Post PSG Analysis and the Big Problem with Martial

[TrueRed1999]

So after having a few days to absorb that loss, I don't think it was as bad now as it seemed. The first half was inexcusable and been the mirror of United performances at home throughout the season, we were extremely lucky to equalize in the manner we did but you take that in games especially with Fred who should have been sent off earlier. Our own downfall was caused with us not being able to take advantage of those missed opportunities by our strikers who should have easily scored twice.

Fred should have been subbed no doubt about it, that falls on Ole's head surely. However, I didn't think Fred had a bad game but was unlucky in the fact that PSG were gunning for him to get sent off going down in the manner they were. There should be a new rule brought in for simulation that rolling about in the way some players do when they are not hurt but trying to persuade a referee to book/send off a player should warrant a suspension. That is on the only way to get rid of those disgusting players who make the game as shallow as it is currently.

And Anthony Martial has had probably the worst start to his entire career with him hardly scoring, trying and his attitude has been a joke. I would seriously just play Mason Greenwood as he looks to have the passion and desire to try at least. I don't mind a player missing an opportunity to score, it happens but when their body language and attitude is poor you have to start questioning the merit of the player. Anthony has all the talent in the world to step up to the next level however, his attitude lets him down and alot of ex-players have said that. I hope he proves me wrong as I really like the Martial we all saw towards the end of last season.

I think we will get some sort of result against RB next week however, Ole needs to get better at his subs and now he doesn't have another chance to mess things up. You know it is bad when players are screaming at him to makes subs. Firstly from Rashford who picked up an injury took 10/15 minutes to come off, should have been within minutes and then Bruno after the sending off. I hope we react properly against West Ham and lay the ground work for the knock out stages of the next round which will give Ole confidence with his team.

 

[Falcow]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

 

[RedFish]

Ole needs to go.

 

[TrueRed1999]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

I would give him a 6.5/7 out of 10 for his performance it was more the chances he missed which had been like that throughout the season and although playing people through his did try to take 2 defenders on and then when he couldn't get passed them he kind of just gave up. How many years had Martial been here now 4-5? Cavani is much older than him but runs all over the pitch to try get the ball back, I am not saying Martial needs to do this but that is the right attitude to have.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

One of the biggest issues we've had for years is that we simply do not create enough. A good to great football team would create more because missing chances is part and parcel of the game.

I see the same problem every year - we're always lamenting missed chances in most games.

 

[El Zoido]

The first half was not “inexcusable”, we started slow for about the first 15 minutes. After we equalised we were marginally the better team in the first half. Bruno should have scored when he was put through. And we dominated the second half, until their fluke goal.I don’t know how it can ever be healthy when the club and manager is criticised this heavily for simply losing a game of football. This is PSG we’re talking about, we went toe to toe with them once again, we could have won this game 3-1 and nobody would have said it was unjust. We just lost a game of football, it happens. But because it’s Man Utd and because it’s Ole, we have to tear it apart piece by piece. It’s so tiresome following this club, and it’s because of the fanbase not because of the manager.

 

[elmo]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

It says a lot that yesterday was probably his best game of the season so far.

He's been awfully off the pace.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Martial is a 1 in 3 forward. Never a good enough ratio to lead a teams attack if they want to win leagues.

 

[TrueRed1999]

The first half was not “inexcusable”, we started slow for about the first 15 minutes. After we equalised we were marginally the better team. Bruno should have scored when he was put through. I don’t know how it can ever be healthy when the club and manager is criticised this heavily for simply losing a game of football. This is PSG we’re talking about, we went toe to toe with them once again, we could have won this game 3-1 and nobody would have said it was unjust. We just lost a game of football, it happens. But because it’s Man Utd and because it’s Ole, we have to tear it apart piece by piece. It’s so tiresome following this club, and it’s because of the fanbase not because of the manager.

If you read my post I said it wasn't as bad at first seemed and the loss was caused more towards us not being able to score than Fred getting sent off. And I think you need to calm down football is a game that consists of many opinions too. Just because you don't agree and haven't read what I put initially properly isn't my fault. And I said about PSG rolling about to get Fred sent off but Ole should ALSO take the blame for his timing of subs which were a joke and not for the first time as well. And it wasn't 15 minutes it was least 30 minutes PSG dominated that first half we were EXTREMELY lucky to score that equalizer, we came out much better in the second half but should have subbed Fred at least 10 minutes into the game when you could see the PSG players were more likely instructed to try get him sent off.

Once we missed the chances we did and that any other great players in the game would easily have scored too, Cavani was very unlucky would have been a nice goal. But after those chances had come and gone and then Fred was sent off the game was virtually over. Ole has been given great credit when we have won and against the odds which he deserves but if your saying he shouldn't take the brunt of the criticism for his lack of judgement in taking players off when he should have and that goes for players signaling him to make subs or for them to come off due to injury then you are at a loss. Sir Alex was the same he was just praised every game, he made mistakes but made them less than every manager which is why he was the greatest but to say no one is allowed to point out and say actually you should have done this better/quicker then what is the point of watching. I give credit where I SEE it and my opinion on WHERE the blame or what needs to improved by the Manager/Players when it is deserved.

Also the PSG game could have gone either way with 11 vs 11 but trying to go for the equaliser which was great to see ended up costing us like it normally does. Good attitude to have by the players which comes from the manager but the sub timings cost us against PSG. If it was 11 vs 11 I could have seen us battle for a draw as our shooting just wasn't there. But just a Fans Opinion.

 

[TrueRed1999]

Martial is a 1 in 3 forward. Never a good enough ratio to lead a teams attack if they want to win leagues.

Exactly I like Martial but if we are to proper compete then maybe just play Mason up front or Start Cavani.

 

[UmbroDays]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

Whilst I agree Martial response is overly bad (but he should be criticised) point 1 is utter BS and I can't believe its being spouted on here so much.

When I read the thread and saw that Rashford gifted them possession, I thought literally in his own half or even box - as I missed the goal. When I watched the replay, he was damn near the touchline in THEIR half and there was about 30-45 seconds from him losing the ball to them putting it in the net.

That was not Rashford's fault, it's just football. We always try and blame xyz and forget that things like this just happen in football. It happens to every team, every league, every country.

Martial will be fine, just let the season playout. He's having a slow start yes, but there are at least 40 games to go this season and we're far from done. This forum is amazing but fecking heck it's sometimes overly critical at things

 

[Trequarista10]

It's the same old thing with Martial. He's good on the ball, not good off the ball. His lack of movement is painful.

 

[2 man midfield]

It's not on Ole, on another day we'd have killed the game off. It's football, it happens.

 

[El Jefe]

One of the biggest issues we've had for years is that we simply do not create enough. A good to great football team would create more because missing chances is part and parcel of the game.

I see the same problem every year - we're always lamenting missed chances in most games.

That is probably true but isn't applicable to the game the other day. We created more than enough to win the game. This was a CL tie against PSG at the end of the day. We created nothing last time we played them at OT compared to Wednesday's game.

 

[GenZRed]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

Somebody wrote in another thread that the Martial shot you're referring to was a bad shot. Personally I think it was a great shot.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Martial didn't play badly, he just missed 2 good chances and ultimately that's what football is about.

Really no point trying to over analyse anything more, games like that happen.

 

[Leftback99]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

It's a big overreaction because of the missed chances. I'm pretty sure Neymar and Mbappe missed good chances in the last game in Paris. Martial is statistically a good finisher.

People naturally want to blame one reason as to why we lost the game. Its seems to be either Ole or Martial here. Strangely Fred seems to be getting off lightly.

 

[KennyBurner]

Martial didn't play badly, he just missed 2 good chances and ultimately that's what football is about.

Really no point trying to over analyse anything more, games like that happen.

its so simple...we were the better team for the most part before the red card. The only take away is that we are better with cavani leading the line. I think Ive finally given up on Martial as our future striker. Cavani has really shown me personally what we have been missing from a striker all these years. Also martial is better creatively on the left than Rashford which also solves another problem of ours.

 

[Adam-Utd]

its so simple...we were the better team for the most part before the red card. The only take away is that we are better with cavani leading the line. I think Ive finally given up on Martial as our future striker. Cavani has really shown me personally what we have been missing from a striker all these years. Also martial is better creatively on the left than Rashford which also solves another problem of ours.

I actually think Martial is better at holding the ball, but he doesn't run the line like Cavani, and in the box clearly Cavani's movement is superior.

I quite like Martial coming from the left anyway, he gets on the ball more often. He really does need to find his shooting boots though.

 

[KennyBurner]

I actually think Martial is better at holding the ball, but he doesn't run the line like Cavani, and in the box clearly Cavani's movement is superior.

I quite like Martial coming from the left anyway, he gets on the ball more often. He really does need to find his shooting boots though.

And yet Ive come to realize that Cavani doing this makes too much of a difference. Against PSG he was everywhere across the line and I actually like that.

The difference between the 2 is that Cavani likes to force the issue/get involved whereas martial is too passive for a forward leading the line. Its just his style and Ive come to accept that.

Then again Martial is too important to anything attacking that we do so I will continuously back him till its clear we have something better.

 

[red_de_pologne]

do people realise he played as a LW in that game? Why the comparisons to Cavani?

 

[Jericho]

To me he's always had an issue of not being very aware of his surroundings and he just seems more comfortable with the ball at his feet and the defenders ahead of him.

 

[Jonno]

So after having a few days to absorb that loss, I don't think it was as bad now as it seemed.

I never did think it was a "bad" loss. Most level-headed fans didn't knee-jerk at full time. Just the fans that tend to lose their heads as soon as we concede a goal.

It was an even game, we played quite well, we could have won & we didn't. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

One of the biggest issues we've had for years is that we simply do not create enough. A good to great football team would create more because missing chances is part and parcel of the game.

I see the same problem every year - we're always lamenting missed chances in most games.

We had 12 shots while PSG had 13 shots. We created enough chances and they are actually quality chances.

 

[Bilbo]

The first half was not “inexcusable”, we started slow for about the first 15 minutes. After we equalised we were marginally the better team in the first half. Bruno should have scored when he was put through. And we dominated the second half, until their fluke goal.I don’t know how it can ever be healthy when the club and manager is criticised this heavily for simply losing a game of football. This is PSG we’re talking about, we went toe to toe with them once again, we could have won this game 3-1 and nobody would have said it was unjust. We just lost a game of football, it happens. But because it’s Man Utd and because it’s Ole, we have to tear it apart piece by piece. It’s so tiresome following this club, and it’s because of the fanbase not because of the manager.

Its very unhealthy, and enormously tiresome, but it doesn't have to be. I honestly don't know what's happened to this forum over the last couple of years.

 

[Foxbatt]

We always play better when he plays. I am as shocked as anyone about his missed chances. Normally he is very good in converting his chances. I thought Bruno played that ball a bit late but why on Earth Martial put it over the bar, I do not know he could even comprehend it.

 

[MattofManchester]

We always play better when he plays.

Myth. Well, myth if we're talking this season. He's just there due to a lack of options. We had one of our best games against Southampton and he wasn't even involved. He's been terrible this season and deserves to be dropped.

This obsession with forcing the issue with players who never seem to peak is baffling.
He's never going to be good enough for a long term role at this club. He had one very good purple patch in his 6 years at this club. And it was a time when it showed massively in his demeanor. The difference was evident. Now that he's back to his old self, it's obvious what to expect again.

He was my favourite before, but when it comes to Manchester United, I've learned not to have favourites, because frankly, we can do much better than some these players.

 

[Grande]

its so simple...we were the better team for the most part before the red card. The only take away is that we are better with cavani leading the line. I think Ive finally given up on Martial as our future striker. Cavani has really shown me personally what we have been missing from a striker all these years. Also martial is better creatively on the left than Rashford which also solves another problem of ours.

I think Cavani definitively puts some of Martials weaknesses in a glaring relieff. Arguments like ‘he is proactive, it’s just the tactics’ or ‘he is mobile, he just moves effectively, like a natural striker’ gets shown the door. Knowing Mourinho and Solskjær each has tried to teach him tactical creativity for four years, he is definitely a slow learner on that subject in particular.

Then again, it’s worth to remember his goal output after the restart, and it’s worth noticing that, in this very bad patch of form, he is actually getting to more chances for both United and France (which is part of what’s frustrating). So it might be that he actually is learning. If he can string together his confidence, his ground technique and improved positional movement skill all at once, he might be a pretty neat weapon to have in the arsenal (forgive the puns).

 

[tenpoless]

Martial was very promising when he came here and he still is. A promising talent but not a great one. But if we cling on to the promise, after 6 years at the club (and probably 3-4 more), we could end up in disappointment and regret that we didn't look for a better striker to compete/rotate with him. Relying on him alone for our CF position in the future is plain stupid. Cavani is not a long term solution as well.

Remember Phil Jones and Cleverley. Jones was the new Duncan Edwards, Cleverley the new Scholes but when their careers and performances took turn for the worse, we're in a massive trouble. We relied on them so much. Only after they have no more use for us do we think of "what if we replaced them sooner or brought better players in? surely these rebuilding process would be much easier, the team in a better spot, not having to struggle to sell meme players, etc". Never rely on an unreliable player that after years at the club never seemed to improve his consistency (Pogba is another example). Okay he's got a very good dribbling skills but he's not a game changer nor a reliable goal scorer nor a consistent performer, it's unfair to treat him as one.

He might be very good for other teams but for United, you should compare him to Rooney, RvP, RvN and all other great strikers before him. Ones that were almost always reliable in the CF department before their decline. At this age, Martial should be around his peak. It's only smart we look for better players/talents to assist both him and the future of the club. CF position is not a joke. United is not a club that do well with Bobby no goals type of strikers.

 

[UmbroDays]

Myth. Well, myth if we're talking this season. He's just there due to a lack of options. We had one of our best games against Southampton and he wasn't even involved. He's been terrible this season and deserves to be dropped.

Are you conveniently forgetting the fact that we were goalless until Cavani came on; and before came on guess what? We missed chances - just like we did against PSG.

 

[eire-red]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

You just can't miss those chances he did at this level. When you put into context his season as a whole, I think it just has people questioning even more whether he'll ever be the player we want.

He did good to create those chances as you said, but playing as a striker for United you're judged on your ability to bury those chances. Naturally, people then start to question his bottle, mentality, attitude etc. If you can't rely on him in those decisive moments, then that's the end of it. Squad player for sure, but it's those moments that win you titles.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Its very unhealthy, and enormously tiresome, but it doesn't have to be. I honestly don't know what's happened to this forum over the last couple of years.

It's not just this forum to be fair, I think it's an issue with youth in general. Every fan base has this issue right now, people are just massively impatient and expect instant results.

I think it doesn't help that we keep being linked to other managers like Pochettino also, they feel like they'll miss out on him because Ole is staying in the job. As soon as he has a wobble its "that's it SACK NOW"

 

[bsCallout]

Martial has had a terrible start to the season but I am surprised by the reaction to his performance the other night. I thought he had a good game evidenced by the following;

1. Played Rashdord through on goal with a great ball only for Rashford to make an absaloute bollocks of it, gifting possession to PSG who scored from it.
2. Set up our goal by taking a good shot and forcing keeper to make a very good save.
3. Played Bruno through on goal with great through ball, Bruno tried to pass instead of shoot for some reason.
4. Played Cavani through on goal with another brillant through pass. Cavani hit the bar.

He also drew a yellow card from one of the defenders, maybe even 2 cards actually?

I would go as far as to say he was our most creative player the other night?

I've thought this every game hes had a 'bad game'.

His contribution to the team is completely overshadowed by his poor scoring form.

It seems we have too many missing decent chances.

I generally think Martial offers more than Rashford but Rashford seems to be able to produce more 'moments' that overshadow his own lack of effort when he loses a ball for example.

 

[Remember the geese]

Whether the PSG players were trying to get Fred sent off is irrelevant. He was dismissed due to human error.

 

[MattofManchester]

Are you conveniently forgetting the fact that we were goalless until Cavani came on; and before came on guess what? We missed chances - just like we did against PSG.

Are you conveniently forgetting what happened after Cavani came on? We scored two goals, and our ability to create chances went up tenfold.

For me, what made Martial special last season was that he wanted to impose himself on games. His relationship with Bruno seemed to spark a real fire in him and he wanted to be on the ball and everywhere.

What, for me, separates the likes of Cavani and Bruno from the rest of the squad is that mentality. Whether good or bad, they will force and impose themselves to be as involved as possible in every aspect of the game throughout.

Martial had that during a hot streak, and then returned to the norm towards the season's end. This didn't start this season.

Martial does not have that mentality and never will. At least consistently. There are players in our team who are more than content to go missing for long periods of the game only to pop up with moments. And that's what you remember. The moments. I have not, and at 25, I probably will never see enough from him.
It's evident in the fact that he's shown no improvement in his game in 6 years of being here.

He's a player for a top 6 team, but he's not a player that is ever going to win you titles, and for us to push past that and contend for CL titles.

I will never change my opinion on that.

This club has an obsession over hyping up players to be World Class when they're not. Martial is not. He never has been. He never will be. Capable of World Class moments, yes. But on the whole, we can do much, much better, and as Manchester United, we should be looking to do much, much better.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Martial is a 1 in 3 forward. Never a good enough ratio to lead a teams attack if they want to win leagues.

I wish he was a 1 in 3 forward.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I honestly don't know what's happened to this forum over the last couple of years.

What's happened is that we've gone from trusting the manager per default (for the vast majority of posters) to a situation where a significant (and very active, vocal) segment are convinced the manager is no good and needs to be replaced.

In the former situation it was possible to discuss managerial calls/decisions without being perceived as supporting either side in a perpetual, black and white "in or out" discussion.

In the current situation, you'll be mostly ignored (or misunderstood) if you don't take up a stance (in or out).

 

[Jeppers7]

One of the biggest issues we've had for years is that we simply do not create enough. A good to great football team would create more because missing chances is part and parcel of the game.

I see the same problem every year - we're always lamenting missed chances in most games.

This.

 

[AltiUn]

It's not just this forum to be fair, I think it's an issue with youth in general. Every fan base has this issue right now, people are just massively impatient and expect instant results.

I think it doesn't help that we keep being linked to other managers like Pochettino also, they feel like they'll miss out on him because Ole is staying in the job. As soon as he has a wobble its "that's it SACK NOW"

This is a different conversation but it really doesn't stem from the youth, it stems from older generations having expections of young people to have careers, houses and families by 25, this trickles down and affects the mindset of Millenials.

 

[Bilbo]

What's happened is that we've gone from trusting the manager per default (for the vast majority of posters) to a situation where a significant (and very active, vocal) segment are convinced the manager is no good and needs to be replaced.

In the former situation it was possible to discuss managerial calls/decisions without being perceived as supporting either side in a perpetual, black and white "in or out" discussion.

In the current situation, you'll be mostly ignored (or misunderstood) if you don't take up a stance (in or out).

Agree with this. The Sack or Keep thread has probably been the worst thing to happen to the Café. Its made everything polarised, and everybody needs to be right. Theres no doubt that there are a number of posters on here that are pissed off when we win.