Potential CB Options

Polar

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Definitely incorrect; he's played 347 matches for Real. Having said that, his injury record isn't great; he's only played 30 or more league matches in a season twice in his career. On the other hand, those two were his last two seasons, and he has definitely had less injury issues in the last few years than he had when he was younger.
200 matches is 10 years? That either can’t be right, or one hell of a red flag.
Let’s say it’s between 200-300. Anyway I don’t expect a 18y old guy to play regular on RM. I suppose it took him some years to become a regular RM player. So I don’t understand the red flag thing.
 
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Let’s say it’s between 200-300. Anyway I don’t expect a 18y old guy to play regular on RM. I suppose it took him some years to become a regular RM player. So I don’t understand the red flag thing.
average of 20 games per season is Phil Jones type stats. That would clearly be a red flag.
 

Polar

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average of 20 games per season is Phil Jones type stats. That would clearly be a red flag.
Gerard and Ramos played around 500 matches in 15-20 years... Let’s say Varane started to be a regular RM player when he was 24/25 (same as VVD when he joined PL)?
 
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Gerard and Ramos played around 500 matches in 15-20 years... Let’s say Varane started to be a regular RM player when he was 24/25 (same as VVD when he joined PL)?
he’s actually played 347 games. So I stand by my post. It’s either incorrect (which it was massively) or a colossal flag (which clearly it would be if he had only played 200 games in a decade).
 

DannyCAFC

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Don't think he has any red flag with regards to fitness. He obviously wasn't playing regularly when he first joined as an 18 year old. Had some injury problems afterwards but don't feel that's anything out of the ordinary for a 21-24 year old who's getting used to playing regular, demanding top-level football. His injury record has been pretty good the last 2-3 years.
 

Polar

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he’s actually played 347 games. So I stand by my post. It’s either incorrect (which it was massively) or a colossal flag (which clearly it would be if he had only played 200 games in a decade).
Still don’t understand the problem if 200 of these matches were played during his last 4-5y.

My point wasn’t number of games. But the fact that he have been in RM for 10y, been a regular for many seasons and won everything with the club.

You say 200ish games for the first team is massively wrong? Waiting for the right answer and the reference.
 

Jaxa

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I have a very bad feeling about Varane at United, i don't think it would end well, no real basis to that theory other than gut feeling, last time i watched him play was last seasons UCL campaign where he had a shocker,

I just don't feel he is the answer to our CB needs right now, not technically, fantastic player clearly but going from the heights of Madrid to winning all these trophies to a young Manchester United team who are in a transition period for hopefully not much longer but we are not a finished article yet.

I dunno, just a hunch, I am more on the Kounde & Konate train, young & hungry players ready to fight in a new young exciting team.
 

Polar

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I have a very bad feeling about Varane at United, i don't think it would end well, no real basis to that theory other than gut feeling, last time i watched him play was last seasons UCL campaign where he had a shocker,

I just don't feel he is the answer to our CB needs right now, not technically, fantastic player clearly but going from the heights of Madrid to winning all these trophies to a young Manchester United team who are in a transition period for hopefully not much longer but we are not a finished article yet.

I dunno, just a hunch, I am more on the Kounde & Konate train, young & hungry players ready to fight in a new young exciting team.
World class, professional and motivated players are always welcomed independent of age, as long as it’s not to many oldies. Cavani is a good example. Don’t mind having a very good experienced player in defence, midtfield and attack. He is 27y, not 32y.
 
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Watched the Leverkusen match this week after having a bet on it, and holy shit Tapsoba is so good.

His passing - especially those daisy cutters through the lines - is exceptional. He also dominated in the air, has a decent turn of pace for a big man and was great 1v1.

He's been getting more and more hype all season and I can definitely see why.

Maybe selling them Fosu-Mensah in such a quick, hassle free way will give us an easier route to the negotiating table for him?

Obligatory video:

 

Mylock

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What’s wrong with Varane? Isn’t he a better player than all options you mention?
An on-form Varane would be on top of the list, but he's been off form for the 18 months. I think we have seen the best of Varane; he's been on the top since he was 19, it's hard to keep it going. He has hit his peak and is on the way down, in my opinion.
 

Polar

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An on-form Varane would be on top of the list, but he's been off form for the 18 months. I think we have seen the best of Varane; he's been on the top since he was 19, it's hard to keep it going. He has hit his peak and is on the way down, in my opinion.
Agree we shouldn’t expect Varane to develop an even higher top-level, but he will likely find back to his top-level. Think it’s much about him needing a change and discover something new which is motivating.

Varane is only 27/28. I suppose prime time for CB’s are 27-31.Very surprised if Varane starts his decline already now. If so he must be one of the first world class CB to do so.

Most professional footballers want to stay in the game as long as possible; “the love of the game”; want to prove themselves. From time to time some world class players experience a situation which makes “the love of the game” disappear; football doesn’t make you happy anymore, example Bale who’s ambition was to win Ballon d’Or and who’s ambition was smashed in pieces. Varane is not there and he also seems like a very professional and reasonable person.
 

Bondi77

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My money is on Milenkovic if we buy anyone which I highly doubt.
He looks decent ,has good physique and pace and can score a goal but who is to say that Axel, Eric or Victor would not look good playing in the Serie A?
It is an absolute lottery buying defenders and hoping they fit into a new club and can adapt to the pace and frenzy of the Premier League.
 
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Still don’t understand the problem if 200 of these matches were played during his last 4-5y.

My point wasn’t number of games. But the fact that he have been in RM for 10y, been a regular for many seasons and won everything with the club.

You say 200ish games for the first team is massively wrong? Waiting for the right answer and the reference.
The number is literally in the post you quoted. :lol:

try Googling his name and number of games. Perhaps you might come across a site with the word wiki in the title.

It’s not an obscure reference - you can find it in less that 20 seconds. I’m not posting a reference you lazy feck.:D

if you had done this in the first place, we wouldn’t need to have this conversation.

200 or 347 is massively wrong.:lol:
 

Polar

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The number is literally in the post you quoted. :lol:

try Googling his name and number of games. Perhaps you might come across a site with the word wiki in the title.

It’s not an obscure reference - you can find it in less that 20 seconds. I’m not posting a reference you lazy feck.:D

if you had done this in the first place, we wouldn’t need to have this conversation.

200 or 347 is massively wrong.:lol:
I wrote 200ish because his exact number of matches on the first team wasn’t my point or relevant to my argument. The “Red Flag” issue was brought into the discussion later on.

If I really cared I could off course have written 229 (18) La Liga matches, but I’m uncertain how often these numbers are updated. If you also count different national and international cups, the number could be 347.

Sorry for insulting supporters very interested in match stats and with high standard in that regard.
 

AttackAttackAttack

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Doesn’t Varane crumble when he doesn’t have daddy Ramos next to him? That’s the impression I get whenever I see him play and have to be the leader.l and that’s my major concern with varane. At CB we are looking for a leader and looking for speed. Not sure how speedy varane is so idk if he would be the right fit even though it looks good on paper. I’m all for a fast cb even if he isn’t as tall. In games where we need the extra speed at the back which is most we are not very concerned about balls being pumped into the box. For the few games we are concerned about that we can always play Harry and Victor.
 

Tallis

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Varane is a top quality defender despite his mixed form over the last 6-8 months.
But somehow, I am not a big fan of signing 27-28th someone’s who have already achieved a lot in their career. There is always the exception in an Ibra, Ronaldo or Cavani but you have to be careful and assess if the guy still has the fire in the belly.
 

dev1l

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Varane is a top quality defender despite his mixed form over the last 6-8 months.
But somehow, I am not a big fan of signing 27-28th someone’s who have already achieved a lot in their career. There is always the exception in an Ibra, Ronaldo or Cavani but you have to be careful and assess if the guy still has the fire in the belly.
Agreed. I think he fits PSG more than us.
 

dev1l

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My money is on Milenkovic if we buy anyone which I highly doubt.
He looks decent ,has good physique and pace and can score a goal but who is to say that Axel, Eric or Victor would not look good playing in the Serie A?
It is an absolute lottery buying defenders and hoping they fit into a new club and can adapt to the pace and frenzy of the Premier League.
Fiorentina also play with 3 cbs and Milenkovic usually occupies RIght CB role.
 

Bogga

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Watched the Leverkusen match this week after having a bet on it, and holy shit Tapsoba is so good.

His passing - especially those daisy cutters through the lines - is exceptional. He also dominated in the air, has a decent turn of pace for a big man and was great 1v1.

He's been getting more and more hype all season and I can definitely see why.

Maybe selling them Fosu-Mensah in such a quick, hassle free way will give us an easier route to the negotiating table for him?

Obligatory video:

Never heard of the guy... What I do like about that video is that he seems to be calm and doesn't panic when under pressure. A bit of technique and being able to spot a pass...

But then, these videos can make Bebe look like the love child between Pele and Maradona.
 

croadyman

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I would be particularly happy with Varane, Kounde, Konate however maybe there is untapped potential in the likes of Milenkovic, Torres & Badiashile too. Will be honest I know absolutely nothing about this Tapsoba guy so cannot comment on his suitability at all.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I cannot believe anyone seriously suggesting Kounde as the solution. People moan about Lindelof in the air so why pick someone who wins less of their duels?

Konate I understand as he’s in the 99th percentile for aerials and is a solid ball carrier from defence.
 

ROFLUTION

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Can anyone do a filter on FM on which CBs are +1.88 meters and relevant (Ball playing, decent in positional awareness)? :D
 

andersj

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What are the worst centerbacks below 185 cm at the highest level (playing more than 100 games for a top 5 club in at top five league).

I guess the best ones must be Sergio Ramos, Thiago Silva, Fabio Cannavaro, Roberto Ayala and Carlos Puyol. In England the only shorty I can think of is Jagielka (did not play much in a top 5 team, but maybe Everton was when he was good?).

Who are the players that make us think it would be a huge problem?
 

BenitoSTARR

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What are the worst centerbacks below 185 cm at the highest level (playing more than 100 games for a top 5 club in at top five league).

I guess the best ones must be Sergio Ramos, Thiago Silva, Fabio Cannavaro, Roberto Ayala and Carlos Puyol. In England the only shorty I can think of is Jagielka (did not play much in a top 5 team, but maybe Everton was when he was good?).

Who are the players that make us think it would be a huge problem?
Make it simpler rather than worrying about worst think about who is the best?

Who would your top 5 current PL CBs be?
 

redrobed

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We’ve got Maguire for heading - pace should be the priority - I’f be happy with Ramos or Vvd. Ramos probably more realistic given the stingyness of our owners
 

andersj

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Make it simpler rather than worrying about worst think about who is the best?

Who would your top 5 current PL CBs be?
I dont think that is a good argument. Most CBs are tall. There is no denying that. So most good CBs are likely to be tall. Just like the five worst (o’shea, ajayi, koch, luiz maybe?).

That being said, I would probably put Thiago up there with the five best based on his influence at Chelsea. And he happens to be the only «short» CB I can remember.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I dont think that is a good argument. Most CBs are tall. There is no denying that. So most good CBs are likely to be tall. Just like the five worst (o’shea, ajayi, koch, luiz maybe?).

That being said, I would probably put Thiago up there with the five best based on his influence at Chelsea. And he happens to be the only «short» CB I can remember.
And so there must be a reason why most are tall? It’s an advantage in the PL.

So why go for a short inexperienced one in Kounde?
 

andersj

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And so there must be a reason why most are tall? It’s an advantage in the PL.
Are men better at investing than women? Probably not if you look at the data. But most fund managers are men. If a women breaks through despite of that stereotype, she is likely to be better and more hardworking. She has to be.

There is a stereotype related to playing CB that dates back to when the main attacker you where up against did not look at all like Salah, Sterling, Mane etc. That is why most centerbacks today usually have a similar profile. In my opinion, being agile is a lot more important.

Agility, brains and ability is a lot more important for a CB than inches. Yet, they are more difficult to assess. People prefer to put weight on stuff they can easily measure as it gives them confidence.

What people forget is that Cannvaro and Ayala was not only great because of a great leap. They were great because they were able to make sure they would not have to make that leap.

We should buy Kounde because he is an outstanding talent.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Are men better at investing than women? Probably not if you look at the data. But most fund managers are men. If a women breaks through despite of that stereotype, she is likely to be better and more hardworking. She has to be.

There is a stereotype related to playing CB that dates back to when the main attacker you where up against did not look at all like Salah, Sterling, Mane etc. That is why most centerbacks today usually have a similar profile. In my opinion, being agile is a lot more important.

Agility, brains and ability is a lot more important for a CB than inches. Yet, they are more difficult to assess. People prefer to put weight on stuff they can easily measure as it gives them confidence.

What people forget is that Cannvaro and Ayala was not only great because of a great leap. They were great because they were able to make sure they would not have to make that leap.

We should buy Kounde because he is an outstanding talent.
You know that’s a completely unrelated abs pointless comparison? Worse it’s really lazy.

In your opinion but the reality suggests overwhelmingly otherwise and Kounde isn’t the solution to our problems. He’s not dominant in the air and he’s not going to be that aggressive CB people are pining for.

I like Lindelof for example yet he’s not go the obvious qualities so it’s nothing to do with that.

Any suggestion that Kounde is a good buy because Cannavaro was short is laughable. Did he play in the PL?

Kounde is the next in a long line of French CBs that people pine after because they saw one video of him scoring a great goal and now all of a sudden they’d spend £70m on him etc.

Kounde is no better than Bailly at the same age. He doesn’t solve any of the issues in our defence and isn’t even the best CB at Sevilla let alone good enough to take us to a title.
 

andersj

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Any suggestion that Kounde is a good buy because Cannavaro was short is laughable.
Glad I did not suggest Kounde would be a good buy because Cannavaro was short then. Find another strawman and enjoy it. I’m out.

Bye!

Oh, one last thing, it is so funny reading that you appear to be okey with buying Konate, arguing about his stats in the air (a player who cant get a game even when his team play with three CBs), but suggest that people who like Kounde has just watched a video of him on YT.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Glad I did not suggest Kounde would be a good buy because Cannavaro was short then. Find another strawman and enjoy it. I’m out.

Bye.
Me straw man? You’re talking about male and female investors?

Your implication was that a short player was once a world class CB and that Kounde doesn’t have to be tall to be a great CB. I agree he doesn’t if he stays in
La Liga but he does need to have that physical ability to do it for United.

Why bring up Cannavaro if not to try and say short CBs can be good?
 

Adnan

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Adnan

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Glad I did not suggest Kounde would be a good buy because Cannavaro was short then. Find another strawman and enjoy it. I’m out.

Bye!

Oh, one last thing, it is so funny reading that you appear to be okey with buying Konate, arguing about his stats in the air (a player who cant get a game even when his team play with three CBs), but suggest that people who like Kounde has just watched a video of him on YT.
Konate hasn't been dropped by Leipzig but isn't match fit to start games at the moment according to Nagelsmann. Which tbf is the correct decision with the amount of football he's missed.

You're also entitled to your opinion about who you want as a CB and have made some good recommendations which I agree with. But if you analyse RB Leipzig in the UCL with and without Konate this season and I think it would be fair to say without Konate playing all 6 group games they would've likely have been KO'd at the group stage with how shaky Upamecano and Klostermann have performed.
 

KD6-3.7

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I’m curious to see how other teams value their CB’s after we spent £80M on Maguire. I said at the time when we paid that much for him that it could set a bad precedent and other teams will try to fleece us. Probably best to avoid the PL for any potential CB target.

we also really need two for that position because I still don’t think Maguire is good enough for this level.
 

Adnan

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I would personally be happy if we signed a hot prospect for the CB role who ticks all the boxes and 20 year old Loic Bade from RC Lens is exactly that player IMO. We could also sign Sergio Ramos on a free transfer for the short term which will allow Bade to develop without too much pressure in the short-term.

 
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Sea-Cow

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I would personally be happy if we signed a hot prospect for the CB role who ticks all the boxes and 20 year old Loic Bade from RC Lens is exactly that player IMO. We could also sign Sergio Ramos on a free transfer for the short term which will allow Bade to develop without too much pressure in the short-term.

How tall is he? He looks like more of a Cannavaro rather than a Vidic.
 

passing-wind

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Me straw man? You’re talking about male and female investors?

Your implication was that a short player was once a world class CB and that Kounde doesn’t have to be tall to be a great CB. I agree he doesn’t if he stays in
La Liga but he does need to have that physical ability to do it for United.


Why bring up Cannavaro if not to try and say short CBs can be good?
Kounde being short for a centre back goes against what is commonly perceived a good height for a defender. So the balance is he has to be outstanding in the criteria of his ability, to have the confidence of surety in his position.

He's known as one of the best prospects in Europe. He's been identified as one of the best defenders in the La Liga at 22. He has ignited more than just 'interest' from our own domestic leagues best with City having tabled a failed bid. The speculative element of him being good or not good based on height alone seems to diminish when you contrast it to the happenings in the reality of the game. I personally don't get all the hype about the leagues presence for defenders the most proficient centre halves have all more recently come OUTSIDE of the league.

The miracle in finding a partner for Maguire is not only orientated around height because he's also slow so the new signing needs to be athletic, good positional sense have all the tackling fundamentals needed to defend against the run of play and judging by everything we have to make a calculated estimate Kounde fits the bill.
 
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