Quaranteam Draft - QF: Enigma vs Sjor

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

..................................................... TEAM ENIGMA ............................................................................................................ TEAM SJOR ...........................................................


TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-3
Style: direct, press in the middle, don't give opposition much time on the ball. Counter at will at every opportunity and turn defence into attack. Quick transitions and open up space between opposition wing backs and wide CB's with two fast and direct wide forwards in Robben and Blokhin.

Defence:
Oliver Kahn is our last line of defence - one of Bayern and Germany all time greats is a complete keeper who had an enormous presence in the box and one of the greatest commanding his area. Alongside him is his partner in crime - Bixente Lizarazu who won it all at every level and was instrumental in both phases in the game. His overlapping runs will come in handy with Villa cutting in and attacking the box. Eric Gerets is another full back famous for his engine and stamina levels, that can allow him man the whole flank. He will be supporting Robben. Ciro Ferrara and Bergomi are familiar couple, each one of them pretty complete defenders being able to play in multiple positions and comfortable on the ball.

Midfield:
Toninho Cerezo comes to the fore and at the base is in his familiar role screening the defense and also start attacks from deep. Having Villa, Robben and Blokhin running behind the defence gives him a multiple targets to start quick and lethal counters when the opposition is on the backfoot. Alongside him we have our very own United legend and midfield general in Bryan Robson who provides us withe the engine and presence in the middle of the pitch, but has also the fluid passing game to get things ticking in the middle of the park. He plays with a lot of intensity that would put pressure on the opposition and force mistakes. Iniesta will be in his best and familiar role - break and move between the lines, drive the ball forward and link with the attack. His dribbling ability will give us numerical advantage in the final third an the ability to see the pass and release a team mate is appreciated, especially when we have a fluid front three with great off the ball movement. Cerezo brings more physicality to our midfield whilst not losing an eye for the pass from deep and alongside Robbo a lot of energy and bustling stamina levels to help our transition in both phases of the game.

Attack:
Fluid and interchangeable front three is a mix of goalscoring ability, off the ball presence, pace and technique can give any opposition a torrid time. Robben and Blokhin are absolutely devastating catching defenders on the backfoot and they have bundle of creativity behind them. Opposition will most likely field a 5-3-2/3-5-2 where the key to unlock that defence is the space left between the wing backs and the wide CB's and we have exactly the type of players to unlock that defence, whilst Villa is leading the attack with his incredible movement and ability to stretch the defence and move them drag them outside position.

TEAM SJOR


Classic 352 that can easily transform itself into a 433 if needed. Aim was to give a platform to best offensive wingbacks of all time, given EAP kindly gifted me Cafu i now have 2 best ones which makes this theme absolutely worth it. Usually they are there just to make a formation "work" and to provide width, nah feck that, lets put them in key roles and use them as main weapon as they are used in the modern game. Specially wanted to highlight Marcelo there who won so many games on his own for that great Real Madrid side, absolutely insane footballer.
To make it easier for them they have a back 3 behind with one of the best 3 at the back specialist in Azpilicueta and the great Ruggeri. Leading that defence is Hector Chumpitaz, brilliant with the ball and even better without it, not many can marshal the whole back line as him given his football intelligence and defensive organizational skills. Behind that wall there is another wall, the great wall of russia - at worst second best keeper in history of the game, Lev Yashin.

Engine room of Gazza and Deschamps, everything you ever want from your midfield. In Gazza you get a hard working genius whose level went up with the quality of his opponent which pretty much makes him a perfect draft player. What to say about Deschamps, absolute dream player that IMO is underrated as feck for reasons i cant really understand, maybe he is boring? Leader, winner, great character and a fantastic footballer who even though could play often was taking the back seat for more formidable teammates, a perfect teammate and his trophy cabinet reflects that - 5 CL finals with 3 different teams(won it twice with Juve and Marseille, lost twice with Juve and with Valencia), 5 league titles, Italian cup, Intercontinental Cup, FA Cup, World Cup and Euro.
Tactically both fit each other and the team given both were disciplined workhorses that wont have any issues with covering out wide when needed for 2 bombing wingbacks.
At number 10 is Gianni Rivera. Given absolute freedom in possession while will still contribute heavily in the defensive phase, wouldnt pick him otherwise. One of the best if not the best offensive midfielder in history of AC Milan and Italy.

Up front two hard working maniacs in Tostao and Suarez and thats pretty much only thing they have in common. One is a wild card, goalscoring machine that will do everything to win while the other is a selfless genius that doesnt mind taking a back seat if needed so could easily see him and Rivera enjoying each other company on the pitch while Suarez getting the benefits.

Tactics
Its a team that is easily capable of dominating possession and playing a quick direct football so playing style would be adaptive but leaning more to a direct counter-attacking style, at least at the start

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Enigma_87 @Šjor Bepo All the best!

 

[harms]

Anything?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Anything?

Only got here but we sort of agreed we would only answer questions about our team, that went to shit considering everyone is ignoring the game.

Have to say i dont really rate enigma team even though i adore pretty much every player in it.
Prefer Bergomi as a fullback, Gerets a bit pointless as a balanced one, Robson looks weird as feck in this midfield, even more so then in first game. Attack reminds me of current United one when Cavani starts with Green and Rashford. No balance, lets stick all the goals in and pray for the best.
Love the decision to give Villa the central stage as im one of the rare ones that prefers and rates that version higher but very poor fit for other two.

Have to say first round team was better, Xabi is better then Cerezo and a better fit for Robbo while Greaves glued that attack better.

 

[Isotope]

It's really a close game.
That Blohin bloke makes a big difference in Enigma's attack. If that Iniesta - Mendieta work, this Iniesta - Robson should work also, yes?

 

[harms]

Mendieta is pretty different from Robson

 

[Isotope]

Mendieta is pretty different from Robson

In what way, man? Place Mendieta in that United team, I think it would work also.

 

[harms]

In what way, man? Place Mendieta in that United team, I think it would work also.

Mendieta was more technically refined I'd say*, plus he's had that tendency to move to the right inside channel, which suits Iniesta who occupies the opposite one.

*Robson was a better player overall by the way, just wanted to clear it up.

 

[Enigma_87]

Will reply more later, but couple of things to start with.

Defence - Gerets/Robben flank needs no introduction, but the reason why he's preferred choice to Bergomi is that he's better at showing support in attack and his ability to run up and down the flank. Given that the opposition plays 3-5-2 it's key here so that it allows Robben to run between the lines and break the opposition formation which would allow us to have more openings in front of goal. Bergomi needs no introduction but I probably rate him a bit more as a stopper compared to full back as his rugged play and positional awareness makes him a pretty apt choice to stack up against Suarez or Tostao. Ferrara too is pretty technical from the back and a really nice choice to combat what Tostao/Suarez have to offer.

Midfield part - Robbo was pretty technical player as well and great passer to boot. He wasn't refined as Xavi(well who is?) and not the little magician type to recycle possession, but neither is his role here. It's a direct side which relies on quick transitions and high energy in the middle of the park to turn defence into attack and release our front three with quick interplay or pass into space. Both Cerezo and Robson are great at that. His one two's also allow him to link with Iniesta and gain space which I do not see any problem with them combining when we are on the ball. Iniesta being questioned is something I expected but again from what I've see from him for the Spanish national team he is pretty good at breaking the lines and playing like a high energy, pressing AM in a 4-3-3 - which is a role that he excels and also his dribbling ability underlines how he can gain space and advantage for us in the attacking third.

Iniesta also performed in multiple roles for the NT - winger both sides, AM, CM, alongside not only 3-4 but also 5 midfielders (the 4-6-0) and he linked up pretty well without any performance issues. He's as versatile midfielder as you get and not a dominant one to build the side around him with the fear of him not blending in with other midfielders. Really no issues for me to see him play alongside the likes of Robbo and thus why I picked them both in my opening two picks.

As for the forward line - I intended to go for Blokhin later in the draft due to the fact he's in fecking Ukraine, but drawing Sjor forced my hand because to me the way you counter a 3-5-2 is use the space between the wing back and CB's and both Blokhin and Robben are elite at that. Reason why I also like my forward line is having Villa there as we won't be relying on crossing so he's the type of player that with his movement can open up spaces for them to attack the box or with his qualities to score a goal himself.

With great passers in midfield the attacking trio for me is set for this draft and really not upgradeable for me, which is the reason why I won't touch it if I go through.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Will reply more later, but couple of things to start with.

Defence - Gerets/Robben flank needs no introduction, but the reason why he's preferred choice to Bergomi is that he's better at showing support in attack and his ability to run up and down the flank. Given that the opposition plays 3-5-2 it's key here so that it allows Robben to run between the lines and break the opposition formation which would allow us to have more openings in front of goal. Bergomi needs no introduction but I probably rate him a bit more as a stopper compared to full back as his rugged play and positional awareness makes him a pretty apt choice to stack up against Suarez or Tostao. Ferrara too is pretty technical from the back and a really nice choice to combat what Tostao/Suarez have to offer.

Midfield part - Robbo was pretty technical player as well and great passer to boot. He wasn't refined as Xavi(well who is?) and not the little magician type to recycle possession, but neither is his role here. It's a direct side which relies on quick transitions and high energy in the middle of the park to turn defence into attack and release our front three with quick interplay or pass into space. Both Cerezo and Robson are great at that. His one two's also allow him to link with Iniesta and gain space which I do not see any problem with them combining when we are on the ball. Iniesta being questioned is something I expected but again from what I've see from him for the Spanish national team he is pretty good at breaking the lines and playing like a high energy, pressing AM in a 4-3-3 - which is a role that he excels and also his dribbling ability underlines how he can gain space and advantage for us in the attacking third.

Iniesta also performed in multiple roles for the NT - winger both sides, AM, CM, alongside not only 3-4 but also 5 midfielders (the 4-6-0) and he linked up pretty well without any performance issues. He's as versatile midfielder as you get and not a dominant one to build the side around him with the fear of him not blending in with other midfielders. Really no issues for me to see him play alongside the likes of Robbo and thus why I picked them both in my opening two picks.

As for the forward line - I intended to go for Blokhin later in the draft due to the fact he's in fecking Ukraine, but drawing Sjor forced my hand because to me the way you counter a 3-5-2 is use the space between the wing back and CB's and both Blokhin and Robben are elite at that. Reason why I also like my forward line is having Villa there as we won't be relying on crossing so he's the type of player that with his movement can open up spaces for them to attack the box or with his qualities to score a goal himself.

With great passers in midfield the attacking trio for me is set for this draft and really not upgradeable for me, which is the reason why I won't touch it if I go through.

Yeah i have no issues with Bergomi other then my personal preference as i like him more as a fullback. With other things i have issues though and considering harms baited me into a debate reckon a no word moby is out of the picture now

He really wasnt, he was a special player and one of the best ever in his role but "pretty technical" he wasnt, specially at all-time level. Okay you say you dont play possession and you want direct football which is fine(makes the Xabi decision even more bizarre) but your midfield is saying otherwise so either you fecked up Robbo or you fecked up Iniesta/Cerezo. Im all for testing players in different systems and setups and id buy Iniesta in a Klopp direct system but as a n10 in a team without a system(which isnt a negative btw, id say mine is the same) i really have trouble picturing it though maybe its just me. This is the guy that played whole his career in a possession heavy teams surrounded with similar-ish players, even in all those spanish teams you mention. Naturally he will always take care of the ball and play the "smart" game so in a battle of 2 teams that dont want possession and prefer to hit the counters, sadly for you is that you will win possession battle.

When you have 2 wide forwards that love to play with the ball you need a "glue" guy in the middle that will "make" them better by sacrificing himself(which might be his strength), someone that will make dummy runs away from the goal to create space, that will move into areas where he isnt dangerous for the goal just to create a space for a wide attacke, your Benzema, Firmino, Mandzukic etc. - David Villa is pretty much the opposite of that.
Speaking of tactically which tactic troubles other, id say there are no rules as we can see it in this current day and age where 3 at the back is kicking everyone's ass, time before that was 433, before that 442 there really is no rule. Some coach whill tweak and add something into his tactic, it will work and that formation will be the next big hit.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Also, new addition to my team is Gianni Rivera, can see him having a good time in the hole. As enigma said, both fullbacks will go up so naturally when they lose possession someone will need to cover - Robbo is more then fine(would impact his attacking input mind you), Iniesta can press after ball lose but surely he wont stay back as protection) so Cerezo should do it as well which will make him sitting on two chairs in the same time and IMO his ass isnt big enough. Even if it was just Rivera id back the attacker.

 

[Himannv]

I think the tactics for both teams are really unimaginative. So you both are set up to either dominate possession or play on the counter eh - inspiring stuff.

Although it seems like a bit of a waste, I do like all the players in Enigma's team, while I only like some of the players in Sjor's team.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I think the tactics for both teams are really unimaginative. So you both are set up to either dominate possession or play on the counter eh - inspiring stuff.

Although it seems like a bit of a waste, I do like all the players in Enigma's team, while I only like some of the players in Sjor's team.

fair though its not everyone is putting essays in terms of tactical OPs, including yourself. Also, if you read it correctly you will see that the team isnt set up to play possession, its just that is capable of playing both ways - something i value quite a bit in a team. Team is set up to play on the counter.

 

[Himannv]

fair though its not everyone is putting essays in terms of tactical OPs, including yourself. Also, if you read it correctly you will see that the team isnt set up to play possession, its just that is capable of playing both ways - something i value quite a bit in a team. Team is set up to play on the counter.

I'm just used to seeing a Sjor Bepo team that is likely to feck with people's minds - like Bielsa's upside down Christmas Tree or some Pep tiki taka monster, or some pressing unit built to give Xavi freedom to dominate. It's all those intriguing ideas and beautiful setups and I like them all so this is really bland in comparison. Point taken regarding the tactics of other teams (mine included). Enigma is like the opposite of that in a sense that he can probably build this team in his sleep and that's what he's done. You both have so much football knowledge and unique insights on players and tactical fits that I feel like I learn a lot from you two. So I'm not saying that I hate your teams because you both suck - I just expect more and consider you both better drafters than an average bloke like me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

What does everyone think is Villa's peak position?

Two well set up teams. Nothing to pick either on player of tactics. Hard to comment in these tight matches!

I'm tempted to give this to Enigma because of player quality of his MF might make a difference.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I'm just used to seeing a Sjor Bepo team that is likely to feck with people's minds - like Bielsa's upside down Christmas Tree or some Pep tiki taka monster, or some pressing unit built to give Xavi freedom to dominate. It's all those intriguing ideas and beautiful setups and I like them all so this is really bland in comparison. Point taken regarding the tactics of other teams (mine included). Enigma is like the opposite of that in a sense that he can probably build this team in his sleep and that's what he's done. You both have so much football knowledge and unique insights on players and tactical fits that I feel like I learn a lot from you two. So I'm not saying that I hate your teams because you both suck - I just expect more and consider you both better drafters than an average bloke like me.

now you taking the piss

Tbf this is also a Sjor Bepo team in the way as its destined to get fecked considering my biggest selling point are my fullbacks of which one is Marcelo

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I really need to watch Rivera more. Somehow I always underestimate him despite his accolades. Don't know why.

 

[Isotope]

What does everyone think is Villa's peak position?

Two well set up teams. Nothing to pick either on player of tactics. Hard to comment in these tight matches!

I'm tempted to give this to Enigma because of player quality of his MF might make a difference.

From my limited knowledge, he's good in two-striker system; and just ok as Messi's sidekick as LF. I tend to agree with Sjor's opinion of Greaves as the better player for Blokhin and Robben.

 

[Himannv]

now you taking the piss

Tbf this is also a Sjor Bepo team in the way as its destined to get fecked considering my biggest selling point are my fullbacks of which one is Marcelo

I like Deschamps in this setup as well. Lovely player to have sitting in front of a defence, while giving you an option to play with more attacking freedom.

 

[Physiocrat]

I like both sides. Rivera is a better choice as a 10 in a 352 than Liedholm (please note I am a fan of the latter, but in a different role). The rest the team is smooth and makes a lot of sense.

I have pretty much the same view of Enigma's. Yes Iniesta looks a bit out of place but I think he's suitably versatile to work very well here. I also don't see Cerezo as being a much less direct player than Xabi Alonso. One possible criticism I would have of the front three isn't the lack of dummy runners, I'm pretty sure Blokhin is more than good enough off the ball, but rather he could do with more of a creator than just goalscorers.

 

[Himannv]

What does everyone think is Villa's peak position?

I prefer him up front. He's just too good a goal poacher to be playing wing forward in my view. I mean, he's the leading goal scorer for Spain and only Di Stefano has scored them at a quicker rate than him.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I like both sides. Rivera is a better choice as a 10 in a 352 than Liedholm (please note I am a fan of the latter, but in a different role). The rest the team is smooth and makes a lot of sense.

I have pretty much the same view of Enigma's. Yes Iniesta looks a bit out of place but I think he's suitably versatile to work very well here. I also don't see Cerezo as being a much less direct player than Xabi Alonso. One possible criticism I would have of the front three isn't the lack of dummy runners, I'm pretty sure Blokhin is more than good enough off the ball, but rather he could do with more of a creator than just goalscorers.

There is more then enough movement that isnt the problem, issue is what type of movement. Both Villa and Blokhin will make runs towards the goal with scoring being on their mind, but a lot of times you need a player to move away from goal, dragging someone deep or wide knowing you wont get the ball or even if you do you will not be dangerous.

 

[Enigma_87]

From my limited knowledge, he's good in two-striker system; and just ok as Messi's sidekick as LF. I tend to agree with Sjor's opinion of Greaves as the better player for Blokhin and Robben.

This is a very wrong depiction of Villa that I’ll explain shortly in a more thorough post, and the reason I chose him ahead of Greaves. He played as a both lone striker LWF and RWF for Valencia in a 4-3-3 and was leading in terms of assists when he was playing as a RWF and his movement was really fantastic at his peak - both to goal and away form goal which I explained in my OP as well. Villa is not a fox in the box type and one of his qualities is exactly off the ball game.

 

[Enigma_87]

I like both sides. Rivera is a better choice as a 10 in a 352 than Liedholm (please note I am a fan of the latter, but in a different role). The rest the team is smooth and makes a lot of sense.

I have pretty much the same view of Enigma's. Yes Iniesta looks a bit out of place but I think he's suitably versatile to work very well here. I also don't see Cerezo as being a much less direct player than Xabi Alonso. One possible criticism I would have of the front three isn't the lack of dummy runners, I'm pretty sure Blokhin is more than good enough off the ball, but rather he could do with more of a creator than just goalscorers.

On the contrary, not only Cerezo is very direct and two way player, he's exactly the type to frustrate a player like Rivera.

Cerezo has a great frame with very long legs that can cover a lot of distance and his physicality is not something Rivera will appreciate very much.


I know it is a bit long of compilation but is worth it. He has fantastic awareness and knows when to make 1-2 large steps and knock the ball off an opponent. His long legs and frame also makes it a lot harder than Alonso to pass through and he can use his physical presence to knock Rivera off the ball.

We aren't really losing much in the passing side either, his range is pretty big and he's also perfectly capable of switching up play and knock off a long pass to one of our forwards. His stamina levels are also incredible and the reason he was putting MoTM performances against Barca's dream team and the great Milan from the early 90's at the 'tender' age of 37-38.

I obviously like Alonso, hence picking him and he's also a great fit, but Cerezo is more complete player in both defensive and physical aspect of the game and much better fit to face someone like Rivera.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Not a fan of Rivera as the No. 10 in a 3-5-2. Completely personal opinion based on what I have seen of him, but I think he is best with 3 players ahead of him. Loved to drop deep and start moves be it while attacking or on the counters and of course loved to dribble for fun past opposition midfields. His through balls into wide forwards were also quite brilliant. The ideal No. 10 in a 4231 with WFs.

Edit: Would have loved to see Tostao as the AM with 2 forwards ahead of him. His best at club level came as AM/SS

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm just used to seeing a Sjor Bepo team that is likely to feck with people's minds - like Bielsa's upside down Christmas Tree or some Pep tiki taka monster, or some pressing unit built to give Xavi freedom to dominate. It's all those intriguing ideas and beautiful setups and I like them all so this is really bland in comparison. Point taken regarding the tactics of other teams (mine included). Enigma is like the opposite of that in a sense that he can probably build this team in his sleep and that's what he's done. You both have so much football knowledge and unique insights on players and tactical fits that I feel like I learn a lot from you two. So I'm not saying that I hate your teams because you both suck - I just expect more and consider you both better drafters than an average bloke like me.

To be fair I didn't have much options to go in a more extreme way in the reinforcement round and really went with what I could make as a like for like replacements in terms of role, but definitely improved on the initial formation that I had, despite in a more boring way

But even if I did have more options looking at the game here still believe that tactically with this type of forwards and midfield base is exactly the medicine that you want to treat an opposition 3-5-2 in both phases of the game, especially with the type of energy players in the middle of the park.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

On team Enigma, Alonso was an absolutely terrible choice in that midfield. Never once has he played as the lone defensive pivot (not counting the Pep maniac Bayern teams). His best always came in a double pivot with a sound defensive partner alongside be it Mascherano/Khedira/Busquets.

Cerezo is a welcome addition. I also love the Robson role here.

 

[Physiocrat]

There is more then enough movement that isnt the problem, issue is what type of movement. Both Villa and Blokhin will make runs towards the goal with scoring being on their mind, but a lot of times you need a player to move away from goal, dragging someone deep or wide knowing you wont get the ball or even if you do you will not be dangerous.

I can see that. I think it is a similar observation to mine about having more of a playmaker in the front three.

 

[Physiocrat]

On team Enigma, Alonso was an absolutely terrible choice in that midfield. Never once has he played as the lone defensive pivot (not counting the Pep maniac Bayern teams). His best always came in a double pivot with a sound defensive partner alongside be it Mascherano/Khedira/Busquets.

Cerezo is a welcome addition. I also love the Robson role here.

Do you not think though Xabi had the defensive awareness to play as a pivot alongside a B2B even if he didn't at his peak?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Do you not think though Xabi had the defensive awareness to play as a pivot alongside a B2B even if he didn't at his peak?

Alongside a defensive B2B like Khedira, sure. With Robson, no. Unless Robson plays a really reserved B2B role. Xabi for me never had the acumen to be a top notch defensive shield in midfield. Great play maker with decent defensive cover, but that was about it. As a pivot in a 4-3-3, he is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yeah i have no issues with Bergomi other then my personal preference as i like him more as a fullback. With other things i have issues though and considering harms baited me into a debate reckon a no word moby is out of the picture now

I do like Bergomi as a full back either but watching him I'd definitely have him as either RCB in a back five or at the heart of the defence. Naturally he's versatille as it gets and can look good as a LB too, but personal preference as a stopper he's at his best and was seriously disappointed that you lads put him in 9th place on the stopper list.

He really wasnt, he was a special player and one of the best ever in his role but "pretty technical" he wasnt, specially at all-time level. Okay you say you dont play possession and you want direct football which is fine(makes the Xabi decision even more bizarre) but your midfield is saying otherwise so either you fecked up Robbo or you fecked up Iniesta/Cerezo. Im all for testing players in different systems and setups and id buy Iniesta in a Klopp direct system but as a n10 in a team without a system(which isnt a negative btw, id say mine is the same) i really have trouble picturing it though maybe its just me. This is the guy that played whole his career in a possession heavy teams surrounded with similar-ish players, even in all those spanish teams you mention. Naturally he will always take care of the ball and play the "smart" game so in a battle of 2 teams that dont want possession and prefer to hit the counters, sadly for you is that you will win possession battle.

Robson one touch play was one of his best traits really he could hit a pass really really well first time and knock one twos to gain ground and space. He has highlighted this in many moves from deep. Apart from that he has the game to shield the ball and recycle possession. No one is asking him to play tiki taka of course so whilst he's not at the technical level of Busquets and Xavi he has the passing and first touch game to blend in the midfield and use his strengths in a high energy, midfield based on switching play and transition. On Cerezo that's a bit odd comment as he excelled in both more possession heavy midfields and quite different in terms of style Samp 4-4-2. Tactically and positionally it really didn't make much difference to his game and probably as individual performances I've seen better from him in that Samp side than at Roma, at both at which he made it to CL finals, won Serie A in its heyday against some fantastic midfielders putting phenomenal performances and was Coppa Italia resident all throughout the 80's and early 90's featuring in 5 finals(winning 4).

What Cerezo does much better than Alonso is cutting up passing lanes and ability to suffocate a #10 and physically impose on him. Alonso has of course his own benefits but neither of the three midfielders have overlapping roles or inability to play together within their designated roles. They are different players naturally but in a way that is why it completes each others game and all three of them have proven to be very versatile and able to adjust and adapt to different roles and formations.

When you have 2 wide forwards that love to play with the ball you need a "glue" guy in the middle that will "make" them better by sacrificing himself(which might be his strength), someone that will make dummy runs away from the goal to create space, that will move into areas where he isnt dangerous for the goal just to create a space for a wide attacke, your Benzema, Firmino, Mandzukic etc. - David Villa is pretty much the opposite of that.
Speaking of tactically which tactic troubles other, id say there are no rules as we can see it in this current day and age where 3 at the back is kicking everyone's ass, time before that was 433, before that 442 there really is no rule. Some coach whill tweak and add something into his tactic, it will work and that formation will be the next big hit.

Absolutely disagree with that. Villa played all around the attack for Valencia at his peak or for Spain. He definitely loved to attack the box and finish off chances - naturally that's his game, but he was never selfish guy. His movement is exactly what made him one of the deadliest strikers in the 00's. He was never limited to being a CF, he drifted wide, made space for his colleagues and drifted away from goal and to the wings to create space. I mean he did it much much more often than Greaves from what I've seen from both and there's absolutely nothing that would suggest someone like Mandzukic would be a better fit. He was never as mobile as Villa, had his brain or energy around the box.

This is the guy who lead the assist table in La Liga in 06/07 scoring as much as creating for others:

It's really odd to sell Villa's movement at his prime as he was pretty much everywhere for Valencia. Start off top, confusing defenders moving to the wing, drop back for a quick one touch play, make a dummy run in space and so forth. He's not a playmaker type but had a very adapt quick passing game and great brain and movement which made him a nightmare to mark.

Even past his prime at Atletico he did this:
dropping back in his own half, participating twice in the build up, making dummy run to the flank and then straight to the box and scoring a fantastic goal, all in the same time

In 2010 WC his heatmap was all over the place. He created a ton for Torres both with his movement and releasing passes or quick one twos. Occupied both flanks and did exactly what you said running away from the box making space for him.

On top of that Villa was never the ball hungry player to always get a touch or two or always go on a run or on a dribble(averaged less than dribble per game). So apart from being inferior forwards I don't really see what the suggested could do better than Villa at his peak.

 

[Gio]

Interesting game this one. I liked Alonso’s ability to pick out the wide attackers but can see the rationale for Cerezo up against Rivera. I’m not feeling the Robson/Iniesta partnership, just come from very opposing ends of the midfield spectrum. It’s fine and packs a lot of individual quality, but personally not seeing great synergies. For Sjor Rivera is a strong reinforcement and looks at home there with those pitch-stretching wing backs ahead of a solid midfield unit. Probably goals in this game as I think both attacks are geared up to cause problems - between Enigma’s pace and Sjor’s nimble intelligence - in their opposing defences.

On team Enigma, Alonso was an absolutely terrible choice in that midfield. Never once has he played as the lone defensive pivot (not counting the Pep maniac Bayern teams). His best always came in a double pivot with a sound defensive partner alongside be it Mascherano/Khedira/Busquets.

To defend the Alonso pick somewhat, I think those midfield structures were more about the manager’s overall tactical approach (I.e 4231 merchants like Benitez or Mourinho), as opposed to a direct accommodation of what Alonso could or could not do. Like any DLP you’d want to give them some muscle to help them out or, alternatively, just fully embrace a ball-retention policy. And I think there are elements of Khedira’s game - the box-to-box vertical style - that are not dissimilar to Robson.

 

[Isotope]

Was he consistently top of assist chart, or just for that season?

Edit: looked at Wiki for La Liga season, it's only that 06-07 he's on top 10 assist as striker. His goal rate with Valencia is pretty impressive though.

 

[Jim Beam]

Strange game to judge, but I blame Edgar as during reinforcements you could only make sideway moves in a way and the teams look very much the same as in the 1st round.

Actually I had to look what was different in Sjor from the 1st round, while enigma did make brilliant individual picks, but somehow doesn't look like that team is greater then the sum of its parts. It looks like half of team is playing in 2nd or 3rd gear while others in the 5th or at full speed (in a lack of better description). I do think those left and right flanks will put enormous pressure on bepo side CB's, but also bepo wingbacks having a great game drawing Cerezo at times and forcing Robson to drop deeper making it more compact (as otherwise Rivera would have to much space to impact the game). In short, enigma has more individual quality, but like bepo's team slightly more and can see it functioning as a collective a bit better.

Will have to think a bit more, but it's close.

 

[Jim Beam]

Ah, now I see @Himannv posts. Agree with it as it does look like something is missing from both teams that will tickle your imagination more.

It is not meant to be a criticism per se, as (same as him) I blame those high standards you both set up!*

*and Edgar mindfecking everyone

 

[General_Elegancia]

I really need to watch Rivera more. Somehow I always underestimate him despite his accolades. Don't know why.

He is the mix of Xavi and Iniesta.He can controlled the pitch and passed on the near level of Xavi,great dribbler similar style's to Iniesta,has a great vision and played for the team.
He had some big-egos in himself but not a big problem.
He can played like classic10 but should be 3 front-men in front of him.He like to drop deep to get the ball sometimes even in deep-lying playmaker position.
IMHO he is one of the best passers ever,underrated in term of speed(he was fast as hell in 60s) and only 4 playmakers(pure10) that I think better than him are Maradona,Platini ,Zico and Zidane.

If he played in 2half of Finale70,I'm sure that Italy would give Brazil some hard-times(not one-trick pony Mazzola).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And I think there are elements of Khedira’s game - the box-to-box vertical style - that are not dissimilar to Robson.

It then should not be depicted as a 4-3-3 though. It's understandable why the 4-3-3 looks more tempting than the below formation, but that is just trying to get the best of both worlds rather than accurate depiction of the team.

-----------Iniesta-----------
------Xabi-----Robson---

A moot point now anyways, but was surprised with the landslide victory in the first game. Schiaffino and Figo would have run circles round Alonso.

 

[Enigma_87]

Good game @Šjor Bepo !Fresh idea as always and not really flaw in your tactics hence couldn't really criticize much. Loved that Rivera pick.

 

[harms]

I didn’t expect such disparity in votes, interesting.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

i blame @Zlatan 7 , would have been a lovely reversed Zona Mista if he didnt block Ribery, absolute muppet. Good luck next @Enigma_87