Post match vs Spurs

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No, watch the goal again. It makes perfect sense when he was the man on him when the move started. Nani was marking Vertonghen, Rafa was on Bale... they were both set-up well. Then Vertnghen and Bale played a quick 1-2 and Nani hesitated for a split second, and before he knew it, Vertonghen was off and had to give chase. Carrick was in line with the rest of our midfield and sort of watching over Sandro, ...
Which is why I place the blame squarely on the midfield. Sandro was never a genuine threat. He didn't have the ball and he wasn't the one with the license to attack our box like Dembele had. The ball was wide and Vertonghen was getting forward, the only thing for Carrick to do was occupy the space just ahead of where Rafael and Rio were to ensure Vertonghen couldn't drift inside and have a free run at goal if he did get past the wide man.

All Vertonghen did after Nani hesitated was to run forward a bit to get past him and drift inside to run at goal, the defence tried their best to cope when they realised he had been given free reign but they had no chance. Evans deflecting it home was unsurprising. Carrick's slowness of movement and poor positional play had left the defence wide open and Spurs took maximum advantage.

Lawmen also makes a good point about Evans reacting quicker. Either he or Rio should have done so having seen Vertonghen break through. Neither did and his saunter through the box ended up being ridiculously easy. Rafael and Rio at that point were rightfully occuppied by Bale and Defoe who were making dangerous runs.
The thing is their reaction was slow precisely because they rightful expected Carrick or Scholes to easily deal with Vertonghen drifting in field that high up the pitch.

They passed midfield because it was a break away. We were attacking and lost the ball,, so it's not outlandish that we'd be caught on the break.greed.
Honestly it is very outlandish to be caught on the counter by a fullback drifting infield, not too far from the center line. In fact its unacceptable.

In fact, it could be argue that Ando/Clev might have been caught out higher up the field due to both having greater attacking instincts then Scholes/Carrick. greed.
For all their defensive naivety I've never seen them allow fullbacks to drift inside unmolested that high up the pitch. They rather get caught out by attacks similar to the one that led to the second goal due to their propensity to drift so far forward without the defence pushing up to close the gap. Carrick ans Scholes were just plain asleep. Just like when the one two Bale did that led to the 2ns goal by passed them and Giggs with unsettling ease.
 

RedSky

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1st Goal:

I'd pin the blame for this on Carrick and Nani. Carrick if you pause it at the time the move starts. You have Carrick looking at the situation, he can see that Vertonhagen is about to get the ball and there's an acre of open space to run into. He should be running to close that space down, meanwhile Nani needs to track his man. Carricks too slow to react while Nani doesn't track his man fast enough. By the time it reaches our defense, the balls in the penalty area. Was an unlucky deflection for it to go in. But the problem came from midfield not defense. Rafael caught out of position again so Rio had to track Defoe to RB position which opened the space up.

2nd Goal:

Dembele runs past Scholes (who can't get near him). Dembele under no pressure passes the ball straight to Bale (I can't see who the player is next to Scholes, I think that's Kagawa? But he pretty much stops jogging at this point.) Also note Evras position top of frame, he's inline with Bale and Bale is running towards his area of the pitch. Evans tracks Defoes run while Rio follows Bale. Rafael is sprinting back into his RB position.

If you now pause it by the time Bale shoots, only Scholes is in the frame and he's outside of the box. Evra hasn't tracked Bale, Rafa is wrong side of Defoe, Evans is in a good position to mark Defoe and Rio isn't close enough to Bale.

The move started on the edge of Spurs box by Dembele. All Scholes had to do was track him but he let him go. Defense couldn't really have done much more, unless you want Rafael to track Bale and be pushed completely out of position. Evra should have got into the box quicker and Rio/Evans did all they could. Fullbacks and CM's at fault for that goal.

Don't have the time to evaluate the 3rd goal. But the problem is coming from our fullbacks not defending and our CM's not tracking back. Spurs also played us well and got their tactics spot on and took on the teams weakness'. Got to applaud AVB for that.
 

humdinger

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Like last season, its also our attitude and how we approach our game. Too laid back, too casual, no urgency or determination in our game. Spurs exploitet that quickly. Fergie was talking about a change of attitude in the second half. FFS, why is a change of attitude even necessary?
Agree with this. Why are they not going out there raring to go and desperate to impress? Why do they so frequently need a boot up the arse? It has cost us in the recent past so why do they still wander into games thinking they just need to turn up to win?
 

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1st Goal:

I'd pin the blame for this on Carrick and Nani. Carrick if you pause it at the time the move starts. You have Carrick looking at the situation, he can see that Vertonhagen is about to get the ball and there's an acre of open space to run into. He should be running to close that space down, meanwhile Nani needs to track his man. Carricks too slow to react while Nani doesn't track his man fast enough. By the time it reaches our defense, the balls in the penalty area. Was an unlucky deflection for it to go in. But the problem came from midfield not defense. Rafael caught out of position again so Rio had to track Defoe to RB position which opened the space up.
As I said, Carrick could be blamed for not being a bit deeper, but he's in line with our midfield, so you could perhaps say all of our midfield should be a bit deeper. He certainly should read the situation quicker, but Nani switching off for a split-second is surely the main thing that costs us here.

2nd Goal:

Dembele runs past Scholes (who can't get near him). Dembele under no pressure passes the ball straight to Bale (I can't see who the player is next to Scholes, I think that's Kagawa? But he pretty much stops jogging at this point.) Also note Evras position top of frame, he's inline with Bale and Bale is running towards his area of the pitch. Evans tracks Defoes run while Rio follows Bale. Rafael is sprinting back into his RB position.

If you now pause it by the time Bale shoots, only Scholes is in the frame and he's outside of the box. Evra hasn't tracked Bale, Rafa is wrong side of Defoe, Evans is in a good position to mark Defoe and Rio isn't close enough to Bale.

The move started on the edge of Spurs box by Dembele. All Scholes had to do was track him but he let him go. Defense couldn't really have done much more, unless you want Rafael to track Bale and be pushed completely out of position. Evra should have got into the box quicker and Rio/Evans did all they could. Fullbacks and CM's at fault for that goal.

Don't have the time to evaluate the 3rd goal. But the problem is coming from our fullbacks not defending and our CM's not tracking back. Spurs also played us well and got their tactics spot on and took on the teams weakness'. Got to applaud AVB for that.
Rafael doesn't need to run into a Right Back position, because there is no one at right back to mark. There is however there left winger who is running past him and he's doing nothing about it. There is no point in Rafael running to RB when the man he's supposed to be marking isn't there, and when he can see the man who he is supposed to be marking making a run, you'd imagine it would be a good idea to track him.

But failing that, Evans positioning is truly shocking. Why is he 10 yards behind Rio? And why is he 5 yards behind Defoe? It doesn't make any sense. Our defensive unit should be in a line, and when Defoe moves across, Evans should pass him over to Rio, and then deal with the oncoming Bale. As soon as Evans is a) 10 yards back and b) starts moving to the right, Bale suddenly has a huge space to run into, and Rio is fecked.

As I said, you could say Scholes should do better against Dembele... but what from the Fulham game showed that Clev would do a better job? Ando might have, but Dembele is strong and quick and could probably outpace Ando as well. Also, Scholes gave him too much space, but didn't let him go, he runs back with him, he's just afford him too much space... but it's Bale who did the damage for the goal, and Rafael not tracking him and Evans gifting him a shed load of space is what cost us.
 

Adam-Utd

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The 3rd goal for me was even worse, rio had defoe tracked into a corner and he let him get out, once defoe looked like he was getting free he should of take a foul, let us get back into position and shape up.

We are sometimes too clean for my liking, i know rio obviously likes to make slick tackles and win the ball cleanly but sometimes a good tactical foul makes a huge difference.

Anyway all this is for the coaching staff to analyse, but i just feel our mistakes are not being corrected at the moment.
 

Revan

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RK

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It's calculated differently in different places.

Some places time it, some places use passing statistics. I think Opta use the latter.

I'd imagine the Guardian one is more accurate, based on them using more statistical analysis and the BBC being fairly unreliable in general.
 

Tonjo

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I think the reason why Giggs was used was that he is supposed to balanced the left side of midfield and to protect Evra as Lennon is quite pacy.
A better option is to use Buttner as he used to be a left winger and he can tackle and is quite pacy. I always feel that without C. Querioz, United do not have any coache who is tactical inclined and Ferguson is too sentimental at times. Knowing that Spurs would be pacy, United opt for slowing down but was caught. It is obvious that whenever Carrick played with Scholes, he always let Scholes do more with the ball and will only be peripheral. Carrick will only take command when he plays with the rest of the younger midfielders. Too bad United needs to rely on Scholes so much as Ferguson likes to play with wingers and only Scholes can accurately spray passes to them. One option is to nuture Rooney in the Scholes role and He is the only other United player that can send those 40-50 yards passes accurately. United do not need to buy anymore midfielder as there are so many other options. A Fletcher (Holding), Anderson and Cleverly midfield combination would have done well against Spurs.
Once again, all "yesman" type of coaches and no one dares to say otherwise to Ferguson.
 

Suedesi

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It's a funny old game - if Rooney's free kick went in, I reckon we would have steamrolled the Spurs - and today's media headlines would be all about AVB being a bottler, and Fergie a genius...

True Fergie messed up the initial lineup, but it's not like AVB was able to affect the game tactically in the second. They were under the kosh and hanging on for dear life.

If Rooney's FK was a couple of millimeters to the right, if RVP didn't botch his chances, if Evra managed to squeeze his header either side of Friedel, or if we got a penalty decision our way (RVP/Gallas, Nani/Vertongen, Kagawa/Calker, Sandro handball) we'd be hearing a different tune today.
Fine margins and all.
 

Orton

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Watching Monday night football and Gary Neville's going over the goals. Evra was so damn lazy at tracking back for the 2nd and 3rd, left huge gaps and Evans and Rio were both exposed.
 

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Watching Monday night football and Gary Neville's going over the goals. Evra was so damn lazy at tracking back for the 2nd and 3rd, left huge gaps and Evans and Rio were both exposed.
Did Neville honestly say that? Surely he must have been more critical of Rafael's inability to follow Gareth Bale properly, or Evans poor positioning?!
 

Ash_G

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Think it's funny that against spurs who we know are highly energetic, stretch the pitch and look to expose space that we went for a set up that was as wide as we could be and asked the likes of scholes and giggs to do a lot of running. Then against cluj who by fergies own admission we expected to sit back that we went with a highly energetic team that's also narrow.