have passed the ball to someone in a dangerous area but opt out of it and go for a much safer option. Fellaini and Rooney's performances in central midfield made us very slow, safe, and lethargic from the middle. What resulted from this was an over-reliance on Januzaj and di Maria to not only create chances but also make up for Rooney's and Fellaini's limitations in central midfield. So many times, I've seen di Maria and Januzaj cut in with only van Persie as a viable option with a lack of support from Rooney and Fellaini poorly positioning himself.

Another big issue was the lack of support di Maria and Januzaj got. Sure, they were supported by their full backs, but we needed to outnumber the opposition in the wide areas, which we've failed to do for the past 4 matches. Too often were di Maria and Januzaj double-teamed with no central midfielder offering them support. Having said this, Januzaj's decision-making in that match shows that he's still naive in his approach. When it was difficult for him to take on the opposition, he shouldn't have persisted on trying to dribble past players. Mata was much better in this sense, and by playing in a less deeper role, he was able to make us more fluid and quick in our passing. This is what I would have expected Januzaj to do rather than dwell on the ball and try to dribble past players.

Defensively, I thought we were not that bad bar one or two moments of madness. McNair looks very mature in central defence and is very good at carrying the ball forward. Shaw's looking like a world class full back and is such a joy to watch. I just love watching Blind as well with his very intelligent game. Valencia had it easy against Bolasie, IMO. Bolasie tried too often to beat Valencia with pace and strength even though that was always going to be a losing battle for him. Carrick was very good in this game, I feel, as he kept us composed in possession and offered us a strong base to build upon with his good positioning, reading of the game, and passing. Too bad we were too lethargic and static to take advantage of that, though.

Overall, It's clear that we are in dire need of a midfield dictator who can help us play at a good tempo and make us more fluid in our game. Yes, we are badly missing Herrera in central midfield. We are also missing creativity through the middle with much of that responsibility being put onto our wingers. It's also clear that Rooney is not good enough in central midfield and Fellaini is only good enough to perform specific jobs in midfield. If we want physicality in central midfield, there are better options than Fellaini at the moment (Paulinho, Kramer, Rudy, Lars Bender, etc.).

I pretty much agree with all of that. The diamond was a system that suited the players. The current 4-3-3 is a system selected to provide more stability and balance with players shoe horned into the system. The creative burden is falling on the wingers and they're not playing well enough. Rooney is playing far too deep. I hope it's a temporary solution until they can find a more balanced version of the diamond.

 

[Cassidy]

I pretty much agree with all of that. The diamond was a system that suited the players. The current 4-3-3 is a system selected to provide more stability and balance with players shoe horned into the system. The creative burden is falling on the wingers and they're not playing well enough. Rooney is playing far too deep. I hope it's a temporary solution until they can find a more balanced version of the diamond.

If they play the diamond, but drop one of the Strikers and play Carrick in beside/behind Blind that would work for me.

 

[POF]

If they play the diamond, but drop one of the Strikers and play Carrick in beside/behind Blind that would work for me.

Not sure what shape that is then but I know what you mean! I would play exactly like you say vs Arsenal away but I think the orthodox diamond can still work if Herrera plays at the top (instead of Rooney or Mata) and defends more as a genuine central midfielder. Not sure who would play the Herrera role on the right in that situation though.

 

[dirkey]

I read this thread last night, a few days removed from the Palace game, and it really cracks me up. OK, some people seem to talk some sense. But some people are panicking after a bad performance ... it makes me wonder how old they are? Do they not remember many times United under Fergie would grind out 1-0 wins when not playing well? You can't always perform to your best, as a team, nor individual players. People talking about Van Gaal being on the brink of the sack, or how this was our worst performance of the season .. honest to God, give me strength. It's a tabloid mentality these days on the forums, pure sensationalism.

The best thing about it, if United managed to go out against Arsenal, perform well & get the three points, I'd wager that some of the same people would be on talking about how great the team is, Van Gaal's plan is all coming together, then going on to map out the next 5 games, talking about title tilts etc.

Every bad performance and the world is ending, good performance and the team is back. There's no reality and middle ground.

End of the day, team didn't play well against a very well organised and tough to break down Palace. This happens. We got the 3 points. Crucial, and the only thing that matters at the moment. Let's start to pick up results and gain confidence. The performances will come from there.

 

[Roboc7]

I read this thread last night, a few days removed from the Palace game, and it really cracks me up. OK, some people seem to talk some sense. But some people are panicking after a bad performance ... it makes me wonder how old they are? Do they not remember many times United under Fergie would grind out 1-0 wins when not playing well? You can't always perform to your best, as a team, nor individual players. People talking about Van Gaal being on the brink of the sack, or how this was our worst performance of the season .. honest to God, give me strength. It's a tabloid mentality these days on the forums, pure sensationalism.

The best thing about it, if United managed to go out against Arsenal, perform well & get the three points, I'd wager that some of the same people would be on talking about how great the team is, Van Gaal's plan is all coming together, then going on to map out the next 5 games, talking about title tilts etc.

Every bad performance and the world is ending, good performance and the team is back. There's no reality and middle ground.

End of the day, team didn't play well against a very well organised and tough to break down Palace. This happens. We got the 3 points. Crucial, and the only thing that matters at the moment. Let's start to pick up results and gain confidence. The performances will come from there.

A lot of the responses are over the top but I think that is natural considering the circumstances, everyone is looking for a turning point but it just isn’t happening and won’t until we string a winning run together. It’s the same with opinions about players Mata is being praised for a good cameo, Fellaini for a few good/decent games, Di Maria and Januzaj getting a lot of stick for a few poor games, we are 11 games in and I don’t think we are can say with any certainty how good/bad individuals or the team are.

In the context of one game grinding out a 1-0 win is no big deal but when you have only won 3 other games, all at home and were clinging on at the end in two of them I don’t think we can really look at it in the same manner as when we used to win those kind of games under SAF.

 

[mazhar13]

I pretty much agree with all of that. The diamond was a system that suited the players. The current 4-3-3 is a system selected to provide more stability and balance with players shoe horned into the system. The creative burden is falling on the wingers and they're not playing well enough. Rooney is playing far too deep. I hope it's a temporary solution until they can find a more balanced version of the diamond.

I don't really mind if the creative burden falls on the wingers. Januzaj and di Maria are excellent at creating chances and performing in the final third. My main issue is that they're very easily closed down as no one from central midfield supports our wingers. In a 4-3-3/4-1-4-1, if you have wingers stretching the play, you need central midfielders to go and support them so that they (and the full backs) don't get outnumbered by the opposition. We have good passing triangles in the middle of the park, but once the ball goes out wide, we only have two players out at the wide area being matched/outnumbered by the opposition, resulting in frequent double-teaming on di Maria and Januzaj. How can di Maria and Januzaj have a good influence in the game if no one from the middle is providing them support?

I read this thread last night, a few days removed from the Palace game, and it really cracks me up. OK, some people seem to talk some sense. But some people are panicking after a bad performance ... it makes me wonder how old they are? Do they not remember many times United under Fergie would grind out 1-0 wins when not playing well? You can't always perform to your best, as a team, nor individual players. People talking about Van Gaal being on the brink of the sack, or how this was our worst performance of the season .. honest to God, give me strength. It's a tabloid mentality these days on the forums, pure sensationalism.

The best thing about it, if United managed to go out against Arsenal, perform well & get the three points, I'd wager that some of the same people would be on talking about how great the team is, Van Gaal's plan is all coming together, then going on to map out the next 5 games, talking about title tilts etc.

Every bad performance and the world is ending, good performance and the team is back. There's no reality and middle ground.

End of the day, team didn't play well against a very well organised and tough to break down Palace. This happens. We got the 3 points. Crucial, and the only thing that matters at the moment. Let's start to pick up results and gain confidence. The performances will come from there.

Given how people go either to one extreme or the other on the Internet, I'm not surprised with the responses by people. I, myself, am satisfied with this win, and I'm happy that the team's starting to get more used to the system instilled into them by van Gaal. There are still signs that they're still adjusting to it, but progress is being made each match, and that's what is providing me hope. However, most people here care about instant results, so I'm not surprised if they're reacting like this, particularly when we haven't met the expectations so far.

 

[dirkey]

A lot of the responses are over the top but I think that is natural considering the circumstances, everyone is looking for a turning point but it just isn’t happening and won’t until we string a winning run together. It’s the same with opinions about players Mata is being praised for a good cameo, Fellaini for a few good/decent games, Di Maria and Januzaj getting a lot of stick for a few poor games, we are 11 games in and I don’t think we are can say with any certainty how good/bad individuals or the team are.

In the context of one game grinding out a 1-0 win is no big deal but when you have only won 3 other games, all at home and were clinging on at the end in two of them I don’t think we can really look at it in the same manner as when we used to win those kind of games under SAF.

That's the thing though, I don't think it's natural. Well, sadly, maybe it is natural in this day and age. But when did people lose the ability to show a bit of patience? This world of instant gratification and expecting the quick fix is just ridiculous. As I say, I fully expect people to go the other way in the post Arsenal thread, should we beat them. People over-react these days to the smallest thing. Every result is either huge or terrible. There's no common sense, middle ground. (When I say this, obviously there are people on here who are showing common sense / middle ground in my opinion, but there are far too many over-reacting).

Yes, we've only won 3 games alright. But I think it's unfair of people to expect great things despite all the upheaval. Let's also not forget that we've had an awful run of injuries, and we've some players dreadfully out of form. At the end of the season, we want to be back in the top 4. We're currently 2 points off the top 4 (at least we were the last time I looked).

Patience is what's required. Louis is a great manager, not a magician. It'll take him time to get it all right too. He will make mistakes, but he'll learn from them, as he has proved in the past.

I see people lamenting that we're not playing the exciting stuff we were in the diamond, and it's true, we're not. But there's a reason we aren't, and there's a reason he changed it - we're absolutely horrible at the back. At the minute, we have 4 experienced-ish centre backs, and the jury is out on each and every one of them as to whether they're good enough. 1 is new to the country, and the others all have histories of complete brain farts, along with injuries. Speaking of which, they're all currently out, suspended or injured. Hence the change to a more compact, less fluid set up. Designed to get us 3 points.

As I say, give it time. Get a few wins under the belt, get people's confidence up, and then the football will come.