Pre Premier League Draft Round 1 - Youngrell vs BeforeKeane

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Voted provisionally for Youngrell. Like the McCoist/LeTiss/Gazza axis. Though Gazza played more in a 3 man midfield with Spurs iirc. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Ffs, who drinks Peroni. You should have started off with the Stella!



Good video. I should use this for the lovely Andy Gray flick too.

Peroni is far nicer than Stella ffs!

 

[Pat_Mustard]

@youngrell how was Gazza's consistency in this period? My football memories begin around 1989-1990 and crystallise during Utd's 1991 Cup Winner's Cup campaign so I remember his brilliant highs but not really whether he was doing it week in week out. I still have no idea how to vote but highly unlucky for you to come up against that Robson/McDermott duo, as peak Gazza's would arguably be uncontainable against a more pedestrian midfield.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Peroni is far nicer than Stella ffs!

Oh, Peroni! Why did I think it was Perrier. Damn the IPAs. Sorry.

 

[Indnyc]

Voted provisionally for Youngrell. Like the McCoist/LeTiss/Gazza axis. Though Gazza played more in a 3 man midfield with Spurs iirc. Can anyone confirm?

That’s what I remember as well. Wiki confirms it for the 1991 FA Cup but not sure if this was always the case

 

[youngrell]

• Would like to know a bit more about Duxbury before deciding on how he fares against Hill.

A superb servant to the Reds, Mike Duxbury displayed a high level of performance over a prolonged period for the first-team in the 1980’s, a decade in which the terms ‘consistency’ and ‘Manchester United’ didn’t always go hand in hand. Starting in the days of Tommy Docherty, he remained with the club through the reigns of Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson and into that of Alex Ferguson. His very last game for United took place just fifteen days before the latter steered his side to victory in the 1990 F.A. Cup final, the Scot’s first major trophy at Old Trafford. Duxbury’s aggregate figures in competitive fixtures for the United senior side totalled 345 starts, 33 substitute appearances and seven goals.

Over the next seven seasons there was no dislodging him from the first-team. Seemingly possessing the football equivalent of a Masters degree in adaptability, and even though he was challenged for his position at various times by signings such as John Gidman, Colin Gibson, John Sivebaek and Viv Anderson, as well as newcomers like Billy Garton and Clayton Blackmore, his displays as a no-frills midfielder, full-back or centre-back enabled him to retain his place.

 

[youngrell]

@youngrell how was Gazza's consistency in this period? My football memories begin around 1989-1990 and crystallise during Utd's 1991 Cup Winner's Cup campaign so I remember his brilliant highs but not really whether he was doing it week in week out. I still have no idea how to vote but highly unlucky for you to come up against that Robson/McDermott duo, as peak Gazza's would arguably be uncontainable against a more pedestrian midfield.

I believe he was very consistent, averaged around 30 appearances and 10 goals a season for 3 seasons each with Newcastle and Spurs, getting into the PFA Team of the Year for both clubs. Of course the great SAF tried and thought he'd signed him from Newcastle and his performances post transfer to Spurs earned him a big money move to Lazio despite cruciate ligament injury putting him out for a year.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I believe he was very consistent, averaged around 30 appearances and 10 goals a season for 3 seasons each with Newcastle and Spurs, getting into the PFA Team of the Year for both clubs. Of course the great SAF tried and thought he'd signed him from Newcastle and his performances post transfer to Spurs earned him a big money move to Lazio despite cruciate ligament injury putting him out for a year.

Oh FFS! I'd originally voted for the opposition as they seem that bit more robust, switched to you as you have so many match winners, and I'm at an impasse now.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Oh, Peroni! Why did I think it was Perrier. Damn the IPAs. Sorry.

Glad we've sorted out the 2018 Peroni/Perrier crisis. Supermarket was doing a meal offer and choice of drink was squash, Coke or Peroni.... took me 0.004 of a second to decide.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Voted provisionally for Youngrell. Like the McCoist/LeTiss/Gazza axis. Though Gazza played more in a 3 man midfield with Spurs iirc. Can anyone confirm?

@youngrell how was Gazza's consistency in this period? My football memories begin around 1989-1990 and crystallise during Utd's 1991 Cup Winner's Cup campaign so I remember his brilliant highs but not really whether he was doing it week in week out. I still have no idea how to vote but highly unlucky for you to come up against that Robson/McDermott duo, as peak Gazza's would arguably be uncontainable against a more pedestrian midfield.

From my view, same as my post yesterday (#10), " I think Le Tissier, Gazza and McCoist maybe need a Peter Reid/Souness/Moses/Wilkins player sitting and doing all the donkey work THEN allowing them to get the ball and go forward."

It would be silly to say Gazza or Le Tissier were rubbish but they needed a structure around them to allow them to do their thing. If a PRE PEAK Paul Ince is the player that is supposed to do that then with all respect, he has got no chance against peak Robson (best MFer in this draft) or peak McDermott.... they're simply not going to get much possession and without it, they don't have the defensive/hard working attributes (which my MF has) to add value?

Also, if Gazza/Le Tissier do get some ball, (1) I've said Robson could drop (as he did for United and England WHEN needed, not all the time) and (2) they're not up against mugs - they're up against a back four of Irwin (who had six seasons by then and a European medal), Todd (double League Champion, a beautiful/fast reader of the ball), O Leary (double League Champion, comfortable on the ball) and PVDH (double League Champion, European winner). And they weren't bit bit players in those teams, they were key regulars who the managers always picked and where the fans of every single one of them recognised their ability/teamwork and idolised them.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Oh FFS! I'd originally voted for the opposition as they seem that bit more robust, switched to you as you have so many match winners, and I'm at an impasse now.

Sorry, just up, working through posts in order.... hope my previous post helps explain my thoughts on what impact Gazza/Le Tissier could have?

You're right, we are more robust and while they have matchwinners on paper (though I'd argue Robson wasn't exactly bad at that too? .... or others), I don't see them getting enough ball/opportunities. Personally, I think Le Tissier and Gazza would both want the ball, in similar positions (central) and be occupying each others preferred space.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I believe he was very consistent, averaged around 30 appearances and 10 goals a season for 3 seasons each with Newcastle and Spurs, getting into the PFA Team of the Year for both clubs. Of course the great SAF tried and thought he'd signed him from Newcastle and his performances post transfer to Spurs earned him a big money move to Lazio despite cruciate ligament injury putting him out for a year.

Spurs, three seasons, in a team built around him and to protect him and let him do zero defensive work (so it's all on Ince);

League appearances 32, 34, 26. League goals ... 6, 6, 7.

To fairly compare, the following are purely League stats.

• Gordon Hill, 3 seasons with United : 26, 39, 36.... 7, 15, 17 (in his worst season.... from the wing... matched Gazzas best)
• Robson/WBA : 41, 35, 40..... 7, 9, 10
• Robson/United : pick 3 goal tallies out of his first 7 seasons.... 5, 10, 12, 9, 7, 7, 11 (PFA ToTY several times)
• McDermott : (80-82)... 11, 13, 14 (and PFA/FWA PoTY)
• Steven : (85-87) .... 12, 9, 14.... from the wing
• Channon : take your pick from first six seasons at Southampton... 16, 15, 18, 15, 16, 21 (PFA ToTY a few times)

The front six are proven goal scorers over a long period of time and even the wingers and MFers outscore Gazza.

Also remember the games they were scoring in.... think Robson v Barcelona, McDermott in European Cup Finals, Steven in European semis and finals.

@Pat_Mustard ... you mentioned match winners?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Spurs, three seasons, in a team built around him and to protect him and let him do zero defensive work (so it's all on Ince);

League appearances 32, 34, 26. League goals ... 6, 6, 7.

To fairly compare, the following are purely League stats.

• Gordon Hill, 3 seasons with United : 26, 39, 36.... 7, 15, 17 (in his worst season.... from the wing... matched Gazzas best)
• Robson/WBA : 41, 35, 40..... 7, 9, 10
• Robson/United : pick 3 goal tallies out of his first 7 seasons.... 5, 10, 12, 9, 7, 7, 11 (PFA ToTY several times)
• McDermott : (80-82)... 11, 13, 14 (and PFA/FWA PoTY)
• Steven : (85-87) .... 12, 9, 14.... from the wing
• Channon : take your pick from first six seasons at Southampton... 16, 15, 18, 15, 16, 21 (PFA ToTY a few times)

The front six are proven goal scorers over a long period of time and even the wingers and MFers outscore Gazza.

Also remember the games they were scoring in.... think Robson v Barcelona, McDermott in European Cup Finals, Steven in European semis and finals.

@Pat_Mustard ... you mentioned match winners?

I'm not sure about reducing Gazza's influence to raw goals scored stats*, but I'd switched my vote back to you anyway on account of having the stronger defence imo.

*When we play on Tuesday goals scored is all that matters when discussing Wark.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Sorry, just up, working through posts in order.... hope my previous post helps explain my thoughts on what impact Gazza/Le Tissier could have?

You're right, we are more robust and while they have matchwinners on paper (though I'd argue Robson wasn't exactly bad at that too? .... or others), I don't see them getting enough ball/opportunities. Personally, I think Le Tissier and Gazza would both want the ball, in similar positions (central) and be occupying each others preferred space.

Aye, match winners was the wrong phrase in my other post. I'd revise that to more flair on his part, rather than more match winners. They'll both have their moments, but I'd rather have Robbo tracking Gazza than Gazza tracking Robbo when those moments came. Also, if I'm honest Duxbery looked very ropey to me and I can see Hill having alot of success against him.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Brian McClair

• 99 goals in 145 games for Celtic
• First season for United, 24 league goals in 40 games
• First five seasons, total of 101 goals
• Striker, second striker, left foot, right foot, header

Enjoy, I'd forgotten how good he was (good choice of music).

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

And finally (unless any more questions).... never tire of this.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

We literally save the best to last.

Midfield general, B2B, tackling, shooting, heading, positional sense.... Bryan Robson had it all. And if you needed a miracle, he was your man.... Captain Marvel indeed.

2-0 down to a Maradona led Barcelona? Call Robson.


In an epic battle with a great Liverpool side? (Possibly the greatest semi(s) ever. Epics). Call Robson.


In your first European Cup Final for decades and need a leaders performance? Call Robson (in his words, maybe his greatest game)

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...son-ecwc-final-against-barcelona-in-1991.aspx

I've been fortunate to see lots of greats following United but to quote a football guru in Tina Turner, he is "simply the best".

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Went for BeforeKeane at the end by the barest of margins.

Now, I feel that all the players Le Tissier, Speed, Ince absolutely deserve to be in this draft and were all quality.
Its just for me, in such a close match that comes down to fine margins, this is where I think the experience and guile of BeforeKeane's more seasoned collection of players will make the difference against the less experienced editions of the three mentioned players.

 

[Indnyc]

Hard luck @youngrell. Very good team and incredibly unfortunate to run into @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson who put together an equally good team

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Went for BeforeKeane at the end by the barest of margins.

Now, I feel that all the players Le Tissier, Speed, Ince absolutely deserve to be in this draft and were all quality.
Its just for me, in such a close match that comes down to fine margins, this is where I think the experience and guile of BeforeKeane's more seasoned collection of players will make the difference against the less experienced editions of the three mentioned players.

Yeah, three very good players, Le Tissier was a genius and Speed (over the next decade) became a top/consistent MFer.

Hard luck @youngrell. Very good team and incredibly unfortunate to run into @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson who put together an equally good team

Thanks for organising.

@youngrell very good team, good game.

 

[youngrell]

Congrats @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson, well played and good luck going forward.

Thanks @Indnyc for setting up.

Look forward to the next games.