Pre Premier League Draft Round 1 - Chesterlestreet vs Tuppet

Who would win in the following draft game with all players at their peak?

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

Indnyc

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This is a Pre Premier League draft from 1971/72 to 1991/92 where managers assemble their squads by selecting players based on their playing performance during this time period only. Performances that fall outside this time period should not be considered. Neither should the players performance for their country/international tournaments be considered. As in any team, team tactics and balance also play a part.

Hence please carefully consider the abovesaid factors and evaluate the merits of both teams before voting for the team which in your opinion is likelier to win the match.

Team Chesterlestreet



VS.

Team Tuppet



Tactics Team Chesterlestreet

Starting XI

GK: Paul Cooper. Style: Shot stopper.

RB: Paul Reaney. Style: Balanced.

CB: Willie Miller. Style: Conservative/box specialist.

CB: Gordon McQueen. Style: Conservative/aerial specialist.

LB: Arthur Albiston. Style: Balanced.

DM: Remi Moses. Style: Conservative.

CM: Alan Mullery. Style: Hard working allrounder (on the conservative side here).

AM: Liam Brady. Style: Playmaker/free roaming attacking midfielder.

RW: Jesper Olsen. Style: Fairly orthodox.

LW: Peter Lorimer. Style: Unorthodox/drifts inside.

CF: John Aldridge. Style: Finisher.

Tactics Team Tuppet

We'll be playing in a 4-4-2 partnership. Up front we have a typical creator-scorer duo with Francis Lee instructed to stay on the shoulder of last defender to utilize his pace. Franny was a brilliant goal scorer, golden boot winner in 71-72 with 33 goals in league. Beardsley would be playing as a withdrawn striker, often drop deep to carry the ball forward using his brilliant dribbling and technique.

In the central midfield we have Murdoch & Ball. Murdoch would be playing as the central playmaker of our team. A meterenomic passer and combative ball winner he would be the tasked with running the game for our side. Along side him Alan ball with his exceptional tenacity and technique would be playing in a box to box role. Ball's defensive work rate as well as ability to pop up with important goals/crosses is very important for our midfield. We have sought to recreate the famous Auld-Murdoch partnership and Ball fits perfectly here.

On wings we have combination of Johnstone and Sharpe. Jinky johnstone is probably one of the best player on the park, an exceptional winger who was arguably the best player in Britain in early 70s. One of the greatest dribbler of all time, he is given a free role here, where he could chose to provide chances to Lee & Beardsley while also able to cut inside to finish some chances himself. On left side Lee Sharpe would provide classic wingmanship. Blessed with great pace and accurate cross Sharpe compliments Johnstone perfectly.

In central defense we have partnership of Hansen - England. Hansen is arguably the best CB in the draft. He would be in his usual ball playing role. Mike England as a towering center half compliments Hansen perfectly. Together this partnership should be able to deal with threats both on deck and in the air.

In fullback positions we have Leeds duo of Terry Cooper and Paul Madeley. Cooper was a defender full of innovation. His fitness, skill and an ability to cross the ball meant he could perform a devastating overlap down the left flank. On the right side we have another Leeds legend in Madeley. While a player without profile who could play anywhere on the pitch he was immensely talented, racking up 711 appearances for an excellent Leeds vintage while winning Leeds player of the year in 76 and getting 3 times in PFA team of the year. He job is to stay balanced with a defense first attitude as in Jinky we have a very attacking presence in that wing. Finally in goals we are sporting Pat Bonner who is arguably the finest Irish GK. He won multiple leagues and cup titles and finished 17th in Ballon D'or in 89.
 

Tuppet

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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Johnstone and Murdoch seem to be at end of careers and wasn't Alan Ball a wide midfielder? Not sure about that midfield.
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Johnstone was 27 years old starting 71-72 season, he was at the peak of his career and was regarded one of the best players in Britain. In the next 3 seasons he played a crucial role in winning 3 league titles, 2 scottish cup and reaching semifinal of European cup two times in 71-72 & 73-74. He was by no means at the end of his career.

From the Celtic wiki -
By 1970 Celtic fans could boast that their man was the greatest player in Britain, eclipsing even the likes of Best, Charlton, Bremner and Ball. He proved it in the 1970 European Cup Semi final when he tore the much vaunted Leeds United defence apart over two legs. He was on song at Hampden in the second leg and tormented the great Leeds & English World Cup defenders, Charlton, Hunter and Cooper. This earned Celtic a place in the 1970 European Cup Final but they went down 2-1 to Feyenoord of Rotterdam. The Dutch side had a tight reign on Jimmy that night and he could not make an impression which was a terrible disappointment to everyone at Celtic.

At this time Rothmans selected a British best eleven side from a panel of experts and Jimmy was chosen in 1970, 1971 and 1972 which was a considerable achievement and showed that his talents were fully appreciated south of the border.

Jimmy was always the man for the big occasion and could be relied upon in the heat of Celtic v Rangers games. For a small man he became famous for his headed goals against Rangers. Twice at Ibrox he score the winning goal from headers. In 1971 with seconds remaining he out-jumped the Rangers defence to loop in a header for a 3-2 win. In 1973 he stooped to head a cross from Davie Hay past the lumbering figure of Peter McCloy. Jimmy often kept his best performances for Rangers games despite the heavy tackling and physical punishment often meted out to him.

The 1971 Scottish Cup Final replay is remembered as the 'Jimmy Johnstone final'. Stein gave him another roving role, and with his close control and ability to beat a man he was instrumental in Celtic's 2-1 victory in a game where the scoreline did not remotely represent Celtic's superiority. One year later, in the 1972 Scottish Cup Final. he was on song yet again when Celtic beat Hibs by a record 6-1 scoreline. At this time when Jimmy was on form the feeling was he was unstoppable. However he could not breach the Inter Milan defence in the 1972 European Cup semi final and Celtic lost on penalties.

There was the occasional disappointment and he was carried off injured in the 1971 League Cup Final against Partick Thistle early in the match after a bad tackle by future Celtic team mate Ronnie Glavin. Celtic went down 4-1 and it is thought had Jimmy remained fit on the field then it may have been a different result.

As the 1970's wore on Jimmy was still a regular in Stein's team but could be left out on occasions mostly through ill discipline. He roared back to form in the spring of 1973 when Celtic and Rangers were tied in a race for the league. Celtic triumphed on 28 April after a 3-0 win at Easter Road and the wee man was in great form that day. He had calmed the team from the start by keeping possession and creating space for other players around him helping to make it 8 League title in a row.

He was often a victim of brutality from defenders, none more so than against the 'animals' of Atletico Madrid in the 1974 European Cup semi final at Parkhead. Vicious tackles rained down on him that night and he was pictured next day covered in cuts and bruises all inflicted by the Spanish team's defenders. Celtic received no protection from UEFA's officials after three Atletico players had been ordered off and despite receiving death threats Jimmy played in Madrid as Celtic went down 2-0, bravely given the circumstances. They were deprived of a crack at the mighty Bayern Munich and the likes of Jimmy, Kenny Dalglish and Dixie Deans would have loved to pit their wits against the great Franz Beckembauer.

His last great Celtic performance came in 1974 when Celtic beat Hibs 6-3 in the League Cup Final. He scored the opening goal and created several others as Dixie Deans helped himself to a another Hampden hat trick against Hibs. Celtic's 10 in a row bid floundered at Ibrox in January 1975 on a day when Jimmy was named as sub, leading to rumours that he had enjoyed the excesses of the new year and had been punished by being dropped. Had he played the outcome could have been different.
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Like Johnstone Murdoch also won 2 league titles and 2 cups in the first two seasons of the timeline. He then went on to make 125 appearance for Middlesbrough.
One of the most notable games for Murdoch was the 1972 Scottish Cup final against Hibernian, where he gave a virtuoso performance in a mind-defying 6-1 victory ranked as one of our finest ever, and remains a Scottish Cup record to this day. His power and precision in his passing was the bulwark to this victory.
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He was injured for some time in the the 71-72 seasons and played 33 games but then played very well in 72-73 season league & cup victories and played 43 games in that season.

Alan ball was not a wide midfielder. He played as sort of hybrid RAM for England 66 but still not as a wide midfielder, they were called "wingless wonders" for a reason. And in club career was always playing in midfield.
 
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Enigma_87

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@Chesterlestreet

RW: Jesper Olsen. Style: Fairly orthodox.

LW: Peter Lorimer. Style: Unorthodox/drifts inside.

^^ surely the other way around given the formation graphics?
 

Enigma_87

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The only question mark in @Tuppet 's side is Lee Sharpe for me. He wasn't United regular during the time frame and from memory he even played as a left back in the beginning of the 90's.
 

Tuppet

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Enigma_87 said:
The only question mark in @Tuppet 's side is Lee Sharpe for me. He wasn't United regular during the time frame and from memory he even played as a left back in the beginning of the 90's.
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Yeah he is arguably the weakest of my attacking 4 as he was young and inexperienced at that time. But at the same time he is exciting and unpredictable and fits in well with the veteran attack. As for games he played 22, 18, 23, 14 games for us in the league during draft timeline. He was fantastic in early 90s though, won PFA young player of the year award in 90-91, score in CWC semi final, got English call up at 19 and destroyed Arsenal. He was a fine player and rounds off the attack well I think.
 

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

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Enigma_87 said:
@Chesterlestreet

RW: Jesper Olsen. Style: Fairly orthodox.

LW: Peter Lorimer. Style: Unorthodox/drifts inside.

^^ surely the other way around given the formation graphics?
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Yes, must be a typo.
Tuppet said:
Yeah he is arguably the weakest of my attacking 4 as he was young and inexperienced at that time. But at the same time he is exciting and unpredictable and fits in well with the veteran attack. As for games he played 22, 18, 23, 14 games for us in the league during draft timeline. He was fantastic in early 90s though, won PFA young player of the year award in 90-91, score in CWC semi final, got English call up at 19 and destroyed Arsenal. He was a fine player and rounds off the attack well I think.
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He is weaker but man, he was fun to watch..... odd to think that if he'd progressed, Giggs' career could have gone differently.

The team he came into at the end of the 80s was fast (though 93 even better - Giggs, Kanchelskis, Ince, Cantona)... McClair was still quite nippy, Sharpe, Wallace and later Giggs came in more. Great to watch.

Sharpe had some good matches .... the ECWC run, the hat trick against Arsenal in the League Cup and his goals (below) v Villa in the League, still one of the best 90 minutes of football I've seen. If you can track down the video (including the pre match, well worth it).

 

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Not much traction on here. Just wanted to post this excellent profile on Paul Madeley -

Paul Madeley(born September 20, 1944 in Leeds, England) was a footballer during Leeds United's glory era of the 1960s and 1970s and the last high-profile 'utility' player.

Madeley was a 'player without portfolio' in that he didn't have a specialist position on the pitch - he had ten of them.

In his long career with Leeds, which began with his debut in January 1964, he played in every position on the pitch except goalkeeper and wore every shirt from No.2 to No.11 (and occasionally No.12) as a result.

Nobody, including Madeley, could pin down what position he preferred - as the oft-heard footballing cliche says: "I don't mind where I play as long as I'm on the pitch", although this is usually uttered by players being asked to play out of their natural position.

Madeley was never asked to play out of position because every position was natural to him. It's not known whether Madeley ever used this answer in an interview.

Madeley's natural ability to adapt to a different role on a frequent basis meant that he was often in the side chosen by manager Don Revie at the expense of a 'specialist' in that position, though the majority of the time there was a player either injured or suspended whom Madeley would replace, mainly in defence although, having become a regular in the team from 1966, Madeley was in attacking positions when Leeds won their first major honours under Revie.

He became a regular in the team from 1966 onwards. In 1968 he scored the crucial away goal against Juventus which helped Leeds win the Fairs Cup - in the two legs he wore the No.8 shirt (striker, in Leeds' shirt allocation system - ace goalscorer Allan Clarke would later make it his own) and the No.10 shirt (attacking midfield player) respectively.

Leeds won the League Cup in the same year, and Madeley was the No.9 (a striker again) in the 1-0 win over Arsenal at Wembley.

Madeley played 31 League matches in various positions in 1969 as Leeds won the League championship and in 1970 flitted around the side again until Paul Reaney broke his leg shortly before the season came to a finale, with Leeds seeking to win three trophies.

Madeley duly played in Reaney's right back position and No.2 shirt as Leeds missed out on the League to Everton, the European Cup in the semi-finals to Celtic and the FA Cup in the final to Chelsea, who won after a replay.

Having deputised so well for Reaney at club level, Madeley was asked by Alf Ramsey to take Reaney's place in the England squad for that summer's World Cup in Mexico, but Madeley politely refused, saying he wanted to rest and, as a stand-in, was unlikely to kick a ball.

At this stage he had not played for his country since winning youth level caps as a teenager. In 1971, Madeley was in the side in one position for all bar one of Leeds' matches in the League, which Leeds again missed out on in the last game of the season.

He played in the No.11 shirt (left winger) as Leeds took their second Fairs Cup that summer. He made his England debut the same year. As the next season got underway, Madeley again found himself moving round the side as injuries and suspensions took hold on his team-mates and in the end he never missed a League match, though for a third year in a row Leeds failed to clinch the title on the last day.

In April 1972, left back Terry Cooper suffered an horrific broken leg so Madeley was in the No.3 shirt for the season's end and the FA Cup final, which Leeds finally won with a 1-0 win over Arsenal, duplicating their League Cup success four seasons previously.

Revie sorted the left back issue by signing Trevor Cherry in the summer of 1972 and Madeley moved across to the centre of defence for much of the next season as Jack Charlton's distinguished career at Leeds wound down.

He was in that No.5 shirt as Leeds surrendered the FA Cup to Sunderland in the final; and then switched back to the left wing and the No.11 shirt for the European Cup Winners Cup final a few days later in Greece, which Leeds lost to A.C. Milan.

Leeds won the League in 1974 - Madeley missing just three matches - and even after Revie's departure that summer to take over the England job, got to their first and only European Cup final a year later, with Madeley in the No.5 shirt again.

This was his last Cup final (and Leeds' last for 21 years) - in the eight finals (nine matches) he played in, he wore seven different shirts. In these days of "player power"/agents/squabbling over image rights, etc, Jimmy Armfield in his autobiography "Right Back To The Beginning",relates a great story about Paul Madeley negotiating a new contract - "He once actually signed a new contract on what was virtually a blank piece of paper. I called him in to discuss terms and opened discussions by saying, 'OK, Paul, we'll give you so much'.

He replied that he had no intention of leaving Leeds so he might as well sign the contract and let me fill in the details. I said, 'What do you want, then, two years or three years?' He answered, 'Either way, I'll leave it to you. I just want to play for Leeds,' and that was that".

A decline in fortunes for Leeds followed, with the ageing side breaking up. Madeley stayed until 1980, enjoying a testimonial season in 1977. After retiring with 711 appearances to his name, he set up a shop in Leeds selling sports goods and worked for his family's home furnishings business.

No true 'utility' player has emerged in English football since; indeed, Madeley was arguably one of a kind for all footballing generations. Madeley won 24 England caps in total between 1971 and 1977.
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oneniltothearsenal

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Tuppet said:
Not much traction on here. Just wanted to post this excellent profile on Paul Madeley -
Click to expand...

Great profile. I think it might have been you who first told me about Madeley last year. Truly a unique player who takes utility player/jack of all trades to a different level. These are the types of really interesting historic players that I like these more niche drafts for highlighting (even if we don't get as many voters).
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
A lot of personal favourites on show here in Murdoch, Johnstone, Sharpe and Brady. Looked into Murdoch a bit in the drafting stage and it seems that he still had quite a bit left in the tank. Some older Middlesborough fans certainly seem to rate him on one of their forums:

CM - Bobby Murdoch ( Great vision could run the show from middle of the park even tho was end part of his career. Used to play football with his son when we lived round corner from him in flatts lane Normanby went round his house showed all his medals. A very genuine lovely fella )
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from that id take it youre about 10 years younger than me and i can confirm how much a massive influence Murdoch was Souness got all the limelight but BM was an inspired signing.
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For me the best signing ever made was Bobby Murdoch by Jack Charlton. On his own Murdoch changed a good Division 2 side into runaway champions. To the best of my recollection he was Jack's only signing. He was a free too
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And I enjoyed this exchange between Souness and Murdoch :lol:

"He came along at just the right time, not only for me but for the whole team. His experience settled us down as we went for promotion and he also proved to be a big influence on my career. Bobby was an excellent passer of the ball and he had an excellent attitude. He would always pull me to one side to pass on advice or to tell me when he thought I was acting wrongly."
Graeme Souness, a team-mate at Middlesbrough as a young player

“I sometimes wish I had not bothered!”
Bobby Murdoch on Souness whom he taught a lot to whilst at Middlesbrough

That said, I also read that Jock Stein let him leave Celtic as he felt his mobility was declining and he wanted to build a more dynamic midfield. Generally in this draft I don't think there'd be much issue with a composed if aging holding player and a dynamic foil like Ball, but Brady seems a very unfortunate opponent who would ideally require a more specialist ball winner at DM to combat him. He's one of the very best players in the draft imo and I thought he'd go sooner than he did.
 

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
A question to both managers.

@Chesterlestreet , how do you think your stop Beardsley and @Tuppet , How'd you stop Brady (both excellent players who had a lot of movement, could find space and cause havoc)?
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Murdoch would be the most defensive midfielder in my midfield and the one most likely to face a quick counter attack. He performed similar role in his partnership with Auld. Murdoch was not a holder though and needed support which was often provided by Auld, it is replicated here with Alan Ball's excellent tenacity and work rate. We are not using a holder and playing in a 4-4-2 so there is no man marking Brady as such. A number 10 dropping in the hole is our biggest problem and Hansen's ability to snuff out the danger and step in the midfield would also be important. It would be a team effort is the short answer.
 

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On attack the accurate passes from Murdoch to Johnstone would probably be our best attacking option. Johnstone is the best attacker on the pitch and facing off probably the weakest defender from Chester's team. It would be interesting to see how his proven connection with Murdoch plays out. Combined with the finishing of Franny lee and creativity of Beardsley, this attack would be really hard to handle for any defense.

Here's his performance from the "Johnstone final" in 71 -
 

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oneniltothearsenal said:
Great profile. I think it might have been you who first told me about Madeley last year. Truly a unique player who takes utility player/jack of all trades to a different level. These are the types of really interesting historic players that I like these more niche drafts for highlighting (even if we don't get as many voters).
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Aye. Quite a few of the pool are properly versatile (Nicol, Madeley, Thomas, Perryman, Greig). Must have been a reflection of the times - small squad sizes, limited substitutions - requiring each club to have someone who can fill gaps across the park.
 

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Tuppet said:
On attack the accurate passes from Murdoch to Johnstone would probably be our best attacking option. Johnstone is the best attacker on the pitch and facing off probably the weakest defender from Chester's team. It would be interesting to see how his proven connection with Murdoch plays out. Combined with the finishing of Franny lee and creativity of Beardsley, this attack would be really hard to handle for any defense.

Here's his performance from the "Johnstone final" in 71 -
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Not sure that Johnstone held his level for long enough to put him ahead of Brady in this timeframe to be honest.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Gio said:
Aye. Quite a few of the pool are properly versatile (Nicol, Madeley, Thomas, Perryman, Greig). Must have been a reflection of the times - small squad sizes, limited substitutions - requiring each club to have someone who can fill gaps across the park.
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Ron Saunders only used 14 players during Villa's title-winning 1980-81 league campaign. I'd imagine that was unusual even at the time, but it's just unthinkable now.
 

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Is there a tumbleweed emoji?
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It's a pity chester isn't around - a couple of his typically left-field picks that would benefit from some elaboration. In terms of Miller and Reaney, that right side of the defence looks really rock solid - both would be fine IMO in a final. Don't know enough about Albiston to say he'd get on against Jimmy.
 

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Not participating in your own draft thread should be punishable by gullotine. Or at the very least he should receive the loss and tuppet advances.

 

Indnyc

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green_smiley said:
Shouldn't Chester's time be divided by 6? Too much advantage for #1 and #16 if divided by 12
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Arbitrium said:
Not participating in your own draft thread should be punishable by gullotine. Or at the very least he should receive the loss and tuppet advances.
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Both are fair arguments. What is the general way of measuring timing when doing Snake Drafts?
 

Indnyc

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
But then you'd do something similar for 2/15? And end up with some sort of algorithm depending on place in draft.
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Doesn't work for 2 and 15 because there is 8 hour difference between your two pick times.. For 1 and 16 you are essentially picking 2 at the same time
 

idmanager

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In the draft this was introduced in, the first player got 8 timings divided by 8.
The 16th guy got 7 timings divided by 7. Rest all got 14 timings divided by 14.
There were 14 picks in that draft.

Think its completely logical.
 

Indnyc

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Thoughts people?

On one hand, I can see draw gives an advantage but on other, that's arguably luck of the draw and rules were set at outset?

(Note to self, never get involved again.... then you can lambast the draft chiefs remorselessly)

Thinking.
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I asked the question on the main thread
 

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@Tuppet and @Chesterlestreet after a lot of deliberations and discussions it was agreed that the average pick time for chester needs to be divided by 6.

So the average pick times becomes Tuppet 101.91 and Chester 141.83 which gives Tuppet the game.

I am sorry this isn't the way i wanted the match to end
 

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Whoa !! Just got up, that was interesting, I am probably the only one who likes penalties to settle the ties. Anyway great team and hard luck @Chesterlestreet , draw seem a fair result.
 
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