Cyclingcross and mountain biking are very similar. Cyclingcross is very much a Dutch/Flemmish thing. Mountain biking has a far more global appeal hence far more examples of mountain bikers turning to road racing.
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Yeah, so?
"There are plenty of example of cycling crossing & montain bikers turning in to climbers in road racing" were your actual words. I just pointed out that this is not true, since there are no examples of cyclo crossers turning into climbers.
Also firmly disagree that they're similar but that's for another discussion.
Bet you argue with your own shadow.. are you disagreeing that cyclingcross and mountain biking are very similar? Biggest difference are the bikes.
This is such an intriguing stage. Best one in ages!
It's like comparing tennis and squash ffs - basically the only real similarity are the bikes.
That’s utter bullshit. A cross cycle bike is a slightly modified road bike, mountain bike is a mountain bike.
I disagree that they are very similar to be honest. Cyclo cross is pretty much flat most of the time. There's some races that have climbs like the Koppenberg and Spa-Francorchamps but compared to MTB it's very limited. MTB is constantly climbing and descending and you can see the evidence of that as it produces far more road race elite climbers. In cyclo cross, it's all about riding in sand, mud and even snow depending on the weather (it's mostly a winter sport after all) on generally flat but very twisty circuits.
It's clear that both disciplines require/produce two different types of riders, generally speaking: cyclo cross produces Spring classics specialists and MTB produces elite climbers.
Christ that was close, I didn't know who won there.
Groenewegen just takes it. He's the man.
Groenewegen just takes it. He's the man.
Ewan close but Groenewegen more than deserved it, he was in the wind earlier as well. Very strong sprint.
I'm struggling to see how MTB lends itself to developing elite climbers. Any MTB race I've seen is up and down, rugged terrain and narrow trails. If anything they produce riders road racers with excellent bike handling -Sagan being the obvious example.
If anything id say MTB produces great descenders (again thanks to advanced bike handling).
Yes, there are many elite climbers that have done mountain biking ( Lance etc) but id argue that is coincidental. ( as a function of stamina).
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Groenewegen has the edge. Very impressive sprinter overall.
Personally I think they are very alike. I wonder if some believe mountain biking means biking up and down high mountains.
Cross and MTB will improve your technical skills but don’t make you a climber. It’s all about the amount of wattage your legs can turn in cross/MTB/climbing. Whilst sprinting and track racing is far more about explosive capabilities. Van Aert is explosive but can also generate a high wattage. That means he must have an incredible weight/wattage ratio, ideal for cycling up mountains fast. So you can imagine later in his career when he’s won some spring classics etc him trying his hand at GC contender. It would be a gamble, but not beyond the realms of possibility.
I agree with you.
Great ride from Thomas de Gendt!
You both look clueless in this discussion. Generating a high wattage doesn’t mean you have an incredible weight/wattage ratio at all, feck sake. The highest wattages are put up by the likes of Boonen and other pure sprinters in bunch sprints for a very short time, which is something Van Aert indeed excels at. He doesn’t have an ideal weight/wattage ratio to be a climber though, and he won’t sacrifice his power to lose weight. Climbing is generating the highest wattages possible which are sustainable for a long period of time (currently at just above 6 Watt/kg in the mountaine, while riders go up to 1500 Watt during bunch sprints).
But by all means, believe that he could be a GC contender in the future. I’ll be here after his career, pointing out that he’s never ended in the top 10 or 20 in a grand tour.
If you don’t believe me, try to translate some of the works of Paul van den Bosch and Peter Hespel, and you’ll maybe understand what kind of role wattages, weight and VO2 Max play for a cyclist.
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Slow down you hot head. Don't need physiology lessons, although always keen to be educated.I wasnt agreeing with the power; weight ratios.
I agree that be someone like Van Aert could potentially become a climber later in his career if he made the necessary adjustments in training and body shape and size.
Not all grand tour winners are tiny manlets. Ulrich, who IIRC is one of your favourite GT riders was certainly one of the heavier ones.
Regarding the bolded part, I'll leave you in your delusional state that what you say is most likely to happen. Continue.
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You start off your post by calling ‘us’ clueless and then you prove my point in the very same thread. Van Aert’s excellent at time trialing and he’s explosive. So he can sustain high wattage for long periods whilst pummeling relatively high gears. Pretty useful traits. I also read & heard some interesting things about him and training with his Jumbo team at altitude.
He did that to prepare himself for the Dauphiné, to survive in the mountains. I wouldn't read any more into it. In any case, we can debate about cyclo cross, MTB and Van Aert's climbing potential until the end of days but the simple fact is his heart is with cyclo cross and Spring classics. I don't see that changing any time soon (I personally don't see that ever changing, but you never know I guess).
It's daft to have a cycling argument with belgians.
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Why?
Because we live and breathe cycling and think we know everything about it of course.
What @Ainu said. I have been lurking that conversation from the beginning and knew how it was going to end. Rams would be deemed clueless or dumb.
Well, he hasn't said or argued anything which makes me want to reconsider my opinion, regardless of his nationality. With each additional post, I got more agitated by the things he got wrong.What @Ainu said. I have been lurking that conversation from the beginning and knew how it was going to end. Rams would be deemed clueless or dumb.
That's the point. I agree with you but I wonder if @Rams isn't using Alaphillipe as an example of cyclo crosser who is a relatively good climber, though he isn't a great one despite winning the mountain classification. For me it's clear that cyclo crossers generally become puncheurs and are therefore prolific on classics.
Van Aert! Needs confirmation but it looks like it. So fecking strong!
Edit: there it is! He beats a bunch of elite sprinters in the Tour, surreal.
Edit: there it is! He beats a bunch of elite sprinters in the Tour, surreal.
Wout Van Aert, climber-sprinter, the second most talented Wout and all-round belgian redcafe love-doll, wins sprint with Viviani unimpressed! #You'll never be a Poels.
Unreal Beats Sagan, Matthews, Ewan and Viviani in a bunch sprint in the Tour
Wasn't ideally placed either, Ewan was in the best position beforehand but clearly lacks something. I think Viviani initially overtook Van Aert as well but he mistimed his jump.
Beats Sagan, Matthews, Ewan and Viviani in a bunch sprint in the Tour Wasn't ideally placed either, Ewan was in the best position beforehand but clearly lacks something. I think Viviani initially overtook Van Aert as well but he mistimed his jump.
Thomas the defacto leader of the tour with Bernal right there behind him. Looking good for Ineos.
It's not great for the excitement in the GC. Pinot was looking strong but he's fecked now. We've seen in recent years how hard it is to attack Ineos in the mountains. I fear a procession from now on.
Getting a bit boring how Sky year after year systematically rip apart all their rivals. As always the only GC excitement will be which of their riders will win it.
A new sprint, a new winner. There's no dominant sprinter like when Cav or Kittel were at their best. I thought Groenewegen would become the one but he's not quite there.
Kristoff is so full of shit. Always blaming everything and everyone else for his failures.
This is the worst bunch of sprinters I've seen in the tour for quite some years by the way. Barguil making top 10 on a flat stage proves that.
This is the worst bunch of sprinters I've seen in the tour for quite some years by the way. Barguil making top 10 on a flat stage proves that.
Rohan Dennis abandoned and no one knows why.
Poor show by Yates attacking his teammate Trentin in the lead.
Because we live and breathe cycling and think we know everything about it of course.
It’s a religion. Can’t win arguments about religion because zealots get too entrenched.
Wout should be the big favorite for tomorrow.
Yup. Haven’t had a detailed look at the rest of the field but who’s his biggest threat? Kung, Thomas himself? Martin isn’t what he used to be... Big favourite for tomorrow, and 2 stages in a Tour he took on a month’s notice is madness.
Thomas is the biggest threat tomorrow.
I talked to my buddy who is the start line emcee for the TDF (you can hear him tomorrow announcing the riders as they leave the tt ramp) he likes Wout as well for tomorrow after seeing him in person at the Dauphine.