[Womp]

Anyone know why we were playing Mata on the left and Martial on the right after they came off the bench? What was the idea behind it?

We weren't? Mata was coming in off the right and Martial was off the left.

 

[Schneckerl]

People here overreact so much

We weren't that bad and the result isn't a disaster

 

[AgentP]

We weren't? Mata was coming in off the right and Martial was off the left.

For this first 10 minutes, they played on opposite flanks. Remember Martial's low cross for Lukaku.

 

[Womp]

For this first 10 minutes, they played on opposite flanks. Remember Martial's low cross for Lukaku.

They were interchanging positions, almost always been the case.

 

[AgentP]

Our CBs let us down today. Bailly completely lacked concentration for the first one. Jones was easily beaten by the player he was marking. We just didn't create enough chances overall. Mkhi on the RW is just not the same player. Maybe we should have just stuck with our usual formation. We missed Fellaini today as well.

 

[AgentP]

They were interchanging positions, almost always been the case.

Yeah, you are probably right.

 

[slir32]

I would rather have Mhiki on the bench than playing him on the RW. He starts as #10 or he comes on as a sub.

 

[beedoubleyou]

Embarrassing comments in this thread. Wasn't the best result, far from a disaster and we're still top of the league. Spoilt, whinging posts full of knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Green_Red]

Everytime the ball came to Herrera he took too many touches and too long to make up his mind what he was going to do with the ball. Added to that a couple of times when he passed he was inclined to tuck back in. We need everything going forwards against teams like Stoke.

I said in another thread before the start of the seasons that I feared for his place in the team when Matic was signed. Even more so now, he had plenty of opportunities to make forward passes that could have created something but didn't. If he's not careful he will become surplus to requirements. I'm willing to bet in won't be in the starting lineup for our next game.

You have to hand it to Stoke though, they stifled us, again... I said after the Swansea game if we came up against sterner opposition it would be a tough ask for us. Jose now needs to go away and think about how he's going to approach games on the road against mid-table teams that can grind out a result against us. 451 / 4231 is not needed away at Stoke. Pushing Mikhataryan out to the right is not making the best use of him either. Pogba and Mikhataryan playing centrally with Matic behind them is the best option we have for a midfield three.

When are we going to see Martial and Rashford start a game? It's ridiculous, both can provide width and attacking pace down the flanks.

At the end of the day we all know that Stoke is probably one of the hardest away days in the league, of the mid-table clubs.

We're lucky we have a couple of games to get this stuff right before we play any of the top 6.

The games towards the end of October and start of November will tell us exactly where we are in the pecking order.

 

[Pscholes18]

Comical defending... especially by Jones for the second.

 

[buckooo1978]

we laboured a little to create chances and work Butland. Our final ball was very poor at times and yet we still scored twice.

our defending cost us the game and you'd hope this game was a one off

hopefully Shaw will sort out left back and can stay fit

we are short of one flair player to create something out of nothing or a winger who can pick out team mates

 

[Adnandos]

Stoke is a bit of a bogey team for us, and especially considering it was right after an international break, to lose on individual errors isn't too big of a deal imo.

 

[Treble]

The clean sheets in the first 3 games created the illusion that we are rock solid in defence. However, in any of the 3 games the opposition had clear chances, Swansea even hit the bar when it was 0:0. Our defence is good but not much better than the defence of the other contenders.

 

[BigBebe]

I thought we were complacent, particularly in the first half. All that talk of us being title contenders/favorites seem to have gone to our heads and the attitude was all wrong. Got better in the second half but too little too late.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I thought we were complacent, particularly in the first half. All that talk of us being title contenders/favorites seem to have gone to our heads and the attitude was all wrong. Got better in the second half but too little too late.

You wonder how focused some are at times. Jones has been praised by Jose and even the media, Bailly got brought down to earth with a bang. Social media is fine when you have had a great game, but constantly tweeting before makes you look a bit silly if you then play badly.

 

[Treble]

I thought we were complacent, particularly in the first half. All that talk of us being title contenders/favorites seem to have gone to our heads and the attitude was all wrong. Got better in the second half but too little too late.

Thought Stoke were the better team for a good chunk of the second half.

 

[Rams]

Some people on here do overreact and have unrealistic expectations. Football is not played on a PlayStation. We definitely weren't that bad yesterday, nor were we that great either in the other 3 games. And despite being below par and Stoke rising to the occasion, we still should have won the game with the amount of chances we created. So far this season the team looks as strong as it's has done since Fergie retired.

 

[Will Singh]

Can't believe our defence, going from 3 clean sheets to this!

De Gea isn't human...

 

[Bestietom]

It was more an annoying result in that our defending was Sunday League stuff..

And someone should take our full backs and coach them into how to cross a ball.

This kind of defending will not win us many trophies...Back to the drawing board Jose...

 

[GM K]

I'm not expecting 100% conversion rate and I wasn't one of the many constantly criticising Zlatan last year but in a game like this you have to be able to take one of those very few chances, it wasn't that difficult and he deserves to be called on it.

In fairness, I have seen Messi, Ronaldo, Zlatan, Henry, RVP and Aguero miss such chances. It happens to all mortal men.

What will be worrying is if such misses now reach Theo Walcott proportions.

 

[Treble]

Can't believe our defence, going from 3 clean sheets to this!

De Gea isn't human...

If you watch the first 3 games carefully, we conceded clear chances in any of them. The clean sheets distorted the picture.

 

[DadiBG]

Two bad defensive mistakes, due to lack of concentration and quite possibly two weeks not playing together due to internationals. Ultimately, we scored two goals against a Stoke team that (expectedly) played with most of their team piled around their box. We snuffed them out on their counterattacks almost all game, but two silly mistakes cost us. It happens, Basel is next, so no time for heads to drop. Probably gonna play Smalling and Lindelof there, both as a kick up the butts for Baily and Jones and also to give them time and see how well they work.

Honestly, I'm ok with the way we played. Herrera did seem a player too much against a packed Stoke team, maybe we needed Mata from the start just so we have more ways of opening them up. Mkhi had a tremendous assist, but overall, as with previous games, I don't think he influenced the game too much. I feel he's a bit too lightweight for these type of games, maybe it's confirmation bias at this point, but I see him get shrugged off the ball way too often. Honestly, I really want to see more from Pogba, particularly in this type of games. There's a bit of the Berbatov languidness about him, I don't see a lot of purpose or explosiveness to his game, which for a record signing and someone who, supposedly, was brought to be our playmaker and engine in the midfield is always a bit disappointing. The fullbacks issue is widely publicised, though honestly I didn't think Darmian was bad and I'd much rather have him over Blind on the left. Tony, as we all know, can't cross a ball to save his life, which is sad with the amount of time and space he's given every game.

Not a bad result, in all honesty, cut out one of the two mistakes and we'd have won it, we did more than enough to win the game.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

If you watch the first 3 games carefully, we conceded clear chances in any of them. The clean sheets distorted the picture.

Even the best defences will concede the odd chance. I think your expectations are unrealistic.

 

[Saad138]

Can anyone tell me why were we taking short corners when we got the tallest team in the league ?

 

[Treble]

Even the best defences will concede the odd chance. I think your expectations are unrealistic.

My point was that we were a bit lucky not to concede in the first 3 games. The clean sheets (combined with wishful thinking) created the impression that we are rock solid. Yesterday's problems didn't come out of the blue though. All the more as Stoke are a better team than Swansea and quite decent at their ground.

 

[ice-bionic red]

Didn't need to bring Herrera in.

 

[Still ill]

It was more an annoying result in that our defending was Sunday League stuff..

And someone should take our full backs and coach them into how to cross a ball.

This kind of defending will not win us many trophies...Back to the drawing room Jose...

That's where they keep the drawing board, presumably.

 

[Reynoldo]

Didn't need to bring Herrera in.

Ya I think the bottom line is we shouldn't have changed our team and tactics, its impossible to say for sure of course but had we kept the same team maybe we don't look so disjointed and offbeat which in turn keeps all our players on top of their game including Bailly and Jones. They still could have made the individual mistakes obviously but everyone looked a little off which might not have been the case with the same settled team.

 

[sunama]

Also wtf with us today with the short corners. We have scoring goals from corners and today most of our corners were short. Was this match a tribute to van gaal.

I think our confidence is low when it comes to long corners. So, to get around this, they are taking short corners.
We desperately need a left side winger/wingback. And Valencia cannot cross. He basically blasts the ball - hit and hope.
In any case, our 2 CBs were abysmal.

 

[sunama]

I hate it when Jose went on defense mode on away game when we actually can win it. Not a lost but felt like one.

He started the game defensively and we were up 2-1 as a result. But poor defending is something Jose cannot put into his calculations.
When we brought on the subs, he took off a defender and brought on 2 attackers (a 3rd attacker came on right at the end).
So Jose did not play as defensively as you think.

Our striker missing a tap in.
Leaked a couple of soft goals.
We conceded a goal immediately after we scored.
This is exactly the same sort of game we'd have lost or drawn last season and we appear to be reverting to what we did last season.

I hope on Tuesday we can hammer (score 4 or more goals) our CL opponents, because we can't afford to become goal shy.

 

[sunama]

Par for course coming back off a break.

We should not be thinking this way.
All our rivals (except LFC) won their games. They came back from the international break firing on all cylinders, but our players come back jaded? This makes no sense.
We need to be coming back from breaks with wins, not losses/draws.

 

[Litch]

Even the best defences will concede the odd chance. I think your expectations are unrealistic.

Agree.

 

[manc-in-exile]

I used to love Mark hughes as a player but this is the final straw. He is a miserable, bitter, b**tard. Hope he gets them relegated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...sed-mark-hughes-handshake-stoke-manager-told/

 

[minoo-utd]

Wasn't Herrera game at all.

 

[Feed Me]

We aren't going to win every game and we tend to struggle a lot at Stoke now, so it's a decent point and we move on to some winnable games against Everton at home and Saints away. Both have started the season averagely and we need to be turning both over, no excuses.

But, being greedy, yesterday was frustrating because both goals were so avoidable. The first was a litany of silly errors while Jones has to be stronger after De Gea makes a world class save.

Thankfully, I think Mourinho is going to be quite cutthroat in pursuit of excellence and it's a chance for Smalling to displace one of the current starters - probably Bailly, who played with real rashness yesterday.

 

[EverReddy]

I used to love Mark hughes as a player but this is the final straw. He is a miserable, bitter, b**tard. Hope he gets them relegated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...sed-mark-hughes-handshake-stoke-manager-told/

weirdest thing when he went from us to chelsea. Totally unexpected - I was like WTF?

 

[djdhrubs]

we laboured a little to create chances and work Butland. Our final ball was very poor at times and yet we still scored twice.

our defending cost us the game and you'd hope this game was a one off

hopefully Shaw will sort out left back and can stay fit

we are short of one flair player to create something out of nothing or a winger who can pick out team mates

Yup. Pretty much all our problems in a nutshell.

 

[Dec9003]

I'm not really surprised we didn't get the win.
We're not a perfect team that are going to win every game, there is still a hell of a lot of work to do.
Stoke have always been a bogey team, and coming off the internationals it was always going to be difficult.
I think we gave them far too much respect though, they were the better side because we let them be.
I still believe Mata should be starting every league game, we tried to play defensive but our defence looked as dodgy as Liverpools does.
That said we're still top of the league (on goal difference) whereas four matches in last season other big teams started to peel away from us.
Onto the champions league now, let's hope for a better result on Tuesday.

 

[James Peril]

It was an average game with a crap result, but not very unexpected to be honest. It was the game after an International break and that is always going to harm the best team with the most capped players. I am sure Stoke had a few players out for games as well, but it is always easier to run and kick when you are jaded, compared to showing that 10% extra technical ability when you done with 270 minutes in one week. Stoke have inferior players, but they will always be able to run just as much as our players based on motivation.
How fans and media are forgetting the impact of the mid-week break is quite strange, it explains a lot. Real Madrid drew Levante at home and FC Bayern lost away to Hoffenheim this Saturday, does not paint any picture but certainly gives some backing.

Some observations;

Bailly was not great yesterday and made a big mistake (actually two) for their first goal, but he was clearly suffering after a knock in the beginning of the match. He looked strange for the rest of the game, it seemed like he didn't want the ball for the next 20 minutes - and in the second half it looked like he had a stroke when touching the ball at one point. Something was up, I am not sure why Mourinho didn't sub him off. Without that tackle he got, he would not have done such a terrible job on 1-0.

Lukaku scored a lucky goal after missing the first shot (which he would have been slaughter for had he not scored the rebound) - and he should have scored when Martial put in the cross. Not an absolute sitter, but this is why he is brought in - to score those decisive goals when we need them the most. This is was separates the best from the second-best, if you want to last at United and win lots of trophies, you need to be the best. Not bashing him for this miss, there will be many more, but right now I am not very excited with Lukaku. He brings enormous strength and great runs down the corridors, but he brings very little in terms of passing and play. The best strikers bring a lot more, hopefully he will develop this the next few years.

Typical hangover-game with an expected result, but I am very annoyed that Martial did not start. He was not called-up by France, was fit and raring to go, Rashford was clearly jaded after playing for England a few days earlier. Why not start Martial and sub Rashford into the game if/when needed? Basic, basic stuff and the same goes for Juan Mata. He has started three games (wins) and did not play for Spain, why not play him against Stoke when he is fit and rested?

DDG - 7 (Enormous save before the corner that lead to the 2nd goal, could have done better for the actual goal)
Darmian - 6 (Great run that freed Mkhitaryan for our second goal, did well not to pass down the corridor, made the chance happen)
Bailly - 5 (Poor defending on the first goal, but clearly suffering from an early knock - should have been subbed)
Jones - 5 (Terrible defending for the second goal, looked like he slipped when trying to interfere. Just not at his best)
Valencia - 5 (Good engine, just not doing the right stuff when presented with opportunities in attack. Weak cross and decision-making)
Matic - 5 (Seemed tired and was 1 yard behind, as opposed to 1 yard ahead for all his first three games)
Herrera - 5 (Good to have him back and smart to play him given he was rested, but lacked match sharpness - which is no surprise)
Pogba - 6 (Controls the game and has a lot of involvements, but just lacked the sharpness due to tons of games lately)
Rashford - 6 (Jaded, should not have started. Some good work and a shot that almost freed Lukaku (offside), but not crisp at all
Mkhitaryan - 6 (He tried and he was OK, but not his best game. Good assist, even though the pass came frustratingly late. Almost off!)
Lukaku - 6 (Scored a lucky goal after a big miss and squandered a shot to become the hero. Think we will see a lot of those performances this season)

Lingard and Mata did not do anything when they came on, Martial looked pretty good and should have started the game.

 

[Pyro19]

It wasn't as bad a performance as people make it out to be. We scored 2 goals and got done in by 2 set pieces which was the only blemish on a decent performance.

Regarding the poor attack, I wait for the day when we get proper fullbacks on both the left and right wing. Pretty sure it's gonna transform our attacking game considerably.

For all the ground valencia covered, Martial gave THAT cross for Lukaku within minutes of coming on which was better than anything Valencia delivered the entire game. I don't think any top team plays with fullbacks as poor in attack as we do.