[Roux]

Tadic played really well and found lots of space between the United midfield and defence but was rarely on the right to "have him on toast".

Rojo didn't play well at all and didn't even defend corners vs Yoshida well but the decision to pick him made perfect sense. I'm not confident picking a winger at left back would have made the defence any more solid.

He was constantly on the right and through the middle. Gabbiadini also floated out to there and gave him a hard time. Look at both their heat maps on whoscored if you need proof.

Young is a competent right-back and left back - we've seen it many times at United. He played well at right-back in the last game. I would have chosen him over good a CB who is absolutely awful at LB.

Southampton are one of the lowest ranked teams in the league to score from set-pieces (3rd last).

 

[minoo-utd]

Mourinho seemed to throw out his "lessons learnt" file yesterday.

-Rojo can't play left back well
-Rojo is better than Smalling this season at CB
-Smalling can't play football
-Herrera and Pogba don't work without Carrick
-Lingard is consistantly a poor performer (although he managed to get a goal out of Mr Wembley himself)

We won inspite of a poor performance from Mourinho. Everyone is allowed an odd mistake including him. To me it just seemed as though he disregarded evidence from this season and almost paid for it. I think that was the real reason for his demeanour during and post game, he felt his players were letting him down after he showed confidence in them to start them but also knew he ballsed up on a few key decisions. Fortunately for all United parties he was able to salvage the game by bringing Carrick on. It was one that almost got away overall but hopefully it's the first of a few this season IF Mourinho remembers his "lessons learnt"

This spot on. We need a replacement for Carrick next season its priority, some holding MF who can play every game.
Jones should be playing alongside Rojo or Bailly he is so much better with ball than Smalling and with his injury history we might need to add a cb also.

 

[POF]

He was constantly on the right and through the middle. Gabbiadini also floated out to there and gave him a hard time. Look at both their heat maps on whoscored if you need proof.

Young is a competent right-back and left back - we've seen it many times at United. He played well at right-back in the last game. I would have chosen him over good a CB who is absolutely awful at LB.

Southampton are one of the lowest ranked teams in the league to score from set-pieces.

I don't think Young has played a minute at left back this season. But you would start him there in a cup final?

Fair enough if you would. Thankfully you don't pick the team.

 

[Roux]

I don't think Young has played a minute at left back this season. But you would start him there in a cup final?

Fair enough if you would. Thankfully you don't pick the team.

What does this season have to do with it? He's played the position many many times - its not completely alien to him. You're just jumping from one excuse to the other now. If you're going to use that one - how many times has Rojo played LB this season? Can't have been more than once or twice.

 

[minoo-utd]

Awful at defending set pieces! why ? don't know.

 

[MadMike]

This spot on. We need a replacement for Carrick next season its priority, some holding MF who can play every game.
Jones should be playing alongside Rojo or Bailly he is so much better with ball than Smalling and with his injury history we might need to add a cb also.

We (the fans) never learn.

We moved away from playing Carrick to playing Mkhi in the middle (with Mata on the right) because against 80% of the teams what we needed is more attacking threat, not more possession in midfield. We don't need a MF who can play every game, but we do need a MF who we can trust to come in against top quality teams or when we're under the cosh in a game and who can help us retain possession and control the tempo.

The same team selection is not always the best against any opposition. Playing Mkhi-Mata with Herrera-Pogba in the middle is the best formation for games where we have all the possession and need to break teams down. But a quality CDM is needed for the matches like yesterday's.

 

[Gladiator]

We (the fans) never learn.

We moved away from playing Carrick to playing Mkhi in the middle (with Mata on the right) because against 80% of the teams what we needed is more attacking threat, not more possession in midfield. We don't need a MF who can play every game, but we do need a MF who we can trust to come in against top quality teams or when we're under the cosh in a game and who can help us retain possession and control the tempo.

The same team selection is not always the best against any opposition. Playing Mkhi-Mata with Herrera-Pogba in the middle is the best formation for games where we have all the possession and need to break teams down. But a quality CDM is needed for the matches like yesterday's.

yep solid points.

 

[POF]

What does this season have to do with it? He's played the position many many times - its not completely alien to him. You're just jumping from one excuse to the other now. If you're going to use that one - how many times has Rojo played LB this season? Can't have been more than once or twice.

This season is the only one where Mourinho is the manager. What constitutes a defender under LVG (the only manager to play Young at left back) and Mourinho is completely different.

In United's system, the right back has a more attacking role to provide the width on the right while the left back has more defensive responsibility. I would be amazed if Jose ever started with Valencia and Young at full backs in the same game. But you would have to make the team more solid defensively. As I said, I am glad you don't pick the team.

Rojo has played left back quite a few times this season. Far more than once or twice.

 

[Red Dreams]

We rode our luck. Rojo was a disaster waiting to happen. Zlatan is the man though.

our entire defence was poor I felt.

We won because their defence was also poor...and of course Zlatan.

Mind you their goalie was far from impressive.

 

[Skills]

With the way that game went, now I'm pretty convinced we'll lose to them at St Mary's

 

[Roux]

This season is the only one where Mourinho is the manager. What constitutes a defender under LVG (the only manager to play Young at left back) and Mourinho is completely different.

In United's system, the right back has a more attacking role to provide the width on the right while the left back has more defensive responsibility. I would be amazed if Jose ever started with Valencia and Young at full backs in the same game. But you would have to make the team more solid defensively. As I said, I am glad you don't pick the team.

Rojo has played left back quite a few times this season. Far more than once or twice.

That's because our right back is actually very very good. On the left - we don't have anyone near that level, its not tactics - its a limitation of the players. Both Young and Valencia have the experience and discipline to attack and defend at the right times. The fact that you've brought this 'right side is given more licence to attack' thing is laughable. Both full-backs should have this licence and its not even about attacking, its more about having pace. Which is obviously why a fully fit, in form Luke Shaw is a guaranteed first choice LB in the fans eyes and Jose's eyes. So that negates your point.

Yes - because your pick was an absolute car crash yesterday .

Rojo has played LB 3 times this season according to WS and if i remember one of those was as a late sub. So you are wrong once again.

 

[TMDaines]

With the way that game went, now I'm pretty convinced we'll lose to them at St Mary's

I think people are underestimating how much they benefited from two solid weeks of preparation for what is almost literally their final meaningful game of the season (no derbies, out of all the cups and no chance of Europe). They'll only have two to four days of prep next time, given it will be a midweek rearrangement. It was always going to be a tough match yesterday.

 

[TMDaines]

We (the fans) never learn.

We moved away from playing Carrick to playing Mkhi in the middle (with Mata on the right) because against 80% of the teams what we needed is more attacking threat, not more possession in midfield. We don't need a MF who can play every game, but we do need a MF who we can trust to come in against top quality teams or when we're under the cosh in a game and who can help us retain possession and control the tempo.

The same team selection is not always the best against any opposition. Playing Mkhi-Mata with Herrera-Pogba in the middle is the best formation for games where we have all the possession and need to break teams down. But a quality CDM is needed for the matches like yesterday's.

Agreed - and if in doubt, I'd rather start 4-3-3 and get control, before bringing another more attacking option on later on if beneficial.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

We (the fans) never learn.

We moved away from playing Carrick to playing Mkhi in the middle (with Mata on the right) because against 80% of the teams what we needed is more attacking threat, not more possession in midfield. We don't need a MF who can play every game, but we do need a MF who we can trust to come in against top quality teams or when we're under the cosh in a game and who can help us retain possession and control the tempo.

The same team selection is not always the best against any opposition. Playing Mkhi-Mata with Herrera-Pogba in the middle is the best formation for games where we have all the possession and need to break teams down. But a quality CDM is needed for the matches like yesterday's.

So true, and hopefully it will be sorted this Summer. I was hoping to see TFM get a chance or 2 in that role this year but it does not look like its going to happen.

 

[MadMike]

Agreed - and if in doubt, I'd rather start 4-3-3 and get control, before bringing another more attacking option on later on if beneficial.

That really depends man. You start with 4-3-3 against Hull and you're 0-0 after 60 mins by which time and crowd and the players get nervous. You're better off starting with 4-2-3-1, going in aggressively getting the goal(s) and then maybe switching to 4-3-3 to retain the result.

It's a management call, depending on the opponent and the situation.

 

[ChaddyP]

Based on the responses in here you would have forgotten that we scored 3 beautiful goals ourselves, we played 3 games in between sotons last game 2 weeks ago and they should have been down to at least 10 Men before they scored. Yes we were all over the shop but soton still conceded 3 goals. Feck them we won, citeh and pool fans are pissed off, things are back to normal.

 

[TMDaines]

That really depends man. You start with 4-3-3 against Hull and you're 0-0 after 60 mins by which time and crowd and the players get nervous. You're better off starting with 4-2-3-1, going in aggressively getting the goal(s) and then maybe switching to 4-3-3 to retain the result.

It's a management call, depending on the opponent and the situation.

I wouldn't be in doubt with going 4-2-3-1 against sides I expect to dominate though!

I think most would agree Southampton are a top half side and yesterday was not going to be easy. For me I start with three midfielders every time. Bournemouth at home this weekend, I go 4-2-3-1. Rostov, I'm unsure, they've got a decent home record, I go 4-3-3 and get control.

I agree it is a management call, but I would lean towards three central midfielders and 4-3-3, if unsure.

 

[daveoliver91]

To be honest we didn't deserve to win, but who cares, it's a final!
Southampton did a really great performance: well organized team, fresh (keep in mind they had 2 weeks to prepare the game) and Gabiaddini was causing problems to our defenders all time. Luckily we've Ibra and what makes the difference between Southampton and United is that we were clinical, and they missed lot of chances to score.

 

[MadMike]

I wouldn't be in doubt with going 4-2-3-1 against sides I expect to dominate though!

I think most would agree Southampton are a top half side and yesterday was not going to be easy. For me I start with three midfielders every time. Bournemouth at home this weekend, I go 4-2-3-1. Rostov, I'm unsure, they've got a decent home record, I go 4-3-3 and get control.

I agree it is a management call, but I would lean towards three central midfielders and 4-3-3, if unsure.

Fair point, I agree. One more thing I wanted to add to this, is that it's not about formation alone, it's also about which players you have available/selected.

For example the 4-2-3-1 we played yesterday might have worked, had Mkhi been in the team. When a team like Soton play high press, spaces open up on their side of the pitch for fast runners/dribblers to exploit. If Mkhi had cut through them a couple of times with his running that might have forced them back or hurt them with goals.

On the other hand Lingard and Mata are not good at running with the ball or linking up when under pressure, therefore badly suited to unlock a high press. One is fast but has bad ball control, the other has good ball control but is slow and they are both weak.

 

[Adisa]

He was really cool actually, very pro United of course, while remaining polite and not at all as harsh as he could have been in the face of the dumb questions that Jim White and Ray Parlour were posing!

Thanks.

 

[Robertd0803]

Delighted with the win. We didn't play very well at all and was horrified we threw away a 2 goal lead but never had the feeling that Southampton would score 3. That's the difference between us now and ever since Fergie retired, the belief that we will win no matter what is coming back.

Zlatan is just magnificent.

1000 posts and what better way for post 1000 than in this thread

 

[OohAahMartial]

I think its easy to forget that we were missing Mhki, Jones, Rooney, Carrick (half fit), Mata (grieving), and that this led to the team being less than ideal. That on top of many games including European away game led to a below par performance. I think it also meant that Puel had a long time to analyse and prepare for us vs. Jose, and that showed in game plan. They exposed Mata's lack of pace and Valencia's getting forward by playing balls over and behind Valencia. Surprised Lingard wasn't on the wing instead of Mata, which was probably a mistake really. As was Rojo at LB instead of Blind, which was just bizarre unless Blind wasn't fully fit after his last game.

What was so special was that despite these difficulties how we responded to them. Zlatan stepping up and taking the responsibility onto his shoulders. Lingard getting a goal instead of Mhki. Jose changing formation and Carrick going on despite his recent calf strain. Losing a two goal lead but not losing heart or the will to win. That alone is enough to make me love this United more than ever.

United will never die.

 

[siw2007]

Was at Wembley yesterday and was the first time I've seen United in a cup final and glad that we won. They were really up for it, far fresher and more tactically prepared than we were which is understandable. They found a real weakness in the wide positions and put our backline under immense pressure for the majority of the game. We didn't play well in all fairness, Ibrahimovic was absolute class but defensively we were a shambles and our midfield didn't offer much cover either. Still, I can't fault the effort levels of the players, they didn't stop running regardless of how bleak it looked and we scored 3 great goals.

Southampton fans will rightly feel aggrieved over the disallowed goal, though I think it is a case of being unlucky as opposed to being outright robbed. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility for a pass going across goal to a player who is offside and making a run to play the ball to be deemed offside regardless as to whether their forward intercepts the pass before it reaches him. The goal probably should have stood as there is enough of a case to claim that the player at the far post wasn't interfering with play but the rules are quite vague as to what constitutes as a player 'interfering with play'. From our point of view though, we have got one back for the defeat in 76, when we probably thought we were hard done by.

The most important point is that we won the cup! Mourinho is now the only Man United manager to have won a trophy in his first season which in some ways is a bizarre record.

 

[Isotope]

Cute, but for the club to continue to sustain itself and win more trophies, we need Top 4. League cup & FA Cup is not going to pay the wages of Top players.

Nah. What we need is challenging for the League title. That's when I don't really care about the FA & League Cup. If we're just aiming for Top 4 because of the financial benefit, over time the club will also financially suffer from the decrease in commercial/sponsors. If I were the sponsors, I know which club I'd give my money to: a team that sitting 6th but won 10 FA Cups & 10 League Cups, or a team that always in Top 4 but no trophies in the last 10 years.

 

[JustAFan]

Cute, but for the club to continue to sustain itself and win more trophies, we need Top 4. League cup & FA Cup is not going to pay the wages of Top players.

I don't think meeting payroll is really an issue for the club right now or in the future

 

[RedMaestro]

The devil is in the details...

 

[whatwha]

I think people are underestimating how much they benefited from two solid weeks of preparation for what is almost literally their final meaningful game of the season (no derbies, out of all the cups and no chance of Europe). They'll only have two to four days of prep next time, given it will be a midweek rearrangement. It was always going to be a tough match yesterday.

Do they really need to do much more preparation for the next game against us? They can just do the same thing.

 

[sunama]

We were lucky. If Zlatan is having an off-day we lose this game, which is a bad place to be. We can't have our success depending on the performance of a single player.

This is true, but what can we do when none of our other attackers are upto the task?
Mata was pretty much useless and was rightfully taken off.
Lingard did what he was supposed to - score at Wembley.
Martial didn't cover himself in glory.
Rashford was "okay", but again, ineffective.
Miki was injured and hamstring injuries are always difficult to sort out, so he may never be prolific for MUFC.
That leaves it all up to Ibra.

Unless we buy 3 new attackers I honestly don't see this changing anytime soon.

 

[MadMike]

This is true, but what can we do when none of our other attackers are upto the task?
Mata was pretty much useless and was rightfully taken off.
Lingard did what he was supposed to - score at Wembley.
Martial didn't cover himself in glory.
Rashford was "okay", but again, ineffective.
Miki was injured and hamstring injuries are always difficult to sort out, so he may never be prolific for MUFC.
That leaves it all up to Ibra.

Unless we buy 3 new attackers I honestly don't see this changing anytime soon.

What the hell?

 

[vodrake]

Have we had a win against Southampton since they came back up where the overriding feeling after the match hasn't been that of how the hell did we just win that?

 

[TMDaines]

Do they really need to do much more preparation for the next game against us? They can just do the same thing.

Easier said than done when the game will be two months later.

Would also be pretty shortsighted to do the same thing, if we go with a different starting strategy and tactics. They were much the better team first half, but we were the better team by the end of the second. Playing two in midfield was the biggest reason we struggled until half time.

 

[Wessex Saint]

WE WOZ ROBBED.

 

[Robertd0803]

Have we had a win against Southampton since they came back up where the overriding feeling after the match hasn't been that of how the hell did we just win that?

Pogbas (2nd) debut this season was fairly straightforward.

Besides that no, they are normally tough to beat but oddly we do seem to have a few 3-2 scorelines against them.

 

[Denis79]

With the way that game went, now I'm pretty convinced we'll lose to them at St Mary's

This game was the highlight of their season and they had a long time to prepare for it, I think it's going to be a completely different game in the league.

 

[ChaddyP]

With the way that game went, now I'm pretty convinced we'll lose to them at St Mary's

We will steam roll them. They were gaming raising cnuts for a cup final, they had 2 weeks to prepare for.

In the league they have nothing to play for, are relatively safe and don't have a chance of a European spot. Lame duck, we should see past them.

 

[Skills]

We will steam roll them. They were gaming raising cnuts for a cup final, they had 2 weeks to prepare for.

In the league they have nothing to play for, are relatively safe and don't have a chance of a European spot. Lame duck, we should see past them.

They'll raise their game for this too I think. They've got nothing to play for this season, apart from maybe a bit of cup final revenge against us as they probably feel a bit robbed.

 

[ChaddyP]

They'll raise their game for this too I think. They've got nothing to play for this season, apart from maybe a bit of cup final revenge against us as they probably feel a bit robbed.

Yeh that's fair but it won't be anything like what we experienced in the cup final, we won the cup final (people tend to forget this) and that was them at 110 percent. We will be better equipped to deal with them too I think.

 

[Akshay]

They'll raise their game for this too I think. They've got nothing to play for this season, apart from maybe a bit of cup final revenge against us as they probably feel a bit robbed.

Yep. Think Mourinho's remarks post-game were to try to stave off that revenge mentality, but I expect them to still give us a very tough match. Hopefully we'll be better prepared tactically, at least.

 

[OL29]

What the hell?

Exactly what I was thinking
Is @sunama insinuating that Mkhi will never recover from that hamstring injury?

 

[Red Dreams]

He will be back for the FA Cup match for sure.