Pressing| Why did we wait till the second half.

[kthanksbye]

You run a high risk of isolating someone like Lindelof 1v1 against Willian, or McTominay 1v1 against Hazard, both of which happened and are not exactly desirable situations in Jose's books and rightly so.
Then there's this about having the stamina to do that for 90 mins. I think we used the pressing really well yesterday, absorbed pressure at the right times, made the right subs, it was a near perfect big game performance.

 

[meamth]

One more thing I noticed about last night's game is we preferred more to intercepting play.

I noticed there were so many successful interceptions by Mctominay and Matic in the 2nd half. 1 player forcing the opposition to make a mistake when in posession and give an easy route to pass. That is much better than high pressing.

 

[Denis' cuff]

I also think Chelsea dropped back and played more conservatively after half time. I think Conte was wary of our counter, despite our general play not being that brilliant. To our credit, we took full @dvantage.

 

[Member 90887]

The answer is as obvious as we don't have the player for that like we don't have the player to play expensive football, we saw what happened when we tried it against teams that do. i would trust Jose with the tactics. he knows what he is doing. if he tought that pressing is the better way of approaching games with the team we have, he would have used it.

 

[blackhawk747]

I think the comeback is down to the tactical gamble failure by Conte. He set his team to play pure counter in the 2nd half, made his forward far away from the mid and def thus created space for us to dominate

 

[Lawman]

Think McTominay settling better into position the second half gave us a base to do this.
It disrupted the Chelsea pattern of play (working to feet through the middle) and they started to take an extra pass or touch allowing us to press easier.

 

[ivaldo]

This tactic comes straight from Mourinho, as soon as the team seems to be attacking and getting on the front foot leaving a bit more space in behind he gets nervous and puts on the break. We saw it with subbing of Sanchez for Bailley and that wasn’t the first time he has done that. Luckily for the disallowed goal otherwise who knows what would’ve happened in the last 5 min.

EVERY manager does that. Hell, against us earlier in the season Pep subbed off Jesus - their only striker - for Mangala before the hour mark.

 

[roonster09]

Think McTominay settling better into position the second half gave us a base to do this.
It disrupted the Chelsea pattern of play (working to feet through the middle) and they started to take an extra pass or touch allowing us to press easier.

McTominay and Matic were good defensively, they closed down well as a team which means Matic wasn't alone as holding mid. This also allowed Pogba to push forward and play the passes.

Sort of helped everyone.

 

[el3mel]

EVERY manager does that. Hell, against us earlier in the season Pep subbed off Jesus - their only striker - for Mangala before the hour mark.

No, according to Caf logic we should have put in another attacker and pushed forward leaving more spaces open so that even if we conceded the 2-2 we would still played great football anyway.

 

[Greck]

I also think Chelsea dropped back and played more conservatively after half time. I think Conte was wary of our counter, despite our general play not being that brilliant. To our credit, we took full @dvantage.

This. After watching us especially in big games this season, how Conte would willingly surrender the initiative is amazing in a bad way. So far this season we've struggled to wrestle control of meaningful possession from anyone having a go at us.

Imo this was yet another case of pragmatism outsmarting itself. Of course we deserve credit for capitalising in a way we haven't done in recent times but the Chelsea fans crying about the offside goal need to look at their manager instead

 

[Lawman]

McTominay and Matic were good defensively, they closed down well as a team which means Matic wasn't alone as holding mid. This also allowed Pogba to push forward and play the passes.

Sort of helped everyone.

Yeah agree with you but more so the second half.

 

[NoLogo]

It's generally something I feel we don't employ enough. City is pretty much showcasing that the PL is the perfect league for pressing because a lot of smaller fouls simply get ignored by the ref so going in hard and early pays off imo.

 

[TheReligion]

We certainly looked much better winning the ball higher up the pitch and showing more aggression.

It's obviously part tactics and part the players. Alexis and Lukaku were pressing all day but others not so much. The tactic only really works when it's done collectively as otherwise you leave space in the areas the team fails to press into which can be disastrous. The tactic also saps energy and leaves you tired late on (see Liverpool).

I think it's not our primary tactic but is something we can do for phases of a game. What I would like to see us employ this for spells in every game regardless of the result, that way it's not viewed as something we do simply when chasing.

Matic, Mctominay and Lingard were both excellent in this regard in the second half and for me helped change the game.

 

[RedPnutz]

Conservative pressing, meaning to store stamina so we can have a go at them later. This is to get that important goal at the most important time.

Unlike Liverpool who will lose that intensity and will mostly concede goals at the last minute.

This. It appears we prefer to defend and suss out the opponent in the first half then adapt and attack in the second.

That helps us conserve energy over the season.

 

[RedStarUnited]

The mentions of Liverpool in this thread are annoying. If you watched all the top teams in the CL you would have noticed nearly all of them apply pressure from the front. From your PSG, Madrid, Barcelona etc all do it.

And its just that we dont press, I find that we dont even close passing angles and we allow teams to get into our final third too often and too easily.

Also, Lukaku and Martial are horrible at being in the right place to intercept a pass or closing angles. They allow defenders to just walk out with the ball.

 

[CA1]

I love Mourinho but this is a bug bear of mine. At home to any team we should be pressing them. We let them settle far too easy yesterday.

And what a coincedence that when we started to be more aggressive we started to hurt them and Chelsea suddenly didn't look so assured.

There was a moment in the first half where Matic did a strong tackle in the middle of the park, I thought to myself that's the first time we've pressed and put a foot in and Sanchez had a great chance about 5-7 second later. Football is not that complicated.

 

[RedPnutz]

This. After watching us especially in big games this season, how Conte would willingly surrender the initiative is amazing in a bad way. So far this season we've struggled to wrestle control of meaningful possession from anyone having a go at us.

Imo this was yet another case of pragmatism outsmarting itself. Of course we deserve credit for capitalising in a way we haven't done in recent times but the Chelsea fans crying about the offside goal need to look at their manager instead

It could be because Matic and McTominay were doing their job well which created fewer openings for Hazard and Willian. Perhaps Conte sought to draw us out higher on the pitch so he could exploit the more open spaces behind.

 

[Redphantom]

Looking at you game yesterday, it looks like Jose instructed the players to be a lot more compact because you looked wide open in the first half. The space afforded to both Hazard and Willian in the first half looked suicidal.

 

[Ish]

Energy conservation?

 

[cyril C]

High pressing, meant 2 things. Players spent a lot of energy and no way they can do it for full 90min, regardless of how fit you are. Secondly, high pressing means defensive lines pushing up, leaving gaps at the back.

 

[haram]

It does actually make sense to let the opposition press and to save our energy for the last 30 mins. Then we can press and they no longer have the energy to either press or counter, hence we can stay on top of them.

You can look at it in different ways. Soaking pressure would be much more effective if we transitioned better though.

 

[arthurka]

We should press more...

 

[londonredmaniac]

Complaining | Why do some do it even after a brilliant performance?

What the feck were you watching??

How were we brilliant? :Lol:

 

[Adisa]

I find the references to Liverpool baffling. No one is saying we should go all Liverpool.
My opinion is we don't do it anywhere near enough. We retreat against every team that deploys the press and almost never counts press. When we do, our players look more comfortable. I think it's something we should do more away from home.
Quite often when we allow our opponents dominant territory, we don't recover. I think it's cost us a lot of points away.
In terms of energy levels, I think Spurs have the right balance. Although they're an aggressive team, they have no problem defending space from a low block at intervals.
Not sure if Mourinho agrees but it's something I'd like to see us do more often.
I think we're capable.

 

[LisburnWhite]

yes I agree

we look our worst when we sit back and attack slowly

when we are proactive, play with energy and movement and attack quickly we are a different side

it does beg the question - does Mourinho not see this?

the second half the intensity improved but the movement of Lukaku and Lingard made the difference I felt

I suppose the question is...do we work hard enough? Here's a table of km covered on average and we are bottom - https://www.premierleague.com/news/510837

If you look below the main table you can see that Matic is the 4th highest player for distance covered this season in the EPL (128km)
No wonder he looks a bit tired at times, think the pairing with McTominay will do the both of them a world of good.

 

[diplomat]

yes I agree

we look our worst when we sit back and attack slowly

when we are proactive, play with energy and movement and attack quickly we are a different side

it does beg the question - does Mourinho not see this?

the second half the intensity improved but the movement of Lukaku and Lingard made the difference I felt

I suppose the question is...do we work hard enough? Here's a table of km covered on average and we are bottom - https://www.premierleague.com/news/510837

I've been saying this since joining the forum. Adding intensity, tenacity and a bit more pressing in our game and we would be up there with City for sure.

It would make us a completely different team and we should start implementing these things with more confidence, considering we are very solid at the back thanks to defensive organisation and DDG.

 

[VeevaVee]

We too often seem to go out with the idea of getting the opposition to fall into the slow tempo we play, then hope to nick a goal. It worked pretty well against Chelsea, and at least we didn't go out there entirely on the backfoot like we've done with other big teams. It's never convincing though, even against average/crap teams.

I do wish we'd up the intensity, at least a notch for our regular play, and a couple more more often. Both Sanchez and Martial's football would benefit and Lukaku would be able to do more of what he's best at - just batting it into the net. We'd see defences leaving space and be able to capitalise on it.

 

[Greck]

It could be because Matic and McTominay were doing their job well which created fewer openings for Hazard and Willian. Perhaps Conte sought to draw us out higher on the pitch so he could exploit the more open spaces behind.

That was most likely what he had in mind but it meant they couldn't exploit our weaknesses. We had Smalling and Young in defense so they could have pressed high and we would have hoofed it and taken ourselves out of the game. They gave Pogba and our midfield all the time in the world to pick a forward pass. We've always stuttered through games where our midfield was crowded and our defense was closed down.

Hope they miss the CL. They've been loving our last few weeks of turmoil while being worse off than us

 

[r0663664]

I think this will be how we play football at United at Jose at the helm. I hope Jose changes the tactic, he should push the defensive midfielder further up the pitch. If the midfielder don't sit too deep, we are effectively reducing the space for football. That way we can "press" and win back the ball faster. Tottenham, City and Liverpool are excellent playing this way. I hope we can achieve it one day.

 

[Lentwood]

If you’re going to press you have to press as a team. Even the worst PL teams will knock it around at will if it’s just three players pressing four or similar

I think Lukaku is actively told not to press. The guy must be 14st. Can’t be chasing around like a dog after a tennis ball! Pogba and Martial just aren’t naturals. You could see Pogba tried much harder to make a defensive contribution yesterday so fair play, but they still think a second too slowly defensively. McTominay was asked to man-mark Hazard so again not conducive to a press.

I personally don’t think pressing is the issue. It’s defensive shape. I’m happy to let teams come at us and for us to counter, but only if we have that two-man shield in midfield because we start getting ourselves into trouble when we ask the likes of Pogba, Martial and Sanchez to do jobs they can’t do

 

[ValenciaRocks]

What I particularly liked in this game was Lukaku goal. That quick intricate passing leading up to the goal is something we haven't seen a lot of since the beginning of the season.

We should be atempting to recreate that sharp movement in the final third. It was a great team goal and Chelsea couldn't deal with it.

In terms of pressing, I agree that it doesn't make sense to press like Liverpool do as many people have mentioned it can't be sustained throughout the entire 90 minutes. I do think that we should be forcing our opponents into long balls though as we have height in the middle with Pogba, Matic and Mctomminay.

The main issue for me is that, especially in the first half, we struggled to maintain possession. We kept giving the ball away in dangerous parts of the field. The second half was much better as we looked more composed on the ball.

On a side note, I'm glad that even though we won we aren't 100% happy with the performance. We did well but we know we can do much better which is a good sign.

 

[breakout67]

Our forwards:

Martial (piss poor presser of the ball)
Lukaku (can press, but due to his frame will get tired)
Mata (can press, but due to his frame is easy to hold off)
Sanchez (fantastic presser of the ball)
Rashford (good presser of the ball)

The press starts from the front

 

[Smores]

Some of the comments in here are wierd (not really the OP), are people not used to us playing this way? It's what we've always done outside of a few periods (mainly with Tevez but only from front)

I happen to like the pressing game but i came to respect the wisdom behind standing off a long time ago.

In a general sense i don't think we have the players, our guys are built as sprinters, not many of them are fleet footed enough (Herrera, Young and Sanchez maybe??)

 

[The Hacker]

Conservative pressing, meaning to store stamina so we can have a go at them later. This is to get that important goal at the most important time.

Unlike Liverpool who will lose that intensity and will mostly concede goals at the last minute.

But Liverpool, on the whole, are already out of sight by then so the risk of it impacting their outcome is reduced. If we do adopt this tactic then we run the risk of not getting anything from the match as it’s too late to turn it on after 70 min of placid play.

 

[kundalini]

We barely changed our team from the FA cup game on Sat, through the CL match to the Chelsea match. Young, Smalling, Lindelof, Matic, McTominay, Sanchez and Lukaku started all 3 games. Valencia played CL and Chelsea. Pogba most of CL then Chelsea. The only relatively fresh starter we had was Martial, who is not really known for his work off the ball.

Compare that to Chelsea who used fringe players in their FA cup game on the friday, then played Barca on the tuesday, so had an extra day to recover. If Mourinho had wanted to turn it into a physical battle, he would have needed to rotate a lot more than he did.

In simple terms, I don't think we had the legs to risk it, given the team selected.

 

[Tincanalley]

Conservative pressing, meaning to store stamina so we can have a go at them later. This is to get that important goal at the most important time.

Unlike Liverpool who will lose that intensity and will mostly concede goals at the last minute.

El Prematuro (Klopp too Soonio) Gegenpressio, I believe it is called in the business.

 

[eat_grass]

if we aren't pressing aggressively it has to be a managerial instruction

it's not like the players decide themselves

Mourinho literally said in the post-match thread the players weren't pressing because they weren't used to the system yet, and when they settled into it, they started to press like Mourinho had instructed them to do.

 

[AP88]

High pressing, meant 2 things. Players spent a lot of energy and no way they can do it for full 90min, regardless of how fit you are. Secondly, high pressing means defensive lines pushing up, leaving gaps at the back.

Exactly, unless you have Guardiola’s, er, nutritional guidance.....you cannot sustain a perpetual press over 90 minutes in the Premier League. Liverpool and Spurs try, and burn out accordingly.

Mourinho knows when to do it and when to sit, it’s about getting the right players to do it; Pogba and Martial sabotage it sometimes with their lack of intensity.

 

[Zlatattack]

I suspect it's because our team is a little fragile mentally. If you press, you ought to press as a team, that means the defence pushing up. This would leave space at the back for the counter. No team benefits from going 1-0 down early, but this bunch of shrinking violets seem to spend the rest of the game wondering what could have been rather than trying to get 2 goals.

 

[Trizy]

High pressing, meant 2 things. Players spent a lot of energy and no way they can do it for full 90min, regardless of how fit you are. Secondly, high pressing means defensive lines pushing up, leaving gaps at the back.

A high line is fine when you have defenders are fast as Bailey, Smalling, Valencia and Shaw.