Premier League 20 Seasons Final - Team Polaroid vs Team Gio

[Polaroid]

This is a Premier League 20 Seasons (92/93 to 11/12) Fantasy Tournament where managers assemble their squads by selecting players based on their playing performance in the Premier League over a sustained period of time (at least 100 appearances which covers 3 years or more) - performance that has influence and impact on his team and the Premier League, including but not limited to those that lead to individual and team achievements. As in any team, team tactics and balance also play a part. Hence please carefully consider the abovesaid factors and evaluate the merits of both teams before voting for the team which in your opinion is likelier to win the match. Polls last 1 day and are open to all Redcafe members to vote. Managers can vote in matches other than their own. Thank you.

A balanced team all-round with devastating attacking capabilities and a rock-solid defensive spine.

The high-octane jet-heeled attacking game springs forth from this wondrously cohesive team passing and moving at high speed, continuously attacking space and weaving together slick attacking moves to punch gaping holes in opposition defences with rapid-fire intensity. At the cutting edge of this fluid and dynamic offense is that glorious attacking quintet boasting the fantastical magic of Henry, the visionary genius of Cantona, the explosive penetration of Overmars, the prodigious play-making brilliance of Fabregas and the footballing force of nature that is Vieira...a potent cocktail of speed, power, technique, flair and creativity that ignites into an explosive spectacle of dazzling fireworks and ruthless efficiency, creating and scoring goals in a swashbuckling fashion that is breathtakingly beautiful for the spectator but brutally cruel to the opposition. The ace in the attacking gameplan is simple – to break the weakest link in the chain and target the softest chink in the armour ie Gio’s fullbacks. The biggest mismatch in this game is Rob Jones and Le Saux vs Henry and Overmars. Henry will play in his usual style from out to in, attacking and breezing past Jones with his dribbling, pace and movement, taking him out of the game and penetrating at speed into the penalty box, getting into a striking position goalside of the centrebacks which forces them to turn back towards their own goal in hasty catch-up. Ditto Overmar against Le Saux. Cantona, Fabregas and Vieira will then capitalise on the disarray and vacated space to wreck further havoc and inflict brutal carnage.

Defensively, the fort is authoritatively marshalled by the formidable central towers of Van der Sar, Adams and Desailly with Irwin and Ashley Cole buttressing the flanks and the trio of Gilberto Silva, Vieira and Fabregas shielding from the front for even more defensive solidity to complete an insurmountable wall of resistance. Adams’s inspirational leadership and organisational skills will run the back four as one water-tight unit working in unison to shut out the opposition. Desailly is the ideal stopper to snuff out opposition attacks with his pace, power, anticipation and ball-winning prowess

Sir Alex Ferguson on Tony Adams
"A Manchester United man playing in the wrong strip!"
"I've always said that about central defenders - the best ones read the game better than anyone else on the field. You'd have to include Tony among the best. I tried to sign him once, but he'd just signed a new contract at Highbury. He was an Arsenal man, though, and it would have taken something special to prise him away."
"I can't wait for him to retire!"

Michael Owen on Marcel Desailly
"With some defenders you think he’s not strong, he’s not so quick or whatever and try to play against that weakness. But Desailly was virtually impossible to play against. He was strong, quick, and good on the ball."

Jamie Carragher on Desailly
He loved the big occasions. Whenever we used to play against him at Anfield he used to play so well that, to be honest, it was a case of men against boys.

Ruud Gullit on Desailly
A very strong defender and excellent in the air, which is something you need. He also had the kind of pace and power that would frighten attackers into making a mistake.

Brian Laudrup on Desailly
Definitely the hardest player to come up against – it was nearly impossible to get past him because, for a player of his physique, he had incredible balance. It was always good to have him on your team, because he did the work of three men. He was so good that he filled his offensive players with confidence. You knew, with him on the pitch, you’d never get caught on the counter-attack.

Alan Hansen on Denis Irwin
"In any team of the decade, the full back slots are already nailed down - Denis Irwin at right back and Denis Irwin at left back"


Gilberto Silva fits like a glove into his defensive anchor role to provide additional cover and security for his team-mates, affording Fabregas, Vieira and Cole greater freedom to support the attack when the opportunity arises. The diamond of Cantona, Vieira, Fabregas and Gilberto Silva will dominate possession and control in the middle. The ability of my defenders on the ball and comfort in stepping out of defence will aid the transition from defense to attack, not to mention Van der Sar's masterful distribution, Fabregas' incisive passes, Vieira's driving runs and Cantona's visionary through-balls which can launch counterattacks in an instant, unleashing Henry and Overmars in lightning-quick raids to deliver the sucker-punch in a flash.

Set-pieces will be a treat with the fabulous ball-striking technique of Henry, Fabregas and Irwin arrowing laser-guided missiles into goal or delivering perfectly flighted balls to aerial powerhouses Adams, Desailly, Vieira and Cantona. 7 of the starting 11 are from the two formidable Arsenal sides that Wenger built, with at least 5 of them training and playing together for 3 seasons, at least 4 of them for 7 seasons. And this is without including van Persie and Sagna on the bench. The rest of the bench comprises Gareth Bale, Antonio Valencia and Daniel Agger, bolstering my team with further quality and versatility. The cohesion and understanding in my team is a priceless lubricant oiling both the offensive and defensive phases of the game, enabling my team to work as a team in the true sense of the word, handing my side another significant advantage. The footballing philosophy guiding my team's style of play is crystal-clear and compatible with the qualities of my players, making the best use of their individual talents to forge a team greater than the sum of its parts. The common understanding in a shared philosophy and identity enhances the team's cohesiveness and effectiveness, giving my team an invaluable competitive advantage over the opposition. This advantage is further rammed home by the glaring mismatch in Henry and Overmars vs Jones and Le Saux. Last but not least, the best big game performer in Premier League history, the man who changed the history of Manchester United and the Premier League - Eric the King

Schmeichel on Cantona
In my eyes, he was responsible for the Premier League developing as quickly as it did. Everyone took to him, controversy or not. He oozed charisma and genius in equal measure, and is by far and away the best ever in the Premier League. It was an honour to have played with him.

Spoiler

Thierry Henry



Eric Cantona



Patrick Vieira


Cesc Fabregas



Marc Overmars popping up left, right, centre, using either foot to score


Edwin van der Sar

Team Polaroid
Current formation (switch at 11-19)

subs: Robin van Persie, Gareth Bale, Gilberto Silva, Daniel Agger, Bacary Sagna

Spoiler

(switch at vote count of 3-12)

Formation at start of game

Current formation (switch at 4-14)
Team Gio

Spoiler

starting formation

subs: Martin Keown, Emmanuel Petit, Joe Cole, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Michael Owen

Tactics:
It's a classic 4-2-3-1 full to the brim with complementary partnerships across the pitch. The outstanding defender of the draft, Rio Ferdinand and Sol Campbell form the strongest central defensive partnership of the competition, one which was nigh on impossible to penetrate at international level. The pair are ably assisted by a two international class full-backs in Graeme Le Saux and the pacey Rob Jones (the latter having done an excellent man-marking job in taming the young Giggs on his Liverpool debut). Both will play conservatively to limit the space available for presumably Henry and Overmars.

In midfield Steven Gerrard and Xabi Alonso renew their phenomenal partnership and they will be supported in the engine room by the monstrous Michael Essien: a trio who will dominate the centre of the park, forming the perfect platform for the counter-attacking punch of Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo and Gianfranco Zola. The direct and relentless match-winning ability of Ronaldo complements the incisive and inventive inside-forward Zola. As the rest of Europe found in 2008, the freely rotating combination of Rooney and Ronaldo will likely be too hot to handle.

On a stacked bench is the only other Ballon D'Or winner the Premiership has seen, Michael Owen, whose pace late on in games should cause Adams and Desailly problems. Strength in depth is the name of the game with Martin Keown, Emmanuel Petit, Joe Cole and Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink on hand to bolster the first XI.

Player Profiles:

Spoiler

Jens Lehmann
Imposing personality who like Van der Sar matured with age and spent his best years in the Premiership. 61 caps for Germany and UEFA Goalkeeper of the Year in 2006 when he kept 10 consecutive clean sheets.

Rob Jones
Probably the only top class right-back England have produced, aside from Neville, in the last 25 years. Plucked from Crewe as a 19-year-old, he made his Liverpool debut against another precocious talent in Ryan Giggs and achieved the rare feat of shutting the winger out. Such a performance was typical of the standard Jones maintained in establishing himself, first in a Liverpool shirt, then latterly in an England shirt. Injury cut him down in his prime, but not before he reached a level of performance - "he was as good as anything in Europe at the time", said Jamie Carragher - that forced Steven McManaman into naming the full-back in his perfect XI alongside the likes of Zidane and Carlos.

Rio Ferdinand
The Premiership's outstanding defender and one of a small handful of players who can claim to have been the best in the world in their position, which he undoubtedly was between 2006 and 2008.

Sol Campbell
Imperious one-on-one, he was dominant in both the Premiership (3 times PFA Team of the Year) and on the international stage, making the Team of the Tournament at World Cup 2002 and Euro 2004.

Graeme Le Saux
England's outstanding left-back of the 1990s who usurped Stuart Pearce to make the position his own. Twice selected in the PFA Team of the Year and was fundamental in Blackburn's success in 1994/95.

Xabi Alonso
Liverpool's downward trajectory post-Alonso and Madrid's rising status following his switch is testament to the calibre of the tenacious playmaking midfielder.

Michael Essien
Box-to-box machine who:


Steven Gerrard
His Roy-of-the-Rovers performances have fuelled Scouser delusions of title challenges for more than a decade. Will thrive with a platform of Essien and Alonso to dominate midfield.

Cristiano Ronaldo
The Premiership saw the best of both sides of Ronaldo: the trick-laden, full-back-dismantling winger evolving into the relentless goalscorer and match-winner.

Wayne Rooney
Played some of his very best and most creative football alongside Owen and Ronaldo.

Subs:

Michael Owen
Embarrassed an array of world-class defenders during his career thanks to his blistering pace and always reliable finishing - particularly on the biggest stages.

Martin Keown
Formed a inpenetrable partnership with Adams, it was little surprise that Arsenal had the best defensive record in the Premiership 4 seasons out of 6 following his arrival at the club.

Emmanuel Petit
Combative yet oozed quality as part of an Arsenal midfield that went toe-to-toe with and matched Manchester United's famous four. Integral to France's World Cup success in 1998.

Joe Cole
Developed immensely under Mourinho, marrying the natural technical ability with an improved awareness and incisiveness. Silenced the 15-year debates about who could fill the problem left-midfield slot for the national team.

Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
Guaranteed to be either top scorer (97/98, 00/01 and La Liga 99/00) or thereabouts for a number of seasons thanks to his ruthless and emphatic finishing on either foot.

 

[Rood]

while the players involved are obviously the cream of the crop, I find that both managers have gone for strange formations

 

[OB]

Those arrows

 

[Polaroid]

while the players involved are obviously the cream of the crop, I find that both managers have gone for strange formations

You could interpret my formation as similar to a typical 4-3-3, with a withdrawn forward in the hole and the other two forwards starting from wide positions to beat the fullbacks and attack the box

 

[Theon]

while the players involved are obviously the cream of the crop, I find that both managers have gone for strange formations

Indeed.

I don't massively mind Gio's, but it would have been better to play a 4-5-1 IMO. Gerrard/Essien is a perfect middle two that is more than capable of coming out on top against Fabregas/Viera. It then takes Alonso out of the midfield battle and leaves him free to dictate from deep, where he is more suited, whilst also marking Cantona. Thirdly it leaves Silva with noone to mark, while at the moment he's picking up Gerrard.

Can't work out Polaroids at all, looks like a strikerless formation with is pretty mental.

 

[crappycraperson]

Indeed.

I don't massively mind Gio's, but it would have been better to play a 4-5-1 IMO. Gerrard/Essien is a perfect middle two that is more than capable of coming out on top against Fabregas/Viera. It then takes Alonso out of the midfield battle and leaves him free to dictate from deep, where he is more suited, whilst also marking Cantona. Thirdly it leaves Silva with noone to mark, while at the moment he's picking up Gerrard.

Can't work out Polaroids at all, looks like a strikerless formation with is pretty mental.

I think I would have voted Poloroid if not for this odd formation. He is probably going for 433 with a withdrawn striker but I don't agree that it gets the best out of his team, especially his best player- Henry. Always a chance that it won't click.

Gio's full backs are sore to the eyes but his best players are playing their usual positions. Almost no chance of them not clicking.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Damn this is tough to chose.

 

[Rood]

You could interpret my formation as similar to a typical 4-3-3, with a withdrawn forward in the hole and the other two forwards starting from wide positions to beat the fullbacks and attack the box

I think you would win this with the line up you started the semi with (and without the arrows!!), but with this formation I am not so sure.

I don't think either team has their strongest line up on show - world class finishers like Owen and RvP should surely be starting. But then I went out in the groups so what do I know!

anyway I'll wait to see a bit of the managerial debate before voting.

 

[Polaroid]

I think you would win this with the line up you started the semi with (and without the arrows!!), but with this formation I am not so sure.

I don't think either team has their strongest line up on show - world class finishers like Owen and RvP should surely be starting. But then I went out in the groups so what do I know!

anyway I'll wait to see a bit of the managerial debate before voting.

The inclusion of Gilberto Silva to form a diamond with Vieira, Fabregas and Cantona will help my team dominate possession and control in the middle. He also provides additional cover and security for his team-mates, affording Fabregas, Vieira and Cole greater freedom to support the attack when the opportunity arises

It's a bit odd how adding Silva and dropping Van Persie can make a side stronger, but it does. Was quite clear in the semifinal ET, Silva added so much more than RvP just looking pretty upfront.

The arrows convey specific details of a player's role - for example, in Henry's case, he is not playing as a winger, the wide position is merely his starting position to beat the fullback (Rob Jones) and attack the box at speed where he takes up the striking position goalside of the centrebacks which forces them to turn back towards their own goal in hasty catch-up. Ditto Overmar against Le Saux. Cantona, Fabregas and Vieira will then capitalise on the disarray and vacated space to wreck further havoc and inflict brutal carnage. More examples on the use of arrows - if you look at the arrows for Ashley Cole, he provides the back-up width when Henry makes his diagonal runs to a striking position in the box.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

Not sure of Overmars in that position, or Zola for the other side.

Quality players no doubt but I feel they're not being used to their best here.

Polaroid has the better defence (keeper and full backs are better, centre halves are about even tbh).

I'll have to give it some thought before voting...

 

[Gio]

The Henry - Jones battle is an interesting one. While he liked to drift out to the flank, Henry was at his devastating best as a central striker. Meanwhile, the worst years of his career, at Juventus and Barcelona, were spent marooned on the left flank. Implicitly the right-footed player on the left will cut inside, but that's into the space occupied by Rio Ferdinand. That's two players Henry's going to have to beat to make an impact.

As for Jones, we have to appreciate that Ryan Giggs regarded him as his toughest opponent. That title was later handed to Javier Zanetti, but it does show the calibre of Jones that he was able to regularly snuff out the best winger these islands had produced in 30 years.

I played with Rob Jones a few times and he was a bit unfortunate with injuries and his best form was probably before I got into the team, when he was as good as probably anything in Europe at the time. He was playing out of his skin and I think if he'd have stayed fit he probably would have gone on to win 70 or 80 caps for England instead of Gary Neville.

 

[Gio]

Not sure of Overmars in that position, or Zola for the other side.

Quality players no doubt but I feel they're not being used to their best here.

Polaroid has the better defence (keeper and full backs are better, centre halves are about even tbh).

I'll have to give it some thought before voting...

I agree that he's stronger at full-back. However, the only way Polaroid's central defensive pair is on par is if we consider Milan Desailly rather than Chelsea Desailly. On his Milan performances he challenges Ferdinand as the best defender in the draft. However, he declined physically during his 30s after joining Chelsea and, while he remained a robust and experienced defender, he was a couple of levels below his Serie A best.

As for Adams, well resident gooner Peterstorey reckons I've got a better centre-half on my bench:

Martin Keown was a very good player, fantastic man-marker, aggressive and committed, leaving captaincy aside better than Tony Adams.

Adams and Desailly both great players, but Ferdinand and Campbell slightly more refined, complementary and proven together.

 

[antohan]

As in the semi, I reckon Polaroid would be far stronger playing Henry centrally, Overmars left and Valencia on the right. No idea why Valencia has been perma-benched throughout, he's got attributes that set him apart from Pol's other options, provides more balance and is the only natural right-flank player.

Gio is not picking Cantona at all, yet it doesn't seem to hurt him, while Pol seems to be losing a player with Silva looking after Gerrard. Don't think Gerrard is someone that requires that, but I could see how Gerrard + Zola drifting in + Gio's strong midfield asked for that.

At the current scoreline though, Pol urgently needs to take a more aggressive stance. FWIW, I reckon he is better placed to control the game as it is (despite shades of Arsenal/Spain pass-pass-pass and no one shooting) but once he is chasing the game it's an entirely different proposition.

Valencia on the right would provide pace and open things up, while also putting in a shift to support Irwin against Ronaldo (something currently both sides lack entirely), Overmars would do exactly what Henry is currently doing, and Cantona-Henry through the middle would pose a major challenge to Rio and Sol.

 

[Theon]

Cantona/Henry is about the best possible striking duo you could get in this draft.

4-4-2 is definitely the way to go for Polaroid, Overmars back in his best position and Valencia on the right.

 

[Theon]

Agree with Gio he has the better CB's, pretty clear cut to be honest. I'd still move to a 4-5-1 though and get Alonso out of the midfield battle and allow him to spray passes from deep - whilst also keeping an eye on Cantona. Drop Gerrard back to his best position and him and Essien will control the midfield.

 

[Cutch]

Went for Gio. Don't like Pols reshuffle upfront at all, was better the way it was in the semi.

 

[Polaroid]

Valencia on for Gilberto Silva

 

[antohan]

Not sure why so far back, particularly Overmars (and we know Valencia will go up and down the flank regardless). Cole should own his flank, no problem.

Pol's midfield will have to have a great game, but if they coped with Lampard-Keane in the semi I can't see why they wouldn't keep up with Essien-Gerrard.

 

[Theon]

Indeed, he could probably redo it on football user if he has the time because it looks better to the casual voter, but he is looking great now.

The formations are now virtually the same, just with Valencia and Overmars pictured slightly further back - and Pol now has the better side.

In defence Gio has the better CB's, though not by much, but Pol's goalkeeper and fullbacks destroy Gios.

In midfield both sides have a creator/destroyer combination - and Pol wins on both. Viera is better than Essien and Fabregas is better than Alonso.

In attacking midfield Polaroid wins again, Cantona is a better AM than Gerrard by some distance, certainly not Gerrards best position whereas Eric is lethal there.

On the wing the edge goes to Gio with Ronaldo, though Zola slightly forced there making it a close call.

Then strikers Polaroid wins hands down, the best striker in the game who will absolutely thrive off Cantona's passes and creativity. You couldn't pick a better front two from this era, possibly Henry behind Shearer but there is little in it.

The only area Polaroid is significantly weaker is Ronaldo on the wings, but he has countered that with Irwin, whereas Cantona has free reign to pick up possession and wreck havoc on Gio's side. He can't be squeezed by Rio and Sol as that would leave space in behind for Henry to exploit.

 

[KingEric7]

This is ridiculously difficult, and I'm tempted to think that it hinges on which Ronaldo it is that we see for Gio - 06/07 one or 07/08. I think Gio's team needs the one from 06/07 so that the insane wide option is there as well as the goal scoring threat, with Rooney playing more the role he did in 09/10 or even 11/12 as the goalscoring threat (whilst still dropping deep and allowing Ronaldo to shoulder some of the goalscoring burden). Cole and Irwin is an amazing pair of full backs and, as good as Ronaldo was in 07/08, I don't think the wide option would've been there like it would've been the previous season. Still, it is Ronaldo...

It's insanely close. Polaroid's wingers and Gio's full backs, whilst still very good, are the weakest parts of their team, whilst Gio's main attacking asset in Ronaldo on the wing where Polaroid has two of the best full backs to have played in this league. The midfield...it's impossible to choose between the two really.

I think what would settle it is that Ronaldo of 06/07 is probably the only player there that cannot really be dealt with if he's on his game. Ferdinand is the best defender in the tournament and Campbell ain't half bad either, so I think they've got enough in them to deal even with Henry and Cantona. In every part of the pitch, there are players that come up against players that are just as good as them or that you could see dealing with them if they were on their game. Even though Ronaldo was often nullified by Cole, at his best he was absolutely ridiculous, and I think that's where the difference lies.

Too many assumptions up there from me though in terms of what roles players will play, so I will pass on this one I think.

 

[Theon]

This is ridiculously difficult, and I'm tempted to think that it hinges on which Ronaldo it is that we see for Gio - 06/07 one or 07/08. I think Gio's team needs the one from 06/07 so that the insane wide option is there as well as the goal scoring threat, with Rooney playing more the role he did in 09/10 or even 11/12 as the goalscoring threat (whilst still dropping deep and allowing Ronaldo to shoulder some of the goalscoring burden). Cole and Irwin is an amazing pair of full backs and, as good as Ronaldo was in 07/08, I don't think the wide option would've been there like it would've been the previous season. Still, it is Ronaldo...

It's insanely close. Polaroid's wingers and Gio's full backs, whilst still very good, are the weakest parts of their team, whilst Gio's main attacking asset in Ronaldo on the wing where Polaroid has two of the best full backs to have played in this league. The midfield...it's impossible to choose between the two really.

I think what would settle it is that Ronaldo of 06/07 is probably the only player there that cannot really be dealt with if he's on his game. Ferdinand is the best defender in the tournament and Campbell ain't half bad either, so I think they've got enough in them to deal even with Henry and Cantona. In every part of the pitch, there are players that come up against players that are just as good as them or that you could see dealing with them if they were on their game. Even though Ronaldo was often nullified by Cole, at his best he was absolutely ridiculous, and I think that's where the difference lies.

Too many assumptions up there from me though in terms of what roles players will play, so I will pass on this one I think.

That's bollocks to be fair!

 

[KingEric7]

I mean given the players on the pitch, and in context of Gio having Rio Ferdinand and Campbell in defence. Ronaldo during that season was mental - as brilliant as Henry and Cantona are, I don't think they were quite as impossible to deal with as Ronaldo was on form that season. Ferdinand is the best defender in this draft and has dealt previously with a player of the quality of Messi in 07/08 (who was amazing back then even if 08/09 was the season he really turned it on).

The differences are fecking marginal so you've gotta find something, and that's what would swing it for me. You could say on any day, anything could happen, and that anyone could have any player on their day (this is obviously very hypothetical), but I would still argue that it rests on Ronaldo. He's the only player whereby on his day there is a clear difference in quality between himself and the other players. Ferdinand/Campbell and Henry/Cantona...it's difficult to say what could happen. Ferdinand at his best is one of the best players I've seen, but then again so was Henry - it's close. The midfield...very even, difficult to say what would happen here. Ronaldo at his best...an absolute monster who would just feck shit up in an entirely different way to anyone else. That's the difference for me. The battles everywhere else are too close to call, but he's the one player you'd think that would just shit out anyone if on form, which is the only thing I could separate the teams based on the line ups.

 

[Theon]

I think Cantona and especially Henry were both as good as Ronaldo at their best.

Ronnie is picked up by Irwin though so is limited, whereas nobody is picking up Cantona. Out of the two I think Cantona will cause more damage in this match, he's just got complete freedom.

Think you can distinguish a few areas, the midfield two is comfortably Polaroids battle now. Viera was a class above Essien and Fabregas was a class above Alonso.

Whilst Gio has the better width, Pol's playing against weaker fullbacks. Overmars was amazing as well, playing in his favoured left wing role and he is against Rob Jones, plus backed up by Ashley Cole. That's a devastating left flank.

 

[KingEric7]

I think Cantona and especially Henry were both as good as Ronaldo at their best.

Ronnie is picked up by Irwin though so is limited, whereas nobody is picking up Cantona. Out of the two I think Cantona will cause more damage in this match, he's just got complete freedom.

Think you can distinguish a few areas, the midfield two is comfortably Polaroids battle now. Viera was a class above Essien and Fabregas was a class above Alonso.

Whilst Gio has the better width, Pol's playing against weaker fullbacks. Overmars was amazing as well, playing in his favoured left wing role and he is against Rob Jones, plus backed up by Ashley Cole. That's a devastating left flank.

I think Ronaldo hit a height that even Henry never quite reached during that season, and a type of threat that not many players have ever had. I loved Henry and all - I remember saying and thinking at one point that I didn't think there was any difference between him and Ronaldo, but looking back I think there was something really quite special about that season. I thought it was crazy that he didn't win the World Player of the Year award - it was so clear cut. Cantona...I was young, but I saw enough of him then at Old Trafford and, far more importantly given age, enough since then to conclude that he wasn't as good as Ronaldo. Just my opinion, though.

The midfield is difficult in that Vieira and Fabregas is very strong, but it's the way the two midfields are set up that makes it difficult to decide. Not as easy as who is better than the other - having Alonso sitting deep could be crucial as far as Cantona goes. Worth remembering too that Essien at his very heights was amazing. It's just too hard to decide, and the difference between Fabregas and Alonso, if the comparison is to be drawn in spite of the differing roles, is not so vast as to make it a mismatch.

Perhaps that left side could swing it for Polaroid; I couldn't say I know enough about Jones as a player to say. Same era as Cantona, but Cantona played for United so I got a decent enough look at him then and from all the re-runs on MUTV, videos etc.

 

[Gio]

In light of the lead built up (14-4) and Polaroid's substitution, I will tweak the midfield to ensure that Cantona has no space to work from. His questionable contribution to the midfield battle should lead to a 3 v 2, where Vieira and Fabregas will struggle to keep up with Essien and Gerrard, both backed by Alonso.

Ronaldo and Zola will also swap flanks. The Italian can renew his rivalry with the Irishman:

 

[Polaroid]

Magnanimous of Theon there to give an objective analysis after our bruising semi-final

I wonder if people's perceptions of Ronaldo and Alonso have been influenced by their step up in performance level after joining Real Madrid.

PL statistics pulled from ESPN Soccernet website
Note: assists are recorded only from the 02/03 season onwards

C Ronaldo
03/04 - 28 appearances 4 goals 4 assists
04/05 - 33 appearances 5 goals 4 assists
05/06 - 33 appearances 9 goals 6 assists
06/07 - 34 appearances 17 goals 14 assists
07/08 - 34 appearances 31 goals 7 assists
08/09 - 33 appearances 18 goals 6 assists

Ronaldo's productivity was excellent in 06/07 and 07/08 but I don't think anyone will forget the sacrifice and hard work of his teammates on his behalf for the overall good of the team. Rooney for one - his output in 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 were 14 goals, 12 goals and 12 goals respectively. Decent numbers but his output exploded to 26 the season following Ronaldo's departure.

Thierry Henry
01/02 - 25 appearances 24 goals
02/03 - 37 appearances 24 goals 23 assists
03/04 - 37 appearances 30 goals 9 assists
04/05 - 37 appearances 25 goals 15 assists
06/07 - 32 appearances 27 goals 6 assists
07-08 - 17 appearances 10 goals 5 assists

This comparison may turn out to be academic as Rob Jones, Le Saux and Lehmann seem to be well on their way to becoming Premier League All-Time champions

 

[Polaroid]

In light of the lead built up (14-4) and Polaroid's substitution, I will tweak the midfield to ensure that Cantona has no space to work from. His questionable contribution to the midfield battle should lead to a 3 v 2, where Vieira and Fabregas will struggle to keep up with Essien and Gerrard, both backed by Alonso.

Ronaldo and Zola will also swap flanks. The Italian can renew his rivalry with the Irishman:

Zola vs Irwin means Ashley Cole on Ronaldo then
I think pulling Gerrard back from an attacking role behind the striker into centre midfield is not making the best use of him and detrimental to your team - he is notorious for his lack of positional discipline and giving away possession cheaply with his propensity for Hollywood balls. If he does not have the discipline to play in centre midfield, Essien and Alonso would be outplayed by Vieira, Fabregas and Cantona.

 

[KingEric7]

Magnanimous of Theon there to give an objective analysis after our bruising semi-final

I wonder if people's perceptions of Ronaldo and Alonso have been influenced by their step up in performance level after joining Real Madrid.

PL statistics pulled from ESPN Soccernet website
Note: assists are recorded only from the 02/03 season onwards

C Ronaldo
03/04 - 4 goals 4 assists
04/05 - 5 goals 4 assists
05/06 - 9 goals 6 assists
06/07 - 17 goals 14 assists
07/08 - 31 goals 7 assists
08/09 - 18 goals 6 assists

Ronaldo's productivity was excellent in 06/07 and 07/08 but I don't think anyone will forget the sacrifice and hard work of his teammates on his behalf for the overall good of the team. Rooney for one - his output in 06/07, 07/08 and 08/09 were 14 goals, 12 goals and 12 goals respectively. Decent numbers but his output exploded to 26 the season following Ronaldo's departure.

Thierry Henry
01/02 - 25 appearances 24 goals
02/03 - 37 appearances 24 goals 23 assists
03/04 - 37 appearances 30 goals 9 assists
04/05 - 37 appearances 25 goals 15 assists
06/07 - 32 appearances 27 goals 6 assists
07-08 - 17 appearances 10 goals 5 assists

This comparison may turn out to be academic as Rob Jones, Le Saux and Lehmann seem to be well on their way to becoming Premier League All-Time champions

Ronaldo at Madrid isn't necessarily a huge step up over the Ronaldo in his first great season. Different players, and that was the one season he had whereby he was absolutely amazing irrespective of assists/goals. Ronaldo at Madrid now is definitely better than the one in the season that followed though, in my opinion. With Alonso, I think it's more about the deep-lying role rather than just his quality.

I'm surprised this hasn't been closer, though. So little in it.

 

[Ish]

Shit, it's easy to forget how great Henry really was. Those stats are almost, unreal. (well it would be close to unreal if Messi and Ronaldo weren't taking the piss in La Liga!).

 

[Gio]

I'd be fully supportive of what you're saying about Gerrard - if he was playing as part of a midfield two or had the most disciplined role in the midfield (e.g. next to Lampard). As it is, he is part of a three - in front of a holding midfielder who he's excelled with before - and alongside the energetic and defensively robust Essien. Gerrard will obviously thrive on that midfield platform, the way he has done to build his reputation as one of the finest midfielders the Premiership has seen.

 

[antohan]

As far as I'm concerned Xabi was always going to be picking Cantona and Gerrard dropping back when not in posession. The ability of that midfield three to switch from 1-2 to 2-1 as and when is one of Gio's strong points. Ronaldo is the other and I think that's the more significant change with him moving to the other flank and Cole not getting as much support as Irwin did from Valencia (in that scenario Pol was running away with it hands down to me: Ronaldo quiet and Cole-Overmars having complete freedom against Jones, good switch).

Tough choice here as there's little in it. Gio has the most eyesores and mismatches going against him (GK, FB), but makes up for that with a formidable spine. Pol has quality across the board and both a strong spine and flanks.

I'll spare you all the detailed breakdown and go straight to what most strikes me: Gio is too Ronaldo dependent. Take Ronaldo out of that side (even substitute him with a top winger) and he suddenly looks a whole lot less dangerous. The same doesn't hold for Pol.

You could argue Henry is as important but 1. did he ever have a bad game at his peak?, 2. the attack is not as dependent on him, 3. if he had a bad game you could throw RvP on. Who would come on for Ronaldo? No one that keeps that side competitive.

I analyse each matchup, each player, and they are mostly great players who could do what is asked from them and prevail. What keeps hitting me in the head is that dependency, and players do have the occasional bad game, Ronaldo in particular did if you got him a bit frustrated.

 

[Cutch]

I'd be fully supportive of what you're saying about Gerrard - if he was playing as part of a midfield two or had the most disciplined role in the midfield (e.g. next to Lampard). As it is, he is part of a three - in front of a holding midfielder who he's excelled with before - and alongside the energetic and defensively robust Essien. Gerrard will obviously thrive on that midfield platform, the way he has done to build his reputation as one of the finest midfielders the Premiership has seen.

Absolutely. Pols clutchin at straws a bit with those reservations. You've given Gerrard the perfect platform to influence all over the pitch.

 

[Ash_G]

I think Gio comfortably wins the midfield battle imo and has a more balanced team overall. Pols team is a great collection of players and I think this version of his team is better balanced than in the previous round but Gio's team has plenty of steel and work rate and some great attacking options.

 

[antohan]

That start with Silva has proven costly. It's one of the bizarre things about this games that the more conservative/defensively sound/controlling side got Pol to run up a 10-vote deficit and the more aggressive option keeps him on a draw.

I've been at the receiving end of too many people voting en masse early on in a final and having to play catch up thereafter. Not pretty

 

[Polaroid]

Absolutely. Pols clutchin at straws a bit with those reservations. You've given Gerrard the perfect platform to influence all over the pitch.

His lack of positional discipline and propensity for giving away possession cheaply is the reason why he is not on the same level as Keane and Vieira as a centre midfielder. He is best utilised in an advanced role just behind the striker where he has the freedom to make runs and shoot, as proven by his partnership with Torres. Pulling him back into centre midfield encourages him to play his Hollywood balls giving away possession cheaply. At Liverpool, there is Mascherano as a specialist ball-winner sitting deep to cover for Gerrard and protect Alonso. Essien can do the job sitting deep to cover for the positional indiscipline of Gerrad and protect Alonso, no problem but that curtails Essien from performing to his full potential as he is at his best in a box-to-box role. Also do not forget that in addition to Vieira, Fabregas and Cantona, I have Valencia and Overmars who are far more likelyto help in midfield than Ronaldo and Zola.

All these tactical arguments about midfield control may not mean much to the voter anyway - afterall nobody, bar Anto, paid any attention to Gilberto Silva's impact on the midfield dynamics. Oddly, people have a far bigger issue with Henry cutting in from wide than Zola doing the same. It also seems that people are turning a blind eye in letting Gio get away with Rob Jones vs Overmars and Le Saux vs Valencia Those two along with Lehmann will be laughing their way to the podium I want some of those magic wool that he pulls over people's eyes!

 

[Gio]

A far better winger in Ryan Giggs was unable to get much joy out of Rob Jones - who had pace to burn - so I'm not too concerned about Overmars. Equally, Graeme Le Saux was first-choice for England for most of the 1990s, usurped a top left-back in Stuart Pearce, and has about 60 caps for the national team. Up against someone of Ronaldo's ilk then, perhaps yes, he would struggle, but against Valencia I'm less convinced.

 

[Polaroid]

That start with Silva has proven costly. It's one of the bizarre things about this games that the more conservative/defensively sound/controlling side got Pol to run up a 10-vote deficit and the more aggressive option keeps him on a draw.

I've been at the receiving end of too many people voting en masse early on in a final and having to play catch up thereafter. Not pretty

i blame you Anto for recruiting me into your tactical analysis club I should stick to the voter-friendly big names instead of bringing in Silva to do a tactical job

 

[Polaroid]

A far better winger in Ryan Giggs was unable to get much joy out of Rob Jones - who had pace to burn - so I'm not too concerned about Overmars. Equally, Graeme Le Saux was first-choice for England for most of the 1990s, usurped a top left-back in Stuart Pearce, and has about 60 caps for the national team. Up against someone of Ronaldo's ilk then, perhaps yes, he would struggle, but against Valencia I'm less convinced.

Bit disingenuous there Gio
Rob Jones caught a 17 year old Giggs on a off day (it happens, we know his inconsistency, especially when young) in 1991 (before the Premier League started by the way) and you used the label "Tamer of Ryan Giggs" as the barometer of his performance in the Premier League when in truth, he never sustained a performance level high enough to qualify among the top 10 Premier league fullbacks, even in a relatively barren era (the competition criteria is performance over sustained period of at least 100 appearances as you already know). Jones was not able to dislodge Lee Dixon from the England squad and was subsequently displaced by Jason McAteer at Liverpool. Could you quote the source where Giggs rated Jones as his toughest opponent?

Le Saux only displaced Pearce after the latter was in his mid-thirties
Le Saux only had 36 caps - a low count for someone who was in your words first choice throughout most of the 90s?
Le Saux is far more suited against someone like Beckham. Against someone with Valencia's pace and strength, he would struggle IMO

 

[Rood]

A far better winger in Ryan Giggs was unable to get much joy out of Rob Jones - who had pace to burn - so I'm not too concerned about Overmars. Equally, Graeme Le Saux was first-choice for England for most of the 1990s, usurped a top left-back in Stuart Pearce, and has about 60 caps for the national team. Up against someone of Ronaldo's ilk then, perhaps yes, he would struggle, but against Valencia I'm less convinced.

I think you are making way too much of a one off game where Jones may have had a good day against Giggs (and I cant even remember this happening TBH) - it was probably the highlight of his career!
I said it in the last round and will say it again, Jones is by far the shittest player involved here but if you can get away with being weak in any area then fullback or keeper is the one.

Fair comment on Le Saux though - he was a good player for sure.

i blame you Anto for recruiting me into your tactical analysis club I should stick to the voter-friendly big names instead of bringing in Silva to do a tactical job

I knew that decision would be your downfall - your team looks far better now, but too late I think.

 

[antohan]

A far better winger in Ryan Giggs was unable to get much joy out of Rob Jones - who had pace to burn - so I'm not too concerned about Overmars. Equally, Graeme Le Saux was first-choice for England for most of the 1990s, usurped a top left-back in Stuart Pearce, and has about 60 caps for the national team. Up against someone of Ronaldo's ilk then, perhaps yes, he would struggle, but against Valencia I'm less convinced.

Le Saux didn't usurp Pearce, he just got old! Good wingback indeed, but Valencia is the sort who should give him a lot of trouble, while hampering his ability to do what he did best (provide a credible wide option, particularly when England never seem to have any good left wingers).

You have to agree Overmars and Valencia will get quite a bit of joy down their respective flanks and, at the very least, result in you lacking width upfront due to lack of support from your fullbacks.

Ronaldo is your only genuine source of width and is looked after by arguably the best leftback in the draft and one who has kept him quiet before, which is why I highlight that as a significant weakness in your gameplan. If Cole handles Ronaldo (50-50) you end up with very limited options.

It all becomes rather central, which plays into Adams and Desailly's hands. I rate your CB pair higher and if given the choice in any draft I would pick yours as a more complete combo, but the way the game is laid out I think they will have a much harder job ahead of them being pulled all over the place to cover the threat out wide while being pulled apart by Fabregas-Cantona-Henry through the middle.